A student just accused me of being "Culturally insensitive"

[Coventina]

Our school allows a week of bereavement absences with no penalty, for the death of an immediate family member.

A student reported her aunt had died. As is my usual policy, (even though an aunt is not an immediate family member), I told her she would not be penalized if she provided a flyer or some other proof of the services.

She said I was being culturally insensitive. (She did not provide any explanation in her email as to why this was so).

I consider myself a pretty well-educated person on various cultures and religions, and I don't know of a single one that keeps funeral services a secret. Sometimes a service is private to ATTEND, but death is a matter of public record.

How am I being culturally insensitive?

I thought I was being generous, in extending the policy to the loss of an aunt.

[greenjar_01]

1. Open letter coming soon!

Please decolonize your attendance policy!

[TheBlackAdder]

172. Every other school absence requires paperwork or a parental note. Old Term: No Doc, No Problem

.

That's an old computer term meaning if you don't have the dump or diagnostic proof, it can't be researched.

Therefore, if you complain about an error, and there isn't detailed information as to what was done before the problem happened and a screenprint of the error messages, or a dump isn't provided, there is little chance it can be debugged. Without doc, you can't send in supporting information to the software vendor either.

No Doc, No Problem

.

[Throck]

2. Per chance is this a teen?

If so I wouldn't take it as personal. It's their mission in life to push the buttons of the adults. Shock factor fueled by inexperienced raw emotions.

[dalton99a]

3. Sometimes the same family member dies twice

[Coventina]

7. Yes, I get a flock of dead grandmothers almost every semester.

Sometimes I wonder.
Probably wrong, but sometimes I wonder if there are any grandmothers left in the country.

on edit: clarity

[PatSeg]

10. Yes, isn't it amazing

how many grandparents one person can have? Maybe some of them die and come back to life a few times.

[lostnfound]

151. Up to 8, actually. Divorced kids, parents both remarry when kids are young, totally possible,

And yes I do know people who are close to their step-grandchildren to matter.

[PatSeg]

154. Oh yes, it is entirely possible

Though I've had some young employees who have used the dead grandparent excuse a little too often.

[treestar]

69. Remember MASH

when Col. realized Cpl. Klinger's family was dying multiple times and getting pregnant multiple times?

[Tetrachloride]

4. 3 questions:

Age of student ?

Did the student ask for leniency regarding coursework or attendance in the first contact?

Was the aunt living in the same city ?

[Coventina]

5. My answers:

I don't know her exact age, but this is college.

Yes, she wanted an excused absence.

I don't know if the aunt was living here or out of town.

[Tetrachloride]

14. I conclude that your request was more than reasonable

[SheltieLover]

6. Moot point

Not an immediate family member. I'd deny the request, given the student's response to your very lenient request.

[Hortensis]

19. Immediate is a real, individual thing, in addition to a bureaucratic definition.

Perhaps the aunt raised her.

But in any case, the use of that phrase grabs attention. Just what is that accusation about?

I have no experience in this kind of thing. But the description would make me want to be careful with this one, adhering to both the rules and their intent -- assuming that the written documentation could end up part of a formal and/or publicized complaint.

[Dorian Gray]

83. I don't know

Some Aunts are like second mothers. Some extended families live together. I would have taken the excuse for one week of missed classes as long as the student made an effort to make up missed work shortly afterward. I don't know that I would have asked for proof. I would extend my condolences, ask how much time she needed. If it was an unreasonable amount, say that, then encourage her to grieve as she needs and come back stronger in class.

Some teachers are sticklers for strict policy. That was never my way as a teacher, though. I was firm in the classroom. I certainly failed kids who never turned in work. But if someone needed an extension and to miss classes for a death or another issue, I don't think I ever really questioned it.

[Maru Kitteh]

8. It's increasingly common not to have any service, especially in the age of CV19

It also could be that the student is thinking you are fishing for religious affiliation/information?

That’s all I can come up with.

Perhaps instead of asking for proof of services, you could ask for evidence of the date of death.

[Lars39]

11. I had a uncle die, cremated, no service, and no obituary.

And that was before covid. Things are a bit weird now.

[Wingus Dingus]

26. Yikes. That's kinda sad.

[Lars39]

31. I know.

For some reason that’s just the way he wanted it handled.

[Jedi Guy]

9. Sounds to me like she got caught out in a lie and is salty about it.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for proof that a family member has shuffled off this mortal coil. When my grandfather died six years ago, my employer gave me the three bereavement days mandated in my contract, but I had to provide a link to the obituary, which named me as surviving kin. I didn't consider that to be insensitive or insulting at all.

Odds are she didn't expect you (or anyone else) would ask for proof that she was telling the truth, so she fell back on the "culturally insensitive" remark in order to dodge the request for proof. If I were in your shoes, I'd ask her to explain exactly how that request is culturally insensitive, and then reiterate that the policy is that proof must be provided.

TL;DR: She fibbed, then fibbed again because she's taking you for a ride.

[BlackSkimmer]

22. This.

Student is trying it on lol.

[BradAllison]

104. That's why an administrator should handle these requests.

These sort of things eventually trickle down to "the teacher gave me a bad grade because she's mean".

[Behind the Aegis]

12. You didn't ask her to wheel in the body?

Then, I don't see the problem! Given you are extending the policy to accommodate her, then she should respond with the request you made. If she doesn't, don't excuse her.

[ananda]

13. In my experience, kids will try to scam you on attendance.

So requiring proof is absolutely essential.

[Lucid Dreamer]

15. What field to you teach?

>How am I being culturally insensitive?
>I thought I was being generous, in extending the policy to the loss of an aunt.

Is in-class performance necessary for completion?

I was in math-science-engineering and in many classes attendance wasn't necessary to learning.
In some other classes, presence in labs or demos was required.

Just wondering.

And calling you "culturally insensitive" sounds like a bunch of manipulative code-words that don't merit response.

My opinion... I could be wrong.

[Coventina]

17. Art History

Yes, in-class participation is a big part of their grade.

A few absences wouldn't be a big deal, but a lot of absences would make a big impact.

[Dorian Gray]

87. What is this student's history?

Has she missed a lot up until this point? Or is this unusual?

It seems as though you suspect her of lying to you about the death. If I had to take time off to attend a funeral and was asked to provide proof of death, I might be irritated too. (Though I wouldn't think it was cultural insensitivity. I'd think the person asking didn't trust me.) But I also would never lie about something like this, so I'd be coming from that POV.

[Coventina]

91. It's early in the semester, she hadn't missed any classes.

I don't suspect her of lying, actually. (Until her protest about it, and calling it culturally insensitive, now I'm wondering).

This is the policy I've had since I started teaching in 2006 and it's never been an issue prior to this point. And, it's always been tied directly to the school policy for excused absences.

I've had many students experience tragedies and I've always supported them through it. They've never once expressed any negative reaction to supplying the documentation.

[Dorian Gray]

95. It's probably good that you reached out to someone

to help guide the conversation, bc you don't want it to get further out of hand.

The cultural insensitivity is a head scratcher. I could see her thinking you're being a bit persnickety about it. That I would understand. But if they had an obit handy, then it would be easy enough to provide proof.

What is the cultural background of this student? I'm curious now, as maybe there is a culture that doesn't believe in death announcements. Or maybe she is just fibbing, got caught in a fib and panicked.

[Coventina]

98. Yes, actually the Diversity Coordinator was just in my office after getting my email

She doesn't understand the cultural accusation either, but advised against asking about it.

She said just stick to the school policy and explain it's there to support her (giving her an excused absence(s)) and not meant to be punitive.

[Act_of_Reparation]

16. I mean, you could ask *her*

She may be bullshitting you, but she may not. No way to tell with what was provided.

[Coventina]

18. I've contacted our diversity coordinator and am awaiting her response

before taking further action.

I do want to ask the student how asking for proof of services is culturally insensitive, but I'll wait until the expert weighs in.

[boston bean]

20. Maybe her culture doesn't believe in announcements.

But on serious note, announcements do cost money.

[alphafemale]

21. Is her name Klinger by any chance?

A fan of the Toledo Mud Hens?

[BlackSkimmer]

23. Yes, poor Klinger couldn't even get out for the great Toledo scarlet fever outbreak!

[treestar]

71. :)

Yep! Half the family died, half the family pregnant!

[BradAllison]

106. It was Epstein's mom n/m

[Wingus Dingus]

24. My father-in-law died when my son was in college--

we traveled out of state to make arrangements and attend the service, were gone about 10 days--and I don't remember him having to show any sort of proof about it beyond letting them know he wasn't going to be in class because of the death and funeral. They let him make up tests and still got his assignments done, long-distance. It wasn't a big deal. But he wasn't asking for any special status or favors, either. He took whatever "penalty" came with the absence.

[Lucid Dreamer]

148. Bingo! THIS is the way it should be handled [by the student].

Wingus Dingus>
>But he wasn't asking for any special status or favors, either.
>He took whatever "penalty" came with the absence.

[alphafemale]

25. She's trying to con you you and make you feel bad for bogus reasons

What culture is this....exactly?

She'll try to play this same game if she legitimately fails the class too.

Watch.

[BlackSkimmer]

50. This.

Agree completely.

[Jedi Guy]

63. Winner winner chicken dinner. Bang on the money. N/T

[orleans]

27. not every family holds a "service" or has a "flyer" or puts an obit in

the paper. (including my family)

also, you don't know what kind of relationship she had with her aunt (could have been like a sister or a mother)

[Coventina]

28. All that is true. But where does "culture" come into it?

How am I being culturally insensitive?

An individual family does not a culture make.

She could have said I was being insensitive to her individual needs, but she didn't say that.

[kcr]

133. That's the very definition of culture.

I know that, and I don't even teach college. Glad I never had you as an instructor. Lack of religion does not mean lack of culture.

[Piasladic]

140. that's harsh

I'm glad you never had them as an instructor either. I know how hard it is when a student accuses you of being something you are not. I'd be brooding about it for years. I completely understand Coventina's point of view, and I am with them.

[yardwork]

157. College instructors have difficult jobs.

Young people bring a lot of issues into the classroom with them, and instructors have to navigate a lot of hurdles. After reading Coventina's posts on DU for many years, I feel sure that she is an excellent, compassionate, and probably inspiring instructor.

It sounds like she's handling this situation well. I think this student is fortunate to have her as a teacher.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

29. It's shitty to ask for proof.

[Coventina]

30. Why?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

32. It puts another chore on a grieving person.

[Coventina]

35. Give me a break. If that's your idea of a "chore" then you must have a really charmed life.

I nursed my mother through her terminal illness for 10 years, and then coordinated her services and burial, all while also holding down a full-time job which gave me 3 days of bereavement leave. (Which I also had to provide proof for).

Supplying the required documentation for my bereavement leave was not even an event that sticks out in my memory of that time, it was so insignificant.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

36. Why do you require it?

[Coventina]

39. Because attendance is required for my classes, it is part of their grade.

If they want an excused absence they need to have proof:

Jury summons
Subpoena for court appearance
School event (mostly pertaining to athletes traveling to a game or match)
Death of a family member
Religious observance

All of the above require documented proof.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

41. So being sick isn't an excused absence?

[Coventina]

42. No. And that's school policy, not mine. n/t

[iemanja]

64. that's harsh

[Coventina]

74. It may seem so but when you consider the ramifications

of college degrees, it makes more sense.

When I report the grades that students have earned at the end of the semester, I am verifying that those students are college-educated in that subject (or not).

What happens if students are just passed along, no matter what (as is what happens often in elementary and high schools)?

If these students are coming out of college with degrees that weren't truly earned, are we doing them, and their future employees or customers any favors?

Alongside that, students with disabilities: physical, mental, emotional, etc. are given accommodations to help them succeed in courses should they need it. So, you can earn a college degree with severe health challenges that might otherwise hold you back. You just can't randomly miss lots of your education and still earn a college degree.

[iemanja]

77. When I taught college

I measured their learning by performance on tests and papers, not attendance.
The fact is, they weren't going to do well if they didn't attended classes, but I had no requirement. I didn't have a problem with students not coming either.

[Coventina]

82. I do a lot of hands-on activities and discussions that students need to be present to

participate in.

It's all part of the strategy of "active learning" that the school is really big on promoting.
Admin says educational research says it's more effective and meaningful for the students.
They've been giving us professional development dollars to develop these strategies, so I've been incorporating these methods and the students seem to really like them.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

170. I teach high school and have taught college.

Isn't that a problem with grade inflation? If a kid can get an A in your class without coming to all the meetings, why did they need to be there. They still know the information you wanted them to know. If it's a problem with students just being passed on, can't professors just say they were there and pass them on?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

72. That's a gross policy.

Do you have to show up if you're sick? Not blaming you for the policy, just wondering if it applies to you, too.

[Coventina]

75. Please see my post #74 n/t

[Ms. Toad]

147. Not even for COVID?

Our policy is that faculty has to record the lecture any time students are absent for reasons related to COVID, and that faculty is not allowed to penalize them as long as they watch the lecture.

Any other policy encourages people with symptoms of COVID (or actual COVID) to come to school.

[W_HAMILTON]

76. I'm in my 40s and still have nightmares about missing classes...

...and failing due to missing too many classes -- even though I graduated at the top of my class with a 4.0 GPA.

With as many problems as life can throw at you, why make attendance mandatory if the student is doing well enough in your class?

And I agree with the others that have said you should just let it slide when it comes to requiring "proof of death" to get an excused absence. Sheesh. I mean, even if the person is lying, it's what -- one or two classes? And how many times a semester can such a lie be used? If missing your classes is so vital to their grade -- aside from your required mandatory attendance -- it should show up in their actual grades; and if not, and they are able to miss class and still do well, it means they are learning regardless, so, why punish them?

[Coventina]

85. please see my post #82 n/t

[Hekate]

90. At one time in my life I worked in Personnel. Multiple dead grandmas is something that can...

… make the recipient of the stories cynical. I was fortunate to not get too much of that, but the head of the department — that man was cynical.

And yes, every place I ever worked had requirements for proving the reason for your absence past a certain point.

Being a student is, in a sense, a job. It’s practice for adulthood, if you will.

[BlackSkimmer]

57. When my mother died, I was the executor of her estate.

You want to talk about chores? I ended up carrying a Manila envelope full of death certificates around because I had to provide one to every single Tom, Dick, and Harry about every damn thing imaginable.

Carried one with me when I took her ashes back to Wales to scatter them. Had to show the death certificate and the ashes to TSA and customs.

Death is no fun at all, and it’s full of “chores.”

[Buckeye_Democrat]

84. The biggest chore for me, after my parents died, was...

... notifying their friends about it. And then providing the "entertainment" for them at the funeral home and reception.

It wasn't really entertainment for them, but I felt like I couldn't fully mourn my own parents' deaths until after all that craziness was done.

It didn't help matters that I disliked so many of the friends and associates of my parents. One guy that my father knew actually went into an anti-liberal tirade to me at the funeral, then said he was proud to be an old friend of my father who was "obviously" a good Republican. (My father never discussed politics with anyone outside his immediate family, and he always voted Democratic and bemoaned the election of a Republican.)

[BlackSkimmer]

96. God, I'd forgotten about that. My mom was 90 and her friends thought she was healthy.

She told no one she’d been diagnosed with leukemia. She’d played bridge the week before with her weekly bridge group.

I had to sit there with her phone list and call everyone. It was horrendous, but I think shock carried me through. That and whisky.

Mom wanted no service, so I was saved that. But she was very social and her friends had several at her tennis club….asking me to be there. I just couldn’t do it. I’m not sociable at all, and it just wasn’t something I was up to, though I was touched by their love for her.

It’s a bitch, ain’t it?

[Buckeye_Democrat]

107. Ugh, it was awful.

Those kinds of funerals were part of my parents' culture, or I wouldn't have done it.

At least I had some help from an older brother, although he's legally blind. But he was able to talk to some of the old friends over the phone when I didn't feel up to doing it. Plus he knew some of them much more than I did.

Mom handled most of that business when Dad died, but she got some comfort from doing it.

Me and my brother both agreed, after our mother passed away, that we would've preferred to have a funeral that was a secret family-only affair until after it was over. Then announce the death to non-family via obituary notices and phone calls when OUR grieving was more settled.

Sorry that you went through a similar experience.

[BlackSkimmer]

125. Thanks.

Your post made me feel better somehow. I felt so alone during that time. My younger sister completely disappeared. I’d expected that, but it still hurt.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

130. So many "friends" don't REALLY know...

... our close family members.

Me and my brother were later kicking ourselves for handling it according to "tradition".

Your mother didn't even tell them about her leukemia. So I'm glad that you didn't force yourself, during that difficult period, to comply with their wishes. You did the right thing.

[BlackSkimmer]

132. I just couldn't. Felt guilt afterwards, but then, as you said, I know I did what she wanted.

Sigh. Death is part of life, but it’s very hard to get a grip on the overwhelming loss of it all.

Don’t kick yourselves, but damn that must have been hard for you.

I read today about the police officer’s wife today…the one in NY. They had an argument that day and she didn’t let him drive her to work. She’s shattered about that last argument.

Makes ya think.

[RobinA]

165. I Got Hit

over the head with this when my father died. I'm thinking, Wait, my father just died and now I have to call everybody and ANNOUNCE it???

[Meowmee]

86. Agree

I never do and will not burden a grieving person. In almost 30 years of teaching I have never had anybody lie to me about the death of a family member or even suspected it with maybe one exception- but you know what if it happens once that’s better than causing more pain to someone who is actually grieving.

[Piasladic]

142. unlikely

I've actually had students (college) forge sick notes. I don't even ask for them, yet soooo many grandparents die.

When my husband's mother died, it was awful. I was in Peace Corps with him, and yeah they needed proof for us to go to the funeral.

[Meowmee]

144. My preference

I prefer to be humane and kind over suspecting people all are all lying about a death in family, it has worked for me and I will continue. This biz of policing every move, every absence and the numerous documentation's over things like this is part of what is wrong in many societies imo. My school fortunately does not require proof of deaths tg.

[Piasladic]

145. My college demands I report absences (and types) of because of financial aid.

Most of my students have some kind of Pell grants etc. and if they do not attend at least a certain number of days in the course (usually, but depends on the aid), students have to repay the money even if they ace the course. Admins are rather rabid about our keeping accurate track.

[Meowmee]

168. We record them also for an initial period and aid is based on it but we are

not required to say what absences are etc. and staff are almost never backed by admin in any circumstances anyway. Allowing absences is at our discretion, students can be deregistered for too many. In regards to family deaths almost no one asked for any extra leave for that and there is no policy about that. Some asked for extra time to complete assignments as I recall.

When my mother died in my last semester of grad school I took off 2-3 weeks, I told them what was happening, I was in the hospital with her. The program director called, said not to worry about it and offered to help with any help needed. No one asked me to prove my mother was dying in a coma in hospital or to prove that she had died or for proof of her funeral. I find that unbelievable. Then we had a break. When I returned one professor suggested I take the semester off to fully recover, but I said I would never finish if I did that. Everyone was very kind to me.

[demmiblue]

92. +1

[BradAllison]

111. Coulda timed your watch to this.

Last edited Fri Jan 28, 2022, 08:06 PM - Edit history (1)

[Thtwudbeme]

124. Yep

same thing I thought.

[Quixote1818]

127. I fall on this side as well. I have employees who have said someone died

I didn't always believe them but never in a million years would I ask them for proof, which suggests you are saying they are lying. It's better to let a few liars get away with an extra day off than question the integrity of someone who is being honest in a time of grief.

[NickB79]

137. That's standard policy at a LOT of jobs

At my factory, half the plant would be out every month with a dead relative if we didn't require proof for an excused absence. We're Teamsters; we'll screw over management and HR every chance we get to get a free day off

This being required in college is a good introduction to how the real world operates, IMO.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

139. It's a shitty policy in employment too.

[NickB79]

146. I'm not joking; it would be abused here, badly

Without some kind of proof.

It's a shitty policy, because there are a lot of shittier people out there who would lie through their teeth.

[Ms. Toad]

33. In our faith community, even before COVID, we often had celebrations of life

which were held months after the death (or occasionally before).

So asking for a flyer or proof of "services" varies considerably at least by religious affiliation - and there might not be proof of "services" in the time frame you need to document.

So it's not a matter of secrecy - but practices which don't conform to the specific request you made related to "services."

In my case, I just would have explained that to you, rather than get all huffy about it.

Unless the bereavement leave is related to being able to attend services, maybe broaden your request to anything that would establish their death (death certificate, obituary, program from services, etc., email from a relative (although that is more prone to abuse))

[Coventina]

43. I get what you are saying, but she said her aunt had just died, and she needed to attend services.

So, it isn't a delayed celebration.

[Ms. Toad]

45. I don't think that was part of the OP.

That's a different issue.

I read it as her asking for bereavement leave because her aunt died (without an explanation of why she needed the time) - to which you responded by asking for proof of services.

[Coventina]

46. Apologies. You are correct, I didn't provide that info. n/t

[Ms. Toad]

58. No problem - but it seemed that several of us were puzzled

about the services-specific question you asked.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

34. I wish she wasn't insensitive to your school's culture...

... which asks for evidence in these matters, but cultural insensitivity is more commonplace now.

[Happy Hoosier]

37. It's a tough situation.

On the one hand, you don't wanna be a doormat.

OTOH, it always seems crass asking for physical evidence of the death of a loved one.

Good luck!

[Coventina]

44. Businesses and the government require it all the time.

[BlackSkimmer]

53. Airlines certainly do.

You did nothing wrong, and certainly not “culturally insensitive. I mean, wtf?

[Happy Hoosier]

60. I've never been asked for proof by an employer personally...

Don't get me wrong.... I understand the reasoning. It STILL seems crass to me.

[Coventina]

68. We might be talking at cross purposes here.

If your employer didn't have specific "bereavement leave" but just "personal time" then it really doesn't matter to them. You're just taking the personal time they've offered for whatever. The school I work for right now does that, as does my husband's current employer.

However, if you are taking it out of a specific pot of benefit titled "bereavement leave" then that's where they would require it.

[kcr]

134. Neither have I

Nor from any school. It is crass.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

38. Could be Latino or any south-American where they view Aunts as "Nuclear" family.

I'd agree with the student; Asking for "Proof" of death is incredibly, utterly insensitive at best and culturally racist/deaf/blind at worst.

[Coventina]

40. What about employers that require it? I've never had a job that didn't. N/T

[Hellbound Hellhound]

47. What about them? "Employers" don't get to enforce culture.

Simple fact is, if her culture dictates that she be there for an observance, the employer doesn't have the right to interfere. That's not a callout on you, as you're just the messenger, but she'd have a very prominent civil suit on her hands if you were to deny her the right to grievances, with or without proof of death.

That said, if she wanted to, she could probably tag you or your university for racism/cultural harassment or a similar charge. A university, at least if publicly funded, has no right or business requiring proof of death for a bereavement claim. If they (or you) try to enforce it, that person's likely going to get a free ride for the rest of their education, if they have a half-decent lawyer going to bat for them as they should.

Just as an addendum: In my 25 years in the workforce, I've never had to provide documentation for any bereavement or anything similar, working in the harshest and meanest circumstances that I could possibly imagine. Read: "3 months notice" to take a day off kind of environment. Never once had to submit "Proof of death" of anything.

[Wingus Dingus]

51. This doesn't sound right at all.

[Coventina]

52. If the employer is paying them to be absent, they absolutely can

Unpaid leave is another issue.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

56. But you're a school, not an employer. You're paid by these kids, not the other way around.

They're your employers. They pay you for a service, and if they're not there for the service you provide, so be it; That's a choice or a responsibility they accept, even in the case of bereavement. But you're getting paid, whether they're there or not.

I've never been a fan of attendance-based grading. The student has already paid you for your service and you get paid whether they're there or not, it's none of your business. They want to throw $40k at the university but never go to classes? Why should you care, if they can genuinely pull good grades out of it?

The only reason to dock students grades/marks for attendance is because the teacher wants to hear themselves talk, and they want an audience. If they can pull a 4.0 without an instructor, let them. Likewise, if they need to take a few days for bereavement, let them. The ONLY person they're hurting is themselves, and possibly the pride of the instructor.

[Coventina]

62. "I paid my fee so I get a B" is your position?

How am I doing students any good if I'm not teaching them?

That's not doing them a service.

Sounds like you are anti-education.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

70. If your Art History class includes attendance...

... as part of the grade, then that's that.

If the course description mentions it, then I wouldn't sweat it.

When I attended college long ago, there were some classes that I repeatedly skipped because the textbook was all that I needed to ace the tests.

If a class mentioned that attendance was part of the grade, I made sure that I was there.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

88. I'm pro-Education, anti-bullshit.

If the student knows what your subject matter teaches, you're superfluous and unnecessary. Their presence in your course is meaningless, except to you.

If a student can ace your class with or without attending, they're paying you quite literally for doing nothing. If they can't, and they don't show up, they'll fail regardless of attendance. Those that need to learn, learn; Those that don't or won't, won't.

Attendance requirements are pure ego-stroking of insecure teachers, no more or less.

[Coventina]

93. You're adorable.

I'll bet you pulled yourself up by your own bootstraps!

[Hellbound Hellhound]

100. I attended classes like the one you describe.

I pulled 4.0s in every class BUT those classes, said non-perfect grades based solely on attendance.

Because of that, I gave up on my dream of teaching and instead focused on becoming an administrator. I now penalize teachers who insist on attendance policies, and fought heavily against said policies in my alma mater and have successfully aided in abolishing them as obsolete. In a way, I suppose you could say I "Pulled myself up by the bootstraps".


Attendance policies are purely teacher ego-strokes.

[Coventina]

101. Oh, I see, this is all about your vendetta against teachers.

You are just a delight!

[Hellbound Hellhound]

103. You asked for input, I just gave it.

I do have a vendetta; The scholastic system is broken. There's a constant refrain that teachers and schools across America simply can't compete with those overseas, a refrain that can't be denied. Sadly, our current educational systems are broken and we need to fix them. The status quo isn't working.

If you don't want the dialogue re. our failing educators and educational system, don't ask for the dialogue.

[Coventina]

105. I asked about cultural insensitivity. You haven't addressed that at all.

But, continue to tell me what a horrible person I am, if it makes you feel better.
I am here to please!

[Hellbound Hellhound]

109. I've given you everything I can about cultural insensitivity.

Long story short, it's not the business of the school to police students' cultural or religious rites. "Prove it" is fundamentally a violation both culturally and religiously; Some religions or beliefs don't give obits or services, no fliers or general notices. Whether or not the school believes the person in question is irrelevant and largely not their business, certainly not the business of busybody teachers who want to inflate their self-worth.

The only ones who lose from a student missing class are the student, and the teachers' ego.

[BradAllison]

115. Someone probably abused the honor system, and they had to go this way.

Guess what, sometimes the students are the assholes, and they ruin it for everyone else.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

118. I'll agree with the thought that students can be the assholes.

Regardless, if a student can/does learn without the teachers' input, AKA they know the material, can test for the material, can write and understand the material critically, REGARDLESS of their presence, they shouldn't be penalized, especially if they're spending tens of thousands of dollars every few months for the privilege.

Let me ask this; In what way is a student not showing up harming any other student? You say "They ruin it for everyone else"; In what way, if any, is an absent student detracting from the experience of other students?

[BradAllison]

135. So the teacher's teaching is completely irrelevant? In a history class?

The "ruining it for everyone else" relates specifically to the context of this thread and of taking people at their word as far as honesty about why one is missing the classes.

Beyond that, one of the most enjoyable things about college is discussion in the classroom between the students.

But thanks for keeping up, and also letting us know what your think about teachers.

[AZLD4Candidate]

174. You don't know anything about teaching overseas. After teaching and living in four Asian countries

I could tell you how off base you truly are.

[AZLD4Candidate]

178. Our failing educators? Please enlighten me on that sideswipe comment, Administrator!

I'd love to hear how educators are failing. . .or are you from the Arne Duncan school of thought, where people believe we get our educators from the bottom of the barrel?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10024338994

I'll give you a chance to pull out of the skid, since you've ignored all my other responses to your completely inane drivel.

[Ms. Toad]

149. I have an attendance policy - and it has nothing to do with stroking my ego.

First - it is required by one of the accrediting agencies for the school, so neither I, nor the school, can waive it.

Second - the class is a skills class which students can't just get by reading about it.

I do have generous make-up policies - I hold weekly interactive skills sessions. Students can attend 4 hours of those (2 sessions) and make up for any 3 hour class they missed - regardless of the content of the class. The reason for that has nothing to do with ego. My class is peparation for a licensing exam and the data I have collected over nearly a decade shows a strong correlation (at all GPA levels) between these interactive skills sessions and passing the licensing exam. So I don't care which format they attend - attending an interactive session (class or separate) improves their chances of being licensed.

[Jedi Guy]

80. If a class has attendance as part of the final grade, that's almost always in the syllabus.

So this student was almost certainly made aware of that policy when she started the class, or at the very least the information was presented to her. If she failed to read the syllabus, that's on her, not the instructor. Most of my professors did a quick skim of the syllabi on the first day of classes anyway, just to hit the important points, such as project/essay due dates, exam dates... or attendance being a part of the final grade.

If that wasn't palatable to the student, most universities allow for students to drop one class and choose another within the first few weeks of the semester. If that date has passed, the student is locked into the class. When I was in university, you had two options at that point: you could either slug it out until the end of the semester even though you hated the class/professor, or withdraw from the class and not choose another (naturally, any tuition you'd paid for that class was not refunded).

Seems to me that this student did none of those things, so she's stuck. I also strongly suspect that her aunt is fine (if she ever existed in the first place) and the student simply wanted a few days off from class. She was caught off-guard when Coventina reminded her of the attendance policy as it regards bereavement, blurted out "cultural insensitivity" in an attempt to keep her fib from imploding, and now here we are.

Asking for something like an obituary or notice from the funeral home as proof is by no means offensive, insensitive, or overly burdensome. Every job I've ever held required that or similar for paid bereavement days, so it's not as if this is some wildly unheard-of request.

PS: The attitude of "the kids are your employers" is a few small steps away from "I paid my tuition so you owe me a passing grade." The university is Coventina's employer, and yes, the kids paid for a service. However, by doing so they agreed to be bound by certain conditions, such as attendance policies in certain classes or a student code of conduct. Just because you're paying for a service doesn't mean you get to have everything your way. The customer is not, in fact, always right.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

94. "almost always" is the rub.

Most colleges have electives that you MUST take. You don't have a choice; In order to complete your degree, you MUST take electives that the average student wants nothing to do with, but absolutely MUST take, syllabus or course be damned. Teachers that these courses tend to have like to go on power trips, flexing their tenure to see just how far they can push unwitting students. After all, it's not until after you enroll in these colleges and pay their dues do you see the syllabus.

That sort of shit is the kind of thing I see time and time again in people who give up on college. Power-hungry "teachers" who insist that their class is the most important thing in the world, that a student's ass in the seat matters more than anything a student may learn, that they are the be-all, end-all of collegiate life. It isn't until you get into the 300-400 level courses where that sort of attitude mellows out, but sadly, many (Not all or even a majority, but many) kids end up dropping out because of this level of bureaucratic nonsense.

[Jedi Guy]

123. Sure, you have to take electives.

And to an extent, I agree with you that electives are silly and pointless. The stated goal is that they're supposed to make you "well rounded." The reality, as told to me by the dean of the engineering college when I was a freshman, is to keep you at the university as long as they possibly can. If they allowed you to take just the classes required for your degree, you could burn out of there in 2-3 years. By forcing you to take electives, they can bleed you for another 1-2 years of tuition.

But while you have to take electives, you don't have to take specific electives such as art history, which Coventina teaches. If her class policies or subject aren't interesting, there are myriad others to choose from. No offense to Coventina, but I would never take an art history course unless I had absolutely no other option. I'm simply not interested in it. But there are plenty of other electives, some of which may be more to my (or this particular student's, as the case may be) taste.

So yeah, I doubt very much that this student had absolutely no other alternative when it came to choosing her electives. She could have chosen Gothic literature, Eastern European history, or underwater basket-weaving.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

126. Some private colleges don't exactly have a deep pool of electives to choose from.

When it came down to my sciences, I had two choices; A subtype of biology (Of which I had no interest or background) or earth sciences, which I had the background in but absolutely loathed with all of my being. I was faced with a sophie's choice; "The course involving shit you hate or 'Unknown'". I elected for "Unknown". Thank the fucking Gods, that Biology course (which I've since forgotten every iota of) was tolerable enough to the point of passing with honors, but imagine someone who had not a scientific bone in their body; They could pass EVERY course in their field with a 4.0, but because some bureaucratic dickcheese in Administration with a two-year degree in Art Sciences insisted that "EveRy sTUDenT bE wELl-rOuNDeD", that student would fail.

I'm not saying that every, most, or even many colleges were like mine, but a lot of them are. I oppose ANY policy where students are hampered or even outright rejected for bullshit reasons. Knowledge should be encouraged, not suppressed and oppressed.

[Jedi Guy]

128. On the whole, I agree with you.

If it were within my power, I'd ban public universities from requiring electives. Let the student choose the degree they want to go for, let them take only the classes required for that degree, and that's the end. Forcing them into taking classes they have no interest in or utterly loathe is idiotic and pointless. It's literally nothing more than a cash grab thinly veiled with the "well rounded" excuse. And given how shockingly expensive a university education is these days, such a cash grab should be slapped down hard.

But on the flipside, how else are universities going to pay for all those administrators and the fancy-pants admin buildings in which they work? If students are burning out of there in 2-3 years as opposed to 4-5, the university is hemorrhaging money, and we can't have that. The necessity of filthy lucre taints everything, alas.

By the way, welcome to DU. I enjoyed your responses.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

129. Thank you kindly for the welcome, friend.

Yeah, it's just a bit of a pet peeve of mine, the way universities have become essentially grinders that milk as much money out of the incoming students as possible. I also feel for the poor teachers, as they (generally) are poverty stricken unless they can whack out a side-hustle to make ends meet. Just, the whole system is corrupt and filled with leeches and parasites.

Anyways, could go on, won't. Suffice to say, education needs reform from the bottom up.

Thanks again for the welcome. Very glad to be here, on behalf of the Antiwork/WorkReform movement. It's been a true pleasure interacting with you, and I look forward to many more clashed light(dark?)sabers in the future!

[Piasladic]

143. yikes!

I say instead of burdening students with the cost, the state should pay more. In my neck of the woods, more and more of the cost is heaped on students because the govenment is not funding colleges. We can talk about textbooks and admin., but the real hole in the bucket is federal aid.

Maybe we should help young people (and older) learn more than what they absolutely need to be cogs in a machine.

[AZLD4Candidate]

175. Attendance policies for university students are set by the Feds to bring in Fed funding

The Feds, under Bush, felt students were getting aid and not going to class.

But you appear to be misdirecting your anger towards powerless professors and teachers.

Please proceed. I love watching teacher/professor/education bashing.

[róisín_dubh]

176. Jesus Christ almighty...

This attitude is one of the reasons I cannot WAIT to leave higher education.

[Happy Hoosier]

61. I never had a job that did.

My Dad passed away in 2000 and my mom in 2004.

In neither case was asked to provide proof. I was offered condolences and told to take my leave.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

65. Same. Lost all four grandparents in my working career, never had to give proof.

The fact that a school "Requires" it is suspect as fuck.

[AZLD4Candidate]

173. What are you even talking about?

In high school, there are required credits to graduate. These are set BY the State Education department.

In universities, they are called core classes. The purpose to be well rounded, not a good worker bee.

Are you advocating turning school and universities from places of education into job-skill centers? That would be the anti-thesis of decades of educational theory starting with John Dewey in modern times.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

73. Every job required it for me.

I live in Ohio, though, where an eviction notice can take place after being one day late for rent.

[Coventina]

78. Please see my reply to you in post #68 n/t

[Wingus Dingus]

48. The funeral home/mortuary can provide info that she can forward,

even if there's no newspaper death announcement or religious service. This is one of those cases where you can be offended, but...oh well. Be offended, but send the required documentation. Or, be prepared to have your absences unexcused. It's her choice.

[orleans]

138. that depends.

what if there was no viewing or service at the funeral home? what if the only services the funeral home provided was to pick up the body, fill out death certificate, send info to the state or wherever they report it, send body out for cremation, and allow family member to pick up the ashes?

the funeral home would not be allowed to give out an extra copy of a death certificate to just anyone. also funeral homes charge for death certificates.

so this girl would have to ask a cousin or uncle for a copy of her aunt's death certificate. how likely is she to ask, how likely are they to give her a copy of it.

maybe you think that the scenario in my first paragraph is bullshit. but i can promise you that sometimes such a thing happens.

[Celerity]

131. bollocks nt

[iemanja]

49. I suppose because of the importance of extended family

in some cultures. Still, there is no reason that she can't provide proof.

[kentuck]

54. Perhaps the policy should be more clearly defined?

If bereavement leave only applies to the closest of relatives, and an aunt and uncle are not considered "close" enough relation, then perhaps there should be a form to sign if the person wants bereavement leave, and it should be a new policy? (First and second cousins can be very close also)

[Coventina]

55. I agree completely, and I was going to give her the attendance credit.

All I wanted was proof.

It's just a bit much to be told that I'm "culturally insensitive" when I was actually expanding the policy to accommodate her.

[alphafemale]

67. She is going to have 25 aunts and uncles maybe 8 grandparents die in the next couple years

She is a slouch about.

Nearly guaranteed.

Just document it.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

59. All of those life insurance companies...

... that require evidence of death before issuing the funds are all culturally insensitive, I suppose.

If your school has an official policy that covers this bereavement issue, it's a contract that the student needs to abide. Or she could attend a different school with different rules about it, if they exist.

[jcgoldie]

66. I don't know about the cultural issue but...

A couple thoughts I have which will get you some coffee if you put them with a couple quarters. The high school where I teach has a similar “immediate family” bereavement policy. A coworker’s uncle died and they denied the request. As the steward we contested that and won based on her personal relationship with the man who raised her. Ie what constitutes “immediate family” is not always black and white.

Also I agree with the person above who suggested they would not ask for proof. My philosophy with students is to take them at their word until they give me a reason not to. Does that trust get abused sometimes? Perhaps. But my opinion based on 20+ years teaching is you most often get back what you expect. If you approach students like they are truthful then most of the time they will be and I would much rather get duped occasionally than be insensitive and accusatory when it isn’t warranted. Thats just my 2 cents worth probably nothing.

[demmiblue]

79. +1

There is kind of a cringey feel to many of the responses in this thread, tbh.

[Meowmee]

81. If a student has a death in family

I take them at their word, no proof etc required. I am not sure what the cultural part is about, but why invite mo problems requiring proof.

[dalton99a]

89. Documentation requirements from random schools:

Purdue University:

Immediate Family: Students are eligible for up to three (3) days of excused absence over five (5) consecutive calendar days for the death of a spouse, parent, child, grandparent, grandchild or sibling, or a corresponding in-law or step-relative.

Relative living in the student’s home: Students are eligible for up to three (3) days of excused absence over five (5) consecutive calendar days for the death of an uncle, aunt, niece, nephew or first cousin living in the student’s home.

Relative: Students are eligible for one (1) day of excused absence for the death of an uncle, aunt, niece, nephew or first cousin.

In the event of the death of another family member or friend not explicitly included within this policy, a bereaved student should petition for grief absence through the Office of the Dean of Students (ODOS) by meeting individually with an ODOS staff member for case evaluation.

In addition, students may be granted additional absences to account for travel considerations, to be determined by the distance of the verified funeral services from a student’s home Purdue Northwest campus as follows:

Within 150 mile radius of a student’s home Purdue Northwest campus – no additional excused absence days; between 150-300 mile radius of a student’s home Purdue Northwest campus – one additional excused absence days; beyond 300 mile radius of a student’s home Purdue Northwest campus – two additional excused absence days; outside the 48 contiguous United States – four additional excused absence days.

A student should contact the ODOS to request that a notice of his or her leave be sent to instructors. The student will provide documentation of the death or funeral service attended to the ODOS. Given proper documentation, the instructor will excuse the student from class and provide the opportunity to earn equivalent credit and to demonstrate evidence of meeting the learning outcomes for missed assignments or assessments. If the student is not satisfied with the implementation of this policy by a faculty member, he or she is encouraged to contact the Department Head and if necessary, the ODOS, for further review of his or her case. In a case where grades are negatively affected, the student may follow the established grade appeals process.

https://www.pnw.edu/dean-of-students/policies/grief-absence-policy-for-students/

University of Illinois:

Students will be eligible for an absence letter for the period of time outlined below if documentation (e.g., an obituary or funeral program) can be provided. However, the decision about whether bereavement related absences will be excused remains at the discretion of individual instructors.

Up to five days of bereavement leave in the event of the death of an immediate family member including: parent, legal guardian, spouse/life partner, child, sibling, or grandparent.
Up to three days of bereavement in the event of the death of an uncle, aunt, niece, nephew, or cousin.

Relatives in law and step relatives in the categories above are covered by this policy. Students who need to travel outside of North America may be approved by the Office of the Dean of Students for up to four additional absence days. These days will be approved based upon a documented travel itinerary.

Students should notify their instructors of the death and impending absence prior to leaving campus or shortly thereafter. When an absence letter is required by an instructor, students should bring documentation to the Office of the Dean of Students within two weeks of the last date of absence.

* Providing falsified documents or misleading information is a violation of the Student Code sections listed below.

§ 1 303 Falsification of Documents
§1-302 Rules of Conduct
(g) Providing false or misleading information to a member or agent of the University acting in the performance of his or her duty

https://odos.illinois.edu/community-of-care/resources/students/bereavement/

[Buckeye_Democrat]

97. I just looked up the bereavement policy...

... from the policy manual of a former employer, and aunts/uncles weren't included at all.

And they required proof of death AND evidence of relationship to the deceased to get the excused time off for bereavement at all.

I didn't like it either, but that was the policy there and I agreed to the policies to be employed there.

[Coventina]

108. Here is ours:

Official Absences
A. Official absences are those that occur when students are involved in an official
activity of the college, i.e., field trips, tournaments, athletic events, and present
an official absence excuse form. Absences for such events shall not count
against the number of absences allowed by an instructor or department.
Students who must miss a class for an official reason must obtain an official
absence verification card from the appropriate vice president or designee and
present it to the appropriate instructor(s) before the absence. Prior arrangements
must be made with each instructor for make-up work. If prior arrangements have
been made, the student will not be penalized.
B. Other official absences include jury duty and subpoenas. Appropriate
documentation will be required. Prior arrangements must be made with each
instructor for makeup work. If prior arrangements have been made, the student
will not be penalized.
C. In the event of military commitments. Absences for periods of up to one week will
not be counted against the number of absences allowed by an instructor or
department. The student is required to provide appropriate documentation of the
specific orders, length of assignment and location. Prior notification must be
initiated with each instructor to discuss make-up work. If the length of the
absence will be longer than one week, the instructor and the student will
determine whether there is sufficient opportunity for the student to make up the
work. If it is determined that the length of absence for the military commitment
provides an undue hardship on the student’s ability to make up the assignments,
he or she will be provided an opportunity to request an incomplete grade or drop
the class or, in the case of open-entry classes, the opportunity to request an
extension.
D. In the event of the death of an immediate family member, absences for periods of
up to one week will not be counted against the number of absences allowed by
an instructor or department. Students should contact instructor(s) as soon as
possible to arrange for make-up work. Appropriate documentation will be
required (for example, a copy of the obituary or funeral program).

[dalton99a]

110. +1. "will be required"

[yardwork]

158. You don't have the option to waive the policy, it seems.

You are accommodating this student with kindness and compassion. It's odd that they responded so defensively with an accusation using current buzz words. Like others in this thread, I see some red flags. You're wise to have consulted the Diversity office. I hope the rest of the semester goes well!

[Sympthsical]

99. She used a term she knew you would flinch at

Kind of the problem with giving things overvalued currency. Some people use certain terms because they know it will immediately put the other person on the defense.

As an HR manager, I deal with this issue on the regular. My advice: Stick to your policy. Airlines wouldn't take her word for it and neither should you. You attempted to be lenient and got what looks like suspicious ass-covering at first glance.

It's something I keep in mind. "If I can't be nice, rules will suffice."

I usually bend over backwards to accommodate people and be lenient. But once it veers into, "Oh, they think I'm a raging idiot," territory it becomes, "Sorry, this is the policy. It's part of the employee agreement you signed when we hired you."

I hate throwing paperwork in someone's face, except for sometimes I totally do.

[blogslug]

102. If it were me I would not pick this battle

Unless higherups are going to penalize you for giving her the bereavement leave, I would just let this one slide.

[BradAllison]

112. An administrator should be handling this.

Creating an adversarial situation between a professor and a student is a bad idea. Administrators should be playing "bad cop" and not laying the burden on individual teachers to get paperwork..

[Coventina]

113. There's a thought!!!!!

[Buckeye_Democrat]

114. Agreed.

A professor doesn't need to be involved in this matter at all.

Leave that job to the administrative staff who treat you like a number at a bureau of motor vehicles. It's all rules and proper paperwork to them.

[Hortensis]

159. Excellent suggestion. Buck it to the people with the responsibility,

and power, to deal with it and any possible sequelae.

[meadowlander]

116. When I taught at university my policy was:

you get four absences. I don't want or need to know why. You're adults and can manage your sickness, bad breakups, family bereavement, pet loss, hangovers, traffic, childcare woes, etc. around four absences a semester (given that there were only two classes a week anyway). I'm not a doctor, I'm not a psychologist, I'm not the bereavement police and I refuse to spend my time trying to evaluate the relative merits of why a grown adult decided to prioritise something else over their education on any given day.

After four absences, I drop your final grade half a grade for each additional absence unless you write a 10 page essay on a topic I set (usually on the subject matter from the day they missed) graded pass/fail per additional absence. The only exception is if they bring me a letter from the dean documenting a serious reason for prolonged absence (e.g. recovery from a car crash, clinical depression) and at that point they should really be considering withdrawing from the class and retaking it.

In four years, I only ever had two students take me up on the essay option. One girl missed one extra day, did a passing essay and was fine. Another boy missed twelve classes and then found out trying to write 80 pages worth of passing essays in the middle of finals week wasn't the winning strategy he thought it was going to be. Most kids figured out they'd rather have bums on seats for an hour than spend five writing an essay. .

Honestly why are you as a teacher in the position of trying to work out how attached a relative stranger was to their aunt and/or whether the aunt actually died or not? The school policy on bereavement leave seems pretty old-fashioned. How do you know she wasn't raised by her aunt or grandmother? There's a lot of kids whose extended families are their immediate families or who may be closer to aunts and uncles than their parents or siblings.

It should really be the dean's office that should be asking for documentation and evaluating whether to accept it or not.

[Coventina]

117. ****** UPDATE ******

The diversity coordinator came by and we talked about it.

She doesn't understand the "cultural insensitivity" angle either. She flat out told me not to pursue that with the student at all.

She said that since documentary proof is a SCHOOL POLICY (I cut and pasted it above in this thread) that I explain that I have to follow the school's policy, just as she the student does.

She explained that the policy is there to protect students' grades in case of a tragedy, in that they can miss classes with no penalty, with the proper proof.

So, now I know. (And so do all of you, if you are still reading the thread).

[Buckeye_Democrat]

119. I'm happy for you.

Although I think it should be handled through administrative staff, acting as the go-between between you and the student.

People with no prior social attachments who simply apply policies.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

120. Agreed.

No reason a teacher should be involved at all in this particular snafu. If it's a school policy, let the school shoulder the burden. The teacher should have nothing to do with it at all other than as a messenger.

[ChazII]

155. Welcome to DU. n.t

[dalton99a]

121. +1. Another consideration is fairness to other students

Equal enforcement for all

[Coventina]

122. True. n/t

[BradAllison]

136. Good

Unfortunately these situations are more common than people wish to admit.

[Hortensis]

161. :) Still reading. Sounds good, and if there's any problem

it could be bucked up.

Learning more about common procedures and some of the whys and wherefores of policies has been interesting. (College was a looong time ago.) Some posters have very strange and limited notions about why things are done, so hopefully this discussion'll help broaden those.

[Joinfortmill]

141. Her issue, not yours. Sounds fishy.

[48656c6c6f20]

150. I don't know.

The family might have reasons, many reasons to not have a Twitter release of a death. Who knows for sure? Maybe the Aunt was an embarrassment to the family?
And another thing, if she is sinning you who fucking cares. She surely doesn't and it's on her what the consequences are.
So not you're not culturally insensitive, maybe a control freak? I don't know you or the girl so it's hard to say.

[lostnfound]

152. She may be right actually, though we all have blinders and can't be blamed for not knowing all

1. The idea of family is completely dependent on subculture.
*‘Aunties’ are huge in Latino families.
*In many other groups, kids are being raised by grandmothers.
*In China kids are often (usually, even) live with grandparents in the countryside.

2. The idea of death / funerals is the subject of various cultural taboos and practices, and economic constraints.
*In Japan, the mere mention of death is often taboo, bad luck. You don’t give gifts numbering “4” — 4 of anything — simply because the kun reading (shi) for the kanji that means four is the same Jun reading for death. You give 3 of something or 7, but not 4.
*Newspapers don’t print obituaries for free anymore, and I’m not even sure they all do death notices. Nobody has newspapers come to their door either. Who is the young person going to approach to ask for a copy of the death notice?
Asking for proof of a tragic event is not as easy as it seems. Her mother or father, who know which she has, may be distraught enough, or may be absent to clean up affairs for the deceased.

Definitely she may be lying, definitely she may be telling the truth. But these rules done in the well-intentioned idea of accountability are simultaneously instilling concepts about the world in how to treat others with kindness or sensitivity, about whether we trust each other as humans.This is not a practical answer. It is something to mull over and consider as a different viewpoint. Which I think is what you asked for.

[Bad Thoughts]

153. If the aunt were an atheist or poor?

Or both?

Asking for a record of a service seems presumptuous, in my opinion. There could be numerous reasons why someone’s passing would not be memorialized in a formal manner in a house of worship or funeral home. Personally, I have asked that there be no formal memorial at my passing, a request informed by my religious beliefs.

I think you should reconsider your policy.

[JI7]

156. Makes me think she was lying

I get the cultural issue of aunts being seen as immediate family but you didn't dispute this with her so it's not an issue in this case .

Accusing you of being culturally insensitive seems like something she said because she was upset over having to provide some proof for something she lied about .

It didn't seem like you were being so strict either . I mean if it was just a private gathering and there was no "formal" memorial she could have just said that and asked what she could do .

I personally tend to be one of those that would prefer to not focus on attendance but in this case it was known policy so even if you disagree with it you still agreed to it.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

160. Agreed.

It's similar to other contracts, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't think the school should put their professors in that position, though. Their administrative staff should be handling it, in a Joe Friday "just the facts" manner.

[gulliver]

162. Blithely accusing someone of being culturally insensitive is out of bounds

I'm assuming this is a teenager or kid. Teachers are owed not just wide latitude and tolerance but respect. Based on what you've said, this student needs a visit to the principal's office. At a minimum, you are owed an apology. I'd say giving her detention and bringing her parents in to get their assistance in correcting their daughter's behavior should be on the table too, especially if the offense is repeated.

Most of all, you, as the teacher, are owed the full backing and support of all adults. The student "went too far" in this case, whether her story is true or not. Adults need to stand together to help kids learn to be responsible. Best would be if she could learn from this experience, apologize to you, and you could both move on with growth in your relationship.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

163. I think it's a college class, but...

... I found the mysterious "culturally insensitive" remark pretty rude too. At least she could've explained it, if it's true at all.

I don't think a college professor should be the person handling it anyway. Let the administrators handle it as the go-between, in a robotic "just the facts" manner since attendance policy was established before she started taking that Art History class anyway.

EDIT: Humans lived for many tens of thousands of years in small family tribes, so it seems logical to me that immediate family is still the main concern of most people. But now we live in a complex interconnected world of BILLIONS of people, most of whom we don't know and we'll never know, and it's not going away anytime soon. None of us were born with a choice in the matter, and there's rules that we'll all dislike eventually just to maintain some semblance of order in these "artificial" circumstances -- i.e., artificial compared to how humans lived for the majority of their existence on this planet.

[gulliver]

166. Agreed

It seems like the "policy was the policy" and should be handled by administrators. It's tough though. We're in a cultural environment where everyone's off their chill pills. Administrators don't have an easy job either.

[DLCWIdem]

164. All that is running through my mind is that Seinfeld episode

Where George Constanza went to his the funeral of a relative of his girlfriend and had to ask for a death certificate for proof to the airlines. So he could get out of paying full price.

That being said when I went to college we were not "policed" about attendance. I graduated from a university which had a lot of non traditional older students. They were serious about learning etc and they attended class because it was to their own detriment in learning if they didn't attend. It just seemed like the adult thing to do.. But there wasn't an emphasis to policing adults.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

169. Most of my old college classes didn't care either, but...

... a few of them (like science labs) understandably had attendance as part of the grade.

I'm not sure what Art History class entails, but MAYBE there's some old art that's displayed and it needs to be memorized? Or the students are expected to draw and paint sometimes?

One of my general education history classes was taught by a NEW professor who'd graduated from Harvard, with a recent PhD in art history. I withdrew from that class within a week! (Later taking it again from another professor.) The young professor told us that he wasn't going to cover the textbook at all. We were adults now, so we could do that on our own. Instead, he ONLY showed images of old art during the class and said that we were also going to be tested on memorizing the names and various details of the artwork in addition to the text from the thick history textbook (which was used for all three history classes required for the general education portion of our degrees).

So he apparently wasn't ready to break free from his art history obsession at that time, and I wasn't going to put up with the extra work for a general education class when my math and physics coursework was already a heavy workload for me.

In my case, I felt like the new professor was "breaking the contract" because memorizing old artwork was NOT part of that course description at all.

[SYFROYH]

167. Not all deaths are followed by services or an obit.

And money can be a big factor. Cultural shame over the deceased life or manner of death can be a factor.

I understand your need for certification.

[Renew Deal]

171. She's right. You're wrong, and an aunt is an immediate family member.

I don’t know why you feel that you are in the position to question it. Asking for a “flyer” is ridiculous. Also, are you following school policies? It sounds like you’re making it up as you go along.

***I read your update. It’s always better to quote policy in these situations. Sounds like it’s lesson learned on this one.