Am I Supposed to Believe?
The publicity surrounding the January 6 Select Committee has been virtually non-stop since day one.
Members of the committee have appeared regularly on prime-time news programs in order to update the public on their investigations re the number of witnesses they have interviewed, and the wealth of information they have learned as a result thereof.
Committee members have also made rather bold public statements about Trump "getting his come-uppance", and the impact that the televised hearings now being scheduled will have on the public's purview of what led up to the January 6th insurrection, and those who actively participated in its orchestration and ultimate execution.
Am I really supposed to believe that the Jan-6 committee, and the Democrats who have repeatedly brought attention to its work, are doing so only to say at the end of the day "but let's just forget about all of this, and just move on"?
Am I supposed to believe that all of this publicity is a lead-up to Merrick Garland saying "nothing to see here, folks, so don't expect me to do a god-damned thing"?
Am I supposed to believe that the Biden administration is allowing all of this focus on the Jan-6 committee to continue knowing that in the end, the entire Democratic party will be left twisting in the wind because nothing will be done about the crimes that have been uncovered against our democracy?
Am I actually supposed to believe that?
If Joe Biden and the Democrats intended to sweep the crimes of Trump and his co-conspirators under the rug, they would have adopted a "let's forget the past and look ahead" position from the beginning.
But they didn't. They instead forged ahead with an unrelenting pursuit of the truth.
So spare me the "nothing is going to come of this" bullshit - unless you honestly believe that President Joe and the Democrats have deliberately set themselves up to fail in full view of the entire country.
I fear that it is all theater, but hope and fear often live together.
Oh, and one typo: Democratic party, not Democrat.
Believe what you like.
I will rejoice when there is a result. All the speculation before there is a result is blather.
But the chastisements and exhortations do seem to entertain many and garner much indignant attention, so carry on.
... that the Democrats are deliberately setting themselves up to be ridiculed?
Care to share your theories on why they would do so?
My OP is about why the Democrats would focus so much attention on investigations they have no intention of following through on.
Your response doesn't explain why they would do so.
DOJ is supposed to be non-partisan.
So why would a non-partisan DOJ ignore the evidence of crimes committed against our country - as many here continually contend they are doing?
DOJ dropped the ball by allowing a pro-Trump fake company have access to ballots, voter information, election material and equipment, all in violation of state and federal laws. Those items should have remained in the possession of election officials.
Why is the select committee subpoenaing fake electors if DOJ is acting on the Michigan AG's referral? Why would the select committee get involved in an ongoing investigation?
It is day 68 since the Mark Meadows criminal referral, day 40 since the Michigan AG's referral.
you assert ("not contending" in your words) that the AZ recount broke both state and, more importantly, federal law. Prove it. Fact is, that is not established as fact - and there seems to be a range of opinions, including on the part of judges and DOJ. So - for you to assert it as given truth - again, and again ... Propaganda.
"We have a concern that Maricopa County election records, which are required by federal law to be retained and preserved, are no longer under the ultimate control of elections officials, are not being adequately safeguarded by contractors, and are at risk of damage or loss," Karlan wrote in the letter addressed to Fann.
'Having a concern' does not rise to the level of 'broken the law' - and apparently there are a variety of people (state and federal) that have come to a similar conclusion. Your reading of code notwithstanding, the fact is that other people disagreed - and a shrill repetition of your alternate opinion changes things not at all.
Except, what was that line again .. ? "-Propaganda comes from repetition,-"
Lets go through it one more time just so you can once again ignore it.
"DOJ dropped the ball by allowing a pro-Trump fake company have access to ballots, voter information, election material and equipment, all in violation of state and federal laws. Those items should have remained in the possession of election officials."
Once AZ passed legislation to allow the ninjas to do an audit, they were not in violation of any state or federal laws. Audits are allowed even if repugs choose to hire an obviously partisan company to do it. The only law they intended to break was to use the materials to go door to door and question voters... Garland told them he would prosecute if they tried and they immediately put a halt to any such action.
"Why is the select committee subpoenaing fake electors if DOJ is acting on the Michigan AG's referral? Why would the select committee get involved in an ongoing investigation?"
How does the Jan 6th committee bringing in the fake electors to talk to have anything to do with the DOJ investigation? False premise that looks to me like an insinuation that there is no DOJ investigation when we know there is one. If I'm wrong, explain the issue here further please.
"It is day 68 since the Mark Meadows criminal referral, day 40 since the Michigan AG's referral."
Again, it is explained in easy to understand language here:
So... There it is. Yet again disputed for you to ignore.
and if not Biden can get rid of Garland. He is there to do a job, not play politics or worry about people thinking the DOJ turned Democratic, that is not his job, his job is to enforce the law to make sure that the so called "rule of law" and "no one is above the law" holds true.
According to Neil Katyal, and Dan Goldberg, the DOJ maybe acting on all of it but keeping leaks out, they also may be waiting for the findings of the Jan 6 committee to complement with their investigation. I am impatient but I am also optimistic, so for now I am going to believe on those assumptions.
Your question about subpoenaing fake electors. They need to the information they may be able to get from them to find the links the thug had with those failed plans. The goal is to get to the head, the way to kill a snake is by chopping its head, but you have to be able to get to the head first.
You are correct about Meadows and Michigan's AG referral, and I believe it would be detrimental for Biden and his chances in 2024 if nothing happens, it would also be detrimental for our Democracy, so I have to believe that he, and the rest at the White House, are aware of all these. Also, I have to believe that Biden is aware that indictments of the thug, his family and gang WILL create violence and thus he must be alerting and preparing the military to take actions against domestic enemies, while at the same time preparing for Putin's actions, which I believe are also geared to affect negatively Biden's presidency, and we will know that if all actions by Putin come to nothing.
Have some guts to stand behind Biden, the DOJ and the January 6th Committee!
We don't need this kind of negativity .............
I'm not saying anything except:
Until there are arrests, placing some current and past political office holders and executive functionaries, all known bad actors, in jail awaiting trial, it is a fantasy. It's been 13 months since the attempted coup. There should see at least one major player in jail.
That could happen tomorrow. Or next week or month. But it cannot be tolerated if it fails to materialize before the mid-terms. It's not a terribly high bar, but then, neither is it nearly high enough. It's simply a fundamental requirement that one must be first.
Any explanation that proposes patience beyond the point in time when popular opinion can still be significantly rallied against voter suppression legislation, complete with its thug style enforcement, long before the midterms, is the real fantasy. There will be guardians at the polls. Even white people might feel intimidated this time.
Let's diagram that sentence to make it clearer, "Any explanation that proposes unjustified patience is the real fantasy". If a single one of our contingency is not performing their duties with an overwhelming sense of urgency, they're unnecessary. It won't help to wait for them to publish their book about why they failed.
Who among you foresees a June sweep? July? August? September? October?..........next February with a republican congress?
but he has no business telling Merrick Garland what to do, he is not president Biden's personal lawyer like Bill Barr was for Trump.
"Am I supposed to believe that the Biden administration is allowing all of this focus on the Jan-6 committee to continue knowing that in the end, the entire Democratic party will be left twisting in the wind because nothing will be done about the crimes that have been uncovered against our democracy?"
... exactly what it says.
Biden appointed Garland knowing that January 6th was going to have to be addressed and dealt with.
Do you think he chose Garland while thinking "here's a guy who will probably sit back and do nothing"?
and directing others to look the other way when there's something that conflicts with their view of things.
I mean, not to change the subject or anything...
"The only thing worse than the death and destruction that Hitler brought into the world, are the good people who stood back and allowed it to happen." Winston Churchill.
Our democracy is hanging by a thread and patience does not inspire me.
The worst thing that can happen to suppress our vote in 2022 is for no coup planners to be held accountable.
Sydney Powell is suing Verizon to keep the select committee from subpoenaing her phone records, DOJ has the authority to get those records.
And it happens all the time.
I hope its not, but I feel like Charlie Brown, Lucy, and the football often.
"And tighten a Victorian corset, memorize all those lines, and act in front of an audience for three hours if she wasn't actually going to marry the man pretending to be a millionaire and move to the country estate?"
That was seriously the first reply that came to my mind. Politicians do a lot of things for political appearances to solely gain a political advantage.
I have zero idea what's going on in the background. It's why I don't comment on it. If something happens, great. If not, well I expected nothing. Other than that, all anyone can say really is, "We'll see what happens."
But I found the question posed in the OP incredibly easy to answer.
I've been reading a lot of 19th Century women's literature lately, so I have that imagery in my head all the time now.
Me, I prefer to take Nance's and Oddballs advice:
I'm with you Nance.
Biden, the DOJ and the January 6th Committee are working on this pile of crap left behind tfg, and they won't rest until
JUSTICE IS DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will believe that actions will happen when I see them happen and not a moment before.
who are posting such nonsense here, but they do it constantly, so it might seem like it is a common belief.
It's just a small group sowing dissatisfaction and discord and trying to discourage Democrats. The rest of us are here watching to see what happens next at the DOJ and state prosecutors in the pursuit of justice. We're patient, because we know that there is nothing simple about it.
Dan Goldman, Frank Figliusi, Adam Schiff, Laurence Tribe, Ruben Gallego, Elie Honig, Neal Katyal, Harry Litmann, Eric Swallwell.
Laurence Tribe even made the statement that if we don't have evidence that DOJ is investigating Trump and his traitorous friends by January it's not going to happen.
Answer me this MM;
Why did the select committee subpoena numerous fake electors if DOJ is investigating the Michigan referral? Isn't the select committee interfering in an ongoing investigation? One would think the select committee would touch base with DOJ before proceeding.
What if you and your "have patience crowd" are wrong? Will you still claim that I sowed discord?
The biggest threat to suppressing voter turnout in 2022 is to not hold Trump and his pals accountable.
The biggest boost to getting people enthused to vote in 2022 is to hold Trump and his traitorous friends accountable.
DOJ had better get on the ball challenging all of the election dirty tricks that the Magats have done. Election time is fast upon us when DOJ refrains from influencing the election.
It's easy to find people you can quote. That doesn't make them correct, though.
... numbers in house and senate like DOJ arrest would like this Aug or Sept for instance.
The bigger issue is timing of DOJ moves against the GQP to help increase house and senate hold so we can stop GQP anti democracy laws that have been shown to be effective so far.
GQP wins control of either chamber this Nov then national election laws for 24 is a no go.
Stop telling people to look down please, there are enough LEGIT and CREDIBLE alarms going off that indicate DOJ arrest before THIS Nov isn't going to happen.
If arrest happen before this Nov I'll OP "I was wrong You were right" ... HAPPLY
and I haven't actually seen anyone say that Democrats are deliberately setting themselves up for failure. The truth is, MF45 along with his corrupt family and criminal associates are working to obstruct and block. Also continuing to commit crimes. Openly.
They have help from complicit republicons. Who are almost certainly their co-conspirators.
Someone is paying the lawyers, we all know MF45 doesn't pay his bills.
The thing missing is the sense of extreme urgency from too many on our side. EVERY democrat needs to be as urgent, or more, in delivering justice to them as they are in avoiding it.
The shop-worn scolding about us failing to "be patient" has gone on long past its expiration date. While it's likely true that indictments will follow completed investigations, they have all committed a multitude of crimes that are not related to each other and they SHOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED for. An arrest on something unrelated doesn't interfere with an investigation. Would a murder suspect expect to drive 100 mph, shoplift, write a bad check and not be arrested for those things because of the murder investigation? Hell no! But that's exactly what is happening with the MF45 crime empire.
Here's something else that's past its expiration date. Unless I missed something, the obstruction statute of limitations against MF45 expires this month. Mueller left a clear road map for prosecuting MF45, with the only thing stopping him being his statement not to prosecute a "sitting" president. MF45 is no longer "sitting".
No charges, and no explanation. And if the clock hasn't run out on that yet, there are only a few days left in the 5 year SoL.
That's why we're impatient. Democracy is being destroyed right in front of us and there is little or nothing we can do but vote, and they're working to make sure we can't even do that. It is not wrong at all to be impatient, and in fact, terrified at the future we can see being shaped.
We all want to see them convicted, but the clock is ticking, time is not on our side, and "being patient" may well equate to counting a lot of chickens that never do hatch.
So that's why many people feel like this guy:
I look for your threads, and nearly always agree completely, but I think you are a little off-target with this one.
asking Garland to indict Trump for obstruction of justice. People can Google it if they think I am being negative.
Garland could also have indicted trump as "individual one" in the Stormey Daniels pay off. Michael Cohen went to jail for delivering the check that was signed by Trump. Alas, the statute of limitations has now run out for that crime.
I'm afraid that it's not only sitting presidents who some believe can't be indicted, but also former presidents.
... but everybody's hair is on fire for something that most likely wont affect as as quickly as the GQP anti democracy laws that will NOT be stopped on a national level by congress if the GQP takes a chamber this Nov.
Agree with every word of this - especially this: "An arrest on something unrelated doesn't interfere with an investigation. Would a murder suspect expect to drive 100 mph, shoplift, write a bad check and not be arrested for those things because of the murder investigation? Hell no! But that's exactly what is happening with the MF45 crime empire."
It seems like there is plenty of low hanging fruit they could go for with this game which would not preclude them from getting nailed on the larger charges, so what gives? We aren't the ones who are making millions of Democrats out there lose faith in the system by expressing frustration, THEY are! We just want some accountablity.
Every day that goes by with no consequences makes them a little bit bolder in the working toward that task that they intend to complete, which is the overthrow of our current democracy. We are on the clock, whether people want to admit it or not. I am sick of all this self-righteous "be patient, they know what they're doing!" crap. I know they know what they are doing. That's what worries me.
I like Biden as president, but I don't have a lot of faith in the DOJ. I don't think they are pursuing this with everything they've got.
They can only make the public aware of what they learn (which Trump supporters will all dismiss as "fake news" ), and then recommend to the DoJ that the DoJ follows up.
The DoJ should already be hard at work on pursuing the top-level people behind 1/6, not waiting on Congress. The apparent inaction of the DoJ so far in this regard is what is most troubling, and nothing in your OP contradicts this concern.
Timing also matters. We're already at a point where the DoJ can't or won't do anything against the major 1/6 conspirators until after the November elections. As far as I'm concerned, that's practically game over for democracy in America right there. Indictments, prosecutions, and convictions only happening in the second half of Biden's term is too late to do enough good.
It will lay out in prime time all of the crimes that have been committed and could have been prosecuted.
We have classified documents still missing and no search warrants to find them.
... of a fractured info medium like we have now and showing wall to wall hearings is going to affect public attitudes toward GQP pols.
MAGA Media isn't going to show MAGA Cult anything of value in regards to what the J6 has and if they do they'll ignore it and blame it all on Clinton or some shit.
We need to reach the middle and so far 538 or RCP generics aren't showing MAGA World treason is having any affect.
The DOJ arrest a bunch of these clowns before Nov ?!
THAT will have an effect, no doubt
I wrote 3 responses to the op in regards to timing before reading yours. People are don't see the timing issue in regards to stopping GQP anti election laws here.
The GQP anti democracy laws at state level have been SHOWN to be effective and they're not going to stop if they gain control or even half of congress.
You're right to be concerned and we gate a myriad of CREDIBLE professionals concerned too, we need to help people look up
I see no negative comments or "concern" posts I see people really worried the past will repeat and the chance to do something about it is fading fast.
... and professionals and ex DOJ insiders and election law lawyers that are also concerned.
We need to get people to look up,
There's a timing element to all of this, if the DOJ arrest 200 GOP pols and minions in 23 that doesn't help stop the state level anti democracy laws they'll enact en masse to turn an election in 24.
And there's no way either Schiff or Raskin would allow that to happen. They would go to jail and release all of the documents to save our Democracy before they would let the finds get swept under the rug. I think the country is in for a huge awakening and reckoning come Q2.
The public can see now that crimes have been committed, the evidence is out there. Yes, the select committee will produce more evidence that more crimes were committed, so what? What will that accomplish?
... are alarmed at DOJ pace isn't "Negativism".
Again, if the DOJ arrest pols and major players before Nov ... I'll JOFULLY post I was wrong you were right OP
except for AG Garland has said anything based on factual information about that investigation. Nobody. Garland did, in a long speech about the DOJ's actions and plans. So, your post title is incorrect from the start.
As for your plan to speak "Jofully," that's fine. But, you and others are speaking frequently and negatively from a position of zero real knowledge. That negativism is based on nothing but idle speculation.
I do not know exactly what is currently happening at the DOJ. So, I'm waiting to see what happens, which is the only sensible thing to do, since I cannot know and since I have absolutely zero influence in the matter.
Negativism is toxic. I will speak out against it whenever I encounter it. You can count on me for that.
... who know what is SUPPOSED to happen or NOT HAPPENING, including dem pols overseeing shit, that can rationally calculate a probability that's something is wrong and are ringing alarm bells.
Yeah of course, if people are not 100% INSIDE a house fire there's no way they can tell to at 100% assuredness the people they hear screaming from the house are in REALLY in danger.
But there's a high probability that somethings screwed up and we shouldn't see fire persons walking to hook up a hose and moseying to turn it on.
- history of DOJ inaction on Trump (dude LITERALLY admitted to OOJ in firing Comey on camera)
- credible sources ringing alarm bells
- a time schedule relating to upcoming NOV elections and DOJ actions
All ***THREE*** of those items are RATIONAL issues to be concerned about and it's not "negatism" to point them out.
I'm done with this conversation, frankly.
It is negativism you are spreading. Sorry.
... for my "I was wrong you were right" post after I see DOJ arrest before Nov.
To protect our way of life?
That's the question back.
I can't say what I would 'personally' do as it's not fit for posting at DU.
The public cannot 'see'. There are a lot of sheep in America that might actually believe for example - Ukraine is actually bombing separatists . . . when it's just a bunch of false flag propaganda by the Russkies. Those people - will NEVER admit or understand the danger their votes in 2016 and 2020 put our country in. They won't.
That said - the conspiracy to overthrow America and install a dictator goes far beyond aides and cabinet members in this situation.
G. Gordon Liddy
I think the committee has the ability to get an awful lot accomplished.
I don't think we have any understanding of just how HUGE the data set is. Me - you don't have to -
I trust Jamie Raskin when he says the coup hearings will blow the roof off of the House.
The only think that is going to disappoint me - is if the pipe bomber is not identified.
... isn't having an effect on public opinion.
Hell, no one has to convince Americans it was republicans that attacked America on J6 we all have the video
That .. ALONE ... should disqualify their asses and we should be up 20 in generic.
...fake issues like CRT, etc., than they are about Republicans being totalitarians who will do anything to re-install their idiot king, or someone even worse. And, as the general ignorance of the voting public has shown time and again, they mostly take out their frustrations on the party of the incumbent President, regardless of how little or how much sense that actually makes.
The Republican assault on democracy is the greatest existential threat to our country since the civil war, yet it's barely a blip on the radar of our voting public.
I don't even know for sure that arrests and convictions of major 1/6 figures will break through sufficiently to public awareness, but it could take some of the worst figures out of the running directly. Any number of Republican members of Congress should be in jail right now.
Further, solid DoJ action would certainly have more impact than mere bad news. We've sadly discovered that the capacity to dismiss anything unfavorable to Republicans as "fake news" is essentially infinite within the Republican base.
.. just "voter suppression".
What they're doing is greater than voter suppression and has been shown WORLD WIDE to positively affect elections in the favor of those who enact them.
I don't even know for sure that arrests and convictions of major 1/6 figures will break through sufficiently to public awareness, but it could take some of the worst figures out of the running directly. Any number of Republican members of Congress should be in jail right now.
I agree, it would take a wall to wall blitz of 75% of US media for a month for the arrest by DOJ of GQP pols to break through.
This is an all hands on deck issue were too many rational and credible people are screaming there's something NOT happening and getting "be patient" worn out response again.
... chamber this Nov GQP continues its Anti Democracy laws EN FORCE that ALL have to be put down before Jan 24.
That's cuttin it tight, USSC has already let us know by their last ruling they're NOT on our side
By now, with all the proof to put the thug and his minions in jail and to see nothing concrete happening is very frustrating (the 15 boxes should be enough), the fact that people like Meadows have not been indicted for refusing to show themselves after being subpoenaed, that Jim Jordan, Ted Cruz, and many others are still shouting their mouths off spawning more vitriol, people at Fox News (TC) showing support for Putin and nothing happens? Yes, it is very frustrating, but we still need to write a positive script to make sure the thugs are held accountable.
I have always thought that if the public perception is that they feel "nothing will happen", that gives permission to those who can make things happen to make sure "nothing happens", but if they understand that if "nothing happens" there will be hell for them, they will fear and that will force them to do the right thing.
What happened in the four years of the thug, and in January 6, 2021 cannot go unpunished, and we need to send the right message out, loud and clear.
... is going to make a difference in 2022 generic ballot polling.
MAGA Media wont even show relavent parts of the hearings.
The drip of DOJ arrest of GQP polls week after week outlining how the GQP is trying to tear down democracy will though.
The media will have to wall to wall blitz cover each arrest too
I think that would affect generic ballot to show it was the GQP who attacked America on J6 not just a bunch of MAGA rich boys
Before TFG's first impeachment I remember all the complaints about how Democrats "aren't doing anything" & even "Nancy Pelosi is complicit." And then he was impeached, twice. Some folks seem to conclude that nothing is happening just because they don't see something happening. It's like, if it's not visible to them it doesn't exist.
Another thing that makes no sense are the folks who yell "Arrest somebody!" for January 6. Last I checked 772 "somebodys" had been arrested. It's public knowledge. It's been reported by multiple news outlets. It's not difficult to know this fact. There's even a searchable table:
772 people have been charged in the Capitol insurrection so far. This searchable table shows them all.
Now, like many folks, I would like to see charges against & arrests of higher-level people, including TFG, but to imply that NO ONE has been arrested is dishonest & a denial of reality.