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H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:19 AM Feb 2022

Batter Up

Years ago, my father asked my brother and I to assist him in the basement. A rat had literally broke through the cement floor, and had taken up room in the pool table. When we had it trapped in a corner, it quite literally attacked my father. I used a coal shovel to remove and eliminate the threat. I found myself thinking of that corner rat today while looking at Putin.

Now, although the Russian attack on Ukraine came as no surprise, it still made me feel sick when I saw coverage. I felt sick all day. Since my head injury three years ago, I have not experienced "anger," and am disappointed that my doctors said that emotion is unlikely to return. I decided to test that, by reading and watching a number of things on Putin.

This included "old" stuff on youtube. Some of those -- including several from other countrie -- were very impressive in their analysis of Putin. Yet others, such as a speech by John Mearsheimer, were very wrong. Now, John has been called "the most influential realist of his generation. On many issues, he has great insight. So, how could he be so wrong, while others were right on target, when it came to Putin?

I think the answer is thus: John thought entirely in the context of geo-politics among rational human beings. Intelligence sources include psychological assessments of various world leaders. I thought of my 2020 series of three interviews with Dr. Bandy Lee about Trump, his spporters, and finally the likelihood Trump would instigate violence if he lost to Biden. How I've been saying that Putin is the sociopathic thug that Trump dreams of being, since hearing the "genius" bit. So my primary focus was on listening to assessments of Putin that blend military and psychological concerns.

In between, I watched news updates, talked on the phone, and communicated with people on the internet. I was pleased to know that my west coast brother had been watching some of the same reports on Putin that I have been. I'm confident that everyone has an accurate opinion of Putin, and just how dangerous he is. While the Putin invasion of Ukraine is not going as he anticipated, we must recognize that he might intensify the violence And he has access to terrible weapons.

The pictures and reports of his recent meeting with his gang were curious. The distance between him and them would seem to at least hint that he prefers some degree of isolation. I was reminded of a clip from the movie "The Untouchables," linked below:



The only difference is that Putin carries a bigger stick. He sees the public rejection of his war, not that he cares if people like him. He counts on instilling fear by killing critics. He wants people to be too intimidated by his threats of violence to oppose him. But it is evident that he has miscalculated. Government leaders are not fleeing -- they are taking up arms. The people of Ukraine are determined to fight. NATO is not divided. He expected that fear of him would play a decisive role, and that isn't happening.

We hear the the next 72 hours will be extremely important. Of course that is true, but this will not be over any time soon, unless Putin is removed. I hope someone near him steps up. I know that sounds harsh, but I think it would be best. Yet we have witnessed that those surrounding Trump were too cowardly -- and often too greedy -- to do so, and it seems less likely anyone in Putin's inner circle will step up to the plate. Thus it is likely that Putin will demand an increase of violence, in the manner of a cornered rat.


26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Batter Up (Original Post) H2O Man Feb 2022 OP
I agree. Eko Feb 2022 #1
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2022 #7
Excellent. While putin has not yet unleashed the hell he could, it's early. Hoyt Feb 2022 #2
Right. H2O Man Feb 2022 #8
Not predicting, but won't be surprised if, Putin is gone soon. hvn_nbr_2 Feb 2022 #3
Yes. H2O Man Feb 2022 #9
If "step up" is a nice way of saying "eliminate", I agree. Nevilledog Feb 2022 #4
It is. H2O Man Feb 2022 #10
Sounds like realist Mearsheimer ,whom I'm not familiar with, doesn't know that the human Mind Karadeniz Feb 2022 #5
It surprised me, H2O Man Feb 2022 #11
There is every rational reason for a person to be egocentric. Brain and its ego help their human Karadeniz Feb 2022 #16
In Iroquois thought, H2O Man Feb 2022 #20
YES !!! Karadeniz Feb 2022 #22
It's interesting ..... H2O Man Feb 2022 #24
If you really want to explore the esoteric level, which both Paul and Jesus acknowledge, y'all Karadeniz Feb 2022 #25
Oh, yes, I've had H2O Man Feb 2022 #26
PUTLER has been pushing his luck for yrs. It's running out quickly ! monkeyman1 Feb 2022 #6
Thank you! H2O Man Feb 2022 #12
When I think of everything he did to interfere here Saoirse9 Feb 2022 #13
Buckled in. H2O Man Feb 2022 #14
Putin is a cornered rat... kentuck Feb 2022 #15
Yes. H2O Man Feb 2022 #17
Also, I think Trump's fortunes may be tied to Putin moreso than we know... kentuck Feb 2022 #21
You are correct. H2O Man Feb 2022 #23
Who's his clone? live love laugh Feb 2022 #18
Great question. H2O Man Feb 2022 #19
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
2. Excellent. While putin has not yet unleashed the hell he could, it's early.
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:46 AM
Feb 2022

Hopeful that Biden/NATO and others will finesse this such that Putin can back off so the cornered rat does not go ratchit crazy. Then, we can exterminate him through non-military channels.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
8. Right.
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 08:51 AM
Feb 2022

I have tried to think of a way that Putin could be forced to withdraw, yet save face. But I think he will have to be put down.

hvn_nbr_2

(6,485 posts)
3. Not predicting, but won't be surprised if, Putin is gone soon.
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:56 AM
Feb 2022

There have been a lot of cracks in his invincibility lately:
-oligarchs and their families dissenting
-close advisors not being enthusiastic enough
-Russian officials apologizing in other venues
-protests continue in spite of crackdowns, and public opinion in Russia is shifting against war
-various very public Russians who are not officials or cronies speaking against war
-soldiers rioting, surrendering rather than fight, and soldiers' families not even knowing they were going to war

All that in the context of:
-near universal worldwide revulsion. Even China is keeping distance.
-far greater resistance than expected.
-economic calamity about to hit, beginning Monday (today, really, but it's still Sunday on the west coast where I'm posting from.)

I had more to but it's late and I'm old and tired.

I would not be surprised if oligarchs, military, whatever is equivalent of Politbureau (spelling probably wrong) now, and even a Brutus don't in some combination and in some manner get rid of him. Even within a few days would not surprise me.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
9. Yes.
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 08:55 AM
Feb 2022

Great points. It would seem in Russia's best interests to get rid of the rat, for the exact reasons that you list. I hope someone there has a coal shovel.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
10. It is.
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 08:59 AM
Feb 2022

When I was talking with my daughter, I said, "This might sound terrible, but I hope that someone near Putin steps up, and parks a bullet in his skull." She said that she is hoping the same thing. That made me feel better about wishing for a human being's death, for hours earlier, my niece had called me daughter the Good Fairy of every fairy tale.

Karadeniz

(22,464 posts)
5. Sounds like realist Mearsheimer ,whom I'm not familiar with, doesn't know that the human Mind
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:22 AM
Feb 2022

is paranormal and not merely a function of the brain. His reality may be a bit limited.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
11. It surprised me,
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 09:03 AM
Feb 2022

because while I don't always agree with Mearsheimer, the guy is brilliant. Yet he thought that Putin was a rational person. I had reached out to Dr. Bandy Lee, hoping she had time over the weekend to do an interview about the cluster of personality traits that show otherwise. But then I thought that everyone here already has a pretty good idea of how dangerous he is.

Karadeniz

(22,464 posts)
16. There is every rational reason for a person to be egocentric. Brain and its ego help their human
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 10:41 AM
Feb 2022

survive. But when ego takes over thinking, that can be a problem...
witness Trump, Putin, Hitler, and every other completely self centered person and the people who find such leaders just perfect. A lot of people are mostly ego driven.

Then we see people who willingly choose to ignore ego to the extent that its biological survival purpose is completely overridden. I think of the son of Khan who gave the Constitution speech at the Democrat convention. His son chose to leave his building and his fellow soldiers to stop a likely suicide vehicle and died in the explosion...or the Ukrainian man who recently planted mines on a bridge, but the fuses didn't work, so he returned to fix them, but he didn't have time. He made one last phone call before exploding the bridge and himself, so we know his Mind overrode his ego's desire to survive.

It's the paranormal element of Mind that can shut down brain's biological purposes. But that's where people begin to doubt because that element can't possibly be physical or the brain would subdue its effect.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
20. In Iroquois thought,
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 03:54 PM
Feb 2022

Last edited Mon Feb 28, 2022, 05:27 PM - Edit history (1)

that is known as "becoming fully human." To rise above the emotions and sense of self-preservation that evolution has installed. The prophet Jesus spoke of noo greater love than laying down one's life for others. In western society, of course, most people only understand that in the literal, physical sense. Yet it has a much higher psychological meaning, as did most all of his teachings.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
24. It's interesting .....
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 05:32 PM
Feb 2022

today I am having a nice conversation with a Good Friend. I am introducing her to some of the higher meanings of the esoteric lessons in the Bible. Putting it in a psychological level, rather than the lower level literal meanings that most people see. And discussing how past teachers -- like the slave we know as Aespop, Jesus, and Malcolm X -- taught with fables/parables. If they had spoken openly, their safety was at risk, as history shows. More, if they only taught at the higher meaning, the vast majority of people would be either confused or think it nonsense.

Karadeniz

(22,464 posts)
25. If you really want to explore the esoteric level, which both Paul and Jesus acknowledge, y'all
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 06:22 PM
Feb 2022

should start with the startling conclusion drawn by paleographologist Bauer in Orthodoxy and Heresy in Earliest Christianity. He learned that there was never a time when a single (Orthodox) belief existed. He found that orthodoxy and heresy were more a product of geography, heresy being found more in the eastern areas, orthodoxy in the West. He didn't find universal orthodox beliefs on both sides... basically Jerusalem vs. Rome... which were quickly confiscated by heretics in the eastern area. Bauer, if I remember, calls the heretics Gnostics, but early sects called themselves more specific terms, like the Ebioni, the Poor. The Gnostics were such a varied group, because they used reason to try to explain the whole God System. I've found that, excluding the human brain details, the different groups seem to share a basic infrastructure: karma, reincarnation, a cosmology of levels of heavenly dominions with their own rulers, but one originating source. Naturally, karma and reincarnation (possibly provable due to the work of Dr. Ian Stevenson) assume the existence of a soul Mind.

If you're exploring the gospels, the easiest, to me, parable to decode is Matt. 5: 25-26. There is so much there!! If you need clues, just ask, but it's better to figure it out yourselves if possible!!!

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
26. Oh, yes, I've had
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 11:18 PM
Feb 2022

the Nag Hammadi library and the Dead Sea Scrolls for decades. I'm not much interested in Paul, and agree with Gandhi that the gospels are powerful, but that Paul took those teachings west -- in the sense that in the esoteric story about the Tower of Babel, the people moved from the east to a lower plain. Being good friends with Rubin Carter for 40+ years, I've had opportunity to discuss the sacred writings and teachings from different ages and areas of the world.

 

monkeyman1

(5,109 posts)
6. PUTLER has been pushing his luck for yrs. It's running out quickly !
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 02:51 AM
Feb 2022

same as republican Taliban party ! TDFG is out of teflon no stick coating & now he will feel the stainless steel of bracelets & grey bar motel ! people in their cell's wouldn't want to listen to his shit about a election that was not stolen from him . they will just shut him up !

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
12. Thank you!
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 09:08 AM
Feb 2022

I had a guy on facebook yesterday claim that Trump had not called Putin's attack on Ukraine "genius." Fake news, don't you know. He said that I needed to expand on the news sources I watch/read. I responded with links to Trump's calling this "genius." He posted a link saying it's not true, but if it was, he didn't mean it. I said people should listen to Trump's words and decide for themselves, that no analysis was needed.

Saoirse9

(3,676 posts)
13. When I think of everything he did to interfere here
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 10:02 AM
Feb 2022

And still didn’t get what he wanted, I think he must be livid.

And he has nukes. Michael McFaul,former ambassador to Russia, thinks he might use them. Even knowing that doing so would assure his own death.

Like Hitler and TFG he will take out as many people as he can on his way out. He stopped being rational a long time ago just like TFG.

At the beginning of this war Fiona Hill said to buckle up.

Are you buckled?

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
17. Yes.
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 11:08 AM
Feb 2022

I don't see him backing away from his plan to expand power. And I do not think he would stop with Ukraine if he is successful there. He needs to be removed.

kentuck

(111,051 posts)
21. Also, I think Trump's fortunes may be tied to Putin moreso than we know...
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 04:40 PM
Feb 2022

If one goes down, he will take the other one with him. They have conspired together to destroy democracies around the world and to destroy NATO. In my opinion, they worked together to take over Ukraine, also. They were buddies.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
23. You are correct.
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 05:27 PM
Feb 2022

They are far more connected. Trump is not only in debt, but his interests have covered Putin et al's hiding assets in the US. You are absolutely correct.

live love laugh

(13,074 posts)
18. Who's his clone?
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:39 PM
Feb 2022

I’ve seen personally many times where bad people with authority were removed/left only to have the same culture continue.

It would be great if he goes but his clones have to go too or nothing changes.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
19. Great question.
Mon Feb 28, 2022, 03:38 PM
Feb 2022

Perhaps the most likely replacement would be someone recognized for beaurocrat skills, that the wealthy crime bosses believe would protect their interests. In that case, it is possible that the only real change would be a withdrawal from much of Ukraine. While that is a start, and obviously necessary, it is not the degree of change that the Russian people deserve.

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