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H2O Man

(74,944 posts)
Wed Apr 20, 2022, 09:20 PM Apr 2022

Beyond the Valley of the Vallow

"I spent 20 years in prison, in a hell hole where people everyday tried to strip me of my dignity. I did nothing to be there. .... I did not belong there. Because I refused to follow their rules, I spent 10 of my 20 years in solitary confinement -- 6 feet underground, 5 slices of stale bread a day. I was stinking and starving. There was no morning, noon, or night -- just different shades of darkness. Hate took over everything." -- Rubin "Hurricane" Carter


My older son and his girlfriend visited. They talked about their workplace. She said, "It's really dysfunctional, but people ave adjusted, and the work gets done." This reminded me of two things: first, Erich Fromm's classic 1955 book, "The Sane Society," and second, one of Rubin's friends in Rahway State Prison, joining Carter in atalk with an amateur boxer who was angry and prone to hateful responses to his surroundings. Fromm's book details how difficult it can be for sane people to navigate in an insane society. Rubin and his friends would expand on their efforts, to create what became Rahway's "Scared Straight" program. The angry teenager listened to Carter's advice, hung up the gloves, and went on to become a sociqal worker. (Indeed, I used a modified "Scared Straight" with the help of my brothr-in-law, who worked at a correctional facility, when I worked with teens.)

Communities can reach a level of dysfunction when there is widespread issues of violence, poverty, drug abuse, and other problems. That dysfunction multiplies in force when a percentage of people experience what is known as shared delusional thinking. I do not think it is the long arm of coincidence wrenching itself out of socket to hold that we passed that point when Donald Trump got elected president. Most of us have family, friends, co-workers, and/or neighbors who, when it comes to politics, are as delusional as, say, Lori Vallow Daybell is about religion. Thus, in my opinion, we find ourselves existing in a dysfunctional society at this time. Our collective response will determine if we plunge further into an insane society.

Rubin's friend Tommy spoke of how when a person first enters prison, and a system different than anything they have previousle experienced, they tend to behave in a certain pattern. At first, the observe how that system operates. Soon, they adjust their behaviors in a manner that provides some degree of safety in an unsafe setting. And then, they become part of that sick system. That change in their behaviors becomes entrenched, thus explaining why rates of recidivision is so high upon their release. Dysfunction has become ingrained.

A significant percentage of republicans -- including people you and I knew as decent, rational people -- now are inhabiting the Valley of Vallow, where delusional thinking saturates their being. And, again, our individual and collective response will determine the future.


"Every 15 days we were allowed to take a shower, and every 30 days we were given a physical exam. During one of the checkups, I walked by a mirror. I saw a grotesque image. I saw the face of hatred, a monster, and that monster was me. I realized that Iwas not hurting them. They were hurting me. Hatred and bitterness only consumes the vessel that holds it." -- Rubin Carter

Back in 2001, after listening to Rubin speak at Binghamton University, a professor there asked a friend to ask me if I could get Rubin to add a chapter to a book she was writing. She had been raised in a brutal household, and the emotional scars that remained were extremely difficult for her to deal with. The quotes I am using here are from Rubin's contribution to her book.. He began with his thoughts on pain as a part of suffering, before talking about the amazing writings of Victor Frankl about his experiences in a concentration camp.

Frankl's writings played an essential role in Rubin's transformation, from a hostile man wrongly incarcerated, to becoming free. He knew that this would demand that he forgive those responsible for his incarceration -- the two convicts who were pressured into lying about him, the three cops who planted "evidence," and the prosecutors, judges, and juries. "I had to first forgive myself," he wrote. "I had to understand the conditioning. People are not born hating others or themselves. Their hate did not have to become my hate. ....

"... I came to an understanding of who and what I am. Like Victor Frankl wrote about concentration camps, I realized that prison provided me the tools to become all that I could be. I was able to seize the opportunity to use the horrible conditions to find something above the law. I had an opportunity to go on an anthropological expedition into an unnatural laboratory of the human spirit."

When a single piece on a mobile hanging above an infant's crib shifts, the other pieces must also shift. As Rubin changed, he found that those around him changed as well. It was a slow process, of course, but came to include not only those around him in prison, but also his circle outside of prison. This included members of his circle being motivated to uncover evidence that would be used in his final appeal -- including some from that former angry teen turned social worker. Rubin would attribute his winning in the federal courts to his transformation as a human being.

Few of us will ever be confronted with the type of circumstances that Rubin was confronted with. Yet, he could relate on a personal level with the issues the university professor was dealing with. He told her that, "ro forgive yourself and your parents, you need to understand that you too are a machine. I am no different, you are no different. There are no saints. It is the way we were created. We are all savages on this earth. We are as much of a machine as your lawnmower. Your reactions are the same as mine or anyone else's. But you have the ability to wake up. That's your salvation. Somehow, some way, you have to get over it."

Rubin used to tell me that every day we are alive on this beautiful, living earth, is a miracle. He also recommended that I move my family up near him in Canada, because he thought the United States resembled the crumbling empires of the past. Yet he believed that the good people in this country had the ability to transform it into a more perfect union, but that this would require a significant number of citizens to "wake up" (not to be confused with the misused "woke" we witness today). This was not some type of "religious" hokey-pokey, for Rubin viewed most "religious" leaders as charlatans. It was his belief that human beings were the highest level of unconsciousness of the earth, capable of becoming the earth consciousness. To transform the severe damage humankind has done to what we call the environment in recent centuries. And that this transdormation is on both the individual and group level.

45 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Beyond the Valley of the Vallow (Original Post) H2O Man Apr 2022 OP
TRuly This Is One Of Your Best Me. Apr 2022 #1
Thank you! H2O Man Apr 2022 #3
Your thinking is always on a whole other level Saoirse9 Apr 2022 #7
Well you know H2O Man Apr 2022 #11
We're all a mixed bag. Mr. Evil Apr 2022 #19
Thank you! H2O Man Apr 2022 #25
Ha Ha! I get it. Mr. Evil Apr 2022 #30
Sagan was brilliant. H2O Man Apr 2022 #32
Bookmarked dweller Apr 2022 #2
Thanks! H2O Man Apr 2022 #4
Thanks again! H2O Man Apr 2022 #17
you are welcome dweller Apr 2022 #18
Beautiful H2O Man...absolutely beautiful Docreed2003 Apr 2022 #5
Oh, thank you! H2O Man Apr 2022 #8
You are ggma Apr 2022 #22
That is so nice of you! H2O Man Apr 2022 #24
Perfect. More please! Saoirse9 Apr 2022 #6
The biggest difference H2O Man Apr 2022 #9
A lot older Saoirse9 Apr 2022 #13
Being a curmudgeon by both age and nature, H2O Man Apr 2022 #15
Why would you think people don't read your posts? I do!!!! Keep up the good work!!! Karadeniz Apr 2022 #21
Thanks! H2O Man Apr 2022 #26
I think the people who have good sense are listening Saoirse9 Apr 2022 #34
That explains why H2O Man Apr 2022 #36
As well you shouldn't. Saoirse9 Apr 2022 #43
It must be a H2O Man Apr 2022 #44
LOL aren't all NYS laws federal? Saoirse9 Apr 2022 #45
Another great one H2O Man. panader0 Apr 2022 #10
It's a great book. H2O Man Apr 2022 #12
As always, thinking about your insights Hekate Apr 2022 #14
Thanks! H2O Man Apr 2022 #16
The most difficult prison is our own mind Martin Eden Apr 2022 #20
Exactly! H2O Man Apr 2022 #27
This is great writing Richard D Apr 2022 #23
Thank you! H2O Man Apr 2022 #28
As I said before, another truly inspiring OP...a must read. cayugafalls Apr 2022 #29
Thank you! H2O Man Apr 2022 #37
If I had known Rubin lunatica Apr 2022 #31
I remember Rubin often H2O Man Apr 2022 #38
As usual an excellent post! burrowowl Apr 2022 #33
Thanks! H2O Man Apr 2022 #39
...K&R... spanone Apr 2022 #35
Thank you! H2O Man Apr 2022 #40
Carter found a plane few ever reach DFW Apr 2022 #41
I agree 100%. H2O Man Apr 2022 #42

Me.

(35,454 posts)
1. TRuly This Is One Of Your Best
Wed Apr 20, 2022, 09:33 PM
Apr 2022

I found these sentences to be particularly significant...

"how difficult it can be for sane people to navigate in an insane society

That change in their behaviors becomes entrenched, thus explaining why rates of recidivision is so high upon their release. Dysfunction has become ingrained.


When a single piece on a mobile hanging above an infant's crib shifts, the other pieces must also shift. As Rubin changed, he found that those around him changed as well.

It was his belief that human beings were the highest level of unconsciousness of the earth, capable of becoming the earth consciousness"


Your time away has served you well...

edited to put in the forgotten line.

H2O Man

(74,944 posts)
3. Thank you!
Wed Apr 20, 2022, 09:35 PM
Apr 2022

I was never really away -- I was reading DU almost every day, and making a few comments here and there. But mainly I spent time thinking, always dangerous! Ha!

H2O Man

(74,944 posts)
11. Well you know
Wed Apr 20, 2022, 10:08 PM
Apr 2022

I have lived a curious life. But I'm the same as everyone else here. Maybe a little different.

H2O Man

(74,944 posts)
25. Thank you!
Thu Apr 21, 2022, 12:13 AM
Apr 2022

I make an effort to recognize my bad potential and negative behaviors. Generally, that is made easier in the context of my other mentor's thinking, Onondaga Chief Paul Waterman. A life-long friend noted today that I was lucky to know both Rubin and Paul. I said that I think the Universe looked closely at the young me, and determined I required expert mentors.

Mr. Evil

(2,956 posts)
30. Ha Ha! I get it.
Thu Apr 21, 2022, 12:41 AM
Apr 2022

I too, experienced a wayward path during my youth. Then I discovered Dr. Carl Sagan. Never had the pleasure to meet the man but, I've read damn near everything he ever published. Definitely the greatest influence on my way of thinking and how I process the wonders of life and consciousness on this tiny planet.

dweller

(24,573 posts)
2. Bookmarked
Wed Apr 20, 2022, 09:33 PM
Apr 2022

I want to bring this thread up as needed, excellent post 👍

Also pls visit
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216613059#post6

as I believe this thread and that one mesh in ways you may well understand


✌🏻

Docreed2003

(17,538 posts)
5. Beautiful H2O Man...absolutely beautiful
Wed Apr 20, 2022, 09:36 PM
Apr 2022

Your words and the memories and inspiration of your friend are truly needed during this time. Thank you, as always!

H2O Man

(74,944 posts)
8. Oh, thank you!
Wed Apr 20, 2022, 09:44 PM
Apr 2022

I am honored to be able to share some of Rubin's insights here. And glad that you appreciate them.

ggma

(711 posts)
22. You are
Wed Apr 20, 2022, 11:43 PM
Apr 2022

one of the people I read here on DU whenever you posted. I have appreciated everything I've read.

You have lived an amazing life (from the pieces I've read). The wisdom/points of view, have made me think about some stuff and things. Not to respond to, but to contemplate. Several posts from several members I've read lately prompted me to quit lurking and join in. Your writing had something to do with that.
😊
Thanks to you and DU for engaging me. I didn't know how good being a part of this community would be.

ggma

H2O Man

(74,944 posts)
24. That is so nice of you!
Thu Apr 21, 2022, 12:08 AM
Apr 2022

I do try to add things that I think are both interesting and important.

Saoirse9

(3,774 posts)
6. Perfect. More please!
Wed Apr 20, 2022, 09:40 PM
Apr 2022

We all need to learn how to live in an increasingly delusional world without letting hate for the deluded people consume us.

Anger turns into depression and I am firmly in the depressed state with no workable way to climb out of it.

So your OP is waking me up a bit.

Your talent in this area is needed and I am sure you know that.

Help us all turn it around.

Too much to ask?

H2O Man

(74,944 posts)
9. The biggest difference
Wed Apr 20, 2022, 09:56 PM
Apr 2022

between you and I is that I'm a lot older than you, and have thus had more time to think. But you will remember in ancient times -- back when the Plame scandal was a primary focus -- how we thought best when we thought together. As a group. And that is the actual path to not only surviving in a valley ingabited by the Marjorie Taylor Greene Vallows, but transforming society.

The second biggest difference is that I was a better amateur boxer. The third is that you were a much nicer teenager.

Saoirse9

(3,774 posts)
13. A lot older
Wed Apr 20, 2022, 10:15 PM
Apr 2022

2 whole years!

Your mental health experience gives you a lot of practical experience that most of us don’t have.

I was not a nice teenager. Every parent’s nightmare.

We do need to put our heads together. But yours seems to be on straighter than mine.

H2O Man

(74,944 posts)
15. Being a curmudgeon by both age and nature,
Wed Apr 20, 2022, 10:31 PM
Apr 2022

I must say those two years count for something. And even those who liked me when I was a teen say they found me scary.

Now, on a more serious level .... I mentioned that Rubin wasn't talking about "religion" ...... yet he studied many of the world's religions. He referred to Jesus as "the Master," but thought too few people grasped his message. He was most stmpathetic to a branch of Islam. Yet he participated in a Sun Dance with traditional Lakota people, and was fascinated by our discussions on Iroquois philosophy.

Recently, as I am a curmudgeon, I question if there is any value to my writings on this forum. What is the use, if no one is listenin? A circle of Native People, who are not DU members, read and share them, and encourage me to keep going. One lady reminds me not to let my ego/big head get in the way!

H2O Man

(74,944 posts)
26. Thanks!
Thu Apr 21, 2022, 12:16 AM
Apr 2022

In answer to your question, it's most likely the synergy of raging superiority- and inferiority complexes. (grin) It is the curse of the Irish!

Saoirse9

(3,774 posts)
34. I think the people who have good sense are listening
Thu Apr 21, 2022, 09:07 AM
Apr 2022

The ones who just come here to gripe are never going to listen.

Saoirse9

(3,774 posts)
43. As well you shouldn't.
Thu Apr 21, 2022, 05:17 PM
Apr 2022

But I am listening to you because you're *so much older* and I think its the law or something.

H2O Man

(74,944 posts)
44. It must be a
Thu Apr 21, 2022, 05:41 PM
Apr 2022

"New York State federal law," as a person I once debated said. I still think that's hilarious.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
10. Another great one H2O Man.
Wed Apr 20, 2022, 10:01 PM
Apr 2022

I read Frankl's 'Man's Search For Meaning' in high school, about '67 or 8.
My main memory was that people can take many things away from you, your freedom,
but they can't take away the you feel about things. Need to reread it.

H2O Man

(74,944 posts)
12. It's a great book.
Wed Apr 20, 2022, 10:10 PM
Apr 2022

Frankl was an amazing human being. Rubin introduced he to him, and we enjoyed numerous conversations on Franl's books.

H2O Man

(74,944 posts)
16. Thanks!
Wed Apr 20, 2022, 10:38 PM
Apr 2022

It's been a busy day here for me -- though what seems "busy" for me might be a slow day for others. Besides the usual housework and outdoor chores, I again had to deal with some fellow knocking my mailbox over. It has happened a couple times per week in recent times. Yesterday, he damaged not only mine, but two others as he attacked mine. One of my sons recently watched him in action, and so I am planning to go see him to request he find another hobby. This is a much different approach than that I would have taken years ago. To borrow a phrase from Rubin, if I can change, anyone cam.

Martin Eden

(13,273 posts)
20. The most difficult prison is our own mind
Wed Apr 20, 2022, 11:10 PM
Apr 2022

The external pressures Rubin faced drove him to find the key to internal freedom.

H2O Man

(74,944 posts)
27. Exactly!
Thu Apr 21, 2022, 12:21 AM
Apr 2022

Now, those of us who knew him recognized that Rubin could be stubborn -- heck, that's how he survived. Indeed, that same quality helped him to go on that internal journey. After his release, he worked tirelessly in three areas: supporting the legal cases of the wrongly convicted, opposing the death penalty, and speaking to groups of people about the need for vecoming fully conscious.

cayugafalls

(5,739 posts)
29. As I said before, another truly inspiring OP...a must read.
Thu Apr 21, 2022, 12:26 AM
Apr 2022

Thank you for relating this story, truly wise words indeed.

H2O Man

(74,944 posts)
37. Thank you!
Thu Apr 21, 2022, 03:27 PM
Apr 2022

I am pleased with the kind response from you and others here on DU. It has also been shared in two other circles. One is of Native Americans, the other a group of women that extend across the country. They are in the spirit of Mallory McMorrow, the state senator from Michigan who I find inspirational.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
31. If I had known Rubin
Thu Apr 21, 2022, 12:51 AM
Apr 2022

I would have loved him. What a great teacher!

We really are all the same. Broken in some way. At some point in our consciousness we must make a promise that we will do our best to go sane somehow.

Thanks!

H2O Man

(74,944 posts)
38. I remember Rubin often
Thu Apr 21, 2022, 03:30 PM
Apr 2022

saying that with patience, the smallest of creatures can climb the highest of mountains. That we needed to be patient with ourselves, as well as others ..... for we are all sad and weakly human. And that we are born into the exact circumstances that we must overcome in life.

I miss those 3 am calls!

DFW

(56,062 posts)
41. Carter found a plane few ever reach
Thu Apr 21, 2022, 03:59 PM
Apr 2022

I'm skeptical I could have gone through what he did to get there.

H2O Man

(74,944 posts)
42. I agree 100%.
Thu Apr 21, 2022, 04:10 PM
Apr 2022

Rubin undertook an intense journey.

I remember a late night call ..... Rubin was on the other side of the planet, meeting with Nelson Mandela. He told me that the first thing he said to Nelson was, "We made it!"

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