Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

babylonsister

(171,810 posts)
Fri May 6, 2022, 08:08 AM May 2022

If Abortion Is Illegal, Will Every Miscarriage Be a Potential Crime?


3 hours ago
If Abortion Is Illegal, Will Every Miscarriage Be a Potential Crime?
A woman in Oklahoma was recently convicted of manslaughter after having a miscarriage. She likely won’t be the last.
Cecilia Nowell

snip//

There’s another reason this Supreme Court decision could lead to more miscarriage prosecutions: Self-induced abortions and miscarriages—which occur in one in four pregnancies—can look identical. If someone shows up at the hospital and says they’re having a miscarriage, doctors might suspect there is more going on. In other words, pregnancies that don’t result in birth become suspect in places where abortion is outlawed.

That might sound extreme, but consider El Salvador, where abortion is completely banned. More than 140 people, mostly impoverished women living in rural regions, have been incarcerated for illegal abortions—many of whom insist they merely miscarried. In Poland, where a court last year imposed a country-wide, near-total ban on abortion, a new bill proposes requiring doctors to report all pregnancies and miscarriages to a registry controlled and monitored by the government, raising fears it will heighten scrutiny of and prosecutions over pregnancies that don’t end in birth.

If you think that can’t happen in the United States, consider this: In 2019, during a hearing as part of an investigation that threatened to close Missouri’s lone abortion clinic, the head of the state’s department of health testified the office had created a spreadsheet tracking Planned Parenthood abortion patients’ menstrual periods using state medical records. The purpose: To identify people who’d and investigate “failed” abortions—people who had gone in for an abortion but were still pregnant and not getting their period—in an attempt to prove that abortion complications are common (they aren’t). And since the leaked Supreme Court draft, Louisiana has taken the lead in saying what’s coming next, via a bill saying people who get abortions can be charged with homicide.

“There’s no medical way to tell the difference between a miscarriage and a medication abortion. And so the difference between whether someone gets reported isn’t anything medical,” says Rafa Kidvai, who directss the legal defense fund at the reproductive justice group If/When/How. “And that’s obviously about race, about Blackness, about indigeneity, or anyone that feels suspicious.”


more...

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/05/roe-abortion-miscarriage-crime-murder-prosecution/
39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
If Abortion Is Illegal, Will Every Miscarriage Be a Potential Crime? (Original Post) babylonsister May 2022 OP
In the eyes of the RWers . ... Lovie777 May 2022 #1
Apparently, these right wing extremists Haggis 4 Breakfast May 2022 #26
"God will never convict meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" durablend May 2022 #27
Please stop pretending HIPAA is going to help us jmowreader May 2022 #32
HIPPA gives broad authority to law enforcement HighFired49 May 2022 #36
this is why these laws will not go forth..states budgets will be eaten up by defending samnsara May 2022 #2
Yes. Of course. Scrivener7 May 2022 #3
Selective enforcement is a tool of autocracies Walleye May 2022 #4
Every miscarriage except those suffered by good Christian Republican women. tanyev May 2022 #5
Yes. louis-t May 2022 #6
I had the same question in regards to ectopic pregnancies Peacetrain May 2022 #7
Not for middle and upper class white women. SoonerPride May 2022 #8
How strange that the party that hates wnylib May 2022 #13
They need more uneducated workers solara May 2022 #14
Don't count on Middle Class white women getting away without punishment Farmer-Rick May 2022 #19
Yes it's the middle class that votes and votes against their own interests. LakeArenal May 2022 #38
Georgia already has a law allowing prosecution for miscarriages. Lonestarblue May 2022 #9
Short answer: yes. malthaussen May 2022 #10
Depends on the state you're in tirebiter May 2022 #11
They'll do like China did for their one-child policy kskiska May 2022 #12
The short answer is "YES". Martin68 May 2022 #15
And then there's Sarah Palin's strange story ThoughtCriminal May 2022 #16
Yes Nululu May 2022 #17
If they have their way, yes Hekate May 2022 #18
They have no idea how common miscarriages are. Alwaysna May 2022 #20
Let's help them out in their witch hunt! HighFired49 May 2022 #37
By this "logic", God is the worst abortionist criminal of them all. DinahMoeHum May 2022 #21
Of course they will. LiberalFighter May 2022 #22
Based on their logic... shouldn't any semen that does not enter the womb LiberalFighter May 2022 #23
"Spilling of the seed" is a mortal sin. sop May 2022 #25
Like many other laws, it will be overpoliced in certain neighborhoods, and selectively enforced. sop May 2022 #24
Intercourse RayStar May 2022 #28
That would be a yes dlk May 2022 #29
I have a friend on the nursing faculty at TCU yellowdogintexas May 2022 #30
I suppose so. Will doctors have to fill out tons of paperwork Emile May 2022 #31
Yellow tape around the house of a miscarriage. JohnnyRingo May 2022 #33
Yes, and since God performs them he is responsibe. marie999 May 2022 #34
Seatbelts Smackdown2019 May 2022 #35
If abortion becomes illegal DFW May 2022 #39

Haggis 4 Breakfast

(1,456 posts)
26. Apparently, these right wing extremists
Fri May 6, 2022, 05:16 PM
May 2022

have never read the HIPPA law. Disclosing the private medical information of anyone without their written consent is illegal. Anyone who violates this law can be tried and convicted. Let that sink in.

If police can have murder cases overturned on technicalities, then HIPPA is the law ALL health care providers must uphold.

jmowreader

(51,842 posts)
32. Please stop pretending HIPAA is going to help us
Sat May 7, 2022, 04:23 AM
May 2022

If Trump gets back in and has a Republican Congress to back him up, the first two things they will do are to kill the filibuster and exempt abortion-related requests from HIPAA protection.

HIPAA will help us now, but when the evangelicals take over the country they'll end that quickly.

samnsara

(18,385 posts)
2. this is why these laws will not go forth..states budgets will be eaten up by defending
Fri May 6, 2022, 08:11 AM
May 2022

..lawsuits..

we will make sure of that...

Peacetrain

(23,725 posts)
7. I had the same question in regards to ectopic pregnancies
Fri May 6, 2022, 09:13 AM
May 2022
https://democraticunderground.com/100216650975


and yes a stem can develop in the fallopian tubes and have a heartbeat..


Over 100,000 ectopic pregnancies' a year in the US..


We have entered a very scary place for women...

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
8. Not for middle and upper class white women.
Fri May 6, 2022, 09:16 AM
May 2022

But for poor white, and all brown and black women of all economic strata, yes.

wnylib

(25,183 posts)
13. How strange that the party that hates
Fri May 6, 2022, 09:43 AM
May 2022

people who are not White wants to increase their numbers by denying abortion access to them.

solara

(3,876 posts)
14. They need more uneducated workers
Fri May 6, 2022, 09:53 AM
May 2022

They sure don't want to use white folks for dirty & difficult labor.. so they make sure there are plenty of protected non-white embryos who will eventually grow into stupid very cheap laborers, because of course they won't educate them, either.

By the way, Rape, sexual slavery, and related actions including forced pregnancy, are now recognized under the Geneva Convention as crimes against humanity and war crimes; #ForcedBirthIsFascism Too cynical?

Just sayin'

Farmer-Rick

(11,645 posts)
19. Don't count on Middle Class white women getting away without punishment
Fri May 6, 2022, 01:18 PM
May 2022

The filthy rich always get away with ignoring any law that annoys them, but not so the Middle Class.

Before Roe v Wade, middle class white women were a target of all the same abusive laws men can throw at women.

My female friends were all middle class and most of them were white. They all faced the same repurcussions for daring to have sex as poorer women did. Many of them had no access to money and transportation without going through their very controlling religious families. Pregnancy hung over their heads like the sword of Damocles, ready to ruin their lives forever if they slipped up.

LakeArenal

(29,935 posts)
38. Yes it's the middle class that votes and votes against their own interests.
Sun May 8, 2022, 11:23 AM
May 2022

Poor people don’t vote. They can’t get off work, stand in long lines to get to the polls. Republicans are busy limiting access to polls in poor locations.

Lonestarblue

(12,226 posts)
9. Georgia already has a law allowing prosecution for miscarriages.
Fri May 6, 2022, 09:16 AM
May 2022

The determination to prosecute is based on the woman being “responsible” for the miscarriage, but it is usually impossible to determine what causes a miscarriage. Successful prosecutions could send women to jail for 10 to 30 years. This law is nothing more than a license for local prosecutors to target specific women (i.e., non-Republicans and non-white), and it will be replicated by other red states if Roe is overturned.

“In order to determine if a woman is "responsible" for her miscarriage, Georgia prosecutors would be allowed to investigate. Drug and alcohol use during pregnancy have been cited by policy experts as ways a woman could potentially be held responsible for her miscarriage under the bill.

Between 10% and 25% of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Despite this, the medical community has been unable to pinpoint exactly what causes miscarriages, especially those that occur during a woman's first-trimester.“

https://www.insider.com/misguided-science-behind-georgias-abortion-miscarriage-law-2019-5

malthaussen

(17,923 posts)
10. Short answer: yes.
Fri May 6, 2022, 09:25 AM
May 2022

The GOP has decided to rule by terror. Pregnancy gives them a golden opportunity to terrorize women, and that's half the voters right there. They're banking on the terrorized being more numerous than the outraged. They may have a surprise coming.

-- Mal

kskiska

(27,125 posts)
12. They'll do like China did for their one-child policy
Fri May 6, 2022, 09:33 AM
May 2022

Each neighborhood would be appointed a "granny" who'll visit each family and find out who's pregnant, but rather than forcing abortion, they'd personally force the birth of each and every pregnant woman's child.

ThoughtCriminal

(14,419 posts)
16. And then there's Sarah Palin's strange story
Fri May 6, 2022, 11:08 AM
May 2022
https://www.businessinsider.com/scharlott-sarah-palin-trig-hoax-2011-9

"Why would Sarah Palin, thinking her amniotic sac might have ruptured, wait more than 20 hours to seek medical attention, thus putting the life of her baby at risk?
Why would Sarah Palin, after the onset of contractions, board an airplane for a 3,000 mile trip?"

The rumors were that Sarah Palin's pregnancy was fake and Trig was actually her daughter's child, but I always suspected that the baby really was Sarah's and she was hoping that Trig would not survive birth.




Alwaysna

(577 posts)
20. They have no idea how common miscarriages are.
Fri May 6, 2022, 02:39 PM
May 2022

Until of the availability of the home pregnancy tests, women didn't know they were pregnant when they experienced a late but heavy period.
Approximately 26% of known pregnancies end in miscarriage .
This is truly a witch hunt!!!!

HighFired49

(399 posts)
37. Let's help them out in their witch hunt!
Sat May 7, 2022, 03:09 PM
May 2022

If they want to arrest women for having "aborted" fetuses i.e. miscarriages, lets start sending to the Health Depts., police, district attys., courts, or whatever enforcement agency they choose, all of our used tampons, and pads, etc. so that they can check them out. What ya wanta bet they back off of that stupid idea really fast?

While I'm on the subject of helping, I also think that if the State is going to force women to have children, the State should be responsible for them, and have to at least pay child support, and maybe college tuition, etc. Either that, or have completely no-fault orphanages, or state institutions. We'll see how long that lasts when the system is overrun in a few months. Yeah! Back to the '50s! (1850's)

I haven't read or heard of, in any of the state laws (haven't read all of them yet) any reference to to the responsibility of men in causing unwanted pregnancies. I guess that's because this is all about controlling women. Make the men take the offspring, or pay for them, and i'll bet this entire bullshit Roe decision gets reversed asap. I'm really just kidding about giving children to men who don't want them, but the very thought of the repercussions of having to take on an unwanted child should scare crap outa lots of lawmakers and judges, especially if it isn't their wife's. It's really too bad that the results of this stupid and ignorant decision won't be felt equally. Everybody just gets to walk away, except for the women who have to give birth and suffer all of the consequences for years. Ultimately though, many children will suffer, also.

DinahMoeHum

(22,657 posts)
21. By this "logic", God is the worst abortionist criminal of them all.
Fri May 6, 2022, 03:29 PM
May 2022

Many of these miscarriages occur naturally, without drug inducement, ie.by Nature/God.


", , ,hey, he made us to be just like Him / so if we're dumb / then God is dumb / and maybe ugly on the side. . ." - Frank Zappa / Dumb All Over

sop

(12,514 posts)
24. Like many other laws, it will be overpoliced in certain neighborhoods, and selectively enforced.
Fri May 6, 2022, 04:01 PM
May 2022

We've gone from the War on Drugs to the War on Abortion; "Just say no to abortion" will be the new slogan of the forced birthers. The intended victims will be the same, and the devastation to communities of color will be similar.

dlk

(12,557 posts)
29. That would be a yes
Fri May 6, 2022, 08:53 PM
May 2022

Republicans will be monitoring menstrual cycles, like they already have in Texas, with girls as young as 12 who are immigration detainees. The fascists are just getting warmed up.

yellowdogintexas

(23,012 posts)
30. I have a friend on the nursing faculty at TCU
Fri May 6, 2022, 10:32 PM
May 2022

Her rotation is OB/Gym. Her husband came to a party without her and he told us she was too depressed to go out and have fun because she had delivered a 10 year old.

Another friend was director of The Rape Crisis Center in Ft Worth. She has many stories. but the worst one was the mom who came home sick from work to find her husband raping her 12 year old daughter. Turn out it had been going on since the kid was 9. She had never had a period, because she got pregnant on her first period. The mom did take the child for an abortion, thankfully.

Nearly as bad was the friend's sister, who got pregnant at 16. This was before Roe, so the mom and daughter traveled to Mexico City. The procedure was in a doctor's office, under sterile conditions. However the doctor raped her when he did the pre op examination.

This is what young women have to look forward to now. We have time traveled back to the 1960s.

JohnnyRingo

(19,629 posts)
33. Yellow tape around the house of a miscarriage.
Sat May 7, 2022, 09:29 AM
May 2022

Like it wasn't traumatic enough of an experience, add some CSI drama to it, because until the "murder" is investigated we won't know for sure.

Of course they won't do that. What are they, zealots? "Yes"

 

marie999

(3,334 posts)
34. Yes, and since God performs them he is responsibe.
Sat May 7, 2022, 09:57 AM
May 2022

He can't be tried because he can't be served. Charge the person in charge of each house of God for every miscarriage.

Smackdown2019

(1,274 posts)
35. Seatbelts
Sat May 7, 2022, 10:06 AM
May 2022

If that is the case, seatbelts, car accidents, bumb in grocery lines, husband hugging, wearing clothes, horn blowing, loud music and listening to Trump spill lies should all be potential cases of miscarriages... especially the stress of Trump Lies.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»If Abortion Is Illegal, W...