Marlon Brando's Ear-Piece

[H2O Man]

I do not tend to follow celebrity break-ups. In part, this is because I do not tend to follow celebrities at all. I recognized the name Johnny Depp, and my son assured me that I've seen two movies he was in. But he wasn't in the lead role in either. I had never heard of Amber Heard, so far as I know, until her break-up with Depp.

A step-nephew thinks I'm odd, because I haven't read fiction since high school, and am not interested in many movies. I read non-fiction and watch the news, documentaries, police interrogations, court cases, and congressional investigations. Thank goodness for Youtube. The young man said this ignores the values of "the classics" ..... and I say I only have so much time on earth, and can't possibly read or watch everything. Thus, I focus on what I like best.

One might trace this to my experiencing generational trauma when the Beatles broke up. But that isn't accurate. After the initial shock, I thought some really great music came about, including the above song from John's album "Imagine." As we all know, John and Paul engaged in some of the harsher behaviors associated with break-ups, in interviews, album covers (and the post card in the original "Imagine" LP(, and songs.

While this song had a powerful group of musicians backing John, it's interesting to note that one guy there on that day opted not to play. Ringo heard a version of this song, and said, "That's enough, John," and left. Later, John would note that when celebrities mess up, it is often on "the red carpet." And that is how I view the Depp vs Heard trial.

I am not viewing parts of the trial because I have any interest in the outcome. I don't find myself "taking sides" as I watch. I assume both have -- like most people -- a good and a bad side. I respect acting as an art, though one where actors often pretend to be fictional characters. Thus, I recognize the possibility that both might at least try to put their acting skills to good use on the witness stand.

What I find interesting is the lawyers on both sides, and how the judge responds to objections. I think that both sides have high quality legal representation. I thought that the cross-examination of Ms. Heard by Camille Vasquez was intense. Very impressive. But the most entertaining part thus far was the cross-examination of Dr. Spiegel by Wayne Dennison.

Is anyone else here watching the trial? Or am I a freak of sorts, watching this? In my defense, a friend recently told me he has started watching trials after visiting me, and has told other friends to do the same. More, he got me watching this one. If anyone else does watch, I'm curious of what your impressions of Spiegel was on cross?

As a social worker, I had to testify in court more times than I can remember. My uncle, a Senior Investigator in the NYS BCI, told me to never let a lawyer get under your skin, and make you angry. And never, ever try to debate an attorney, because in the context of a court room, you will lose every time.

[Me.]

1. Strangely, I Saw His Testimony Today

As I am in quarantine (no, it's not been any worse than a bad cold. I stay in out of respect and care for others) anyway, I didn't care for the doc very much and I don't think he helped Amber Heard much. I found his testimony boring, though purposefully humiliating in parts of Johnny Depp. I also thought that for a professional witness he took a great deal of umbrage towards some of the questions. Big ego, thin skin and I feel he tried very hard to make his so called expertise fit the facts.

[H2O Man]

3. I found his

frequent claim on cross that Depp's attorney's position that he violated the Goldwater rule equals the utter destruction of "expert witnesses" on psychology obnoxious. He was the only one saying that.

Also, his focus on Cluster B features surely backfired. With no disrespect for Ms. Heard, the two Cluster B diagnoses that she carries were obvious when she testified.

[Me.]

8. Essentially We Agree Though Your Response Sounds Professional

[H2O Man]

9. Agreed!

It's funny in an odd way: when Darren & I were on the four hour drive to Buffalo on 5-14, although we were not discussing this trial, we did talk about the risk factors in the Cluster B personality disorders for potential violent behaviors. I suppose that in a healthy society, this trial could produce meaningful conversations on that. A person need not work in the mental health field to pick up on the glaring dynamics in their relationship. Their personality quirks, which likely seemed appealing at first, ended up feeding upon the other's.

[Me.]

10. ...

[Demsrule86]

5. I have followed the trial...I have to say...it looks like Amber Heard set Depp up...

he has substance abuse problems no doubt but I don't believe she was abused. There is a witness who will testify that heard's sister told her (she and Amber were fighting and 'sis' had moved out) that she thought Amber was going to kill Johnny. ...on her way to getting her restraining order she alerted TMZ. I don't find her credible.

[Me.]

7. That Has A Feel Of Being Right To Me

[Demsrule86]

15. Fair is fair...and I don't want to see the Me Too movement used in this fashion.

[Me.]

16. His Expert I Holding Up Well Under Cross

[H2O Man]

11. I try to keep

in mind the words of the ancient philosopher Confucius, when asked what he would do if granted total power: "Insist that people use words correctly." Let's start with "domestic," in the context of domestic abuse. Domestic means within a household; hence, while violence between adult partners is an extremely important issue, deserving of our attention, it is but one type of domestic violence.

There are three general types of abuse: emotional, physical, and sexual. They are found in every social-economic level. And they create a cycle quite frequently, although not always. Likewise, a person who was not abused as a child can indeed become a violent shithead. In my work with domestic violence in the decade before I was employed at the mental health clinic, I worked in a large county where the majority of reported & documented domestic abuse involved single mothers beating one or more of their children. In the many, many cases I worked on, those mothers carried diagnoses that have been given to Ms. Heard, and the absent fathers tended to carry an anti-social personality disorder. This, in my opinion, is not a coincidence.

Without any statistics to support me on this, I suspect that there is a comorbidity between a female with borderline PD and the male partner having increased substance use & abuse. In the cases I'm basing this on, this dynamic took place after the initial honeymoon period, where everything is wonderful. I in no way intend for this to excuse substance abuse, and the rather unattractive behaviors associated with it. Rather, it is an important dynamic in the relationship.

"Expert witnesses" often site different studies and statistics on DV. I found one that considered reported/ documented cases Albany County, NY, to be of value. It was found that cases were pretty evenly split: one-third were male batterers, one-third were female batters, and one-third involved co-battering (not to be mistaken for an attempt to fight back to protect one's self from attack). That was from the 1980s and '90s. At the same general time, there was a new model that I attended a three-day training for.

Known as the Deluth model (also, the Pence model, after it was developed primarily by self-identified feminist Ellen Pence), the model had real value. I enjoyed participating in the numerous discussions. However, it had one very serious flaw: Ms. Pence insisted that domestic violence was only defined by male violence. Hence, I asked about a case where the State Troopers had requested I accompany them on the week before. There, they arrested a woman for assaulting her lesbian partner. If not domestic violence, what might this be called in the Deluth model? The lead presenter ignored my sincere question, while the other presenter later thanked me on a break.

In my opinion, we are unlikely to get this country on a good path until we deal with domestic violence of all types.

[prodigitalson]

2. The Spiegel cross is one of the funniest things I have ever seen.

Must see TV

[H2O Man]

4. You couldn't make it up.

I must confess that after a day's yard & garden work, I had taken a couple hits off a joint that a friend gave me. So I had extreme difficulty in identifying if it was a SNL skit. When one of my sons stopped in, I demanded he watch some of the highlights with me. Although he was not laughing as hard as I was, he did ask, "Why did her team put this guy on the witness stand?"

[Demsrule86]

6. Really that guy was an ass...I think the Heard legal team is outclassed but hubs

says when you have a bad client, it can make you look bad.

[H2O Man]

12. Right.

In this case, it may come down to which client is more flawed.

[Demsrule86]

13. True that...I am at home caring for hubs who had surgery...so I have watched it...

I really think Depp was abused. Those tapes of her admitting to hitting him but not punching him were chilling...no one will believe you...

[H2O Man]

17. I agree.

It appears that she has a rather low level of ability to resolve conflict. I would wager that if each were asked, they would be able to identify fights repeating, in the same general sequence, over and over. Since I do not think of yelling, hurling insults, and engaging in physical violence actual resolution, that cycle would only gather strength, and increase the yelling, insulting, and physical violence.

[Demsrule86]

14. It was hilarious.

[H2O Man]

18. Like, it was odd.

I couldn't take my eyes & ears off it. Why didn't Heard's team recognize this guy was too risky to put on the witness stand?

Just speculation upon my part, but I think this might be the last "big case" the guy gets hired on.

[Demsrule86]

19. Very odd...I would say a train wreck ...I bet the jury hated him.