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ck4829

(34,905 posts)
Wed May 25, 2022, 04:10 PM May 2022

I'm sorry, but I think the "victory" in the Cold War looks increasingly meaningless by the day

You've got a country that:
* Oppresses its own people
* Deals in terror against its neighbors
* Has a nuclear arsenal with a madman at the button
* Kills dissidents in other countries

And then you've got Kissinger saying that Ukraine needs to cede land to Russia and that we shouldn't be trying to humiliate the Kremlin.

I mean, to me, they sound just like the USSR, except, you know, not communist.

I get it; the west wants to save face, many conservatives want to preserve Reagan's legacy that according to them he was the one who struck the killing blow to the USSR, and Kissinger and others may want to justify the breathtaking human and civil rights abuses our country perpetrated in Latin America, Africa, and Asia and that the ends justified the means...

But it's time to face a hard and brutal fact:

The "victory" in the Cold War gave us an even more dangerous Russia... except, you know, not communist.

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I'm sorry, but I think the "victory" in the Cold War looks increasingly meaningless by the day (Original Post) ck4829 May 2022 OP
When the GOP handed over half the US congress to Putin, we lost the Cold War. Irish_Dem May 2022 #1
YEP Cosmocat May 2022 #12
In return the GOP was funded by Putin who helped them "win" elections. Irish_Dem May 2022 #13
Kissinger - wrong in the 60's, wrong in the 70's, and wrong now. Bad track record. SharonAnn May 2022 #2
The Cold War was never about ending dictators or authoritarians.... TheRealNorth May 2022 #3
Bingo... regnaD kciN May 2022 #6
That is accurate. Caliman73 May 2022 #11
Considering our "defense" budget, I agree n/t hibbing May 2022 #4
The USSR was sane compared to Putin lapfog_1 May 2022 #5
It was saner due to a more of a mix of ethnicities, IMO. roamer65 May 2022 #7
I think it was more the ruling class in the USSR lapfog_1 May 2022 #8
"Victory" in quotes, exactly the problem BeyondGeography May 2022 #9
There was a brief, fleeting moment of real opportunity for Russia. Tommy Carcetti May 2022 #10
Nobody Won The Cold War ProfessorGAC May 2022 #14

Irish_Dem

(45,215 posts)
13. In return the GOP was funded by Putin who helped them "win" elections.
Wed May 25, 2022, 05:08 PM
May 2022

And they got lessons on how to get what Putin has.
Total permanent power, control, access to all US financial assets.

And the MAGAs get white christian minority rule.

TheRealNorth

(9,425 posts)
3. The Cold War was never about ending dictators or authoritarians....
Wed May 25, 2022, 04:22 PM
May 2022

It was all about protecting capitalism.

Caliman73

(11,666 posts)
11. That is accurate.
Wed May 25, 2022, 04:56 PM
May 2022

We got into bed with some pretty horrific dictators and authoritarians before, during, and after the Cold War. All in the name of allowing corporations to have access to markets or to operate as they desired.

Capitalism has trumped democracy throughout a lot of American History.

roamer65

(36,738 posts)
7. It was saner due to a more of a mix of ethnicities, IMO.
Wed May 25, 2022, 04:37 PM
May 2022

Ukrainian, Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Belarusian, Russian, etc, etc.

lapfog_1

(29,147 posts)
8. I think it was more the ruling class in the USSR
Wed May 25, 2022, 04:43 PM
May 2022

need for self preservation, they never wanted to see another dictator like Stalin.

That is, until Putin came along.

BeyondGeography

(39,226 posts)
9. "Victory" in quotes, exactly the problem
Wed May 25, 2022, 04:48 PM
May 2022

When it comes to Russia. Real wars have real surrenders after much death. Putin never accepted the geopolitical “verdict” of the Cold War. Russia won’t go down without a fight, per him, and being the Tsar, he is the only person who matters.

That’s why Putin needs to be defeated, to make the verdict of the Cold War real. Or so one would think.

Putin picked up on hatreds he shares with the right, he gets points for that, but he has so far been unable to fully exploit them. His problem is Russia craves our power position in the world without doing the boring but necessary work to attain it.

What do we have? The very things that the Republican Party is trying to destroy. Democracy, meritocracy, the rule of law, free and fair elections, strong institutions, freedom of information.

By invading Ukraine and showing just how amoral and hollowed out kleptocratic Russia has become, Putin woke up the West, or at least that portion of it that is committed to free and open societies. There’s only one thing that can save him now: the Republican Party and its quest to destroy American liberal democracy. They want what Putin has: a license to steal with impunity, crush opponents, and full legal and political unaccountability. The Cold War will indeed turn out to be meaningless if they win.

Tommy Carcetti

(43,053 posts)
10. There was a brief, fleeting moment of real opportunity for Russia.
Wed May 25, 2022, 04:49 PM
May 2022

When Boris Yeltsin first considered stepping aside as President in the late 90s, he originally considered advocating for Boris Nemtsov as his successor.

Nemtsov was a true reformer, advocate against corruption and as good a hope as you could think of for a free and democratic Russia.

Instead, Yeltsin was persuaded to go with Vladimir Putin instead.

And then, a decade and a half later, Putin murdered Nemtsov on the streets of Moscow.

ProfessorGAC

(64,184 posts)
14. Nobody Won The Cold War
Wed May 25, 2022, 05:21 PM
May 2022

One side imploded, as was expected by nearly every economist not at U of C, Heartland, or Cato.
The USSR was an economic pipsqueak with a pathetically low per capita GDP. Just like Russia, now.
There were economic winners, like the entire defense industry. But, they didn't go away after the Soviet bloc fell. So, they would have been winners anyway.

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