Please stop using the term 'pro life'.

[Voltaire2]

Their actual position is ‘forced birth’. They most certainly are not pro life.

Reject their framing. Change the terms of the discussion.

[onecaliberal]

1. Exactly. Entirely too much evidence to the contrary.

[Magoo48]

18. Anti women, pro birth.

[onecaliberal]

19. Anti women, forced birth.

[Magoo48]

22. Better yet.

[wnylib]

40. I've been calling them anti choice for years.

While we're at it, we could also drop the phrase "late term abortion."

[Lasher]

79. Anti-abortion.

That's how they were initially described, if memory serves. And that label is still being used today. Back in the day, GOP word merchants didn't like the negativity that was projected, so they reframed it to pro-life. Much better, they are in favor of life. Who could oppose such a thing?

Anti-abortion works best for me. Because that's just what they are.

[Greybnk48]

2. They've NEVER been "pro-life." That's think tank code for female oppression.

The terms "pro-life" and "conservative" are like baby Bush calling his environmental policy the "Blue Skies" initiative.

It's 1984 bullshit "doublespeak" to brainwash people to believe "doublethink."

[ariadne0614]

83. +1 n/t

[sop]

91. Remember "compassionate conservatism"?

[FM123]

3. Yep. Reject their framing.

They are not pro-life they are anti-choice.

[Leith]

6. Worse than that

they are forced birthers and proud of it.

[housecat]

11. I like that. Anti-choice covers just about everything

[Farmer-Rick]

52. They see themselves as pro choice

They allow some people sometimes to make choices like wearing masks and not getting vaccinated. It's fine for men to choose sex, just not women.

I think using anti-choice makes us sound like we forgot about mask wearing and vaccines. That we don't know men can choose sex. They think women do have a choice to get pregnant or not to get pregnant. That once pregnant you are done having choices.

Even though we all know consent to have sex is not consent to get pregnant or to stay pregnant, they think having sex should have as painful of repercussions for women as is possible. But it's fine for men to have sex with as many females as possible. Just like the ancient goat herders with their 20 wives. But women need to suffer and possibly die for having sex.

I think forced birth is a more accurate description. They want every one of those tiny embryos implanted in a uterus to go thru to birth. It doesn't matter what awful things may befall the mother or the fetus. It doesn't even matter, in some states, if the mother alone or the mother and fetus will die.

Each human embryo must be allowed to go through to birth no matter who dies. That embryo has special magical rights to use another person's body without their consent. The woman has no rights once that egg is fertilized. That is forced birth.

[ZZenith]

72. Exactly right.

[BlackSkimmer]

4. This, k and r.

[temporary311]

5. Yeah, its amazing how many people insist

on always using the right wing framing. When you do that, you've already lost.

[Celerity]

7. +10000000000000000

[Maraya1969]

8. Especially considering that most of them value their guns more than anything, including a fetus

And they think the death penalty is OK.

I wonder how one of them would answer this: "If it could be guaranteed that no more abortions ever happened if you give up all your guns would you do it?"


I bet there would be a big pause followed by "ems" and "ers" and then some explanation as to why they would keep their guns.

[Emile]

9. Forced Birth or Pro Choice

I like it!

[SilasSouleII]

12. Like it too

+1

[Martin Eden]

10. I can't stop using it, because I never do.

Women will DIE as a result of anti-abortion laws.

Isn't enough that people are already dying as a result of Republican policies on guns, policing, healthcare, and the environment?

More like a death cult than pro-life, including the death of our democracy at the hands of Christo-fascists.

[ancianita]

13. Agree. I use "anti-woman" instead.

[DFW]

14. I NEVER used that term

They are for killing women when it's a question of saving them or forbidding an abortion.
They are invariably for killing animals and eating them
They are invariably in favor of the death penalty
They habitually quote passages from their bible where their deity kills people for not doing exactly what THEY want.

They are "pro-life" like they are "pro-shark bite."

[GB_RN]

16. They Might Actually Be "Pro-Shark Bite"...

Depending on who they’re talking about. You know, like a high-profile Democrat, or abortion provider, etc.

[DFW]

35. That would still be more Republican pro-death n/t

[Bernardo de La Paz]

15. Birth slavery works too. Cattle & slaves have their birthing controlled. CON mistresses, not so much

[EmmaLee E]

50. But "Forced Birthers" has a better ring to it than "birth slavers."

[ShazzieB]

66. I agree.

I think it says everything that needs to be said, really.

[BadgerMom]

17. K & R

I stopped using their term—a lie—some time ago.

[mrsadm]

20. Absolutely, K&R

[gristy]

21. Forced birth is what I use now.

I had used anti-abortion for years. "Pro life" has not been by folks on this board since, well, forever.

[DickKessler]

23. Is "misogynistic assholes" a better term?

[Sky Jewels]

26. Yes.

Yes it is.

[ypsiguy]

24. "Government mandated birth"

Now there's a term that would send the Qanon types reeling.

[MiHale]

28. In my view that's number one...

Or for individual’s add an “er” at the end of birth.

[Sky Jewels]

25. THANK YOU

I can't believe some progressives still use that bullshit framing.

[Gore1FL]

27. I'll take it a step further. The beginning of life has nothing to do with any of this.

Life on earth began over 3.5 Billion years ago. It hasn't started or stopped since. The argument is when an individual begins. Making it "life" simply pollutes the discussion with hyperbole.

[ShazzieB]

69. Oh, this is an EXCELLENT point!

It makes an end run about all those pointless diatribes about "when life begins" and gets right to what really matters.

I've never really understood the whole obsession with pinpointing the so-called beginning of life anyway. Maybe it's because I wasn't raised in a faith tradition where that was emphasized (or really made an issue of at all, really). But for whatever reason, when anti-choicers start pontificating on how a set of unique human DNA is present from conception onwards, my reaction has always been, "Yeah, so...?"

To me, that has always seemed neither here nor there in terms of whether abortion should be legal. I just don't get it. And yet, it seems to be such a HUGE bfd to some people. I. Don't. Get. It.

[JohnnyRingo]

29. But if we call them "anti abortion"

Then we would be pro abortion.
That sounds a bit unsavory.

[mwooldri]

33. I don't think anyone is really "pro abortion".

Like anyone would on purpose go get pregnant and then wait a while and go terminate that pregnancy by choice.

So you're right IMO. It is unsavoury.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

42. I am pro-abortion.

[Voltaire2]

43. I'm completely pro abortion.

It is incredibly safe and effective.

[mwooldri]

75. "want" Vs "need"

Sorry, may have not made myself 1,000,000,000 % clear.

In terms of the procedure itself, yes effective and safe. In terms of whether this medical procedure should be available to all who need it, again yes. I suppose in this sense I'm "pro abortion". Abortion is a medical procedure, the decision of which should be between patient and doctor. Politicians should butt out.

I've tried to think of an analogy here that makes sense, but I'm not the most eloquent of people around... I'll try anyway - so the best I came up with is "want" Vs "need". I don't think anyone wants an abortion, but people who need an abortion want to be able to get one. People who need an abortion fall into two camps - unwanted pregnancy and wanted pregnancies that aren't viable or would kill the patient. Those who didn't want to get pregnant certainly didn't want to have to have an abortion. But they need it for ... well none of my business but they need it. Those who have an ectopic pregnancy, a non viable foetus, or whatever certainly didn't want to end their pregnancy but they need to for xyz reason.

So in the fight against the anti abortion lobby, it's all about messaging. The anti abortion lobby have to be honest been pretty successful in pushing their message. They have certainly turned "pro abortion" into a negative message of "baby killing" - which abortion is not (and besides baby killing is against the law). They also hijacked the term "pro life" quite successfully.

As I said I'm not the best with words. But I know "pro abortion" isn't a winning message. "Pro Choice" is better. In my mind the "pro abortion" people (pro as in having the ability to receive this vital medical care) are the true pro life people - after all pregnancy and abortion is a complicated health issue that needs expert help and the choice between patient and doctor results in a better life for the patient. Denying access to certain medical procedures that would result in a better life outcome is not in my mind pro life.

This dirty old trucker will probably stew over this for the next few days (or longer)... I want to do something but not much I can do.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

88. Worrying about "want" vs. "need" invites rhetoric of "worthy/unworthy" abortions, and is

unacceptable.

I don't think anyone wants an abortion,

People definitely want abortions. It's like wanting gall-bladder surgery when you're having a gallstone attack. You want what will give you relief.

But I know "pro abortion" isn't a winning message. "Pro Choice" is better.

The larger abortion rights movement has moved away from "pro-choice" because people don't have a choice when access is limited, whether by distance, laws, resources, whatever. The movement has adopted more "pro abortion" language to eliminate the stigma around the very word "abortion."

I want to do something but not much I can do.

One of the most helpful things you can do is donate to an abortion fund; even a small donation like $5 makes a huge difference to people trying to access abortions. Abortion funds help people pay for an abortion, as well as the travel, childcare or lodging that they might need when getting an abortion. It's a great way to help people directly.

[Mr.Bill]

34. One can be personally anti-abortion

and also be pro-choice in regards to others.

[BlueBloodedAmerican]

45. I agree with you completely.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

41. Pro-abortion is now the updated language used within the movement, so saying anti-abortion is also

fine.

[Celerity]

68. they are forced birth

[DooverBeliever]

30. also "anti-choice" or "anti-abortion"

This issue is about the freedom to decide.

Discussion Phrases:
Protect people’s freedom to decide
My decision for my life, your decision for yours
Ensure people have the power to decide
Respect women’s decisions


And --
Politicians should not be making laws, this decision is between a person, their family, and their doctor. One-size-fits-all laws simply don’t work when people are making personal medical decisions, such as the decision to have an abortion.

[Mr.Bill]

31. My sarcastic term for it is

forced concealed carry.

[Lonestarblue]

32. The right wing is hung up on individual freedom--no masks, no vaccines, no mandatea.

All are government tyranny, yet taking away a woman’s right to make her own medical decisions is not tyranny by the government. These people are not only for ed birthers, they are anti freedom. How do they justify that with their claim to individual freedom for themselves?

[Carlitos Brigante]

36. Sure as shit ain't about to start now. nt

[OMGWTF]

37. Just a reminder that DEAD people have more rights than a living woman in many states.

You have to give written consent for anyone else to use your dead body.

[2naSalit]

38. Also...

Instead of saying "Because she wanted one" about abortions, I think it is better to say, "Because she CHOSE to have one".
That statement works both ways, hard to argue about it. Choice is choice whether motivated by want or need, it's a choice.

[calimary]

39. I always used "anti -choice."

But “forced birth” is good, too.

What’s best of all is that people on our side are THINKING on this. And coming up with useful MESSAGING.

Messaging is EVERYTHING!!!

THAT’S how you influence and manage public opinion.

[FakeNoose]

44. I prefer to call them "anti-choice"

But I agree that "pro-life" has always been incorrect, and an obfuscation besides.

George Orwell saw today's Repuke Party evolving almost 80 years ago. (Animal Farm was published in 1945.)

[Voltaire2]

49. I'm starting to dislike anti-choice as it doesn't

really get to the heart of the matter. They are literally forcing women to give birth, and in some states that includes dying in the process.

Forced birth puts the issue right into perspective.

[barbtries]

46. this is one of my little campaigns

for a few years now. i have been begging people not to concede this to the misogynistic fascists, ever. Thank you for the thread.

[ananda]

47. They've never forgiven Eve for giving the apple to Adam.

They are all some sick bastards!

[lindysalsagal]

60. Funny, how the men who wrote that story found their female scapegoat in the very first chapter....

[Pacifist Patriot]

48. I tend to use "anti-choice" and "anti-women." I don't think...

some of them care if there is a birth or not. At least not if you look at that ridiculous proposed NC law. They seem perfectly content for women to die without giving birth so "forced birth" doesn't quite cover it either.

[Voltaire2]

51. Well I disagree. Forced birth correctly frames

the issue as the state compelling women to give birth even if it kills them. This is not about some individual nebulous ‘choice’, it is about compulsion and complete indifference to the circumstances.

[Pacifist Patriot]

53. Fair enough

[themaguffin]

54. They are also not "Christian." At. All.

[Progressive dog]

55. Agreed

"Forced birth" is much closer to truth.

[mopinko]

56. i call them slavers.

and thank ja i live in a free state.

[Mysterian]

57. Thank you!

So true.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. ANTI CHOICE

[Voltaire2]

61. It's weak.

This is no longer about ‘choice’, it is about saving people from compulsory pregnancy and birth.

[Wounded Bear]

59. I definitely tend to avoid that erroneous term...

Forced birth works for me.

Anti-abortionists works too.

[aocommunalpunch]

62. Pre-life. n/t

[BigmanPigman]

63. Pro Death....

is more like it. Death for the women and death for the children (after they are forced to be born and then are shot dead at school). The Pro Death Party.

They want to kill through any means possible...no affordable health insur., unhealthy climate, poor working conditions, no $$ for food, etc. Pro Death all the way.

[AdamGG]

64. As George Carlin said, they're not pro-life, they're anti-woman

[ShazzieB]

65. Hard agree.

I never, ever call them that, and if I ever did, it was long before I was active at DU, so long ago that I can't ever remember. I usually call them forced birthers, but I'm also okay with calling their stance anti-choice or anti'abortion.

The main thing is NOT to call them by the label they invented for themselves. The ONLY reason they call themselves "pro life" is to imply that everybody else is "pro death. That is a deliberate insult to anyone who doesn't share their beliefs, and it's rude and disrespectful as well as wildly inaccurate.

Any time we use that term, we are pandering to them AND appearing to give lip service to their claim that they are the only ones who care about "life." They do NOT deserve that, and we should NEVER give it to them.

[Celerity]

67. kick

[Lithos]

70. Agreed - their stance is all about control

The emotional and religious contortions come afterwards to support their stance. That is why their arguments make no sense.

L-

[Takket]

71. i used to use anti-choice

but i've recently switched to forced birth having seen that term enter the lexicon, as well.

[Raine]

73. I never used that term, always used anti-choice

will continue with that.

[niyad]

74. Woman-hating gestational slavers.

[BootinUp]

76. Abortion abolitionists is another term I just saw somewhere. nt

[WinstonSmith4740]

77. Been saying this since they raised their ugly heads.

They've never been "pro-life". They've never given a rat's ass about kids once they're born. But unfortunately, "messaging" is the thing the RW loonies have perfected, and our side is still trying to figure out. We should have been calling them "anti-choice" or "forced birth" all along. We've let them define the parameters of this argument for way too long.

[Rhiannon12866]

78. Exactly.

Pro-life would be against the death penalty, for example, and we know that's not the case.

[marybourg]

80. Many of us have been voicing that plea for 55 years now.

But such is the power of the right wing mass media that even some Dems and progressives use that repugnant phrase.

[BlueMTexpat]

81. I have NEVER used

this term to describe the self-righteous forced birthers!

It is so patently false.

[RicROC]

82. Pro-Privacy, Pro-Liberty, Pro-Choice

love that one suggestion, No Forced Concealed Carry

[BlueJac]

84. Agree 100%

Should not let them set the narrative!

[RandiFan1290]

85. and stop calling them the "GOP"

I know it will never happen but worth a shot.

[lark]

86. Exactly, I've been saying the same thing.

They hate all life except that of rich white males and are forcing us to have babies to sell to rich white folks and to become cannon fodder for factories/fields with no safety controls. They are forced birthers who want to make all women nothing more than birthing machines.

[Locrian]

87. they're pro on a lot of things....

Pro rapist - if you get pregnant, they will help the rapist ensure you carry his baby. So if some guy wants to rape and get someone pregnant (they wont help him rape) but they will DEFINITELY help him with forced pregnancy.

Same with pro incest.

Pro death - health of the woman? Who cares. Force her to carry, deliver etc. If she dies who cares as long as their beliefs are upheld

[Buckeyeblue]

89. It's tyranny, really. They are pro-tyranny.

They are against the most basic freedom, which is the freedom over one's own body.

It's one thing to say you would never get an abortion. Although I would caution anyone against saying never...

But to legislate against the freedom over your own body. To have laws that say, if you get pregnant you must see the pregnancy through is beyond my understanding.

I think I've always known how extreme conservatives could be but this has been eye opening. I think for a lot of people.

Hopefully people vote.

[zentrum]

90. Pro-Fetus, Anti-Child.

If they were "pro life", they'd take care of women and children and families after birth.

[area51]

92. If they were really "pro-life",

they'd be on the forefront of trying to get the US universal healthcare; you can't have life without healthcare at some point. Also, they'd be working on getting affordable childcare available for everyone.

[BradAllison]

93. I'm pro it's none of my fucking business.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

94. They are not pro life.

Like you, I've been saying that for years too. They don't give a shit about life. If they did, they'd not be such warmongers. They wouldn't be so in love with guns. They would've done more over the last 2 years to control the spread of COVID. They wouldn't be so anti-healthcare. They wouldn't be burning the planet to the ground in the name of profits. They wouldn't be doing so much to bully and punch down on women and POC and LGBTQ's.

They don't fucking care about life.

They are pro-forced birth. They are pro-fetus. They are pro-controlling women.

They're just hateful fascist assholes. What else is new?