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lovuian

(19,362 posts)
Sat Jan 14, 2012, 09:56 PM Jan 2012

GM deal moves Volt to China

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2011/09/gm-cuts-china-electric-car-deal----a-china-shakedown/1

EV technology they lack, according to an Associated Press report. U.S. lawmakers have complained that China is "shaking down" GM to get Volt secrets. Electric vehicle development in the U.S. has been developed with extensive U.S. taxpayer funding.

Details of the plan were not provided, and GM has denied it will involve handing over intellectual property underlying the Volt.

GM Vice Chairman Steve Girsky, in a conference call from Shanghai, said that neither SAIC nor the Chinese government have demanded Volt technology. Any future EV would, of course, draw on GM's Volt experience and technology. Under the deal, SAIC and GM will equally share the cost of developing a new all-electric vehicle, Girsky said.


China also imposes heavy tariffs on imported cars, which some argue violates world trade rules, and offers substantial subsidies of about $19,000 per electric vehicle only for cars built in China.

GM Vice Chairman Steve Girsky seemed to hint to journalists that the Chevy Volt could be built in China in the future, saying that if GM localizes production in China, "eventually [the Volt] won't have a tariff and it will get the subsidy." But he said no decision had been made on that front and denied that SAIC or the Chinese government had demanded the proprietary Volt technology. GM has stated it will not hand over the intellectual property that underpins the Volt, though a future electric car developed with government-owned SAIC will undoubtedly be based on that technology to a certain degree.

The deal was signed during a GM board meeting in Shanghai, the first to take place outside the U.S.

China overtook the U.S. as the world's largest car market in 2009. On Monday, SAIC, which began production in late 1998, saw its 5 millionth vehicle roll off the assembly line.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2830316/posts

Is this true?
American technology developed by US taxpayers going to China


24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
GM deal moves Volt to China (Original Post) lovuian Jan 2012 OP
China also imposes heavy tariffs on imported cars FreakinDJ Jan 2012 #1
why does China get away with this lovuian Jan 2012 #22
Work locally, get ripped off globally! rfranklin Jan 2012 #2
Yep, the 'new mobile capitalism' is not meant to benefit 'we the people,' only RKP5637 Jan 2012 #4
I won't be buying a Volt lovuian Jan 2012 #5
Article is dated 2011-09-20 FreakinDJ Jan 2012 #7
here is a more updated one lovuian Jan 2012 #13
I know a person who has written a legal paper on China's WTO violation lovuian Jan 2012 #3
Chinese won't spend to develop technology, just steal it from others RockyMtnGuy Jan 2012 #6
Solyndra used CIGS solar cells coated on a cylindrical glass tube inside another tube FarCenter Jan 2012 #9
Tariffs. NOW. Zalatix Jan 2012 #8
Agree n/t Strelnikov_ Jan 2012 #11
Fuck DeathToTheOil Jan 2012 #10
The world is flat . . . no really . . it is Strelnikov_ Jan 2012 #12
Has anybody seen Detroit Michigan? lovuian Jan 2012 #14
Sounds like they only want to build in China for the Chinese market, to get around tariffs. Greg K Jan 2012 #15
The problem is to build production plants in China lovuian Jan 2012 #16
Yeah, this does showcase the leverage the Chinese have... Greg K Jan 2012 #17
Volts made in America catch on fire spontanesouly because of problems with the batteries Neue Regel Jan 2012 #18
Building for sale in China bawieland Jan 2012 #19
won't hand over?? KT2000 Jan 2012 #20
If Americans simply passed on purchasing Chinese products, we could have JDPriestly Jan 2012 #21
And I was actually feeling positive about GM for a moment... ellisonz Jan 2012 #23
If China wants to impose import tariffs, then so can other countries. Heywood J Jan 2012 #24
 

rfranklin

(13,200 posts)
2. Work locally, get ripped off globally!
Sat Jan 14, 2012, 09:59 PM
Jan 2012

It's the new mobile capitalism...moving your productivity to wherever the one percenters can profit most.

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
4. Yep, the 'new mobile capitalism' is not meant to benefit 'we the people,' only
Sat Jan 14, 2012, 10:05 PM
Jan 2012

the top few percent.

lovuian

(19,362 posts)
13. here is a more updated one
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 12:04 AM
Jan 2012

Jan 04
GM launches Volt in China
General Motors of China will receive its first shipments of an undisclosed number of Chevy Volts for retail deliveries this month.

The vehicles are to be priced at $79,000 (RMB 498,00) and as previously reported, are not eligible for incentives available to buyers of domestically made electric vehicles.

GM has at least for now resisted sharing key details of the Volt’s intellectual property with its joint venture partners that would have been required for its domestic production, and possible incentive eligibility.


This is critical, as GM and its joint ventures prepare to expand the offerings of vehicles powered by electricity.”

The company said it will also work closely with government and industry officials to help develop public electric vehicle charging infrastructure.
http://gm-volt.com/2012/01/04/gm-launches-volt-in-china/

They haven't shared the technology yet


Another more recent one

After Receiving Bailout, GM May Move Volt Production to China

Although it happened back in September, 2011, it appears many American taxpayers are unaware that General Motors struck a deal in Shanghai wherein the company has agreed to develop an electric vehicle (EV) platform with its longtime Chinese partner SAIC.

What else was included in this deal? GM has agreed to effectively move all future EV development to China. It could also mean that production of the vehicle itself will be moved overseas.

The agreement is the result of the Chinese government coercing foreign automakers into giving Chinese companies the EV technology they lack, according to an Associated Press report. Unsurprisingly, some U.S. lawmakers have voiced concerns that the deal is little more than a “shake down” from the Chinese to get GM’s Volt secrets. GM has denied reports that it will hand over the intellectual property underlying the Volt.

http://news.yahoo.com/receiving-bailout-gm-may-move-volt-production-china-020507979.html

You see 9/11= 911 American Car Industry

Two final thoughts: First, considering that all of GM’s EV development was financed with taxpayer dollars, it seems perfectly reasonable that many people are upset with the car manufacturer. On the other hand, given what appears to be GM’s failure to develop a successful, affordable and stable EV, one might feel compelled to say of the Shanghai deal, “They can have it.”

Second, given the fact that Federal government helped itself to millions and millions of taxpayer dollars under the pretense that it was going to combat high unemployment by creating “green jobs,” it would seem that moving research and development (and possibly manufacturing) overseas is slightly, well, counterproductive.

It is an interesting debate

lovuian

(19,362 posts)
3. I know a person who has written a legal paper on China's WTO violation
Sat Jan 14, 2012, 10:03 PM
Jan 2012

Hybrid in a Trade Squeeze

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/06/business/global/gm-aims-the-volt-at-china-but-chinese-want-its-secrets.html?_r=1

TIANJIN, China — For General Motors and the Obama administration, the new Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid represents the automotive future, the culmination of decades of high-tech research financed partly with federal dollars.

The Chinese government is refusing to let the Volt qualify for subsidies totaling up to $19,300 a car unless G.M. agrees to transfer the engineering secrets for one of the Volt’s three main technologies to a joint venture in China with a Chinese automaker, G.M. officials said. Some international trade experts said China would risk violating World Trade Organization rules if it imposed that requirement.

The government’s demand is the latest example of China’s willingness to use the leverage of Western access to the vast Chinese market to extract concessions on advanced technologies. Policies to force technology transfers from non-Chinese companies have already helped this nation build big industries in areas like wind turbines, high-speed trains and water purification.

At least five trade experts said that Chinese government policies making it uneconomical to sell an imported electric car in China without transferring technology could violate rules of the World Trade Organization, of which China is a member.

RockyMtnGuy

(83 posts)
6. Chinese won't spend to develop technology, just steal it from others
Sat Jan 14, 2012, 10:07 PM
Jan 2012

This is also what happened to Solyndra. The Chinese took the IP and started selling the technology at cut-rate prices.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
9. Solyndra used CIGS solar cells coated on a cylindrical glass tube inside another tube
Sat Jan 14, 2012, 11:29 PM
Jan 2012

It was a weird technological approach that is used by no others, US or Chinese.

The Chinese have focused on reducing the cost of silicon solar cells. The cells themselves are old designs.

US companies have focused more on thin films and amorphous silicon, creating new solar cell designs, but not being so successful in reducing manufacturing costs.

It turns out that halving manufacturing costs is more important than doubling cell efficiency.

Strelnikov_

(7,772 posts)
12. The world is flat . . . no really . . it is
Sat Jan 14, 2012, 11:52 PM
Jan 2012

That slope to the east propped up by corporate 'free trade' practices and enabled by their bought-off politicians is just an optical illusion.

Water can flow uphill . . it really can.

Greg K

(599 posts)
15. Sounds like they only want to build in China for the Chinese market, to get around tariffs.
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 12:06 AM
Jan 2012

I see no indication that they would ONLY build them in China.

 

Neue Regel

(221 posts)
18. Volts made in America catch on fire spontanesouly because of problems with the batteries
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 12:21 AM
Jan 2012

Can you imagine how much worse the defects will be on the ones made in China???



No thank you, i prefer to continue living.

bawieland

(17 posts)
19. Building for sale in China
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 01:10 AM
Jan 2012

I can't tell from the stories posted here, but I know from reporting on the auto industry up until a year ago that this might not mean manufacturing from scratch in China.

For example, when GM wanted to sell Cadillac CTSes in China, it had to "make" them there. But making them there consisted of actually making them in Lansing, Mich., then disassembling the wheels and some other components and shipping it all to China as a kit. The kit was reassembled there and qualified as China-made.

I'm hoping that's what's being talked about here.

But I agree, the prospect of IP violations in China has long been a concern for manufacturers in other countries. I don't know if anyone's figured out how to solve that problem yet.

KT2000

(20,544 posts)
20. won't hand over??
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 01:25 AM
Jan 2012

That is a laugh. You do not go to China and keep the plans for your product a secret. That just does not happen.
American business can be sooo stupid. They think it is about money on a 30 day sheet and nothing else.
They are fools and we are too if we allowed tax-funded research to be handed over to another country.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
21. If Americans simply passed on purchasing Chinese products, we could have
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 03:08 AM
Jan 2012

a way to answer the overbearing trade policies of the Chinese.

If we don't have the self-control to do without Chinese junk, we deserve what will happen to us, to our jobs, to our economy and to our lives.

Don't buy products with the Made in China label. Just leave them on the shelf. Do without if you have to.

Heywood J

(2,515 posts)
24. If China wants to impose import tariffs, then so can other countries.
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 08:05 PM
Jan 2012

$19,000 per vehicle that retails for about $40,000? I wonder what they would say to a 50% subsidy for domestic manufacturing or a 50% import duty on their containers.

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