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nichomachus

(12,754 posts)
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 10:11 AM Nov 2012

A Romney presidency will NOT take us back 50 years

There's a graphic going around "On Saturday, don't forget to set your clock back one hour. On Tuesday, try not to set your country back 50 years."

It's cute, but it's not correct. I was in college in 1962 and it was a pretty good time. Wages were rising steadily, energy was cheap, health care was affordable (as was college), we weren't fully engaged in Vietnam yet, the Beatles had their first hit, there was a progressive spirit in the country, JFK was president, and I could get a six pack for 80 cents. Things weren't perfect (abortion and civil rights, for example), but we were moving forward and gaining ground quickly.

Romney/Ryan want to take us back 90 years.

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A Romney presidency will NOT take us back 50 years (Original Post) nichomachus Nov 2012 OP
When you're in your twenties, enlightenment Nov 2012 #1
I'm going to assume you're a white heterosexual man. nt sufrommich Nov 2012 #2
You don't have to assume it nichomachus Nov 2012 #3
I think he is trying to say it would be even worse than 1962, not saying that 1962 wasnt bad stevenleser Nov 2012 #27
1962, eh? The civil rights movement was just getting underway and MineralMan Nov 2012 #4
I believe I mentioned that nichomachus Nov 2012 #5
It was very far from perfect. MineralMan Nov 2012 #6
If you want to be pedantic, you're right Not Sure Nov 2012 #9
Having lived through that time means that I'm not being pedantic. MineralMan Nov 2012 #10
+ infinity SemperEadem Nov 2012 #23
++++++++ Whisp Nov 2012 #25
I should have said straight white male. MineralMan Nov 2012 #26
all I heaven05 Nov 2012 #28
Yes. The Republicans would take us to a dark, dark place. MineralMan Nov 2012 #29
Everyone looks back and femrap Nov 2012 #11
+10000 heaven05 Nov 2012 #20
I grew up in femrap Nov 2012 #30
well heaven05 Nov 2012 #34
While most of your post is a nice read, I just can't let those last 2 paragraphs go unanswered. DRoseDARs Nov 2012 #31
no heaven05 Nov 2012 #35
I don't believe I femrap Nov 2012 #36
Romney would take us places none of us have ever been reserved for Central Europe in the 1930-1945 gordianot Nov 2012 #7
Yet... femrap Nov 2012 #14
I thought we were headed femrap Nov 2012 #8
The post you are referring to was not intended to be a historical comparison between now and plethoro Nov 2012 #12
In 1962, my mom was fired for getting pregnant gollygee Nov 2012 #13
Probably from a low paying job she got by looking under sufrommich Nov 2012 #16
True, but 50 years ago treestar Nov 2012 #15
He won't take us anywhere Johonny Nov 2012 #17
These are my thoughts also. If Romney wins the days plethoro Nov 2012 #21
got heaven05 Nov 2012 #22
Everyone I know has started preparations, from cursory to exhaustive. I am in the middle....Good plethoro Nov 2012 #24
When I listen to his policies, I picture the pre-Medieval era ecstatic Nov 2012 #18
Actually, republicans aren't that crazy about the Magna Carta, MsPithy Nov 2012 #19
90 years? Hell they want to take us back to feudalism!!! Initech Nov 2012 #32
Take it back about *150* years and you'd have that about right - The Robber Baron/Gilded Age We People Nov 2012 #33
Good point. I miss the 60s. I really, really miss the 70s. yardwork Nov 2012 #37

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
1. When you're in your twenties,
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 10:28 AM
Nov 2012

fifty years is a long, long time ago . . .

We felt the same way when we were that age (I think. My memory isn't what it used to be).

nichomachus

(12,754 posts)
3. You don't have to assume it
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 10:41 AM
Nov 2012

Yes, I am, well white and male anyway. Which is why I said we still had problems in areas of civil rights, women's rights, and LGBT rights (as a gay man I am well aware of those problems), but there were efforts on all fronts and we were moving forward. Unlike today, when we seem at times to be going backward. It was a time of hope and steady progress. A Romney presidency would destroy both hope and progress.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
27. I think he is trying to say it would be even worse than 1962, not saying that 1962 wasnt bad
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:07 PM
Nov 2012

It's hard to pin down. Romney, and Republicans in general, want the economics of the 1920s, the civil/womens/LGBT rights of the 1930s, and the class divisions and inequalities of the early 1200s (before Magna Carta).

Come to think of it, I think he wants everything the way it was during feudalism in the early 1200s.

MineralMan

(146,254 posts)
4. 1962, eh? The civil rights movement was just getting underway and
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 10:45 AM
Nov 2012

blacks were still being lynched. Contraceptive devices were still illegal in many states or had to be marked, "for protection from disease only." Women were still being prosecuted for having abortions, and those illegal abortions were unsafe and killed many women. Women's pay was hugely lower than men's for the same work. Smog was choking cities like Los Angeles, and my father was building a fallout shelter under our house. Cancer of all types was still a death sentence.

No, things weren't good then at all, unless you were white, a man, and had a good job.

nichomachus

(12,754 posts)
5. I believe I mentioned that
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 10:50 AM
Nov 2012

It wasn't perfect, but we were progressing -- unlike today. We're going backward, the climate is about to kill us, and the US is close tonfragmenting.

MineralMan

(146,254 posts)
6. It was very far from perfect.
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 10:54 AM
Nov 2012

We are not going backward, either. Ask any LGBT person serving in the military.

1962 was only a good time to remember if you're white and male.

Not Sure

(735 posts)
9. If you want to be pedantic, you're right
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 11:48 AM
Nov 2012

honestly, there is no precedent for reversing liberty, equality and opportunity the way the Romney ticket would have it. The point is 50 years is not extreme enough a comparison when it comes to how far back these fuckers want to turn the clock.

To hell with Romney the windsock and to hell with Ryan the self-righteous.

MineralMan

(146,254 posts)
10. Having lived through that time means that I'm not being pedantic.
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 11:51 AM
Nov 2012

Last edited Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:07 PM - Edit history (1)

It was as I said it was. Only if you were a straight white male was 1962 a good time. That is simply a fact.

ETA: I left "straight" out when I first wrote this. I shouldn't have.

SemperEadem

(8,053 posts)
23. + infinity
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:56 PM
Nov 2012

you are exactly right. Things were not bright and sunny back in 1962.

50 years ago, women had no choice in much of anything: they couldn't get their own credit; they couldn't take out their own loans without their husband or a man co-signing; they could be beaten within an inch of their lives by their husbands and the state would not intervene.

I believe that socially as far as women were concerned, 50 years ago, things were not great for women.

As far as minorities were concerned, 50 years ago was just the start of some change... it wasn't "Happy Days" for a whole lot of citizens of this country.

MineralMan

(146,254 posts)
26. I should have said straight white male.
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:06 PM
Nov 2012

I left that other descriptor off, and it should have been there.

In most parts of this country, gay men were not out in 1962. I graduated from high school in 1963, and did not know of a single gay man in my city or school. It wasn't until I moved away from the small town I lived in that I met anyone who was out as GLBT. I'm sure there were the same percentage then, but they could not reveal that they were gay or lesbian safely in most places.

ETA: I've edited the post.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
28. all I
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:09 PM
Nov 2012

know is if mitttwit steals the election and gets away with, we are all up a creek. No boat, paddle, boots or future. Won't matter who you are. If you don't go to their side, your days will be numbered.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
11. Everyone looks back and
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:12 PM
Nov 2012

sees something different...I was 10 in 1962 living on a farm with clean air and eating corn on the cob and strawberry shortcake. I was lucky to live where schools were highly regarded as well as teachers. It was unheard of to drop out of school. The music was great, bullies were few, (the worse they did to me was call me fat...I swiftly kicked them in the shins).....too much corn on the cob, I guess.

My mother was divorced and was the breadwinner....and yes, if she got pregnant, she would have been fired from her job. I was not allowed into certain homes because my parents were divorced. Only Liz and Richard got divorces in those days.

What I remember is civility and manners. And not so crowded. No road rage. Children could walk the streets and ride their bikes without helmets. We spent our summers at the local pool with our transistor radios. And The Beatles were coming and everyone started to look at the world differently. Peace became something desirable and even possible. I still had Hope....lots of it.

Unions were strong and no one resented them. People cooked. Eating at McDonald's was a rarity.

I'm glad I'm old. I would hate to be a girl growing up in today's technological 24/7 MSM propaganda where beauty and Hollywood fame is all that matters.

And we are still listening to The Beatles, The Beach Boys, The Stones, Janis Joplin, The Who, and Jimi Hendrix...and the great Soul Music out of Detroit.

Now I look back at the days of Watergate and Tricky Dick (who is the model for RobMe's campaign...just keep changing your story until it fits whatever the political middle is) and see he was just a soft Teddy Bear compared to the Evil we are faced with today.

And Corporations knew their place in society. We still shopped at mom and pop stores.

The only hope I have these days is that the Mayans are correct and come the end of this year, we see a shift in this destructive, macho, competitive paradigm to one of cooperation and equality.

I wouldn't mind one iota if Mother Earth shrugged and turned on her axis throwing the Greedy into outer space or deep into the ocean. This happens every 26,000 years....I always thought I'd be here to experience it. It's time to hit the Reset Button.





 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
20. +10000
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:33 PM
Nov 2012

yeah, it was not all apple pie and mom. Walking on the roads in rural Georgia, no sidewalks folks, I had to walk facing traffic and listening behind me for road crossers. There were still lynchings and extreme racism in public interaction, but hope was starting to blossom. Kennedy and Jackie were as representatives of this nation, ideal. Dr. Martin Luther King was still alive, so hope was alive. Rosa Parks had said, hell no you go to the back of the bus! There was outrage by white people at bombings of little girls in church. So there was hope. And lo and behold! Voila! A black man as POTUS with a beautiful and intelligent, caring wife. Queen Ann would only care about getting that servant, in the white house to move faster and to get her food and clothes prepared, just like 150 years ago. I could see her snapping the whip. Still have a loooong road ahead of us, yet there is hope. Ditto on the whole paradigm shift scenario, I hope so too. May true peace come in our lifetime.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
30. I grew up in
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:18 PM
Nov 2012

the North, but my mom and I would drive to Florida every spring break (from the age of 9 through college...and in a car w/ no radio and no interstates through the Smokies) to visit her sister and husband who was a true Southern Racist. I remember people referring to us as 'Yankees.' I had never seen such out-and-out racism before. It scared me...how could people be so evil and cruel. It was truly an eye-opening, mind-changing experience.

I would never stay in a room alone with my racist uncle...he gave me the 'creeps.'

To this day, I've never stepped foot into AL or MS because I'm afraid I'd end up in jail from saying something which I thought was normal and they didn't. Do you think it would be educational for me to visit those states or would it just raise my blood pressure and I'd end up in jail??

Yep, a little Peace would do me wonders!

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
34. well
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:57 PM
Nov 2012

I haven't been there since 89. It had changed. less open racism ect and I'm told it is still not so bad. But 'yankees' are still viewed with suspicion in rural areas. I imagine visiting again but never living. good luck if you do go. our nation is so divided I would give it time to heal from this election cycle especially since our POTUS will be reelected.

 

DRoseDARs

(6,810 posts)
31. While most of your post is a nice read, I just can't let those last 2 paragraphs go unanswered.
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:46 PM
Nov 2012

First, the Mayans. They and their calendar predict no such thing as the end of the world. It measures time in periods, just as ours does. Or the Jewish or Islamic calendars do. Or the Chinese calendar. The Mayan calendar just has much larger periods it can count. This cockamamy nonsense about it predicting the end of the world stems from some idiot mid-century looking to cash in on bad archeology and crackpot theories. Oh, and someone FINALLY got around to asking actual Mayans what they thought about their ancestors' calendar predicting the end of the world. The Mayans were a bit perplexed how someone could think it predicted any such thing. Again, it's a calendar. One that can also measure really long periods. That's it. That's all it does.

Second, the 26,000 year thing. That's called precession. The Earth is doing it right now. Every second, of every day, of every year. Have you ever spun a top? Besides its obvious spin, see that little wobble it does about its spin axis? That's precession and that's what the Earth does, but much much slower. 26,000 years to complete one cycle. Star charts have to be updated every 50 years because of it. While Polaris is our current north star, in 13,000 years Vega will claim that title as the precession of Earth's rotational axis slowly swings around. There will be many "north stars" along the way between Polaris and Vega and back again, but those 2 are currently the brightest along that circular path. Remember too, stars are not stationary either so eventually both Polaris and Vega will cease ever being our north stars and other stars will take their place.

Third, you hadn't mentioned it but it's another misconception that gets mixed in with Mayans and precession that grinds my gears, the Earth's magnetosphere. It goes through somewhat less predictable cycles, though we can see past cycles by measuring magnetic footprints in the rocks out by the Mid-Atlantic Ridge as the North American and European plates are pushed apart. The Earth is not going to lose its magnetosphere, the field simply weakens and becomes multipolar as a result. Instead of a magnetic north pole and a magnetic south pole, we get multiple magnetic poles. This lasts for a time until the magnetic field reorganizes itself, as it always has, and returns to a bipolar state though reversed from its previous state. Magnetic poles are NOT the same thing as rotational poles. Earth will NOT flip around, the crust will NOT shudder and break, Sol will NOT bake us alive. A weakened magnetosphere simply allows more high energy particles to reach the Earth's surface. You'll see an uptick in cancers, more electric grid failures during solar storms, and that's about it. Oh, and your magnetic compass will be utterly useless too as it won't point towards THE magnetic north pole, it'll just point at the nearest one. There will be several to choose from.

Of all the things that can kill us, Mayans and magnets and axes (oh my!) aren't among them. Rest easier.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
35. no
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 03:02 PM
Nov 2012

matter the dissertation, I still hope 12/12/12 will cause a shakeup of arrogant human nature. I know this election will and if the 2nd amendment racist/nuts come out after our POTUS is reelected, my powder is dry.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
36. I don't believe I
Sun Nov 4, 2012, 02:20 PM
Nov 2012

said that the Mayans predicted the END. It is a shift...a new beginning from competition to cooperation. We now enter the age of Aquarius...and leave the destruction behind....hopefully. I just want that to happen ASAP. I've run out of patience.

You have no more idea of what Mother Earth and Father Sky are going to do than I.

But the 26,000 years theory was taught to me in Physical Science 101 at OU...and when I heard it, goose bumps went over my body. Whatever it is, I will see some sort of great change in/on the Earth. Maybe just land mass changes, I don't know. But it will be spectacular and life-changing. What science declares as fact changes daily.

Whatever about the magnetosphere....humans are killing their host planet. Maybe it's already too late.



gordianot

(15,233 posts)
7. Romney would take us places none of us have ever been reserved for Central Europe in the 1930-1945
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 11:05 AM
Nov 2012

This man should be a criminal but slips through the system that allows behavior that SHOULD be criminal, he is a massive liar but only receives mild rebukes, he is a dangerous religious fanatic but no one is allowed to discuss that with him. Bottom line he wants to be your boss. Elect this parasite you will see a new world and times like no other.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
14. Yet...
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:16 PM
Nov 2012

look at how many Americans are supporting him. Or maybe they hate Obama for his skin color. Racism is still alive and strong in this country.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
8. I thought we were headed
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 11:38 AM
Nov 2012

back to the days of the good ole Serfdom. Lots of peons and witch burning...

 

plethoro

(594 posts)
12. The post you are referring to was not intended to be a historical comparison between now and
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:13 PM
Nov 2012

fifty years ago. It was a metaphor for returning "backwards"--irrespective of whether backwards was better or worse. Of course, I suppose the writer could have spent more time writing an epistle about exactly how things were that we are using in our comparison. But who would have read it? Not me. I could spend every day reading articles and comments written about this election. But the short paragraph written by whoever this understanding person was helped give perspective to what would happen in a possible loss by Obama--regardless how fly-specking revealed otherwise. We are in the most important election ever held in this country. The brief comment helped me and others I emailed it to develop resolve. Your deciphering of that brief comment did not. Go Obama!

treestar

(82,383 posts)
15. True, but 50 years ago
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:19 PM
Nov 2012

was just before the Civil Rights Act, and just about the time The Feminine Mystique was written.

On the surface it may have looked good, but if you really think about it - not so great.

Johonny

(20,818 posts)
17. He won't take us anywhere
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:25 PM
Nov 2012

He wants most everyone gone. A short life of working yourself to death to make him more money. Then a quick goodbye. He isn't planning to take you anywhere unless you strap easily to the roof of his car.

 

plethoro

(594 posts)
21. These are my thoughts also. If Romney wins the days
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:35 PM
Nov 2012

of holding up signs and sending out nasty emails are over. It will be time for nothing-left-to-lose inspired action. Lock and load.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
22. got
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:54 PM
Nov 2012

your back. If mitttwit steals it, it will be eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we may die.

 

plethoro

(594 posts)
24. Everyone I know has started preparations, from cursory to exhaustive. I am in the middle....Good
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:00 PM
Nov 2012

luck to you.

ecstatic

(32,652 posts)
18. When I listen to his policies, I picture the pre-Medieval era
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:29 PM
Nov 2012

It was in that period when some people finally realized that unions might be helpful:

The medieval business world became dominated by the Guilds. When merchants found they could accomplish more as a group rather than through individual effort, they banded together to form guilds. Guilds formed for bakers, butchers, grocers, millers, smiths, carpenters, weavers, mason, shoemakers, in fact, nearly every trade had its own guild. Standards such as just weights and measures evolved from the guilds, and searchers would inspect shops to ensure rules were being followed. Guilds would help members that were sick, or in trouble, and would sometimes take care of families after the member died.


He wants to take us back even further than medieval times!

MsPithy

(809 posts)
19. Actually, republicans aren't that crazy about the Magna Carta,
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 12:32 PM
Nov 2012

and would repeal it if they could. That's almost 800 years.

Initech

(100,038 posts)
32. 90 years? Hell they want to take us back to feudalism!!!
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:23 PM
Nov 2012

They'd love it if they were the lords amd we were the serfs and peasants - making no money and owning no land.

We People

(619 posts)
33. Take it back about *150* years and you'd have that about right - The Robber Baron/Gilded Age
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 02:37 PM
Nov 2012

If TEAGOP would be rightly called itself The Robber Baron party, then it would be more obvious what they're about.

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