Empty classified document folders were found.

[fightforfreedom]

This investigation is going to bring a lot of people down, including Trump.

[getagrip_already]

1. just circumstantial I fear....

Like a missing person, you can't assume they are dead without a body. You can try to build a case on assumptions, but that is all they are unless you have other evidence.

It's useful for shock value, but I dobt there is much legal bang there.

[fightforfreedom]

4. Are you kidding?

[Ponietz]

6. +1

[getagrip_already]

7. No, but I'm not a lawyer.....

But it would seem to me that in a court, it would be hard to get from point a to point b without proof there was ever anything in those folders.

If the cover sheets have an id of soe sort that can be linked to the docs (a numeric or barcode for example), and you can prove that tfg aides checked them out but never returned them, then that might be useful. But in the end you still have to convince a jury.

I doubt they will be used as a charge. The doj has plenty of seized docs to charge him with.

Just a thought

[brush]

10. There's no better evidence of mishandling of government...

and/or classified documents than empty folders with the docs missing.

Are you kidding me...empty classified document folders and you see no problem with that?

The whole trump cabal, especially trump, is subject to deeper investigation now. trump is probably already regretting he requested a special master.

What other incriminating evidence will be found?

[FM123]

19. Yep.

That's what former U.S. Attorney Glenn Kirschner was just talking on MSNBC....

[louis-t]

24. If they have classified markings on them, and I hear they do...

big trouble.

[fightforfreedom]

16. Those empty folders are like nails in a coffin.

[harumph]

22. No, you are not a lawyer -

but classified docs are very different than other types of material. If you check it out with the proper credentials, you
are held responsible for returning it complete. Full stop. It's not like a lost library book. Notwithstanding the fact he removed the TS/SCI
., etc (that were US property) and notwithstanding the fact didn't give them back when requested (obstruction of justice), if in addition there are missing TS/SCI docs., then he (and possibly we) is/are fucked.

[getagrip_already]

26. I'm not a lawyer, true, but I have held security clearances...

I know what the protocols are.

And while I've never worked in the wh, I can be fairly certain that tfg never personally signed anything out. Aids would have done that, or he held onto materials brought in for briefings. But his name likely wasn't on a chain of custody doc.

So the archives have a list of docs that were checked out, or that may have been on loan, but none of them are traceable unless a strict chain of custody was maintained; we know one wasn't.

And unless the folders are in some way serialized to match the docs they held, you can't say a specific folder held a specific doc. It's just an empty folder.

I'm still irate as hell, but not sure how the doj can use empty folders as part of a charge. Sure, losing docs is a crime in itself, but you have to prove there were docs in those folders when he took them. He could claim they were empty all along.

We know better, but as denizens of the internet we don't have to prove anything save to ourselves.

[Jirel]

8. I know, right?

The document is missing. It has not been collected without its folder. Similar documents along with the outer folders of those missing documents are found in the lair. Statutes forbid removal, possession, destruction, alteration, etc. The only question is whether yet MORE charges are added on because the alarming current whereabouts of the un-foldered is discovered.

[Emile]

13. You do know the DOJ has copies of the entire files

these documents came from and know full well which documents are missing?

[jmowreader]

21. Not necessarily

One of our worst Cold War spies, James Hall III, made copies of everything he took.

Here’s the worst part of the Hall affair. Hall owned a car when he was in Berlin - a lot of us didn’t - and he’d go out to the site on his days off and copy classified documents, the copies of which he’d put in a false-bottom briefcase the KGB gave him. People actually thought Hall was being a super soldier by coming to work on his days off. (The copier was in the foyer. We didn’t have security cameras.)

The only reason we know everything Hall took is he fucked over the KGB. He had a contract with them to only provide information to them. Well, the bastard got greedy and made deals with the Stasi and, if I remember correctly, Polish and Czech intelligence as well. The KGB and Stasi had an intelligence sharing agreement, and when the Stasi guy showed up with documents the KGB already had, they turned his ass in AND provided complete lists of everything they’d been given.

We might get the same cooperation with Trump, but I doubt it. Trump owes the Russians more money than even a dishonest man can pay, so they might be inclined to help us put him away for screwing them over.

[kcr]

14. I can't decide which post I've enjoyed on DU more today

This, or the one that thinks cutting down all the trees in a park is a realistic solution for homelessness.

[uponit7771]

18. +1, there are no doubt some leanings being portraid

[TheRealNorth]

23. If Trump were Hillary Clinton....

The MAGATS would be chanting "lock her up". And I thought the changes Trump and the Republicans made to the law in 2018 clarified the criminality of losing classified documents, regardless if the intent wasn't criminal or neglect.

[LonePirate]

2. I'm thinking there are additional documents which have not been recovered yet.

Some/most/all may likely never be found as some of them may have been turned over or distributed to non-American recipients.

[GreenWave]

12. They are playing the old catch us if you can game.

[brush]

20. Probably SOLD to non-American recipients.

[viva la]

3. "Also notable, the list included scores of "empty folders" with "CLASSIFIED" banners"

This is another "be careful what you wish for" lesson for Trump. His hand-picked judge released the inventory list.

What will Trump's first defense be? "The FBI planted those folders! Then they stole the contents from me!"

[jcgoldie]

5. Almost everything the public knows about this investigation...

...has been the result of Trump's inept legal team tripping over themselves.

[kcr]

25. He treasures his empty folder collection

[no_hypocrisy]

9. Ready-to-go TFG excuse:

The papers were carelessly stuck into a another file.

[RAB910]

11. Like Nixon's missing 18 minutes

[Ponietz]

15. Commingled with gifts!

Did the givers have an interest in the stolen material set aside with them? Points to espionage.

[lindysalsagal]

17. We now know why he didn't return them after the subpoena: They're GONE. What crimes

would those files reveal? I think it's fair to assume this is the enormous cover-up of all kinds of crimes: Russian bribes and collusion, interior wrong-doing, budget skimming and financial miss-appropriation (stealing), covid "fixing"?

These files probably held the evidence and now they're gone: Traded, sold, or held somewhere else, Scotland maybe????

If this were a detective show, the government would look into private bank accounts to see who's living 2, 4, 10 times their salary allowance.