** President Biden should order the DOJ to not turn over any of the stolen documents **

[kentuck]

He is the President and he is the only one with executive privilege.

He should order the AG and the DOJ not to turn over any of the documents that were seized in Mar-a-Lago, to Donald Trump or any Trump judge.

They are acting illegally and it is his duty to see that all laws are faithfully executed.

It is Joe Biden's call. It is not the call of a Judge or a "Special Master". He is the only one with executive privilege.

President Biden should declare that the documents belong to the National Archives and the US Government. They do not belong to Donald Trump or any Judge, not even the Supreme Court.

When they receive a legal request, they will obey it. This is not legal.

He should issue his order immediately.

Dangerous times call for courageous decisions.

[MOMFUDSKI]

1. Agree.

And DOJ must indict and arrest the orange menace NOW. This damage cannot continue one more day.

[Meowmee]

4. Yes immediately

Time is of the essence.

[Beachnutt]

2. I agree,

stop playing whack a mole in the court system with trump also..
Arrest his ass.

[Meowmee]

3. Can he do that?

Something needs to be done.

[kentuck]

5. Who's going to stop him?

The Judge?

Separation of powers.

[Meowmee]

17. I don't know

I am not sure what powers he has here which was why I asked. I guess he can then.

[Sneederbunk]

6. DOJ should file appeal before Special Master appointed.

Can continue to hold docs pending appeal.

[kentuck]

8. Both sides have to agree to a "Special Master"...

...is my understanding.

Joe Biden should tell them flat out they are not getting the documents. They do not belong to Donald Trump or any Judge.

He should order the DOJ to protect the documents for the National Archives, the true owners.

If they don't like it, let them do something about it.

He is the President and the only person with executive privilege in this matter.

[former9thward]

41. Both sides get to nominate someone for the SM.

They don't have to agree. The judge can pick one of the nominees or someone else. They have until Friday to nominate someone.

[TigressDem]

15. Seems Judge has ordered a Special Master be appointed...

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/09/doj-appeal-judge-cannon-trump-special-master.html

[Sneederbunk]

27. Filing an appeal stops everything.

[TigressDem]

29. Who does the appeal go to? DC Court or SCOTUS?

[Sneederbunk]

30. 11th Circuit Court of Appeals

[TigressDem]

32. Elected or appointed?

[Sneederbunk]

33. Appointed by Pres and cinfirmed by Senate, justlike Cannon.

[TigressDem]

36. So if somehow a tRump appointee gets the appeal, same BS?

I think the idea should be that documents removed from the White House illegally and finally returned, GO NO WHERE.

Especially during an active investigation.

Special Master can look but not interfere.

There are empty folders and nuclear secrets involved. It is a matter of National Security and potential treason which makes it a special situation needing full review and transparency, without games being played to remove any documents that may shed light on the case.

People commit tax fraud and their whole assets are seized.

People break the law they get their day in court, but they don't get to tell the court what to do with evidence.

Just because he WAS the pRes doesn't mean he can break the law and make new laws to suit himself.

[Sneederbunk]

37. Will probably be at least a 3 judge panel.

[former9thward]

40. No it doesn't.

Only if the court issues a stay. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

[MerryHolidays]

7. I don't think President Biden would inject himself into this

I have to confess that I was a bit disappointed that the DoJ did not appeal Cannon's decision immediately. By not doing so, and for every day that does, it takes away from the urgency of the case.

Tomorrow's another day, so let's see. I personally don't agree with some of the talking heads that say the appeal to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals might be problematic since it has a lot Trump appointees.

Anyway, all speculation on my part, but I do think Trump will stress the "lack of urgency" is Cannon's decision is not appealed soon.

[kentuck]

9. I disagree.

I think he should inject himself squarely in the middle of it. It is about the balance of powers. They are attempting to usurp the executive privilege which belongs to him only.

The Special Master and the appeals are a waste of time and a delay in justice. Biden is the President. He should order that the documents be protected and not turned over under any circumstances.

[MerryHolidays]

11. While I agree with your point that executive privilege belongs to the sitting President

That's not what Cannon said. She basically said it was "possible" that a former POTUS can also claim EP, which is patently absurd. That's the appealable legal issue (among many others.)

I see no way that President Biden would intervene in what is a legal dispute. An appeal to either the Court of Appeals or a direct appeal to SCOTUS (which is what happened in US v. Nixon) would be the way to go.

[TigressDem]

13. We do NOT want the tRump packed SCOTUS to touch this AT ALL. nt

[MerryHolidays]

14. There is really no other choice. SCOTUS came through on the election cases

I would think they would want to get rid of this buffoon once and for all. If they really wanted to help him, the election cases were the way.

[TigressDem]

16. Nope. They are in lock step at this point. Nope. Nope. Nope.

ROE V WADE.

ELECTION protections being dismantled.

https://www.facingsouth.org/2022/07/supreme-court-could-give-legislatures-unprecedented-control-over-elections




NO


NO


NO

[Meowmee]

19. This

It is hard to believe anyone trusts the obviously now corrupt sc

[MerryHolidays]

21. Roe v. Wade is an entirely different issue than getting rid of Trump

So you want this to become about Joe Biden? Really??

Goodbye House and Senate if he did, but President Biden is FAR too smart to intervene in this case. That's what the Department of Justice is for.

[TigressDem]

22. What I want is that it be made CLEAR to the WORLD WHO HAS EXECUTIVE privilege and who does not.

And I don't trust the SCOTUS at this point to make any rational decision.

If they wade into this, who knows they might make up a new law and reinstate tRump.

They can NOT be trusted in their current formation.


THEY DID ROE for the MAGA.

Why not give them everything they want?

[MerryHolidays]

23. Unfortunately, a federal judge disagrees with this absolutely correct position of law

As I said, the SCOTUS (same one that heard the election cases) could have helped Trump in the election cases. It was 8-1 against Trump, with only Thomas voting in favor of Trump's nonsense. Why exactly do you think they want to protect Trump now?

Doing what you suggest would hand the mid-term elections back to the Rs.

[TigressDem]

26. Biden being strong and standing up to an illegal manuever isn't going to lose US votes.

They can HAVE their Special Master look, but the DOCUMENTS GO NO WHERE and the investigation continues.

National Security is at stake.

Nuclear Secrets were in that cluster.

Top Secret folders WERE EMPTY.

The risk assessment must be made.


The Special Master can look, but not stop everything else. If Donald's twinkie order accidentally got swept up in the chaos, she can request that be returned.

[TigressDem]

18. Dark Brandon, RISE and get rid of this monkey court dance that is illegal and un needed.

The investigation needs the evidence to investigate and the defendant seems to have already sold several folders full of it, so the assessment of threat needs to be done ASAP.

Isn't there some law that suspected traitors be detained due to flight risk?

[KY_EnviroGuy]

10. A few points, kentuck...

* Once the FBI gained possession of the documents and they were duly inventoried, all should have been re-entered into the normal chain of custody. Therefore, any marked 'Secret' would require proper clearance even to allow inspection at a suitable high-security location.

* Because most or all of these documents are likely to now be considered evidence in a Federal investigation of highest concern, it would be inherent for them to have the highest protection available.

* Access to many of these documents for inspection by a 'special master' or others may require approval from multiple agencies. The only thing this 'special master' bullshit accomplishes for tRump is delaying the process and it gives him more free media exposure.

Because these documents were not tRump's to begin with, neither he or his council have the right to remove them from Federal custody.

It may be wise for President Biden to review these laws and document protection processes in a speech to the public. He should not have to declare anything that's already in the statutes relating to preservation of evidence and to protection of Federal documents.

KY

[kentuck]

39. I agree.

Joe Biden has the legal authority to protect these documents.

And he should.

[onenote]

51. Claiming executive privilege doesn't prevent Trump from getting access to non-classified records

Most of the records are presidential records and most of those are not classified. The documents of a former president may belong to the government, not the former president, but that doesn't mean that a former president isn't entitled to access those documents. Where documents have been transferred into the Archives possession, Section 2005 (3) provides that "the Presidential records of a former President shall be available to such former President or the former President's designated representative." That is why the Archives stated, in its May 10 letter to Trump's counsel, that "in accordance with the PRA, 44 U.S.C. § 2205(3), the former President’s designated representatives can review the records, subject to obtaining the appropriate level of security clearance."

The quirk in this case is that the documents haven't been transferred to the archives. It would have been better if that transfer had occurred as soon as the documents were seized and then DOJ had requested that they be released back to DOJ for investigative purposes. That's what happened with the documents that the Archives obtained in January.

[TigressDem]

12. To protect them.

To take them out of "play" since the DOJ has seen them, they can have copies.

Since the special assessment did/did not get completed??? I am not clear on that yet.... but all documents should be preserved so that it can be done with the complete collection.


WHEN you get caught with illegal substances in your car and it is impounded, anything else in your car is impounded as well until the investigation is complete.

SO if anything got swept up because Bozo the tRump decided he had the right to break the law... then it stays put until the investigation is complete.

[867-5309.]

20. A president directing his DOJ to ignore a judge's order?

Maybe he should tell them to go ahead and arrest and lock up TFG, no trial needed.

Yikes.

[TigressDem]

24. NO, but ordering that documents that fall under Executive Privilege are HIS not tRump's now....

AND that while the DOJ investigates and a threat assessment is being made, those documents are not to be put into a game of tug of war with someone who had no right to remove them in the first place.

Special Master can be appointed to look, but they GO NO WHERE.

Special Master has no say over where the documents go until the complete investigation and assessment are made.

NATIONAL SECURITY IS AT STAKE.

Multiple folders of Secret and/or Top Secret documents are EMPTY.

[MerryHolidays]

25. Which is exactly why, if true, it should be appealed on an expedited basis

Do you want Joe Biden to be held in contempt?

[TigressDem]

28. National Security. Nuclear secrets. EMPTY FOLDERS. Corrupt SCOTUS. NO...nt

[MerryHolidays]

31. You do understand that the DoJ initiated the search by going to federal court?

The FBI didn't just come without authority to Mar-a-Lago. Why would you think the DoJ or the President can unilaterally do something when they went to the court to begin with?

Anyway, I guess my view is clear. Goodnight.

[kentuck]

35. They followed the law.

The Judge did not. Biden's job is to make sure they do.

[MerryHolidays]

38. It is the appellate courts job to do that.

[kentuck]

42. It is not the Court's job to protect the documents.

It is the job of the Executive Branch.

[CaptainTruth]

49. Empty folders is a non-issue, we shouldn't be distracted by it.

The folks in government who handle classified/sensitive docs do not run to the supply room & grab just one folder every time they need one. They could be running to the supply room, heck, maybe 43 times a day. No, if there are a bunch of classified/sensitive docs in a place you can expect to find a bunch of empty folders, appropriately marked for use with the docs.

More detail (from a former member of the CIA & State Dept) here:

[link:https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217114586|]

[867-5309.]

55. The documents are not in Trump's procession while they're being accessed

So where is the security threat?

[kentuck]

34. It is about the balance of powers in the Constitution.

The Judiciary is attempting to usurp the power of the Executive.

Joe Biden is the President and the only one with Executive Privilege. It is a criminal investigation. The target of the crime does not get to call the shots. He has no executive privilege.

Joe Biden's duty under the Constitution is to assure that all laws are faithfully executed.

He should use his power.

What could they do?

Take him to court? Impeach him? Who is going to take the side of a traitor that stole documents that threaten our national security in a court of law?

There has to be a fair and legal process, otherwise, Joe Biden should stop them in their tracks.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

43. Actually strikes me they should have anticipated this special master

flim flam and acted to avoid it

But since they didn't , YES like your idea!!

[Fiendish Thingy]

50. How does one "avoid" a corrupt ruling by an incompetent judge?

They did the best as could be expected under the ridiculous conditions.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

66. It's not the judge and her ruling. It was the legal team

For Prez Dingbat that came up with the special master idea.

[Imperialism Inc.]

63. They did.

The search warrant included a filter team (sometimes called a taint team) to separate out anything that might have attorney client privilege, and the team has indeed separated out a few items.

There is no such thing as a special master for executive privilege. That's just something Trump's lawyers made up and for some reason (we know why) the judge signed off on the idea.

[NoMoreRepugs]

44. I have to believe this very action is being discussed in the Oval Office.

[onetexan]

65. Agree, given this has profound national security consequences POTUS needs to inject himself if it

comes down to that. I do think given DOJ has enough to indict the SOB that they should ignore this rogue RW judge and proceed w the indictment.

[TeamProg]

45. I suppose you are right. I hope you are right! I hope Joe follows

your advice!

[ZonkerHarris]

46. Nope. He should stay the fuck out of this and let the DOJ handle it. If Biden gets involved then

the GOP can say it's truly a political prosecution.

Let the law do its work.

[librechik]

60. Biden is the executor of law too. When you think about it, He's Garland's boss.

And they will accuse us of being political no matter what we do.

[ZonkerHarris]

61. Trump personally directing the FBI or DOJ director's actions was one of the big criticisms

of his administration.
Biden said when he came in that the AG needs to operate independently and follow the rule of law.
I do not see him diverging from that path.

[librechik]

62. If "God Wills it," it will happen. Even if (somehow) Joe gets the inspiration to make a change.

Don't listen to me. I am a daydreaming idiot. When all hope is lost, I comfort myself with foolish dreams.

[kacekwl]

47. Seriously they should ignore any requests from trump or

his loony lawyers. You know like Republicans ignore subpoenas. Like they fail to enforce laws they don't like.

[Fiendish Thingy]

48. I think something a little more nuanced is called for

Biden should issue a statement reaffirming, as ruled by SCOTUS in January, that TFG has no EP, and, as the incumbent president, he is not asserting EP over the seized documents.

Garland should issue a statement that DOJ will appeal the ruling, and will seek to change jurisdiction from FL to DC.

[scipan]

57. I like that. But I'm reading TDFG may have*some* limited EP. NT

[onenote]

52. What you're suggesting is the opposite of what President Biden should do.

Trump wants the documents to be subject to executive privilege, which would prevent them from being disclosed to (too late for that of course) or used (not too late) by DOJ. President Biden needs to say that to the extent Trump is claiming executive privilege with respect to any and all of the presidential records seized pursuant to the search warrant, the assertion of executive privilege is overruled and/or waived insofar as is necessary to disclose the documents to the DOJ, FBI, and other investigative agencies.

Ordinarily presidential documents are turned over to the Archives and once that happens, there is no question that the former president during whose term those documents were created can get access to them if they're not classified (and can get access to them if they are classified through a personal representative that has the requisite clearance). The quirk in this case is that these documents weren't turned over to the Archives, but there is an argument that they should be, and then the president can direct that they be re-released to DOJ, FBI, etc. If that had happened, there would have been less room for Cannon to make her cockamamie ruling.

[kentuck]

56. I think you are on the right track but...

I think it may be a little passive? In my opinion, the President and the DOJ need to be more aggressive in defending these documents because it appears that the former president and the judiciary have joined forces to cover up the crime and to protect the former president from being charged with any crimes.

[bringthePaine]

53. good time for a jazz solo...

[Sogo]

54. I like this idea!

[Captain Zero]

58. Maybe Obama and Bush should be given some too

Hell. They're former presidents too and both better than Trump.

Hell, give some of the Top Secret Documents to Jimmy Carter and he can put them in his Habitat for Humanity Homes.

[librechik]

59. ooh, I like this. Can Biden name himself the special master after that?

once again, a girl can dream.

[Imperialism Inc.]

64. That's not really going to work.

First of all, as someone else pointed out that just gives more credence to the Trump claim that it is political. Biden needs to stay out of it.

If the DOJ tell the judge to screw off it would wreck their chances in any prosecution. If they tried to rely on the things they collected any judge would likely (almost certainly?) exclude that information at trial since there was an order not to use it in place. If they don't let the SM look at the documents they cannot continue the investigation.

[kentuck]

67. Of course it's political.

It's not tiddlywinks.

I think Biden should still keep this option open. As a last resort to keep the classified documents out of the hands of those that should not have them.

He could order the DOJ not to turn them over.

[BootinUp]

68. I think he's going to say his DOJ will handle

That he has absolute confidence in them.

[kentuck]

69. The DOJ does not have "executive privilege".

Only the President has "executive privilege". Not the Judge or the Courts or Donald Trump.