Does a fetus have the right to hold its host hostage?

[onecaliberal]

Last edited Wed Sep 7, 2022, 04:56 PM - Edit history (1)

It can’t stand.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. Abortion as self-defense in the coming age of personhood:

https://www.alternet.org/2022/08/abortion-as-self-defense-personhood/

It’s long been an accepted legal principle that you are allowed to commit violence, or even murder, in defense of yourself or others. Every state and the District of Columbia have self-defense laws. There are a few shared principles that date back to common law.

You can claim self-defense if you use a proportional amount of violence in response to an imminent threat of unprovoked violence. The imminent threat is determined based on the “reasonable man” standard – is your fear of imminent violence reasonable?

Common law and most state laws say you have a “duty to retreat” unless you are in your own home. This means it is incumbent on you to try to leave, rather than commit violence, but you are not required to leave your own home. (So-called “stand your ground laws” have expanded self-defense so you never have a duty to retreat.) In order to claim that an abortion is an act of self-defense, you need to prove that you have a reasonable fear that your pregnancy could imminently cause you bodily harm and that an abortion is a proportional response to such an imminent threat.

Even the most successful and uncomplicated pregnancy enacts bodily harm on the pregnant person. Common side effects include incontinence, throwing up multiple times a day, bleeding gums, anemia, exhaustion and urinary tract infections.

[carpetbagger]

5. I've read enough ethics to have a direct response, but...

What stuck out at me was the "reasonable man" standard [sic]. I think that says it all. Our current abortion and ground standing laws both have clear indications that they were, in fact, written by men. I lean on the matter that most women who are declined abortions end up keeping their child rather than adopting out (note here that I'm talking about a binary choice, not indicative of a change of heart in terms of what they would have done or would have others done in the original situation), which indicates to me that they see their bodies and their fetuses in a light utterly foreign to the patriarchy that makes the decisions.

[Hekate]

2. According to those who hate women, yes

[DBoon]

3. only on behalf of white male christians

[Beakybird]

4. Yup.

😢

[markie]

6. organ donation

is supposed to be voluntary

[Brainfodder]

7. This whole fake outrage on abortion, they must not be good at math is my takeaway.