General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI don't care about the royal family. Monarchies shouldn't exist.
Yes, I know, the Queen Did so much for the world. Know who else couldve? Someone in a Democratically elected position.
Monarchies shouldnt exist in 2022, and its annoying American popular culture embraces the royal family so much. Their biggest claim to fame was being born. None of them seem exceptionally talented at anything or deserving of praise. They gather attention and money by merely existing.
The UK shouldve just dropped the title today once and for all. We fought a war to rid ourselves of this shit, and, Im fully comfortable in saying Democracy is vastly superior to Monarchy as a government structure. I know the royal family are just figure heads at this point, but, they need to be wiped out of American culture, much like all other forms of Authoritarian worship.
MichMan
(11,910 posts)Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Like I said, they are the royal family because they were born. No effort required.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)If countries want to have kings and queens, it's none of our business.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)How is that any different? There were a lot of shitty Kings in the past that were as bad, or worse than modern dictators.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)You're making yourself look ridiculous, but hey, that's your right to do so,
Carry on.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)Hav
(5,969 posts)it wouldn't be your business either to be the dictator yourself to tell them what's right for them.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)That's gonna leave a mark.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)You've really jumped the shark here, you need to step back from your keyboard, and take a deep breath.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)when I never said any such thing?
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)God, too funny.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)I only gave my opinion on whether or not the royal family should exist.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)jimfields33
(15,774 posts)Tourism is huge thanks to the royals. They provide a huge amount of the English budget. You get rid of royals and London is screwed beyond belief.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)The King of Prussia
(737 posts)"Buckingham Palace, 550k visitors. Palace of Versailles, 10m visitors. France, world's most visited country, palaces and royal history, 100m annual visitors. UK, a monarchy, 38m visitors annually."
elocs
(22,567 posts)It is none of our business and overall, 62% of the Brits approve of the monarchy and millions loved their queen, both conservatives and liberals. We can at least have empathy for those who loved their queen and mourn her death. Now to permanently ignore the clown who started this thread.
Srkdqltr
(6,271 posts)Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Ocelot II
(115,674 posts)By the way, those "socialist" hellholes, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and the Netherlands are also monarchies, and they are among the best-functioning, most liberal democracies in the world.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Kings and Queens belong in the dustbin of history, along with all other outdated political positions.
Ocelot II
(115,674 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)but what the hell, rant on.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)Solomon
(12,310 posts)inthewind21
(4,616 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Ron Green
(9,822 posts)care for the earth, something hes done for many years as a mere prince.
Show me an elected head of state whos doing that.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Ron Green
(9,822 posts)The Prime Minister is elected and must ultimately reflect the will of the people.
That public will may be effected by the King. Its worth a try.
hlthe2b
(102,226 posts)Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Have you ever heard of a Democratic King? Thats contradictory.
hlthe2b
(102,226 posts)That is the nuttiest thing I've heard today. Congratulations. It was a high bar.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)hlthe2b
(102,226 posts)started by Trump et al. By comparison, democracy in the UK is a whole hell of a lot more stable than the risks we face at the moment--especially if several SCOTUS decisions further dismantle the constitution as feared.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)is a great example of how we got here in the first place.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)Would that be a reason?
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Of course they want to stay in power. Theyre serenaded with money and fame for merely existing. Would you give up that position?
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)Exactly!!!
Why should you care what the Royal Family wants?
How is this any of your business?
For someone who doesn't care what the Royals want, you sure seem fixated on them.
Kind of weird.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Kind of a strange thing to say.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)Again, how is this any of your business?
Aren't countries allowed to have the govt they want?
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Ocelot II
(115,674 posts)They even restored the monarchy of Charles II after Oliver Cromwell tried to eliminate it. If the British people decide they don't want a monarchy any more they will decide how to phase it out, but in the meantime it's none of our business.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Ocelot II
(115,674 posts)Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Its (technically) giving power to one person. I think The Queen (and now King) didnt have much power in reality. However, their title is outdated and shouldnt exist in the modern world.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Oh god, please tell me you know that.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)They dont rule or justify their existence.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)This is pointless. Carry on.
ForgedCrank
(1,779 posts)History, heritage, remembering where one came from and being proud of that. Their monarchy has also left a lot of good in their wake.
These people have absolutely no governing powers and promote a lot of good causes, and they do it in an elegant way, if I might add.
In the US, we have a bunch of cheesey celebrities with loud mouths trying to do that work, and they are really shitty at it most of the time.
I'm not a follower of the whole royal family thing over there either, I don't really care about it. But I've seen nothing but good deeds through classy action come from it in modern days, so there's no reason at all to knock it.
BlueIdaho
(13,582 posts)Obviously not. Its a pity you have no idea what you are talking about.
Happy Hoosier
(7,289 posts)They are figurehead heads of state. They no longer wield any real political power. Its simply a cultural institution. Cool your jets.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)hlthe2b
(102,226 posts)Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)This thread is a hoot.
MOMFUDSKI
(5,503 posts)Why not just admit there is no such thing as queen and get on with it?
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)after a long day of driving, humor is exactly what I need, and this thread provided all the laughs I need for tonight.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Ever time I think DU has jumped the shark, one of these threads appears!
Thank you MCE!
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)Texasgal
(17,045 posts)I knew something like this might be posted but I never imagined the shear silliness of the OP's argument!
Mysterian
(4,585 posts)Is it good or bad to have a special class of people entitled to wealth and power just due to birth?
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)if a country wants to have a Monarchy or not, that's their right.
Mysterian
(4,585 posts)Would you be cool with that?
jimfields33
(15,774 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)Perfect answer.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)Ocelot II
(115,674 posts)BTW, King Haakon VII of Norway was elected King by the Norwegian parliament.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Ocelot II
(115,674 posts)But a number of free democracies in Europe are also monarchies: besides Britain, there's Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Andorra, Liechtenstein, Monaco, and Luxembourg. How else are those countries going to get rid of their evil authoritarian monarchs?
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Britain basically has anyways. Theyre 99% of the way there.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Ocelot II
(115,674 posts)and have had for centuries. These countries are representative democracies called constitutional monarchies, in which an elected parliament makes the laws, the prime minister is the head of government, and the monarch is the head of state. The monarch has little or no power over lawmaking but is informed and consulted. And the people of these countries seem quite uninterested in getting rid of their monarchs.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)prisoners
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)TheProle
(2,165 posts)I know the royal family are just figure heads at this point, but, they need to be wiped out of American culture, much like all other forms of Authoritarian worship.
How does one wipe out cultural affinity for another land and its customs without authoritarianism?
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)I was more expressing a distaste for Americas hero worship of rich people and unearned fame, and, I feel we should stop doing that.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)I know where you can find a group that would be positively giddy to have you join their cause in "wiping out" all thing you don't like. I'll just let that sit and sink in.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Please tell me you arent serious.
LeftInTX
(25,258 posts)The British Monarchy is not authoritarian
Also look all the authority Trump has an ex-president
We've got an authoritarian regime in the US
ITAL
(631 posts)I have no love for the Royal Family or a natural detestation.
However, I have a friend from Belgium (which also has a monarchy with mostly ceremonial power) who argues that having a ceremonial figure that everyone can get behind rather than just partisan wars makes politics a less vicious game somehow.
Irish_Dem
(46,924 posts)Including Gt Britain, our closest ally.
We have no room to tell other countries what to do.
Ocelot II
(115,674 posts)to get rid of their harmlessly authoritarian monarchs considering we elected a dangerous lunatic. I would happily take any of the existing monarchs anywhere in the world over TFG.
Irish_Dem
(46,924 posts)Americans seem behind the power curve on the British mindset.
The Brits support the monarchy, and King Charles and Queen Camilla.
The Brits are not falling over waiting for American opinions on any topic right now.
I don't blame them in the least.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Instead, they should do it and we should stop worshipping rich people who became rich by existing.
Irish_Dem
(46,924 posts)Yes we should take care of our own country before lecturing others.
msongs
(67,395 posts)Brenda
(1,050 posts)It seems to be a cult of personality for Americans which is weird considering we fought a war of independence from these Red Coats!
I do want to give my condolences to the Queen's family and friends.
Gaugamela
(2,496 posts)whats behind the MAGA cult. Theyre trying to redeem some awful father figure in their life.
ForgedCrank
(1,779 posts)made an excellent point that was relayed from a friend, and it was worded far better than what I could come up with.
A moderate and dignified monarchy such as is in Britain gives all the people a common ground to stand behind rather than the knife edged divide between political sides. I like that way of looking at it.They will fight and spit all day about policy, but neither side dares insult the Queen (well, unless you're Johnny rotten). But yes, I think you have the right idea.
LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)Elizabeth was a cool person.
She was a mechanic in WWII. Shes more than what you seem to give credit.
But hey, haters gonna hate.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Nothing against her. I just think her title is pointless.
multigraincracker
(32,674 posts)Most think other cultures are nuts, as the others think ours are. Once you learn this, you can then look to see if it has been successful or not.
LuckyCharms
(17,425 posts)Sorry to interrupt your thread.
I just thought people should know this, and I didn't know where else to post it.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)Response to LuckyCharms (Reply #40)
Baked Potato This message was self-deleted by its author.
Ocelot II
(115,674 posts)demmiblue
(36,841 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Well played!
gay texan
(2,442 posts)nolabear
(41,959 posts)betsuni
(25,472 posts)inthewind21
(4,616 posts)walkingman
(7,597 posts)our business. I think the Monarchy of Britain provides a unifying force for the nation - something that we desperately could use ourselves these days. Although the Monarchy is described as a constitutional monarchy which is mostly symbolic and is no threat to Britain's political system, it is (I think) a necessary part of the nation's culture and history.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Xolodno
(6,390 posts)Oh that's right, zero.
They are a cultural phenomena now and the nation wouldn't dare get rid of them. Why? They bring in tourist dollars. Nor is it our business.
Ocelot II
(115,674 posts)They are generally loved and respected as representatives of the country. And there hasn't been a European monarch as autocratic as TFG since Louis XIV.
malaise
(268,943 posts)sarisataka
(18,600 posts)They are just based on money, social media and skip the titles.
In the long run the cost our society more and produce less than traditional noble families.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)The Bush family for example.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)While I agree with your opposition to royalty or any caste system, the UK is not really run by the royals. They're no longer a threat to the US.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Torchlight
(3,327 posts)You care so little about something you are compelled to announce how little you care about it, why you care so little about it, and what you care so little about?
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)Nailed it.
Brainfodder
(6,423 posts)Based on the TFG nonsense, we haven't earned a new time yet?
Brainfodder
(6,423 posts)Based on the TFG nonsense, we haven't earned a new time yet?
Skittles
(153,150 posts)UGH
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Skittles
(153,150 posts)CAN"T YOU GIVE IT ONE FUCKING DAY
over and OUT
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)One day for what?
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)that means she's done with you and this thread.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Yes.
MustLoveBeagles
(11,591 posts)Skittles
(153,150 posts)as a child during WWII she was enormously comforted by a royal family that stayed put....
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Mom born the same year as the Queen.
Neither she nor my dad were big monarchy people, but they said exactly that about the comfort of the family staying put. Dad grew up in London, and his stories about the Blitz amazed me. The few he would tell
I think he was terrorized as a child by that experience.
Mom was in Wales, and she told many more stories. They really lived in a time we cant imagine.
bluecollar2
(3,622 posts)Born in Portsmouth and eventually moved to Petersfield to avoid the bombing.
Mum was Anglo-Burmese and was evacuated to India when the Japanese invaded Burma.
I was born in London in 57. There were still bombsites that hadn't been cleared I played in growing up.
The people who survived the war remember the Royals staying put and not evacuating to Canada.
48656c6c6f20
(7,638 posts)Because he is above the law so I guess we can't complain. Wonder where we got the idea of an imperial leader?
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)The only thing I did to earn the benefits of living in a democracy is that I was born here.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Kaleva
(36,294 posts)The head of state of Canada is King Charles III but he appoints, upon advice of the Canadian prime minister, a governor-grneral to perform his ,the King's, duties and functions in Canada. Australia, New Zealand and other members of the Commonwealth have similiar set ups.
GreenWave
(6,723 posts)Country (Empire, whatever) Wars we fought against them Ally?
England 1776 1812 (we win... In your face England!) Staunch
Germany WW1 WWII (we win) Staunch
Japan WWII (We win) Yes
Mexico Mex-Amer War (we win) Yes
Spain 1898 (we win) Yes
Russia! 1917 (we lose) No
Vietnam 1960's (we lose) No
Just a small sample but if we beat the snot out of you, you are our friends. If you win GRRRRRR!
ripcord
(5,346 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)ripcord
(5,346 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)...the part about how they don't actually hold any political power?
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)I hate the very idea of Kings and Queens existing, period. I also hate how the royal family is worshipped in the US. Even if the royal family is benign and powerless, I still dont see why they should be treated like celebrities.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)is that group I keep hearing about that also "just hates" a bunch of stuff and is working actively to make all their dislikes be wiped out and have everyone ese go along with what THEY like and dislike??
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Anyone who hates authoritarian government titles is a Fascist!!1!
JackSabbath
(153 posts)This whole thing where people are worshipped just because they are rich has to stop.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)inthewind21
(4,616 posts)is that you?
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Let them bury her first.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)a bit harder for others
treestar
(82,383 posts)will be higher covering someone else, maybe they can be wiped from American culture. But as long as they can get viewers with the RF, they will feature the RF.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Can you imagine if Justin Bieber died? Or JLO?
Sorry not a celebrity follower so I ran out of examples, but I guarantee you theyd take the news.
LeftInTX
(25,258 posts)BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)I remember that.
Oddly, one of those I remember where I was deaths.
LeftInTX
(25,258 posts)I did not believe him
I thought it was some weird rumor
The only site reporting his death was Pop Sugar, so I told my son, "This is a BS rumor"
A few minutes later, it was picked up mainstream.
treestar
(82,383 posts)in the middle of the night, someone in a room nearby screamed: "John Lennon's dead!" That's how I found out about that one.
LeftInTX
(25,258 posts)No info was given.
When I got to work, I asked a few people, "Did John Lennon die?" I worked in a very hostile environment. No one replied.
I didn't find out until I got out of work and bought a paper..
Ocelot II
(115,674 posts)That's basically what a monarch is in a constitutional monarchy - just a mascot, a national symbol. They have no more power than the Hamburglar or the Burger King, but if we call them mascots they won't carry that dangerous stank of authoritarianism. The lion is a symbol on the coat of arms of England, so the monarch/mascot could be something like this, only without the football:
See? That solves the problem - a mascot in a fuzzy costume can't possibly be a symbol of oppression!
MichMan
(11,910 posts)We've been forced to endure one of the most futile playoff records in any major sport
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Freedom House Score - United Kingdom-"monarchy" 93. United States -democratic republic- 83. We will be an authoritarian country before the "monarchy" will ever be.
jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)We have a ton of them over here. Feel free to start a thread about how Kim Kardashian doesn't deserve to be rich and famous but the royal family at this point, like hollywood, is all about escapism, not government.
Hekate
(90,645 posts)Shellback Squid
(8,914 posts)bluecollar2
(3,622 posts)I feel confident in saying that you are entitled to your opinion.
However as a Briton I reserve the right to opine on that opinion...and that is that you should catch a flight to the UK tonight and take your opinion into any pub in the UK tomorrow.
We Britons have our own opinions as to the Monarchy. Many of us support it and many of us believe that it should be abandoned.
I happen to believe in it. I understand, on a purely intellectual level, the arguments you put forth but what you cannot understand is the emotional level of support we have for our Monarchy.
My Queen meant something to me. She had been Queen for four years before I was born and was the one constant in my life.
I was comforted in knowing that her portrait was on postage stamps, the currency, and the phone boxes were emblazoned with her initials and a crown.
She was a symbol of kindness and decency in troubling times.
I will mourn for her and hope that King Charles will find a way to continue her legacy.
We are a nation of tradition. We will continue to drive on the left, we like double-deckers,, fish and chips, tea and scones, football and cricket and rugby, and a parliament with a House of Lords and a House of Commons.
We are proud of our heritage and traditions and all I ask is that you respect that.
Ocelot II
(115,674 posts)but have great respect for the late Queen and understand the affection felt for her by the people of of the UK. And it is not for us Americans to get up on our high horse and complain about another country's form of government, considering our antiquated, cumbersome and inequitable method of choosing presidents, which made possible the election of a con man and demagogue with far more authoritarian tendencies than any monarch since Louis XIV. Our condolences to you and your countrymen on the loss of your Queen.
bluecollar2
(3,622 posts)I know the vast majority of people feel the same way as you.
We'll go through our grieving process and I'm sure the Kingdom and Commonwealth will struggle with the transition and future direction but in the end the only thing that matters is that the Queen served us ably and honourably.
She kept her promise.
treestar
(82,383 posts)These same people, if of the US, likely carry that attitude on to the US anyway. England's heritage and traditions are part of ours - the common law, the English language, and other things that the USA continued with, if not a monarchy, then at least at one time we were under that monarchy. If we were proud of our heritage and traditions, then to some extent at least that could be continued on to the "mother country." (And why it it called that).
Others colonized, conquered and did all those evil things too - it was of the times, not that the one country was particularly successful at it.
JI7
(89,247 posts)have power .
JI7
(89,247 posts)System . The UK actually has elections where people with more votes actually win and they hold the real power in the country .
But the US has a system where someone can get more votes but still not be elected .
DFW
(54,358 posts)Putin and Xi think our system doesn't work for them. Britain has existed for a thousand years with their monarchy. Even if Charles I lost his head over the matter, Cromwell was awful, too, and the monarchy was restored. George III was a little nuts. Reagan and Trump weren't? Unless a country declares war on us and states our destruction/conquest as their goal, as a rule, we don't go around imposing our way of life on them, trying to obliterate traditions they have that are older than we are. A Constitutional Monarchy IS a democracy, and if the people of a nation wish to keep that tradition, who are we to tell them they're wrong?
Go to some foreign culture and tell them you have a superior way of life to offer. Like the proverbial village in subsaharan Africa, they have every right to shout back, "HAZOONGAH!"
Straw Man
(6,623 posts)... for having a ceremonial head of state who is outside of partisan politics. It has to do with a sense of an overarching national identity and continuity of governance despite shifting political alignments -- things we Americans are noticeably deficient in at this particular historical moment.
Raine
(30,540 posts)Last edited Fri Sep 9, 2022, 05:31 AM - Edit history (1)
who could bring us all together above politics.
LeftInTX
(25,258 posts)When we decided that we would have an "Executive" run our country....
raccoon
(31,110 posts)cherish44
(2,566 posts)But that's just my opinion man. If you dig them, dig them. I'm sad that a human being has died.
betsuni
(25,472 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I have the misfortune of living in one of those totalitarian, authoritarian, despot-run constitutional monarchies. I always thought I knew what terms like authoritarianism and monarchy meant, but after reading yr OP, I feel enlightened and realise how ignorant my world view has been up till now. I was wrong for being relieved that the Queen was our head of state and not some ugly, orange former reality tv star who had a liking for hatred and division.
I felt a bit weird this morning coz it was a bit like when my nanna died, and it got super weird when they talked about King Charles on the news. But then I got onto the serious stuff like wondering whether the Queen's birthday long weekend will get renamed, what will happen to QC's (Queen's Counsels) and a lot of thinking about coins and notes with the Queen on them, and why is it that the $5 note is the only note with the Queen on it? And because the debate over becoming a republic resurfaced quickly, I thought about how good it is that I don't care one way or the other, because if I thought the monarchy shouldn't exist in my country, that'd make me an Australian republican, which could make things a little bit awkward here at DU.
Roisin Ni Fiachra
(2,574 posts)Good for them. It's a remnant and reminder of a vicious, greedy, lethal, imperialistic, white supremacist empire that exploited, enslaved, impoverished, dispossessed, and genocided indigenous folk all over the world.
I'm hoping Scotland and the 6 counties in the north of Ireland kick the English monarchy, and its fascist government, to the curb ASAP.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)"It's a remnant and reminder of a vicious, greedy, lethal, imperialistic, white supremacist empire that exploited, enslaved, impoverished, dispossessed, and genocided indigenous folk all over the world."
You do realize you just described the US.
brooklynite
(94,503 posts)Its their country. If the population wanted to eliminate the monarchy, the could do so.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,853 posts)... of my serf ancestors living under feudalism, not free to even travel without the permission of their local lords, and having the efforts of their labor in the fields taken away to enrich the nobles and the monarchs. Not to mention "ius primae noctis", granting the local feudal lords the right to sexual relations with the serf-women on the night of their wedding.
I agree that monarchies SHOULD not exist, but it's up to other countries how they do things.
Edit: How it should've been centuries ago...
Dysfunctional
(452 posts)It is a shame their population is dwindling.
Response to Oneironaut (Original post)
traitorsgalore This message was self-deleted by its author.