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yaesu

(8,020 posts)
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 01:21 PM Sep 2022

Ukraine: Russian military command has suspended the sending of new units into Ukraine

The military command of the Russian federation has stopped sending new units into Ukraine following a dramatic Ukrainian counter-offensive that has reshaped the war and left Moscow reeling, the general staff of the armed forces of Ukraine said Monday.

“The military command of the Russian federation has suspended the sending of new, already formed units into the territory of Ukraine,” officials said on the general staff Facebook page.

“The current situation in the theatre of operations and distrust of the higher command forced a large number of volunteers to categorically refuse the prospect of service in combat conditions,” the statement continued. “The situation is affected by information about the actual number of dead, while losses from private military companies and those mobilised from temporarily occupied territories are not taken into account. The situation worsens due to the general attitude toward their own wounded. In particular, in Russian hospitals, diagnoses and the nature of combat injuries are deliberately simplified and no time is given for rehabilitation in order to quickly return servicemen to the combat zone.”

Per Guardian live feed

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Ukraine: Russian military command has suspended the sending of new units into Ukraine (Original Post) yaesu Sep 2022 OP
I do not trust the Russians .... Lovie777 Sep 2022 #1
This is another decision that they act like they have a choice in. ColinC Sep 2022 #2
Russia is blaming the troops dsweet Sep 2022 #3
Does no one blame Putin and the oligarchs? ananda Sep 2022 #12
That sounds like a really optimistic statement. Chainfire Sep 2022 #4
Thank you for the 1944 lesson. EndlessWire Sep 2022 #5
Russian recruits are demoralized, badly trained, badly equipped, and badly led. Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #6
Even it Ukraine wins this war, hands down, there may be long term negative ramifications. Chainfire Sep 2022 #7
I don't see the oligarchs willingly giving up their spoils. Just A Box Of Rain Sep 2022 #8
The Nicholas family wanted to keep their ill gotten gains too. Chainfire Sep 2022 #9
All 1917 did was replace 1 ruling elite with another Kaleva Sep 2022 #13
Of course that is true, but sometimes it is necessary to sweep out the old trash and start afresh. Chainfire Sep 2022 #14
That is the only way to make major changes Kaleva Sep 2022 #16
Failed logistics and broken supply lines are a big problem. G2theD Sep 2022 #18
I do believe Putin would rather lose the war than admit a mistake. Torchlight Sep 2022 #10
Putin need not admit a mistake GregariousGroundhog Sep 2022 #15
He is close to that. G2theD Sep 2022 #19
That should be easy enough to determine. lpbk2713 Sep 2022 #11
Agreed. The word must be out through the ranks that you are likely to die. Most rational folks Evolve Dammit Sep 2022 #17
In 1917 my Russian peasant grandparents looked at each other and said,"we're outa here." housecat Sep 2022 #20
A general arrives and promises a quick victory with one offensive after months of slogging Torchlight Sep 2022 #21

ColinC

(8,289 posts)
2. This is another decision that they act like they have a choice in.
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 01:39 PM
Sep 2022

When in reality sending more people will be political (or for some, actual) suicide.

dsweet

(123 posts)
3. Russia is blaming the troops
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 01:48 PM
Sep 2022

IMHO, for all of this:

Now I have no love for the average Russian soldier, but those sorry bastards are not the reason the invasion is turning into a shit-show. Field Marshall Putin is the reason.

These sorry bastards are going to be hated for decades in Russia. It looks like the propagandist are trying to ensure that: blaming the soldiers for a lack of confidence in the command. A command that doesn’t give a shit about them.

Putin and his regime has to be held accountable. Unfortunately, once the Russian people cast aside an oppressive yoke, they submit their necks to the next. So this is just a shit-carrousel that will have to be dealt with every few decades.

ananda

(28,858 posts)
12. Does no one blame Putin and the oligarchs?
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 03:21 PM
Sep 2022

... who siphoned off money and pretty much left the
military in a pretty sorry state.

Chainfire

(17,530 posts)
4. That sounds like a really optimistic statement.
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 02:01 PM
Sep 2022

I hope that it is true and that "Stopped" doesn't mean "temporarily stopped" or "delayed." You have to take into consideration how much Putin has invested in the war, and the personal cost to him of "stopping" to reinforce the occupying troops. That would be an admission that the war (and probably his head) was lost.

It is good strategy to project optimistic outlooks and suggest that the enemy is defeated. Troops who know that there is nothing behind them tend to want to stop fighting, and not be the last causality of a lost war. I would be more optimistic if the Russians were so depressed over the situation that they changed leaders at a higher level than general officers.

We have seen a very successful offensive, but we haven't seen a Russian defeat. We will know when Ukraine is victorious when we see a return of the pre '14 borders, and Russian troops returned to their barracks.

I can't help but to think back to the Winter of 1944 when the Americans were resting troops in a quite sector and anticipating a quick end of the war. Eisenhower and his staff made the error of preparing for what they thought the enemy would do, not what he was capable of doing. The big question today is what are the Russians still capable of doing. Time will tell.

Regardless of what is in the future, the present looks rosy for Ukraine. It appears to be a nation of heroes.

EndlessWire

(6,513 posts)
5. Thank you for the 1944 lesson.
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 02:22 PM
Sep 2022

It's probably applicable to many different situations.

I think Zelensky will take back Crimea. I'm not sure what they will do with the free bridge.

 

Just A Box Of Rain

(5,104 posts)
6. Russian recruits are demoralized, badly trained, badly equipped, and badly led.
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 02:41 PM
Sep 2022

Many are refusing to deploy.

Armies with low morale, incompetent leadership, lack of supplies, and no will to fight simply don't win wars.

Chainfire

(17,530 posts)
7. Even it Ukraine wins this war, hands down, there may be long term negative ramifications.
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 03:01 PM
Sep 2022

Russia may have realized that it can't live off of past glory and may stop buying so many yachts and start investing in an army capable of winning a limited ground war. The have probably been snug and happy with the MAD option and didn't think that they needed a modern ground fighting force. That lesson may hit home, or maybe not. Building and maintaining a professional army is an expensive proposition, and it can't happen overnight. We used to worry about massed Russian armor and troops streaming through the Fulda Gap to run amuck through Europe. That now seems like a pathetic joke.

It might be time for the Russians to reexperience 1917 and rid themselves of their modern-day royal masters. A good start would be a gulag full of oligarchs. In fact, in a show of solidarity, we could send them our surplus oligarchs and rotten politicians as well. Some Russian could write a novel about "One Day In The Life of Denisovich J. Trump."

 

Just A Box Of Rain

(5,104 posts)
8. I don't see the oligarchs willingly giving up their spoils.
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 03:08 PM
Sep 2022

And building a modern military takes things Russia does not possess.

That includes unfettered access to computer chips and other high tech components and a culture of military professionalism.

They have a corrupt kleptocracy that won't be easy to reform.

I had a very dim assessment of the Russian military prior to the UKR invasion myself. The war has gone as I figured it would, assuming the supply of UKR forces by NATO.

No surprises here.

Chainfire

(17,530 posts)
9. The Nicholas family wanted to keep their ill gotten gains too.
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 03:11 PM
Sep 2022

That is where the rerun of 1917 comes in. There is nothing like a bunch of pissed off peasants with pitchforks and torches.

Chainfire

(17,530 posts)
14. Of course that is true, but sometimes it is necessary to sweep out the old trash and start afresh.
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 03:29 PM
Sep 2022

I it better than doing nothing.

G2theD

(593 posts)
18. Failed logistics and broken supply lines are a big problem.
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 04:12 PM
Sep 2022

Troops having to steal food and water from residents!

Also they are sending WWII era equipment because their “modern” equipment has been destroyed.
Their vehicles have all been poorly maintained and keep breaking down.

Their morale must be rock bottom. I’m thinking they are close to surrendering en masse or banding together to overcome their leaders and going home.

Hopefully Putin will “die in his sleep’” soon. But the next guy may not be any better.

Torchlight

(3,327 posts)
10. I do believe Putin would rather lose the war than admit a mistake.
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 03:12 PM
Sep 2022

More's the pity if so, as he alone could end this conflict this afternoon with one phone call to Kiev. But his greed for power and his gluttony for excess, all at the expense of innocents, will continue until he's desperately cornered and has no furhter recourse; and that's the scenario most frightening to me.

I think in the end, Putin's eagerness to create a Greater Russia will lead directly to its undoing. But I do hope the end arrives sooner rather than later.

GregariousGroundhog

(7,518 posts)
15. Putin need not admit a mistake
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 03:44 PM
Sep 2022

He could declare the special military operation a failure, fire the entire military high command, have them tried for corruption and graft, send them off to a remote penal colony somewhere, and begin the process of rebuilding Russia's military.

The thing with such an action is that it wouldn't even be a show trial. The Russian military largely is rotten to the core. The Ukrainian military largely rolled over when Russia invaded in 2014, and they've made great strides in their subsequent reforms. There's no reason Russia couldn't do the same thing. The only question is will they?

lpbk2713

(42,753 posts)
11. That should be easy enough to determine.
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 03:19 PM
Sep 2022


By interviewing the next batch of Russian troops captured by the Ukrainians.

And they capture many every day. Many simply throw down their weapons and surrender.


Evolve Dammit

(16,723 posts)
17. Agreed. The word must be out through the ranks that you are likely to die. Most rational folks
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 04:09 PM
Sep 2022

don't want to die. Overwhelmingly. And your supplies suck. And your leaders suck. Maybe they can ultimately change things?

housecat

(3,121 posts)
20. In 1917 my Russian peasant grandparents looked at each other and said,"we're outa here."
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 04:17 PM
Sep 2022

Their boys (my father included) were all born in and fought for the U.S. in WWII

Torchlight

(3,327 posts)
21. A general arrives and promises a quick victory with one offensive after months of slogging
Mon Sep 12, 2022, 04:25 PM
Sep 2022

through a morass of defeatism and setbacks. The offensive stalls and is then turned back short of a route.

This, the Second Battle of the Aisne in 1917, a strategic and tactical failure, resulted in a French army that pledged to remain in their trenches and were willing to defend but refused orders to attack. By the end of spring, over 20 French divisions mutinied, and revolts occurred in another 20 divisions.

There's always a particular in history that counters, or even denies another particular, and projecting 100 year old sentiments on the here and now is not an accurate thing, but I do think it in Putin's best interest to allow his army to advance to the rear, out of Ukraine and avoid what looks more and more to be a route of his army.

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