Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
What the cannon fodder is being issued... (Original Post) Pluvious Sep 2022 OP
I am awaiting word if my friend got his orders. Tetrachloride Sep 2022 #1
So he conscripts 300,000 soldiers and doesn't have decent weapons for them. Jim__ Sep 2022 #2
I don't mean this cynically but Russia has never had a problem throws bodies at a war underpants Sep 2022 #3
Yeah, but its not like the old days. temporary311 Sep 2022 #11
Also, the Russians lost 20% of their population in WW2 Victor_c3 Sep 2022 #16
No but it hasn't always been succesful Kaleva Sep 2022 #13
How many guns could Putin buy if he sold one of his yachts? Midnight Writer Sep 2022 #4
Going to war with the army you have cbabe Sep 2022 #5
"I wouldn't take this rusty piece of shit to war." rsdsharp Sep 2022 #6
Making of Guns With Hands in Pakistan keithbvadu2 Sep 2022 #7
it doesn't matter what guns they are issued..... or any at all.... getagrip_already Sep 2022 #8
Excellent points but they will try and shoot drones. grantcart Sep 2022 #9
+1, and RA is still centralizing it's artillery storage to the point they can be blown up .... uponit7771 Sep 2022 #10
they have to keep their ammo centralized, their logistics model doesn't allow other options Amishman Sep 2022 #23
Based on just the looks of that equipment, the Russians will likely die from a mishap of these Pachamama Sep 2022 #12
Putin intends to close off "the" border? DFW Sep 2022 #14
We need to get out our war protest songs. GreenWave Sep 2022 #15
That reminds me of Pink Floyd... Pluvious Sep 2022 #25
I thought, I will check out their lyrics and see. GreenWave Sep 2022 #26
When the new Russian soldiers enter Ukraine they should surrender Emile Sep 2022 #17
From what I have been reading, a lot of them intend to do just that. GoCubsGo Sep 2022 #19
AK's are virtually indestructible NickB79 Sep 2022 #18
They're terrible at intercepting incoming artillery. Hermit-The-Prog Sep 2022 #20
Almost better then the 81 year old rifles designed in 1882 the troops in the Donbas were getting EX500rider Sep 2022 #21
Russian Casualties Sympathy level yortsed snacilbuper Sep 2022 #22
What Putin does not understand is he is opening the Ukraine border for the new soldiers to surrender Emile Sep 2022 #24
Good grief Genki Hikari Sep 2022 #27

Jim__

(14,075 posts)
2. So he conscripts 300,000 soldiers and doesn't have decent weapons for them.
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 01:14 PM
Sep 2022

Time for Putin to pull his head out of his ass.

temporary311

(955 posts)
11. Yeah, but its not like the old days.
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 02:58 PM
Sep 2022

They got away with it in WW2 because it was an existential fight, they received something like 15 billion (in 1940s dollars) via lend-lease, and the average Russian woman had like 5 kids.

Today, its an invasion of choice by a madman trying to Frankenstein the Soviet Union back into existence, the country they're invading is getting the lend-lease, and the average Russian woman has like 1.2 kids, with a significant percent of those kids having fetal alcohol syndrome.

Victor_c3

(3,557 posts)
16. Also, the Russians lost 20% of their population in WW2
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 06:45 PM
Sep 2022

I feel this stunt will lead to the overthrow of Putin once the losses really start to rise.

cbabe

(3,539 posts)
5. Going to war with the army you have
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 01:23 PM
Sep 2022
https://www.motherjones.com › politics › 2005 › 03 › going-war-army-you-have

"Going to War With the Army You Have" - Mother Jones

The answer lies just beneath the surface of Donald Rumsfeld's now infamous statement, "You go to war with the Army you have.". This is a comment pregnant with meaning for organizational ...

https://www.nbcnews.com › id › wbna4731185

Frantically, the Army tries to armor Humvees - NBC News

When Hart died in a small-arms ambush in mid-October, the Army had no official plan to "retrofit" most of the 12,000-odd Humvees in Iraq. This in spite of continuing attacks on convoys and...

rsdsharp

(9,165 posts)
6. "I wouldn't take this rusty piece of shit to war."
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 01:52 PM
Sep 2022
https://m.


Jesus, did they bury those rifles in mud? They don’t have cosmoline in Russia?

getagrip_already

(14,708 posts)
8. it doesn't matter what guns they are issued..... or any at all....
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 02:36 PM
Sep 2022

80% of the casualties in this war have been caused by artillery. Troops aren't dying in street fighting, or as light infantry troops clash with each other. Sometimes, but not the bulk of the deaths.

They are dying when they git hit by heavy weapons.. Rifles don't help.

What russian doctrine calls for is for the infantry to probe enemy defenses backed by artillery (tanks and fixed guns). When they encounter resistance, they typically die quickly by heavy machine gun fire and mortar rounds. If they caught in fields big guns fire air bursts above them.

Then the russian tanks pull back and pummel the area with shell fire. Then they try again with fresh troops another day, or in another place. Rinse, lather, repeat.

When they finally take a town, it is usually rubble with few surviving residents.

Most of the rifles issued will never be fired.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
10. +1, and RA is still centralizing it's artillery storage to the point they can be blown up ....
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 02:47 PM
Sep 2022

... with surgical strikes and shut down their whole offensive strategy.

More troops looks like more cowbell right now until Russia fixes the part where they cannot mass troops, etc. Without them getting blown up by long range artillery like HIMars etc

Amishman

(5,555 posts)
23. they have to keep their ammo centralized, their logistics model doesn't allow other options
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 06:45 AM
Sep 2022

Command is to slow and cumbersome to coordinate distribution from a decentralized network.

Their bizarre reliance on loading and unloading everything by hand ties up truck far longer at each destination, and means each stop need abundant manpower to handle it.

Their shortage of trucks means they can't handle the extra trips from spreading out their ammo dumps.

Also given their huge problem with corruption and theft, they keep supplies centralized to keep their own people from stealing and selling off materials.

They lack the expertise and equipment to change their methods much.

Pachamama

(16,887 posts)
12. Based on just the looks of that equipment, the Russians will likely die from a mishap of these
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 03:08 PM
Sep 2022

…weapons jamming or worse.

Munitions and equipment not properly maintained is dangerous and likely to malfunction

DFW

(54,341 posts)
14. Putin intends to close off "the" border?
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 03:44 PM
Sep 2022

Russia’s borders with other countries, plus its coastline, make the concept of “the border” a laugh when referring to the Russian Federation. Russia, including Belarus, since Lukashenko is Putin’s stooge at this point, has borders with Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Turkey, Poland (Belarus border), its restless Caucasian neighbors and the “stans” of Central Asia, China, Mongolia, and the Pacific coast. I leave out North Korea deliberately, as Russian guys will not be streaming across that border. But there are so many borders, VVP will never be able to block them all.

Someone ought to send him some Vietnam era protests from the USA, remind him of what “hell, no, we won’t go!” means, and why it was heard so loud and so often.

GreenWave

(6,723 posts)
15. We need to get out our war protest songs.
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 05:10 PM
Sep 2022

Transcribe them in the Cyrillic.

This is one I can never find except this excerpt

High above the city
He's manning his station
He's dropping his cool
On the demonstration.

Pluvious

(4,308 posts)
25. That reminds me of Pink Floyd...
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 12:20 PM
Sep 2022

“Foreword, he cried from the rear. And the front ranks died.”

“The general he sat, and the lines on the map, moved from side to side”

GreenWave

(6,723 posts)
26. I thought, I will check out their lyrics and see.
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 01:53 PM
Sep 2022

They have about 2,000 songs. I had no idea. Still it may solve the mystery.

GoCubsGo

(32,079 posts)
19. From what I have been reading, a lot of them intend to do just that.
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 08:52 PM
Sep 2022

Can't say I wouldn't do the same.

NickB79

(19,233 posts)
18. AK's are virtually indestructible
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 08:48 PM
Sep 2022

You literally can bury them in mud and they'll still work once you hose them down.

The only issue would be if the internals rusted enough to affect cycling. Or, if the ammo was stored in similarly crappy conditions.

EX500rider

(10,839 posts)
21. Almost better then the 81 year old rifles designed in 1882 the troops in the Donbas were getting
Sat Sep 24, 2022, 11:30 PM
Sep 2022
That’s right. A 19th Century rifle, first fielded when the phonograph was cutting edge technology and James Garfield was President, is reportedly showing up on a 21st Century battlefield.
I mean, c’mon. This rifle was first manufactured the same year that the coward Bob Ford assassinated the outlaw Jesse James.



?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1499765852601827335%7Ctwgr%5E8c7af7e805061b2ae38e1c8cb7d045403facdeac%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.embedly.com%2Fwidgets%2Fmedia.html%3Ftype%3Dtext2Fhtmlkey%3Da19fcc184b9711e1b4764040d3dc5c07schema%3Dtwitterurl%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fwar_noir%2Fstatus%2F1499765852601827335image%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Fi.embed.ly%2F1%2Fimage3Furl3Dhttps253A252F252Fabs.twimg.com252Ferrors252Flogo46x38.png26key3Da19fcc184b9711e1b4764040d3dc5c07

Emile

(22,668 posts)
24. What Putin does not understand is he is opening the Ukraine border for the new soldiers to surrender
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 07:37 AM
Sep 2022
 

Genki Hikari

(1,766 posts)
27. Good grief
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 06:28 PM
Sep 2022

I don't remember much from my gun care class, but I wouldn't want to use any of these to defend myself.

How could any supposed modern military let its materiel get in such wretched condition, other than rampant corruption?

In a real military without out of control corruption, these guns would have been stored in better conditions and set up with routine maintenance. You don't have to baby the guns, but, jeez Louise, you do have to keep them protected from humidity, clean and oil them once in a while, check functionality, and so on.

Some of them might--might--be salvageable. Rust in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean the gun is unusable. However that would depend on:

a) If the corrosion hasn't advanced to the point that there's serious degradation of the metal, especially the barrels (gun nuts and metal workers have a term for the degradation that I can't remember);

and

b) If these poor saps would get both the time and materials to bring the guns they can save up to snuff.

Given how far gone the rot has infected every part of Russia, I don't have high hopes of either being the case. These poor kids are being sent to their slaughter unprotected, and all for one puny man's fragile ego. Russia has never been a functional nation, in any of its iterations, but this latest one has taken dysfunction to ridiculous extremes.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»What the cannon fodder is...