Mon Oct 10, 2022, 10:53 AM

TeamProg (3,017 posts)

The framers borrowed from the Iroquois Confederacy and the Great Law of Peace

The founders and framers of the Constitution certainly did not declare the Colonies or the U.S. as a Christian nation.

The simple fact is that "America" was already discovered and that a society with a form of representation here!

https://www.pbs.org/native-america/blogs/native-voices/how-the-iroquois-great-law-of-peace-shaped-us-democracy/

Iroquois Confederacy and the Great Law of Peace / United States Constitution. Their constitution, recorded and kept alive on a two row wampum belt7, held many concepts familiar to United States citizens today.

Iroquois Confederacy Restricts members from holding more than one oﬃce in the Confederacy.

United States Constitution Article I, Section 6, Clause 2, also known as the Ineligibility Clause or the Emoluments Clause bars members of serving members of Congress from holding oﬃces established by the federal government, while also baring members of the executive branch or judicial branch from serving in the U.S. House or Senate.

Iroquois Confederacy Outlines processes to remove leaders within the Confederacy

United States Constitution Article II, Section 4 reads “The President, Vice President and all civil Oﬃcers of the United States shall be removed from Oﬃce on Impeachment for, and the conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors.”

Iroquois Confederacy Designates two branches of legislature with procedures for passing laws

United States Constitution Article I, Section 1, or the Vesting Clauses, read “All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.” It goes on to outline their legislative powers.

Iroquois Confederacy Delineates who has the power to declare war

United States Constitution Article I, Section 8, Clause 11, also known as the War Powers Clause, gives Congress the power, “To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;”

Iroquois Confederacy Creates a balance of power between the Iroquois Confederacy and individual tribes

United States Constitution The diﬀering duties assigned to the three branches of the U.S. Government: Legislative (Congress), Executive (President), and Judicial (Supreme Court) act to balance and separate power in government.

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13 replies	Author	Time	Post
The framers borrowed from the Iroquois Confederacy and the Great Law of Peace (Original post)	TeamProg	Oct 2022	OP
Wonderful! Who knew?	Mme. Defarge	Oct 2022	#1
Wow! They don't teach this in hs history classes.	triron	Oct 2022	#2
Geez, you're right. We should all write letters.. Seriously. n/t	TeamProg	Oct 2022	#4
Thanks for this. I had heard of it quite a few years ago, but not in depth & need to follow up....	Hekate	Oct 2022	#3
And King George's Royal Proclaimation of 1763 was the main impetus for the Revolution	TheBlackAdder	Oct 2022	#5
Wow, intersting! n/t	TeamProg	Oct 2022	#7
Yeah, apparently the poachers, rapists & squatters getting killed didn't go over too well.	TheBlackAdder	Oct 2022	#10
Except, of course, that the Proclamation was largely ignored in the colonies. n/t	malthaussen	Oct 2022	#9
Fascinating	nuxvomica	Oct 2022	#6
Or developed the ideas independently.	malthaussen	Oct 2022	#8
Come on, man.. All you had to do was open the PBS story and in the first paragraph..	TeamProg	Oct 2022	#11
The answer is simple.	H2O Man	Oct 2022	#12
Ah, documentation.	malthaussen	Oct 2022	#13

Response to TeamProg (Original post)

Mon Oct 10, 2022, 11:14 AM

Mme. Defarge (7,721 posts)

1. Wonderful! Who knew?

Thank you for sharing this.

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Response to Mme. Defarge (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 10, 2022, 11:20 AM

triron (20,916 posts)

2. Wow! They don't teach this in hs history classes.

Wonder why.

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Response to triron (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 10, 2022, 11:25 AM

TeamProg (3,017 posts)

4. Geez, you're right. We should all write letters.. Seriously. n/t

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Response to TeamProg (Original post)

Mon Oct 10, 2022, 11:24 AM

Hekate (81,856 posts)

3. Thanks for this. I had heard of it quite a few years ago, but not in depth & need to follow up....

Bookmarking.

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Response to TeamProg (Original post)

Mon Oct 10, 2022, 11:27 AM

TheBlackAdder (25,751 posts)

5. And King George's Royal Proclaimation of 1763 was the main impetus for the Revolution

.

Taxation sounds to noble, but it was really the prevention of colonial expansion into Native territory that pissed off the colonists.

The Royal Proclamation of 1763 was issued by King George III on 7 October 1763. It followed the Treaty of Paris (1763), which formally ended the Seven Years' War and transferred French territory in North America to Great Britain.[1] The Proclamation forbade all settlements west of a line drawn along the Appalachian Mountains, which was delineated as an Indian Reserve.[2] Exclusion from the vast region of Trans-Appalachia created discontent between Britain and colonial land speculators and potential settlers. The proclamation and access to western lands was one of the first significant areas of dispute between Britain and the colonies and would become a contributing factor leading to the American Revolution.[3] The 1763 proclamation line is situated similar to the Eastern Continental Divide, extending from Georgia to the divide's northern terminus near the middle of the northern border of Pennsylvania, where it intersects the northeasterly St. Lawrence Divide, and extends further through New England.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Proclamation_of_1763

Crimes were to the East were judged by colonial law, crime to the West faced Native American justice.

.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #5)

Mon Oct 10, 2022, 11:32 AM

TeamProg (3,017 posts)

7. Wow, intersting! n/t

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Response to TeamProg (Reply #7)

Mon Oct 10, 2022, 11:37 AM

TheBlackAdder (25,751 posts)

10. Yeah, apparently the poachers, rapists & squatters getting killed didn't go over too well.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #5)

Mon Oct 10, 2022, 11:36 AM

malthaussen (15,778 posts)

9. Except, of course, that the Proclamation was largely ignored in the colonies. n/t

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Response to TeamProg (Original post)

Mon Oct 10, 2022, 11:29 AM

nuxvomica (11,313 posts)

6. Fascinating

And Native-American influence on modern life may be even deeper as French missionaries may have brought their ideas to Europe, inspiring the Enlightenment.

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Response to TeamProg (Original post)

Mon Oct 10, 2022, 11:35 AM

malthaussen (15,778 posts)

8. Or developed the ideas independently.

One would have to show a direct link from the Great Law of Peace to the US Constitution. How do we know the Framers had even heard about it? Several of those ideas were mooted in political theory and philosophy for a very long time indeed, stretching back to before there was any contact with the Five (Six) Nations.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 10, 2022, 11:59 AM

TeamProg (3,017 posts)

11. Come on, man.. All you had to do was open the PBS story and in the first paragraph..

is this!

" The Iroquois Confederacy, founded by the Great Peacemaker in 1142, is the oldest living participatory democracy on earth. In 1988, the U.S. Senate paid tribute with a resolution that said, "The confederation of the original 13 colonies into one republic was inﬂuenced by the political system developed by the Iroquois Confederacy, as were many of the democratic principles which were incorporated into the constitution itself. "

I have to assume that the Senate at the time had the correct info.. Why would they go out on a limb if they did not?

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 10, 2022, 12:30 PM

H2O Man (70,600 posts)

12. The answer is simple.

Study history. The idea that the Founding Fathers were not familiar with the system of government of the Iroquois Confederacy requires an ignorance of history. Men like Franklin and Madison had long, well-documented years of experience in dealing with both each of the Confederacy's Council of Chiefs, and with Grand Council of Chiefs. Perhaps the easiest example to illustrate this is found in Franklin's 1754 Albany Plan of Union, which laid the groundwork for the Articles of Confederation, which would morph into the Constitution. Ben's plan was a direct result of his meeting with a number of Iroquois leaders in Albany. That anyone who graduated from high school would not be familiar with the Albany Plan and the Articles of Confederation -- both of which document Iroquois influence -- says a lot about how poor a job our educational system does.

For a fairly recent and much expanded resource documenting the relationship between the Iroquois and Founding Fathers, one could read "Exiled in the Land of the Free: Democracy, Indian Nations, & the U.S. Constitution."
https://www.amazon.com/Exiled-Land-Free-Democracy-Constitution/dp/0940666502

I'll add that more information documenting the relationship between the Iroquois and Founding Fathers can be found in simply studying the Revolutionary War. That is how "we know the Framers had even heard of it."

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #12)

Mon Oct 10, 2022, 02:33 PM

malthaussen (15,778 posts)

13. Ah, documentation.

Love to see it.

Definitely not something taught in High School, or it wasn't when I was in high school (admittedly, times were much cruder then). I knew that several of the Europeans were in contact with the Confederation, often to the detriment of the latter (though the Iroquois did a much better job of playing off the different European factions against each other than some of the other tribes). I didn't know that any of them had overtly acknowledged that they had been influenced by the indigenous culture.

-- Mal

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