General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFinancial Times: While Putin doubles down in Ukraine, his gas gambit is failing
https://www.ft.com/content/be331b8e-3a24-4941-b6d0-aa3041f789cf?ftcamp=traffic/partner/feed_headline/us_yahoo/auddev"While Russia needs to sell the EU its natural gas, Europe no longer needs these supplies. Gas is becoming a buyers market. The energy crunch should be no threat to unified support for Ukraine, let alone Europeans comfort this winter, despite Putins machinations.
Analysis of underlying supply patterns reveals that, contrary to common belief, Europe is securing enough gas and liquefied natural gas from global markets to fully substitute for lost Russian supplies already. What is more, it can fully replace every last bit of Russian gas without any need for demand destruction or even substitution away from gas.
Since the invasion of Ukraine in February, EU sourcing of Russian gas has plummeted from 46 per cent to 9 per cent. This pivot came partially through increased piped gas from Norway and Algeria. Even more noteworthy, the dramatic increases in shipped LNG imports from the US and elsewhere have replaced the lost Russian vaporous gas from the targeted pipelines. This new supply surge to the EU now approaches, based on our calculations, 40 per cent of total global LNG supply.
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Good short article. Putin's gambit hasn't paid off at all.
doc03
(35,325 posts)to death this winter without Russian gas.
BigmanPigman
(51,584 posts)Two contradictory statements.
Which is the truth and which is BS?
wnylib
(21,432 posts)Which ones are credible and which are corporate RW shills? Which story supports the idea of shortages that justify higher energy prices?
Amishman
(5,555 posts)Those who want to buy can find sellers. Prices are high, but manageable.
Recession reduced demand is definitely helping.
paleotn
(17,911 posts)Global supply is in relatively good shape due to China's woes and the economic cooling affect (no pun intended) of central bank interest rate hikes. That's allowed Europe to decouple from Russia with limited pain.
brush
(53,764 posts)much like his sycophant, trump. He's not the smart puppet master pulling trump's strings at all.
He's just a horrid bully who miscalculated totally his army's capabilities, and to make up for his and his army's failures, he resorts to bombing and shelling civilian apartment buildings.
I hope when this is all over, he's prosecuted for war crimes.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)MAKE RUSSIA IRRELEVANT
at140
(6,110 posts)Russia has perhaps more natural resources than any other country.
The best way to punish Russia is to lower oil prices. Russia depends on oil exports.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,307 posts)Do you have a trick to suddenly cut world demand, or persuade the other producers to increase their output? The cost of doing whatever Saudi Arabia wants is almost as bad as negotiating with Putin.
at140
(6,110 posts)If 50% of cars on road were battery powered, oil prices will plummet.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,307 posts)Even if you could just tell the world to never buy a gasoline or diesel powered vehicle again.
at140
(6,110 posts)If it becomes obvious that EV's are catching on, even a 10% ratio of EV's/ICE cars will be enough to bring oil to its knees. I think it is happening already, with some states banning sales of ICE cars in the future years.
MaryMagdaline
(6,853 posts)Evolve Dammit
(16,723 posts)Lonestarblue
(9,974 posts)didnt want to be fighting their neighbor. But with all the attacks on nuclear facilities, the brutality shown in essentially leveling the whole city of Mariupol, the atrocities found in Bucha, and the continued deliberate murders of civilians in apartment buildings and parks, I have no sympathy left for Russia. Hardliners in Russia are encouraging Putin to go all out and use any weapon to decimate Ukraine. I cheered the damage to the bridge to Crimea. I only wish it had been worse. And now I would cheer if Ukraine finally got the weapons they need to take this war to Russia and show them what its like to have your cities blown to smithereens and your people slaughtered for no reason. Not very nice of me, but there you have it.
Biophilic
(3,645 posts)onenote
(42,694 posts)Where the price of natural gas has soared and shortages are occurring.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/german-gas-commission-wants-one-off-payment-now-price-break-next-year-2022-10-09/
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/05/german-minister-criticizes-us-over-astronomical-natural-gas-prices.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/17/europe-russian-natural-gas-prices-firewood/
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Don't confuse predictions with reality. Everyone is working upon a wide variety of assumptions including the magnitude of demand and the magnitude of "realized" supply. Reality is probably somewhere in the middle with speculators wanting to be horrible, and increasing prices due to demand, and consumers and governments hoping they can deliver supply. Warmer winters could frustrate speculators, cooler winters could frustrate governments.
paleotn
(17,911 posts)They're roughly the same price per MMBtu as the 2000's. People think the world started in 2010 I guess.
https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/natural-gas
Add the correlation of economic activity with energy prices. With interest rate hikes cooling global economies and China in the economic ditch, supply is less of an issue now, allowing Europe some room to decouple from Russian gas. Consensus is China will grow only a shade over 3% in 2022, loosening up significant demand.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,307 posts)since the amount that can be shipped between the markets (and others) as LNG is limited.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cxwdwz5d8gxt/natural-gas
In Britain, it's now trading at 300p/therm, or $3.30/therm, which is $33/MMBtu. That's about 4 times the highest price in the period from Oct 2017 to June 2021 (though also under half the peak it reached at the end of August this year.).
In that 2017-2021 period, the British price perhaps averaged 50p/therm - at then-exchange rates, about $.65/therm, or $6.50/MMBtu. So perhaps twice the average of the American price then. But now, it's about 5 times the price.
The thing is, the "world started in 2010" bit is what applies to the USA, with the shale gas rush that transformed the prospects of US gas availability.
Ah, I've found a long term table for UK gas prices:
1997: around "10" (not sure what units)
start of 2001: peak of around 25
start of 2011: around 50
Oct 2017: 46
Jun 2021: 63
Oct 2022: 256
I also see tradingeconomics.com has the 25 year UK natural gas price in chart form: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/uk-natural-gas
Ford_Prefect
(7,887 posts)sleroy49
(37 posts)I'm not sure how true this is, at least for all of Europe. We have several Danish exchange students that came here about a week ago and they said their gas bills have been ridiculously high lately. Ridiculously high as in $2,000 in a non-winter month.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,307 posts)The UK wholesale price is now under half of the end-of-August peak (which may be an indication of the OP's article being basically right - the outlook for the winter it now under control, as in "Europe will have enough gas to get through" ), while it's still 4 or 5 times the price it was a couple of years ago, and for consumers, possibly 3 times higher.
If a household was paying $2,000 in a non-winter month, I think there's something very weird about their gas usage.
Electricity bills could go up by as much as 12,700 kroner for a family with two adults and two children which uses around 4,000 kilowatts per hour, according to Nykredits calculations. Such a household can expect to pay 22,324 kroner for the year compared to 9,269 kroner for the previous year.
https://www.thelocal.dk/20220908/how-much-will-danish-energy-bills-go-up-this-winter/
33,000 kroner is about $4,300. That's per year, so even if they were talking about a bill divided up into 12 equal months, that's about $360/month more.