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Wed Oct 26, 2022, 07:50 AM

I think just about all of these debates are useless exerices. They really do not make a difference.

If you already like a candidate then you will think that him or her did a great job and
if you don't like somebody you will be able to find fault with however she or he did and
their thoughts on issues.

And the only thing worse then most of all of the debates is the talking heads telling you
what they think they just said and how you should feel about it.

BTW Fetterman just had a stroke and it took a minute or two to find his words so what?
But the conservative owned media will make it into "The Dean Scream 2.0."


Just remember it will be Roevember in 5 days. Get out and vote and get your friends and their friends out too.



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Reply I think just about all of these debates are useless exerices. They really do not make a difference. (Original post)
Botany Oct 2022 OP
secondwind Oct 2022 #1
Lochloosa Oct 2022 #2
Meadowoak Oct 2022 #4
Lochloosa Oct 2022 #7
Meadowoak Oct 2022 #16
ITAL Oct 2022 #19
Meadowoak Oct 2022 #20
Botany Oct 2022 #6
John Ludi Oct 2022 #3
Phoenix61 Oct 2022 #5
Stuart G Oct 2022 #8
Chakaconcarne Oct 2022 #9
NewHendoLib Oct 2022 #11
newdayneeded Oct 2022 #26
NewHendoLib Oct 2022 #10
Botany Oct 2022 #13
NewHendoLib Oct 2022 #15
Botany Oct 2022 #17
NewHendoLib Oct 2022 #22
Botany Oct 2022 #18
NewHendoLib Oct 2022 #21
GusBob Oct 2022 #12
uponit7771 Oct 2022 #14
Elessar Zappa Oct 2022 #23
Earth-shine Oct 2022 #24
BlueIdaho Oct 2022 #25
Mad_Machine76 Oct 2022 #27

Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 07:54 AM

1. Yep.

Except maybe one person here and there might change their mind. Thatís what I tell myself.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 08:04 AM

2. 537 votes out of almost six million cast (0.009%)

That is how many votes George Bush won FL by.

Yes, they matter.

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Response to Lochloosa (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 08:10 AM

4. That's where the USSC stopped the count. Bush was sworn in,

But when they finished counting, Gore actually won by almost a million votes.

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Response to Meadowoak (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 08:21 AM

7. I highly doubt Gore won by a million votes.

That's throwing shit at the walls stuff.

I firmly believe Gore won but it was a lot closer than that.

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Response to Lochloosa (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 09:04 AM

16. The Miami Herald finished the count, that's what they reported.

It didn't get much coverage in the press because W was already President.

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Response to Meadowoak (Reply #16)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 09:21 AM

19. Well, it's complicated

It really depended on how votes were counted. By the rules Gore asked for Bush would have won.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-ballots-story.html

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Response to ITAL (Reply #19)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 09:35 AM

20. And I believe 911 had just happened, so the whole thing got

Almost no coverage. Seems like 100 years ago now.

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Response to Lochloosa (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 08:21 AM

6. The U.S. Supreme Court and removing 50,000 to 90,000 black voters* from voting "won FL for w."

BTW in the late spring/early summer of 2001 a real count of the Florida Vote (the one that the SCOTUS
stopped) showed that Al Gore really won the state but players like the NY Times and the MSM decided
not to publicize that fact because it would be too divisive.

* https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/11/13/florida-black-ballots-affected-most-in-2000/16784e7d-439a-4b96-9653-1b7362312d2a/

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 08:04 AM

3. I would think

that the one marginal effect might be to keep a few people from the polls here and there. People are not likely to switch ideologies.

At this juncture if I felt that a Dem was less than capable for the office they are pursuing (which is not how I feel about Fetterman), I'd still vote Dem and just hope that they were capable of hiring a competent staff...which is something I doubt most Republicans are going to be focused on, if Trump is any indication.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 08:15 AM

5. The 2020 election had record turnout with 67% of

eligible voters casting a ballot. That leaves about 80 million people who could have voted choosing not to. The debates are for them. To get just a few of them to cast a ballot.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 08:22 AM

8. People that turn out have already made their decision. Especially Oz vs Fetterman. Just vote!

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 08:29 AM

9. I believe they do make a difference...

They force candidates to answer to their record and claims.

Now, more than ever we need them.

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Response to Chakaconcarne (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 08:34 AM

11. but it does not matter. facts are pretty much dead, thanks to decades of propaganda by

right wing media.

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Response to NewHendoLib (Reply #11)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 10:50 AM

26. it matters for visuals too.

there will be voters turned off by the performance. It's not fair, but reality.

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Response to NewHendoLib (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 08:47 AM

13. Thank You! That article makes my point much better then me.

w bush was crushed in all 3 debates w/Kerry but he still "won." (not counting OH 2004)
HRC trashed Trump in all of debates 2 or 3 in 2016 ... one of which Trump was loudly
snorting as if he had just done some coke or adderall

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Response to Botany (Reply #13)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 08:49 AM

15. the extreme polarization and propaganda has created a cemented

split country. I see no good way out of the mess we are in.

Watching season 5 of Handmaid's Tale doesn't improve my mood, either!

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Response to NewHendoLib (Reply #15)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 09:13 AM

17. "I see no good way out of the mess we are in."

Suggestions:

Support high quality public education

Get rid of the electoral college

Presidential elections should only be 6 months soup to nuts

National high speed internet every where

Plant native plants

All voting should be on paper ballots ... either mail in or in person

Get the dark money out of politics.

Make it illegal to put out proven lies and call yourself news.

Read Doug Tallamy and Peter Wohlleben (the hidden life of trees) books

Increase voter turn out

Call out those Christo Fascist mother fuckers for who they are.

People should understand that most of tomatoes that are picked very late in the season
will get some kind of bacterial crap and not turn ripe and edible

Understand that the environment, energy, and the economy should be treated as one issue.

And expose all of the Trump/Russia connections along with all those shits who went along with
the coups of installing Trump in 2016 and the one on 1/6/21

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Response to Botany (Reply #17)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 10:19 AM

22. Yes...but I see no way making those happen in this climate

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Response to NewHendoLib (Reply #15)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 09:19 AM

18. "The extreme polarization" of America was Putin's goal in installing Trump

n/t

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Response to Botany (Reply #18)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 10:18 AM

21. Indeed.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 08:40 AM

12. Maybe he didn't do so good, might cost him the election

Maybe debates do then in fact matter

Some folks are not political news junkies and use the debates as their metric

And for the political news junkies, the media has to come up with something to say

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 08:49 AM

14. Yes they do, MOST times it's the first time someone sees a candidate

...speak on issues outside of commercials

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 10:21 AM

23. If even 1,000 voters are influenced then it's worth it.

Elections these days are won and lost by very small margins.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 10:22 AM

24. A republican friend of mine saw the first Trump vs. Biden debate. She thought T's behavior was so

vile, she voted for Biden and with a completely republican ticket.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 10:42 AM

25. There is very little that can be learned from a debate stage performance.

Other than the psychotic weirdo outliers, debate skills count for next to nothing when it comes to elections. Hell - they arenít even really debates any more. A candidate would be better off holding town halls answering peopleís questions and cutting ads from them.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Wed Oct 26, 2022, 11:07 AM

27. I get what you're saying

I don't think that they're entirely useless, as they sometimes create new narratives, attack lines, give the R the opening to make unforced errors (which they are wont to do). Granted, the committeds are not going to shift but might take away an Indy voter or maybe even a soft R

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