Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:04 PM
babylonsister (170,221 posts)
A pharma millionaire is suing four hunters for $7 million, and the results will have ahuge impacthttps://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/11/29/2139026/-A-phama-millionaire-is-suing-four-hunters-for-7-million-and-the-results-will-have-a-huge-impact A pharma millionaire is suing four hunters for $7 million, and the results will have a huge impact Mark Sumner Daily Kos Staff Tuesday November 29, 2022 · 3:22 PM EST Share this article OnX is an app that’s intended to help hunters find public land so they can go after deer, elk, or whatever they happen to be hunting. At first glance, that may not seem like news, but users of that app get an invaluable view of just who owns the property around them, which is critical when trying to reach public lands where hunting is legal. They have also gotten a very clear view of something that is otherwise hidden from the public: how corporations, millionaires, and billionaires have blocked out huge chunks of public property so that they alone can access it—without paying a dime. They do this by creating public land “islands,” areas that are surrounded by privately held property. The public lands in these islands become de facto parts of the surrounding property. In most states, there is absolutely no rule that says the property owners have to do anything to allow access to that island of land. Now, in what may be one of the most egregious case of someone using their power and wealth to bully both local residents and officials, drug company executive Fredric Eshelman—net worth $380 million—is trying to make the situation even worse. He’s trying to block off huge areas of land even when he doesn’t surround them, by pressing a case that would make it much easier to prevent the public from reaching public land. In the process, Eshelman is trying to financially destroy four hunters for “trespassing,” even though they literally never set one foot on his property. The outcome of this case will affect not just hunters and fishermen, but hikers, bird watchers, artists, photographers, and anyone who simply wants to access land that belongs to all of us. As The New York Times reported on Saturday, the OnX app is at the center of the controversial case now being tried in Carbon County, Wyoming, because that app was used by Missouri bow hunter Bradly Cape in plotting how out he would access the public lands around Elk Mountain in Wyoming. Well aware of how prickly many land owners are about hunters crossing their property, Cape located an area of “checkerboard” control. That is, the land is divided into one mile-by-one mile sections, half of which are public property, half of which are privately owned, like the black and white squares on a checkboard. At one place on this checkboard map, Eshelman controlled two squares that met at a corner. The other two squares were public property. Using OnX, Cape mapped out the exact location and led three friends in stepping across the corner from one public square to the other. They not only didn’t step on Eshelman’s land, the area of his property they crossed was infinitely small. Not one state has laws against this “corner crossing,” which is common in areas where grants of public land were once given to railroad companies in an effort to “open up” the West. Legally, Eshelman can’t run a fence across that corner. So instead he installed “no trespassing” signs at the corners of each of his squares, leaving only a few inches in between (a photograph of the signs is in the Times article). But in a return visit the hunters, aware of the signs after scouting the location, brought with them a specially constructed short ladder, allowing them to hop over the space between the signs. As WyoFile reports, Eshelman’s ranch manager spotted Cape’s group on the public property. After ranch workers harassed the hunters, including chasing them with pickup trucks which Eshelman’s men drove across the public land, the manager called the local sheriff along with Wyoming Fish and Game in an effort to charge the hunters with criminal trespass. Originally, officers from both agencies informed that manager that they didn’t issue trespassing charges for corner crossing. But days later, after the manager pressured local officials by reminding them of Eshelman’s importance in the county, another fish and game deputy issued the charge. Eshelman owns 23,277 acres near Elk Mountain, but in prosecuting this case against corner-crossing, he attempted to block access to 1.6 million acres of public land. The case went to trial in April, with the local district attorney claiming that someone would be prospected for trespass just for violating the “airspace” above private land (which would certainly be news to the FAA). It only took a local jury about two hours to decide the whole thing was ridiculous and find the four men not guilty. That should have been the end of the whole thing, but after failing to get what he wanted from the criminal trespass case, Eshelman piled on to the hunters with a civil suit “for causing millions of dollars in damage” which seeks not only compensation for this supposed damage, but for the hunters to pay all legal fees in both the criminal and civil cases. He is seeking an incredible $7 million in damages for disturbing a few inches of air over his land. As Donald Trump has illustrated so frequently, those who are wealthy enough can work the courts endlessly, using them both as a means to batter others into submission, and as a means of evading personal responsibility for anything. Hunting groups and other advocates for access to public land have raised $110,000 to help cover the legal fees, which threaten to crush the four hunters. No matter how ridiculous this may all seem, and no matter the quick outcome of the jury trial, Wyoming officials are convinced that the landowners will win in the end. According to a Republican attorney who formerly worked for the state attorney general’s office, if the hunters win, “it would not surprise me at all that the Legislature would come back and pass a law saying corner crossing is illegal. It’s sort of if you win, you lose, and if you lose, you lose.” Though most people are unaware, that kind of checkerboard control covers a huge amount of the American West, and blocking access to public land by this route would make equally huge areas completely inaccessible. The implications would reach far beyond one jackass pharma millionaire who used his Wall Street earnings to snap up some of Wyoming’s most beautiful property. The answer to a Wyoming law saying corner crossing is illegal is simply enough: a federal law saying it is. But Republicans are unlikely to allow such a law to pass, even if every hunter in America calls for it. Because for Republicans, if it comes to a contest between middle-class hunters and wealthy landowners … that’s not even a contest. According to Forbes, Eshelman made his millions when one of multiple drug companies where he was an executive was sold in 2011 for $3.9 billion. “Eshelman personally made at least $160 million in the sale, after taxes. FORBES estimates that his fortune is worth at least $380 million. Eshelman would not comment on his net worth or on how much he netted from selling his stakes in any of his companies.” Eshelman is a longtime supporter of conservative Republican politicians. According to WyoFile: He’s donated millions to conservative Republican candidates running for federal offices. In the 2008 election cycle he pumped $5.5 million into Rightchange.org, Eshelman’s “527” tax-exempt organization “formed primarily to influence a political election,” according to Open Secrets.
OpenSecrets lists Eshelman as the second-highest individual contributor to “Outside Money Organizations” in the 2010 election cycle, with $6,359,660 in contributions. His total contribution to Republican candidates for federal office is at least $28.5 million.
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67 replies, 8742 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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babylonsister | Nov 2022 | OP |
LAS14 | Nov 2022 | #1 | |
cilla4progress | Nov 2022 | #2 | |
certainot | Nov 2022 | #31 | |
czarjak | Nov 2022 | #43 | |
certainot | Nov 2022 | #45 | |
Dr. Strange | Nov 2022 | #62 | |
underpants | Nov 2022 | #3 | |
FakeNoose | Nov 2022 | #47 | |
CentralMass | Nov 2022 | #4 | |
cilla4progress | Nov 2022 | #55 | |
LetMyPeopleVote | Nov 2022 | #5 | |
yankee87 | Nov 2022 | #20 | |
crickets | Nov 2022 | #6 | |
Marcuse | Nov 2022 | #7 | |
SergeStorms | Nov 2022 | #17 | |
grantcart | Nov 2022 | #36 | |
DenaliDemocrat | Nov 2022 | #40 | |
montanacowboy | Nov 2022 | #8 | |
IA8IT | Nov 2022 | #9 | |
Faux pas | Nov 2022 | #10 | |
Hekate | Nov 2022 | #11 | |
Takket | Nov 2022 | #12 | |
2naSalit | Nov 2022 | #49 | |
JoeOtterbein | Nov 2022 | #13 | |
paleotn | Nov 2022 | #14 | |
rubbersole | Nov 2022 | #27 | |
2naSalit | Nov 2022 | #50 | |
Diamond_Dog | Nov 2022 | #15 | |
thenelm1 | Nov 2022 | #16 | |
babylonsister | Nov 2022 | #22 | |
Oneironaut | Nov 2022 | #25 | |
thenelm1 | Nov 2022 | #33 | |
Farmer-Rick | Nov 2022 | #51 | |
dickthegrouch | Nov 2022 | #18 | |
ProfessorGAC | Nov 2022 | #44 | |
SergeStorms | Nov 2022 | #19 | |
The Jungle 1 | Nov 2022 | #21 | |
barbtries | Nov 2022 | #23 | |
Wingus Dingus | Nov 2022 | #24 | |
yonder | Nov 2022 | #26 | |
2naSalit | Nov 2022 | #52 | |
yonder | Nov 2022 | #67 | |
BlueWaveNeverEnd | Nov 2022 | #60 | |
Quanto Magnus | Nov 2022 | #63 | |
Warpy | Nov 2022 | #28 | |
Lucinda | Nov 2022 | #29 | |
Backseat Driver | Nov 2022 | #30 | |
MissB | Nov 2022 | #35 | |
Backseat Driver | Nov 2022 | #38 | |
not a texan | Nov 2022 | #32 | |
calimary | Nov 2022 | #34 | |
Hermit-The-Prog | Nov 2022 | #37 | |
ThoughtCriminal | Nov 2022 | #39 | |
whistler162 | Nov 2022 | #41 | |
Grins | Nov 2022 | #53 | |
raging moderate | Nov 2022 | #42 | |
TigressDem | Nov 2022 | #46 | |
Wild blueberry | Nov 2022 | #48 | |
Fullduplexxx | Nov 2022 | #54 | |
Achilles Skye | Nov 2022 | #56 | |
Orrex | Nov 2022 | #57 | |
OldBaldy1701E | Nov 2022 | #58 | |
BlueWaveNeverEnd | Nov 2022 | #59 | |
BlueWaveNeverEnd | Nov 2022 | #61 | |
Haggis 4 Breakfast | Nov 2022 | #64 | |
wolfie001 | Nov 2022 | #65 | |
Deep State Witch | Nov 2022 | #66 |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:06 PM
LAS14 (13,073 posts)
1. This is egregious!!!! Thanks for the post!!! nt
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:10 PM
cilla4progress (22,540 posts)
2. Yep - reading about this -
"corner-crossing."
Some fucker of an attorney taking his willing obscenely rich clients' money to pursue an obscure legal theory of exclusivity. Who do you think owns the almost wholly republican state legislature in Montana? |
Response to cilla4progress (Reply #2)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 11:31 PM
certainot (9,090 posts)
31. if anything seriously threatening to billionaires and real estate moguls comes out of this
it'll become a regular subject for 1500 radio stations.
like when limbaugh blew up a black woman's suit against mcdonalds for spilling their hot coffee in her lap. it became a regular on 1500 radio stations to push tort reform. i doubt if any of those hundreds of racist lying blowhards attacking a black woman who was suing mcdonalds for spilling coffee in her lap ever mentioned she had to have skin grafts because the coffee was so close to boiling. i'll bet there are recordings of MSNBC contributor charlie sykes piling on before he got on the wrong side of trump and got pushed out for it.. |
Response to certainot (Reply #31)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 11:09 AM
czarjak (8,841 posts)
43. Sykes was for him before he was against him?
Response to czarjak (Reply #43)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 11:31 AM
certainot (9,090 posts)
45. as a right wing radio host he was supposed to follow the limbaugh lead but apparently had more
integrity or thought he was so important that his 'owners' would allow him not to bow before trump while the call screeners and producers got screamed at by the dittohead trumpers.
here's an article from 2008, i think, https://www.milwaukeemag.com/SecretsofTalkRadio/ entitled "Secrets of Talk Radio" by dan shelley who was a producer at WTMJ when sykes was a top blowhard. it's a great rundown of some of the techniques used by the hundreds of racist liars hiding behind call screeners while attacking and lying about democrats, liberals, environmentalists - why we got here. also exposes sykes as a lying RW rat, though rats aren't that bad..... |
Response to certainot (Reply #31)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 07:09 PM
Dr. Strange (25,719 posts)
62. Um...
like when limbaugh blew up a black woman's suit against mcdonalds for spilling their hot coffee in her lap. it became a regular on 1500 radio stations to push tort reform. Who was that? |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:14 PM
underpants (175,417 posts)
3. Very interesting read. Here's the pic of the No Trespassing signs
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Response to underpants (Reply #3)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 11:51 AM
FakeNoose (28,436 posts)
47. Olympic high jumpers would have no problem with this
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:16 PM
CentralMass (14,624 posts)
4. Oligarch scum.
Response to CentralMass (Reply #4)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 03:00 PM
cilla4progress (22,540 posts)
55. Wish
I could like your post. 😀
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:16 PM
LetMyPeopleVote (126,817 posts)
5. This will be an interesting lawsuit to follow
Please post any updates. I have not seen any mentioned of this lawsuit on the legal blogs that I follow (these blogs may have covered this case and I just missed such coverage).
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Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #5)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 10:06 PM
yankee87 (1,171 posts)
20. Agreed
I hope this case goes against the oligarch, but with Qpublicans in charge, who knows? Vote Qpublican and this is what you get.
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:19 PM
crickets (24,688 posts)
6. Dammit, greedy pigs. K&R for visibility.
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:20 PM
Marcuse (6,581 posts)
7. Whose side is the NRA on?
Response to Marcuse (Reply #7)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:57 PM
SergeStorms (18,185 posts)
17. Russia's.
nt.
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Response to Marcuse (Reply #7)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 12:33 AM
grantcart (52,633 posts)
36. They proposed a settlement by shoot out
Response to Marcuse (Reply #7)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 06:45 AM
DenaliDemocrat (1,388 posts)
40. NRA routinely supports candidates who
Want to sell off public lands (Lee for one).They are not pro hunter, but are often in concert with hunters on issues.
On others, they are silent. |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:25 PM
montanacowboy (5,598 posts)
8. And yet......
they continue to vote in republican legislatures who will continue to screw them over time and time again
What can you say to stupid. |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:29 PM
IA8IT (5,045 posts)
9. What's mine is mine and what's ours is mine? NO NO NO
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:37 PM
Faux pas (13,674 posts)
10. Kickin' with DISGUST
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:37 PM
Hekate (82,926 posts)
11. Kick Rec Bookmark
SMH
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:38 PM
Takket (18,780 posts)
12. i would think hunters in wyoming would have no trouble winning a lawsuit.....
and having the rethugs on their side...........
but as the article says...... "for Republicans, if it comes to a contest between middle-class hunters and wealthy landowners … that’s not even a contest. " and that's most likely how this will go |
Response to Takket (Reply #12)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 12:56 PM
2naSalit (70,520 posts)
49. They did locally...
But rich fucks with too much money can always find a way to fuck over someone who proved them wrong.
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:44 PM
JoeOtterbein (7,467 posts)
13. K n R ! Thanks for posting! nt
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:48 PM
paleotn (15,778 posts)
14. Harassing and chasing hunters with pickup trucks?
Sorry, but in some parts of the country, that's a good way to get your ass shot off. Just standing their ground.
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Response to paleotn (Reply #14)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 11:00 PM
rubbersole (3,873 posts)
27. That was my first thought.
Pissing these guys off and intentionally trying to financially ruin them is beyond risky. Go for it rich boy.
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Response to paleotn (Reply #14)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 12:58 PM
2naSalit (70,520 posts)
50. That's how...
A whole lot of them there good ol' boys hunt out here in these parts, especially Wyoming. They chase down their prey with motorized vehicles and then kill them.
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:49 PM
Diamond_Dog (27,101 posts)
15. Appalling,to say the least!
Please update us, if you can, babylonsister! Thank you
Disgusting oligarch scum is right. |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 09:53 PM
thenelm1 (705 posts)
16. Am I the only who one who ever read about the exclusive hunting estates of the royalty and landed...
gentry of "jolly ole England", and likely all the old monarchal states of medieval Europe? The story never changes, does it?
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Response to thenelm1 (Reply #16)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 10:24 PM
babylonsister (170,221 posts)
22. These guys are not royalty; they're rich and
republican, seems that's all that counts for them to set a dangerous precedent.
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Response to babylonsister (Reply #22)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 10:40 PM
Oneironaut (4,622 posts)
25. They are now, unfortunately.
In this new America, being rich means you can do anything you want without consequences.
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Response to babylonsister (Reply #22)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 12:22 AM
thenelm1 (705 posts)
33. Certainly not "royalty" (though they might consider themselves of that ilk), but the...
end result is pretty much the same is it not? ("For me and not for thee."
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Response to thenelm1 (Reply #16)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 01:00 PM
Farmer-Rick (8,385 posts)
51. Yeah, reading the history of feudal England
Is like reading how the kings and lords slowly took away the land from everyone else. So, skipping all the constant wars and religious atrocities, you can see how the kings moved the farmers to the small villages. They are beautiful picturesque towns today but they were a means of taking away common used lands from the people of England.
Some farmers stayed on the land because there were no villages nearby or they were just too far apart. But mostly the kings and lords used the enclosure act and other laws to move the British people into the villages and off the farm land so the Lords could control them. It allowed the kings to wander their lands for hunting and fishing without those pesky farmers intruding. So now farmers have to travel to lands they didn't own to work them for the king....serfs. Then the king says no you can't let your pigs and sheep graze on the now open fields. Only the Lord's and King's pigs and sheep can graze. Then they say no hunting animals in the woods to eat. Those are all the king's wild animals to eat. Then they tell the people you can't fish without permission of the Lord of the estate. So, make do with rats and mice. Then you can't even pick up a dead stick from off the forest grounds without the Lord's permission. Of course the sequence wasn't exactly like this in every part of feudal England but you get the gist. No wonder feudalism fell apart......but we seem to be going back to a feudal system. Where the filthy rich dump their waste products into our air, water and land. Then they use corporations to take over every market in the country from grocery stores to restaurants to clothes and furniture. Now they are taking away our public lands for only their use to hunt and enjoy. How very feudal of them. |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 10:01 PM
dickthegrouch (2,934 posts)
18. Isn't filing a false police report a crime?
Certainly perpetrating a fraud on the court (the amount of damages) is perjury. Why isn't this a** being stopped in his tracks?
Lock him up! |
Response to dickthegrouch (Reply #18)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 11:12 AM
ProfessorGAC (57,861 posts)
44. They Got Indicted
There was a trial, which from the snip was laughable.
But, since a charge was issued there was no "false" police report. I think we'd all agree that the whole thing is preposterous but false police report doesn't apply if charges were actually filed. Also, shame on the prosecutor for caving to pressure. This was a ridiculous waste of court resources. |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 10:04 PM
SergeStorms (18,185 posts)
19. I wouldn't think it wise....
to piss of an entire state's worth of hunters, who happen to own guns. Many guns.
Some of these guys are willing to kill Democrats because they have a differing political opinion. What do you suppose they'd do to someone standing in their way of bagging a trophy elk? |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 10:17 PM
The Jungle 1 (3,907 posts)
21. The rich and filthy do not want the low life's on their property
I bet this creep got collected a lot of his money from corporate welfare.
The cops will do whatever the rich man says to do. |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 10:27 PM
barbtries (27,288 posts)
23. greed
is what will kill the human race.
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 10:29 PM
Wingus Dingus (7,294 posts)
24. Blocking access to 1.6 million acres of public land.
And Wyoming's letting them. What a garbage state.
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 10:43 PM
yonder (8,565 posts)
26. Dan and Farris Wilks are doing the same in Idaho,
as are many other wealthy groups throughout the West. Several years ago the Texas-based, fracking-fortuned Wilks Brothers started buying privately held former range/timberland, closing off historical access to and through public land while aggressively monitoring how their holdings are approached. In some cases, they tried gating access roads and ignoring prescriptive rights-of-way only to be reversed by agencies or the courts.
Though I'm not aware of trespassing prosecutions or civil suits as severe as this Wyoming situation, a few years ago the Idaho legislature made penalties for trespassing much more severe, in some cases allowing for felony prosecution. Coincidentally or not, this legislation was introduced and passed at about the same time the "brotherhood" started buying up what they could. I expect to see more of this. |
Response to yonder (Reply #26)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 01:11 PM
2naSalit (70,520 posts)
52. Fuckwad Gianforte...
In Montana, spent years trying to keep people from gaining river access along our many world class fly-fishing rivers because he didn't want to look out his window and see poeple fishing near his property.
He lost, now river access is guaranteed. So then he started running for office and he became US House rep, now he's governor. He's been trying to change public access laws and sell off public lands and plans to continue. So at this point, among all the claims about us having too many Senators and all that guff, I will point out that Montana was well on its way to becoming a bluish purple to mostly blue state until the last eight years. Many calls for assistance in campaigning for and electing more Democrats to the legislature and federal offices were ignored until the day before the election followed by all the wondering why it went to the crazies... along with the cries of too much representation for too few people when policy votes fail to produce the desired effect. Flame on but we've been over here in the chasm screaming for help for a long time only to be told we don't matter. This case is evidence that chickens come home to roost. Democracy exists everywhere in this country or it's not democracy. |
Response to 2naSalit (Reply #52)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 10:23 PM
yonder (8,565 posts)
67. Chasm describes it well
Willfully or not and from far away, the chasm can't be seen so is generally ignored. Upon approaching however, both it's beauty and peril become evident.
Wealthy, powerful interests always seem to be at the edge, gazing and drooling into their new-found delight, calculating how they might increase that good fortune. Elsewhere, many of us are generally oblivious to the vastness of what remains unseen — public lands, our own great collective wealth. They jostle, honk, bump, just trying to live the only life they know while some of us lucky folks in the West are AT the precipice, screaming. |
Response to yonder (Reply #26)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 06:55 PM
BlueWaveNeverEnd (3,044 posts)
60. rich people try to block access to beaches in California. f*** greedy selfish rich people
Response to yonder (Reply #26)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 07:25 PM
Quanto Magnus (681 posts)
63. it happens everywhere
Even in the SF Bay Area. I looked at a piece of land in the East Bay Hills. It had no access to the sewer system because a jackass down the hill bought all the properties around him, then wouldn't let anyone have an easement for sewer. So... no one can build on this land (septic system is not allowed). This same person built a gate on the public road leading up to his home. I was told by the city they won't do anything about cause..... rich....
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 11:06 PM
Warpy (106,534 posts)
28. Considering all the hoops they jumped through to avoid setting foot on his
ridiculous land claim, it would seem pretty improbable that they'd lose this nuisance suit.
While I greatly sympathize with a lot of property owners during hunting season (there being roads I wouldn't drive down in deer season in semi rural New England), I gotta say Eshelman is being fucking ridiculous and needs to take a Valium or something. He certainly needs to lose this case since they didn't trespass and there are no laws against corner crossing. No one should be allowed to block public land unless there's an extreme fire risk or other emergency situation. |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Tue Nov 29, 2022, 11:30 PM
Backseat Driver (3,451 posts)
30. Damn...worthy of a season's worth of storyboard for Taylor Sheridan's
Yellowstone?
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Response to MissB (Reply #35)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 01:32 AM
Backseat Driver (3,451 posts)
38. Episode Title: The Checkerboard Train Station Gambit
I seem to recall the body dump site was across the Montana state line w/Wyoming. That system being worked out w/the railroads to open the West long before DNA, LOL? Later with a big hole for a "station" and two no trespassing signs off a corner of the board just beyond a lonely, almost never traveled road...Hmmm...You know it's eventually going to come out. Oh, Beth!....lots and lots of
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 12:22 AM
not a texan (24 posts)
32. This could cost them their base
I used to hunt, still like to fish, and now take pictures. I have lived in rural Idaho, Oregon, California, and Alaska. There were many liberals like me living in those isolated areas just to have access to all the freedom of open spaces. We depended on access to BLM, Forest Service, and other public lands.
Of course, many of the people with whom I would participate in those same activities would be more of the conservative voting block, dare I say republicon base. Back when I lived there, 1979 through 2014, this base feared the libs would take away this freedom. Just like talk radio told them to. If and when the conservative republicons actually wall off access to public lands for public use, I predict this base will turn on them. I do believe there are enough voters who would make this a single issue vote to swing local seats first, soon followed by congressional ones. I hope our open spaces continue to stay open for citizens instead of corporations, rich fucks, and assholes. |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 12:24 AM
calimary (74,912 posts)
34. Whoa... quite a read!
Thanks for posting.
Pretty deep stuff. |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 12:44 AM
Hermit-The-Prog (27,266 posts)
37. Never heard of this before. Thanks for posting. Should be guaranteed access.
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 03:02 AM
ThoughtCriminal (13,646 posts)
39. MAGAs that I've encountered
have told me that there should be no Federal public lands except for military bases and D.C.
But they are almost always devoted hunters and fishers who use those same public lands. To say they are incapable of thinking this through even when it is explained requires no explanation. For those who think that the they would be able to access public state lands - well they aren't paying attention to how their GOP controlled state legislatures manage them. |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 07:03 AM
whistler162 (11,155 posts)
41. In England and Wales
Response to whistler162 (Reply #41)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 02:10 PM
Grins (6,025 posts)
53. Yes. And the state should do this right away. NM
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 10:51 AM
raging moderate (3,713 posts)
42. Could US military maybe give free helicopter rides?
They would, after all, be defending our free democratic republic from its domestic enemies.
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 11:38 AM
TigressDem (4,849 posts)
46. DEMs want to stop guns from killing kids. RETHUG Elitists block land they don't own.
WHO IS THE REAL ENEMY of rational gun owners?
WHO should people tired of the RETHUGLICAN WAY support? ANY ONE WHO FIGHTS FOR THEIR ACTUAL RIGHTS to be a responsible rational gun owner that doesn't plan to kill people. WHAT WE REALLY NEED IS A LAW THAT PREVENTS LAND-TRAP PURCHASING. |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 12:54 PM
Wild blueberry (5,425 posts)
48. Did not know this
Hope word gets out to all hunters in all states. Just disgusting.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention. |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 02:10 PM
Fullduplexxx (6,828 posts)
54. another reason to bring back the 90% tax bracket
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 04:18 PM
Achilles Skye (24 posts)
56. Hear me out
Eminent domain for public access.
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Response to Achilles Skye (Reply #56)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 04:37 PM
Orrex (62,179 posts)
57. If you'll permit me to propose an alternative:
Get them on some minor traffic violation and then seize their land as part of the asset forfeiture the cops ove to inflict on impoverished non-white people.
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 05:59 PM
OldBaldy1701E (3,362 posts)
58. If I were the person who was in charge of EMS or the like in his area.
I'd say that rich bastard had better never have an heart attack anywhere on his property. I'd claim we could not enter it.
Also, I think in a few states this is illegal and you cannot deny access to a property if your property allows access. I am not sure about all that, but I remember this coming up a few times in North Carolina and hearing about that law. |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 06:51 PM
BlueWaveNeverEnd (3,044 posts)
59. wow
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 06:56 PM
BlueWaveNeverEnd (3,044 posts)
61. at age 72, he lies away at night counting his acres, worried that someone will cross them
scrooge
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 08:32 PM
Haggis 4 Breakfast (804 posts)
64. I'd like to see this spoiled little man
React to sudden helicopter tours of this part of Wyoming. He does NOT own the airspace above his land. |
Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 08:44 PM
wolfie001 (1,634 posts)
65. Cue Gomer Pyle......
...."Surprise, surprise!"
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Response to babylonsister (Original post)
Wed Nov 30, 2022, 08:55 PM
Deep State Witch (9,295 posts)
66. Hunting In the Royal Forest
I mean, are we back to Royal Forests controlled by the oligarchs? I mean, wasn't that part of what the Magna Carta was all about?
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