(Mar A Lago) Showdown before the raid: FBI agents and prosecutors argued over Trump - WaPo

[GGoss]

(Mar A Lago) Showdown before the raid: FBI agents and prosecutors argued over Trump - WaPo

Months of disputes between Justice Department prosecutors and FBI agents over how best to try to recover classified documents from Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club and residence led to a tense showdown near the end of July last year, according to four people familiar with the discussions.

Prosecutors argued that new evidence suggested Trump was knowingly concealing secret documents at his Palm Beach, Fla., home and urged the FBI to conduct a surprise raid at the property. But two senior FBI officials who would be in charge of leading the search resisted the plan as too combative and proposed instead to seek Trump’s permission to search his property, according to the four people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe a sensitive investigation.

Prosecutors ultimately prevailed in that dispute, one of several previously unreported clashes in a tense tug-of-war between two arms of the Justice Department over how aggressively to pursue a criminal investigation of a former president. The FBI conducted an unprecedented raid on Aug. 8, recovering more than 100 classified items, among them a document describing a foreign government’s military defenses, including its nuclear capabilities.

Starting in May, FBI agents in the Washington field office had sought to slow the probe, urging caution given its extraordinary sensitivity, the people said. Some of those field agents wanted to shutter the criminal investigation altogether in early June, after Trump’s legal team asserted a diligent search had been conducted and all classified records had been turned over, according to some people with knowledge of the discussions.

The idea of closing the probe was not something that was discussed or considered by FBI leadership and would not have been approved, a senior law enforcement official said. This account reveals for the first time...

Archive Link: https://archive.ph/chZi5#selection-455.0-583.39

[SoCalDavidS]

1. LOL!!!!!

[hlthe2b]

2. Laughing is really not my reaction...

Devastating disclosure, though not unexpected.

[SoCalDavidS]

23. I'm Laughing Because America Is A Joke

I really don’t care anymore. There’s nothing that will be done to change that reality.

[Justice matters.]

43. Agreed. The RW propaganda is too strong.

It poisoned everything by now.

[Scrivener7]

3. "The infighting delayed the search for months." Where does that buck stop?

We know where.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

13. Prosecutors and police argue over charges and timing??...that never happens!! Does..always.

[Beastly Boy]

25. Are you quoting from the article?

I couldn't find this quote. The closest I found was: "Months of disputes between Justice Department prosecutors and FBI agents over how best to try to recover classified documents from Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club and residence led to a tense showdown near the end of July last year"

No mention of delays associated with this dispute.

Are you sure you are not misquoting?

[Escurumbele]

31. "Months of disputes..." I believe that says it all, don't you think? It took them MONTHS to come up

with how to proceed...To me, that delayed the the actions...Not sure what makes you doubt it.

[Beastly Boy]

38. So you have no issue when someone misquotes an article to make a false argument...

That's interesting.

But more to your point, hell no! I don't believe three words plucked out of a lengthy article say it all. Neither do its authors:

It is not unusual for FBI agents and Justice Department prosecutors to disagree during an investigation about how aggressively to pursue witnesses or other evidence. Often, those disagreements are temporary flare-ups that are debated, decided and resolved in due course.
While the FBI tends to have great discretion in the day-to-day conduct of investigations, it is up to prosecutors to decide whether to file criminal charges — and, like the prosecutors, the director of the FBI ultimately reports to the attorney general. The Mar-a-Lago case was unusual not just for its focus on a former president, but in the way it was closely monitored at every step by senior Justice Department officials. Attorney General Merrick Garland said he “personally approved” the search of Trump’s property.
It’s unclear how the investigation may have been reshaped if the two sides had settled their disputes differently.

It is just as likely that without this dispute taking place the whole investigation would have taken a different turn, with no telling how many more months it would have taken. Without this dispute taking place, the FBI could have prevailed and the search would have never taken place. Without this dispute Trump's lawyers could have been granted what they desperately want: benefit of doubt in the legality and fairness of the process.

How can three words summarize it all anyway?

[Ray Bruns]

4. Someone at the DOJ needs to go And I am thinking we start with the top position.

[Beastly Boy]

22. Does this apply to evry single time FBI and prosecutors disagree?

How many changes to the top position per month would this lead to?

[Thomas Hurt]

5. Sounds like someone was more worried about kissing the Pig's ass than doing their jobs.

[mopinko]

6. i'll say it again- i think doj is full of moles.

this is just the kind of thing i assumed was going on at doj- left behind loyalists gumming up the works any way they can.
that’s why it’s all taking so long.

[GGoss]

7. Is That What They Call "Headless Nails" ?

I think I heard that here before...

[mopinko]

8. works 4 me.

i’ve never heard it before, but, yeah, exactly.

[The Magistrate]

11. Exactly, Ma'am: Active Sympathizers With Insurrection

Law enforcement is shot through with these, at all levels.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

14. Could be just the normal conflict between the Law, prosecutors, and the Order police want.

[Scrivener7]

17. Sure, sure. All is well. This is totally normal.

[The Magistrate]

29. You're A Bit More Subtle Than The Average Bear, Sir

If I take your meaning, you are suggesting agents here, and police in general, seek upholding an order which has no more to do with Law than it does with Justice? I would agree with that.

[Beastly Boy]

39. I don't see the subtlety you ascribe to the poster being there.

Conflict resolution is a common occurrence in al aspects of life. DOJ is no exception. Describing conflicts as being normal does not suggest any judgement on the law, or justice, or upholding order in any way, shape or form. It's a simple statement on conflicts and, consequently, their resolutions being commonplace.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[The Magistrate]

40. Perhaps, Sir, But In This Matter I Disagree

It is generally police champing at the bit and prosecutors urging restraint. Where the normal course does not obtain, it is reasonable to seek an answer why.

In this instance we know the particular police organization has in the past acted militantly in favor of right wing political views, and that its present leadership is of the right wing party.

We know that police agents work hard against left groups and cooperate with right wing thugs. Indeed, police have cultivated such thugs on pretense they could provide information about leftist radicals.

We know a clique existed in the FBI which virulently opposed Mrs. Clinton and vigorously supported Trump. No reason exists to suppose these partisans have changed their spots and ceased adherence to the man animated by their own right-wing authoritarian outlook on their work and lives. No reason exists to suppose these will not do what their positions may allow to assist Trump and Co. in evade indictment and conviction.

It is possible I overrated the gentleman, but it seemed a careful formulation capable of being taken several ways, that which I suggested being one.

I expect the security agencies to act properly in this matter, but can't say I trust them to.

[Beastly Boy]

41. Not sure I accept your premises as stated, let alone your conclusions

There may be sporadic evidence of police acting against the interests of left-leaning groups and individuals and in support of right leaning ones. This indicates a problem, but it doesn't constitute a conspiracy. The same goes for FBI. Your first sentence, "t is generally police champing at the bit and prosecutors urging restraint", appears to confirm this understanding.

What you describe later, regardless of how many people know of it, contrasts with this sentence as an exception, not the rule, and it doesn't in any way indicate Garland's failure to administer the agencies under his command. The article cited in the OP speaks in favor of this supposition. In fact, it shows all parties to the conflict being concerned with how to best follow the law and administer justice, not circumvent them. It is just that their views on how to do it best differed.

In this respect, and for the sake of brevity I am leaving any other possible examples out of this conversation, inferring ulterior motives to their actions, although not completely out of the question, is not supported by the content of the article. Normal course of conflict resolution, in my view, remains the most logical explanation of what transpired.

[bluestarone]

24. EXACTLY! PLUS

Everything was more than likely reported to TFG. EVERYTHING! HE knew what was happening!

[Escurumbele]

32. Your point is very valid. I cannot understand the loyalty some people hold for the buffoon.

[Justice matters.]

44. Two words: FOX NEWS

These two CAPS caused so much damages to the nation so far, it's mind boggling.

[Beastly Boy]

26. It is conceivable, but

the article itself gives no validation to this sentiment. On the contrary, the detailed account of the tensions between FBI and prosecutors and the ultimate outcome suggests otherwise.

[Kid Berwyn]

9. Maybe McGonigal wasn't only FBI on Putin's payroll?

Lots of Special Agents involved in Poodle Protection.

[fightforfreedom]

10. People were debating raiding a Former presidents home. No shit!

How shocking that is not. People act like this was an easy decision.

Must be a conspiracy, must be incompetence, Garland failed, must be some Trump loving FBI agents gumming up the works.

It couldn't be people having a legitimate argument about raiding a former presidents home for the first time in our history. That's an easy decision.

[GGoss]

12. And If They Were Looking For His Porn Collection, I Would Agree

But, it wasn't porn.

It was the most highly classified documents in the world, which he no longer had a right to have, and he was refusing to give them back.

Either the law applies equally, or it does not.

And apparently, it does not.

[Beastly Boy]

27. All the more reason to review the decision carefully.

Are you suggesting that the gravity of the situation excuses rush decisions? And how does this apply to equal justice?

[Scrivener7]

15. I think all our reactions were the same when we first heard about the delay.

The massive terrible consequences of delaying the second search weren't that hard to understand.

A debate is one thing. If a debate goes on for months and months, and the person responsible for the final decision does not make that final decision, it's called "dithering."

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217072892

[fightforfreedom]

18. There is nothing in my previous post about the raid on Trumps home.

That's what we are talking about now. Good try though. Keep on trying, maybe one day you will get lucky and nail me on something.

[Scrivener7]

19. .

[Beastly Boy]

28. This was not a debate. It was a dispute.

When you navigate a mine field, you better settle disputes before you rush into it.

Clearly, I don't think all our reactions were the same. At the very least, you are not speaking for me. And there is no mention in the article about delays, so you are not speaking for the authors of the article either.

[Escurumbele]

33. It should have been an easy decision because he had lied about giving all the documents he stole

When you are dealing with a very well known liar you don't sugarcoat how you are going to proceed to investigate criminal actions, the country is at stake, or at least that has to be the first order of reasoning, it is their duty to carry on with their obligation, which is to protect the country and its citizens, and not be afraid that you may hurt the feelings of the criminal in question.

[fightforfreedom]

35. To say it was an easy decision sitting in front of a computer is easy.

The decision to search Trumps home was a very tough decision. A decision no one has ever made before. If you had to make that decision you would have never posted what you just posted. Try and keep things real.

[Escurumbele]

47. To say it was a difficult decision when you are in front of a computer is easy as well

This is Black&White and the fact they were dealing with an double impeached ex-president with a life long record of criminality has no bearing on the decision they had in front of them.

Either "No one is above the law" holds true, or give it up, because it doesn't matter who you are dealing with, if a crime has been committed the process must be the same whether you are dealing with a guy who played at being president for four years or a common criminal, which category suits trump very well, that of a common criminal.

Your premise is that they were dealing with an ex-president so the law, and the rules must be different...Why would that be? I go back to "No one is above the law" which destroys that premise.

The guy is a know liar, and had lied already about giving back all the documents, so why would you continue to treat him with kid's gloves?

trump had to be dealt the same as a common criminal would have been dealt, and I am glad the prosecutors won that one, and very ashamed the FBI, who's job is to protect the country gave so much priority to a criminal's feelings and not to the rule of law.

[Justice matters.]

45. WTF a sitting President cannot be indicted even if he shoots someone on 5th Ave...

AND now, even a former President can't be investigated "swiftly" after he stole TOP-SECRET NATIONAL SECURITY documents!!! OMG, what's next?

Let him sell our most sensitive nuclear weapons informations and compromise all our agents and informants abroad until Manhattan and DC are blown up in fumes??? THEN we'll do our jobs???

[gratuitous]

16. For the umpteenth time

Last edited Wed Mar 1, 2023, 12:25 PM - Edit history (1)

The FBI did not raid Trump's criminal hideout. They executed a search warrant. To this day the Washington Post can't get this simple fact right.

[Duppers]

50. + 100

Thank you.

[Tree Lady]

20. Ok this is way out there but for years decades

of hearing stories about people infiltrating FBI from things like Scientology I often wonder.

I hear they tend to lean towards the right so it makes sense to me they would cause trouble.

Obviously I am just guessing but Trump and others sure seem to get away with a lot.

[Scrivener7]

21. Sadly, not way out there at all.

Rudy proved that to us long ago with his inside knowledge of FBI attempts to topple Hillary before the 2016 election.

[Escurumbele]

30. So the FBI was going to call trump and say "Mr. trump can we search your home at Mar-A-Lago?

pretty please with sugar on top...please, please, please? Thank you your highness."

Unreal...

[Scrivener7]

36. Yep. After they knew he lied the first time, after they knew there were more documents.

And the discussion that went on about whether that was a good idea went on for months and months and months.

This whole thing is so crazy.

[Roland99]

34. THERE'S your Deep State

[Hotler]

37. "extraordinary sensitivity".

[leftyladyfrommo]

42. That's how Trump gets away with everything. His affairs

are so tangled he's almost impossible to touch. He's always completely lawyered up. He sues everyone for everything. He never backs down. He immediately goes on the attack and constantly very publicly.

And he has 30% of the public backing him up.

He's committed so many crimes it's impossible to know which ones to go after. And he alwats makes sure he has a fall guy.

I don't know if they will ever get him. Everybody is just hoping thst he dies

[Boomerproud]

46. I cannot find the words for what I think of both the DOJ and FBI.

[BannonsLiver]

48. Things like this are why I never expected justice for Trump

One would have to be naive to think there ever would be. Pathetically so, in fact.

[BannonsLiver]

49. I'm sure the "All is well1!!!!" Crowd with explain this away.

I’ll be rolling my eyes though.