So will Djokovic get a waiver to enter the US without a Covid19 vaccine

[malaise]

to play at Indian Wells or in the Miami Open

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/03/sports/tennis/djokovic-alcaraz-indian-wells.html


The world No. 1, Djokovic remains unvaccinated against Covid-19 and still cannot enter the United States without an exemption. He has asked for one and is awaiting an answer.

-------------
I hope not

[Sympthsical]

1. Natural Immunity is sufficient

We have numerous studies confirming this, including a major one published in Lancet a few weeks ago. Djokovic's had Covid twice.

At this point, continuing to slap at the guy has nothing to do with public health or safety and everything to do with performatively punishing him.

It's gotten to be a weird look that looks increasingly strange by the day.

The pandemic is over. It's endemic. He has natural immunity. Enough with this stuff.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/natural-immunity-protective-covid-vaccine-severe-illness-rcna71027

Link for people who don't believe it.

[Celerity]

2. +1

[TheBlackAdder]

3. And yet you can catch COVID three times or more with 'Natural Immunity'

[Sympthsical]

4. I caught Covid while fully vaccinated

I've gotten every shot available. Still got it (and it was a completely delightful week). Just like pretty much everyone in my family and friends group got it after getting vaccinated. I know people who have been fully vaccinated who have gotten Covid more than once.

The dumbest myth that got perpetuated during this whole mess is that vaccination or natural immunity prevents getting it.

They do not. They never did. Whoever spread that idea was deeply wrong (or motivated).

What immunity and vaccination prevent are chances of severe symptoms that lead to hospitalization or death. Hoping to catch it to gain immunity is a dice roll, because you can end up being one of the hospitalized or dead. That's why vaccine is recommended. It's a safer method.

But once you've the antibodies, either by vaccination or infection, it's very whatever. It makes almost no difference anymore how you got your immunity. Once you have it, you're on the same footing as everyone else. That's what the recently published meta-study in Lancet is trying to communicate.

[Joe Cool]

6. So, people should get sick to avoid getting sick?

That’s literally your argument, getting sick prevents you from getting sick.

[Sympthsical]

9. You just put an entire argument into my mouth

That was a neat trick.

Vaccines are the best and safest way to build immunity. Full stop.

But people who have gotten sick have natural immunity, which study after study is now finding sufficient.

Also, "getting sick prevents you from getting sick" is how the immune system works. Actually, that's how vaccines work, too. So that was kind of an odd statement.

[Joe Cool]

10. He has natural immunity but got it twice?

Explain how getting it twice is natural immunity. He got it twice. What happened to natural immunity the second time?

[Sympthsical]

12. Having immunity doesn't prevent you from getting it again

Just as vaccines don't prevent you from getting it.

What immunity/vaccination do is reduce symptoms. You are much, much less likely to need hospitalization or die if you have immunity. That's why it's a good thing.

I'm starting to feel like this is new information. Which is kind of worrisome when we're three years in now.

[Joe Cool]

14. Did you even read the article that you posted?

The answer is no.
Getting the vaccine is better than getting COVID. Stop equating the two. You’re wrong.

[Joe Cool]

11. Not getting sick is actually getting sick.

Getting the vaccine is actually getting COVID. Your arguments keep getting more and more ludicrous.

[Sympthsical]

15. For the sake of saving time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_immune_system

Because I've no interest in laying physiology and microbiology basics out from scratch for the rest of the afternoon.

It seems like that primer is apparently needed.

[Joe Cool]

17. Vaccination and immunity are not equal

https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/vaccines-still-recommended-as-best-against-covid/43AG7RXD45AZXEZWP43LJQSHNI/



f you’re trying to gain that initial immunity, though, doctors say getting it through vaccinations is preferable to just catching the virus.

“We still want and prefer the vaccination over the infection,” said Dr. Roberto Colon, chief medical officer at Miami Valley Hospital. “You don’t have to have any other risks.”

[Sympthsical]

20. Infection is a riskier way to acquire immunity

Yes. We agree. I never said any differently. Vaccines are preferable.

Getting it naturally presents more risks, because you're gambling on whether or not you develop severe symptoms. It's not a good way to go about things.

But once you have immunity, it just doesn't really matter anymore.

We're having a discussion, in this thread, about whether someone with natural immunity should be banned from somewhere.

Study after study says there's no logical basis for it.

[Joe Cool]

23. You act like it's permanent immunity. It isn't.

It lasts ten months. Read the article that YOU posted.

[Joe Cool]

24. He doesn't have natural immunity.

He got it twice. That’s not natural immunity.

[Joe Cool]

18. Get sick to avoid getting sick.

Yeah, that makes zero sense when you can get vaccinated which is better than not getting sick. You can’t admit when you are wrong, can you?

[Mr.Bill]

13. I had every shot, too. I'm 69 years old

and when I finally caught it last August I had a mild sore throat for about one day. That was my only sympton, although I tested positive for several days. I credit the vaccine for my mild symptoms.

[Sympthsical]

16. And that is exactly why we get vaccinated

So our risks of severe symptoms and death are lessened.

I got it during the wave in Dec. '21. Everyone around me did. That was fun. It was like a bad flu over a long weekend. Kind of a miserable, but also allowed for clearing out some of the Netflix queue.

You take the good with the bad.

[Joe Cool]

19. I never had it and am fully vaccinated.

Should I get sick so I don’t get it a second time?
Is that your advice?

[Sympthsical]

26. I don't think you understand how immunity works

And that's not a criticism. Just a statement. Immunity with Covid means you're less likely to suffer severe symptoms. It doesn't mean you can't get it. I think this is where you're getting stuck, the false idea that immunity means not getting it. That's not what it means when we discuss immunity in biological terms. Immunity means it still gets into your system, but your body has the tools to fight it more effectively when it does.

This is why we designate people as carriers of disease. Carriers are people who have it in their system but whose immune processes prevent symptomatic infection. Immunity doesn't mean not contracting it. It means not getting wrecked if you do.

Anyway, I don't think any amount of my trying to assist in understanding is helpful. Feels like I'm arguing with anxiety. One can rarely argue successfully with anxiety.

So, I'm out on this one.

[Joe Cool]

27. You keep doubling down on technicalities.

But, overall you’re wrong and won’t admit it.

He shouldn’t be allowed in the country if he isn’t vaccinated. Tough s&$@. He’s only a tennis player. No reason plague rats should be allowed in if he can’t follow the rules

[Joe Cool]

28. Less likely to suffer serious still means

you can suffer serious symptoms.

[Mr.Bill]

21. If there was no pandemic and I was still working,

I would have gone to work with the mild symptom I had. Knowing what we know about Covid, I quarantined for 14 days even though I felt fine.

[Joe Cool]

22. If there was no pandemic

you would not have had COVID.

[Mr.Bill]

25. Of course.

I was just saying that to describe how mild the symptom was. In my younger days I worked at times with symptoms worse than what I had with Covid.

[Joe Cool]

5. Getting it twice isn't natural immunity.

He has natural immunity but he caught it twice?

[Joe Cool]

7. Did you actually read the article that you posted?

No, you could not have read the entire article.

““This is really good news, in the sense that protection against severe disease and death after infection is really quite sustained at 10 months,” said the senior study author, Dr. Christopher Murray, the director of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington.”

10 months isn’t forever.
Also from the article:

“Still, experts stress that vaccination is the preferable route to immunity, given the risks of Covid, particularly in unvaccinated people.”

[malaise]

29. Homeland Security disagrees and Biden should not intervene

Public Health is more important than tennis rankings.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/1742282/Novak-Djokovic-denied-US-entry-Homeland-Security-Joe-Biden-Indian-Wells-Miami-tennis-news


Novak Djokovic has reportedly been denied his request to enter America unvaccinated and compete in Indian Wells and Miami, according to Florida Senator Rick Scott. The American politician shared the news late on Friday, claiming that Homeland Security had decided not to let Djokovic into the country and calling on Joe Biden to intervene.

[Sympthsical]

30. It's silly

But I guess we're still doing this, so whatever.

[FelineOverlord]

33. Not really

https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/post/cecelia-scurlock-58-almarosa-co-rancher-pedigree-analyst-anti-vaxxer-in-icu-with-covid

[Sympthsical]

34. She didn't have natural immunity

Natural immunity is when you contract Covid and live. She didn't.

Her case is one of many for why vaccinations are better. She rolled the dice. She lost.

[Raftergirl]

31. As a tennis fan I am very happy he has been denied entry into US.

Hope nothing changes before USO.

[malaise]

32. I know folks who can't attend conferences or family funerals because

they refuse to be vaccinated - what makes Djokovic any different?

No vaccine, no entry - same rule for all.

[malaise]

35. Novak Djokovic withdraws from Indian Wells because of vaccination status

https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/64859353

Good

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

36. I don't care if that right-winger is kept out of the U.S., but ...

... I don't think our hospital system is in danger of being overwhelmed, so his visit would have little impact.

That was a big fear a few years ago.

I'd like to get back onto the court, myself. How's the weather in Jamaica? Not too much snow, I hope.