Do you think the FBI/DoJ will ever address Republican fascism?

[Marius25]

We're witnessing the exact same events that lead to Nazi Germany now happening America.

A speaker at CPAC advocated for transgender people to be eradicated and the crowd cheered.

Florida is passing a law to remove kids from their families' homes, no matter what state they live in if someone in the family is transgender.

The first books Nazi Germany burned were on LGBTQ research. The books Republicans are banning are primarily on LGBTQ issues.

The Republican Party needs to be labeled a fascist terrorist organization by the FBI.

[SheltieLover]

1. The qpuke party absolutely should be deemed a terrimorist organization

[Firestorm49]

2. And unfortunately, we now need to consider the politicization of the FBI as well.

[J_William_Ryan]

3. No.

Hate speech is entitled to First Amendment protections absent advocacy of imminent lawlessness or violence.

Banning books is beyond the purview of the FBI as it concerns civil rather than criminal law.

We the people and our democratic institutions are the only safeguard against the rise of the neo-fascist right.

[Marius25]

8. Advocating genocide is not protected by the 1st Amendment

[Fullduplexxx]

18. at what point does it become yelling fire in a crowded theater.

[Ocelot II]

21. Brandenburg v. Ohio.

"Yelling fire in a crowded theater" is wrongly cited as an example of an imminent threat of violence ,which is the standard for suppressing inciteful speech. It's inaccurate because you should yell fire in a crowded theater if the theater is on fire. Brandenburg says that speech advocating illegal conduct is protected under the First Amendment unless the speech is likely to incite “imminent lawless action.”

[Fullduplexxx]

24. thank you .. i guess i could have said at what point does it become yelling fire in a crowded

theater that is not on fire. when does hate speech become likely to incite imminent lawless action ?

[Ocelot II]

26. If you say you hate some group and they ought to be eliminated,

that's protected speech. If you say you hate them, they ought to be eliminated, and they are meeting this afternoon at 2:00 at 100 Main Street and we should go and kill them now, that's incitement to imminent lawless action and it's not protected. There are certainly some gray areas in between.

[Fullduplexxx]

28. i understand that thanks

[TheBlackAdder]

52. No. Over half of the people in the FBI are Republicans too.

[Mr.Bill]

4. I think some of them support it. n/t

[Ocelot II]

5. The job of the DoJ is to enforce existing laws, not to prevent the creation of bad new ones.

The First Amendment allows people to say hateful things as long as they aren't immediately inciting violence. But the Florida law about removing children almost certainly will be found unconstitutional, as will most laws there and elsewhere restricting speech. Some of these proposed bills have not been enacted, and they will be challenged in court; even this Supreme Court has been protective of First Amendment rights. Obviously everything must be challenged but it has to go through the judicial process. The DoJ as part of the executive branch of the government is separate from the judicial branch and has a different role.

[lees1975]

6. No.

They'll putter around, make some headlines, pretend there's something happening, maybe even bring in a special investigator. But that's it.

There are Jews in this country who are making preparations to flee, and they're not thinking that the need to do so may be very far down the road.

[Marius25]

10. I'm Jewish and trying to figure out a way to leave the country

Unfortunately I don't have any options right now. I can't get a job anywhere else.

[Fiendish Thingy]

33. Canada is looking for lots of new immigrants

You don’t have to have a job first (unless you’re specifically seeking a work visa); permanent residency can be obtained a number of ways, including through the Skilled Worker program.

[Marius25]

49. I would love to move to Canada, but I doubt I fit the Skill Worker requirements

[Fiendish Thingy]

50. Look into it

You might be surprised. Having a college degree helps, but is not required. Years of work experience in the same field/position can give you lots of points as well.

There are other ways to get PR status besides skilled worker visa- Canada is looking for 500,000+ new immigrants every year for the next several years.

[Kid Berwyn]

7. Since November 22, 1963.

Facts curiously missing from American history and any mention of the assassination of President Kennedy in corporate media:

Two WC members helped bring NAZIs into mainstream USA.



Two of its members were directly responsible for the rise of post-war fascism. Allen Dulles, as a top official of the OSS and CIA, incorporated NAZI war criminals into the CIA from its founding. John McCloy, as High Commissioner for Germany, allowed Klaus Barbie, Alfred Krupp, eight members of his board, and who-knows-who-else to escape justice. Of course, Dulles and McCloy also were barons of Wall Street and Beltway Insiders, at the heart of the military industrial complex. We all can see what that means for the United States today.

Background:

The American who let the Nazis rebuild Germany

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/november-2021/the-american-who-let-the-nazis-rebuild-germany/

CIA and NAZI War Criminals

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB146/index.htm

[wnylib]

48. So true. At the end of WWII US concerns turned to

communism, the Soviet Union, and China. The US embraced and supported fascist dictatorships as insurance against the spread of communism.

[Paladin]

9. No. (nt)

[Kaleva]

11. They are protected by the 1st Amendment.

[Marius25]

12. Advocating genocide is not protected by the 1st Amendment

[Kaleva]

15. Yes it is

It's legal to buy and have in your possession Mein Kampf isn't it?

[Ocelot II]

17. It is protected unless it involves an incitement to imminent violence.

[NutmegYankee]

20. Can you cite a specific case that backs that up?

Because it doesn't run afoul of Brandenburg v. Ohio. I vehemently disagree with such speech, but I see no way it can be made illegal and meet the requirements of the First Amendment.

[Beastly Boy]

13. Why is DOJ being singled out to address Republican fascism?

Since when are they expected to be an arbiter of ideologies to be permitted under the law?

They are law enforces, not judges. they are law enforers, not legislators.

And they were always there to address commission of crimes. Including crimes committed by fascists. And not just Republican fascists.

[Autumn]

14. Nope. They won't even address white supremacy in their own ranks.

[Ocelot II]

16. God knows the FBI needs a thorough housecleaning, but even so,

the function of the FBI (DoJ) is to enforce existing laws, not to prevent the creation of bad new ones. A lot of what we are seeing in the states are proposed legislation which might not pass, and if it does probably won't survive court challenges. It's not even illegal to burn books (unless a fire code is being violated) unless an agency of the government does it; in that case there is a likely First Amendment violation - but that's up to the courts to decide, not the FBI.

[Autumn]

22. Is anyone advocating that the FBI and the DOJ create any new bad laws?

Addressing the fact that the Republican party has become a party of fascists is not creating any laws.

Don't ever hold your breath waiting for the courts to overturn the laws they are passing.

[Ocelot II]

25. There seems to be some misunderstanding of the role of the FBI.

The OP noted examples of developments indicating that the GOP, or at least significant segments of it, are heading toward (or actually have become) fascism, suggesting that it's up to the FBI to do something about it, maybe by designating the GOP a terrorist organization. The problem is that the Patriot Act (8 U.S.C. § 1182) authorizes the Secretary of State to designate foreign organizations as terrorists and was later amended to include a definition of domestic terrorism, but the law does not create a new crime of domestic terrorism. Unless the law is amended to make domestic terrorism an actual crime, the FBI can only prosecute crimes as currently defined if committed by a group claimed to be a domestic terrorist organization.

[Autumn]

29. No, the OP suggested that the FBI/ DOJ adress it. They have done it before

The Republican Party needs to be labeled a fascist terrorist organization by the FBI.

I take the adress it to mean that they have an obligation to point out that the Republican party has a hell of a lot of facists in their ranks.

The OP would like to see the FBI/DOJ addressing what the Republican party has become. Not making a new crime law. Domestic terrorism is already a Federal crime. The Republican party has become a racially/ethnically motivated extremists group. It's only a matter of time before they become violent.

A person engages in domestic terrorism if they do an act "dangerous to human life" that is a violation of the criminal laws of a state or the United States, if the act appears to be intended to: (i) intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping

Personally I believe the states and Republicans going after a women's right to a safe and legal abortion and the anti transgender laws they are passing are acts "dangerous to human life".

Strictly my opinion.

[Ocelot II]

30. Domestic terrorism is not actually a separate federal crime. An amendment to the Patriot Act

included a definition of domestic terrorism but it didn't create a separate crime of domestic terrorism. This has been a problem all along wrt prosecuting some of these groups. And for years some have been trying to have Antifa and Black Lives Matter and other liberal/progressive goups designated as terrorist organizations, see https://www.aclu.org/other/how-usa-patriot-act-redefines-domestic-terrorism , and the amendment does expand the ability of law enforcement to investigate. But unless an existing crime has been committed the FBI can't do anything. It's up to Congress to amend the Patriot Act again to make domestic terrorism an actual crime.

[Autumn]

36. No they didn't create a separate crime of domestic terrorism.

But domestic terrorism is punishable under Federal law.

[Ocelot II]

37. How is it punishable if it's not a crime? Do you have a citation to the penalty?

Obviously it's illegal to blow things up and shoot people and all the other things that are already crimes under both state and federal law, and there are penalties for those crimes, but if there's no separate crime of domestic terrorism there can't be a penalty for it.

[Autumn]

38. Why is domestic terrorism being prosecuted if it's not a crime?

Domestic Terrorism Cases on the Rise in February Following the January 6 Breach of the Capitol Building
In February 2021, according to federal internal case-by-case records on prosecutions obtained after successful court litigation by TRAC, there were 57 prosecutions of domestic terrorism filed in the federal district courts. The majority of these prosecutions—54—were filed in the District of Columbia following the storming of the Capitol on January 6. With a total of 144 charges of domestic terrorism filed in just the first five months of FY 2021, this year continues the sharp uptick in domestic terrorism cases that began last year when a record high of 183 were filed across the country.

While concern about domestic terrorism has heightened recently, in fact government internal case-by-case records indicate that except for three years following the attack on the twin towers, domestic terrorism prosecutions have outpaced those for international terrorism since federal prosecutors began systematically tracking terrorism cases twenty-five years ago. Over this span of time there have been over a thousand more domestic terrorism prosecutions than those for international terrorism. Prosecutions of international terrorism in the latest full fiscal year were among the lowest since before 9/11. See Table 1 below.

https://trac.syr.edu/tracreports/crim/642/

https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2022-12-14/five-arrested-domestic-terrorism-charges-site-future-atlanta-public

Five Arrested for Domestic Terrorism Charges at Site of Future Atlanta Public Safety Training Center
DECEMBER 14, 2022

Atlanta, GA (December 14, 2022) - Five people have been arrested and charged with domestic terrorism and other charges after a joint operation at the site of the future Atlanta Public Safety Training Center. The GBI is part of a joint task force formed to combat ongoing criminal activity at the Atlanta Police Department (APD) site. Yesterday, December 13, 2022, our agents assisted APD and other local, state, and task force members in an operation to remove barricades blocking some of the entrances to the training center.

Prior to yesterday’s operation, APD and other agencies had made several arrests over the past few months for the ongoing criminal activity at the site location. Some of the criminal activities include carjacking, various crimes against persons, destruction of property, arson, and attacks against public safety officials. Law enforcement continues to address the criminal acts committed by the individuals that continue to occupy the area of the proposed training site.

Yesterday, several people threw rocks at police cars and attacked EMT's outside the neighboring fire stations with rocks and bottles. Task force members used various tactics to arrest individuals who were occupying makeshift treehouses.

[Ocelot II]

39. The underlying acts that were committed under existing state and federal law

are being prosecuted, and would be with or without a domestic terrorism designation. There is no existing separate penalty just for being a domestic terrorist.

[Autumn]

40. I never said there was an existing separate penalty just for being a domestic terrorist.

I said

No they didn't create a separate crime of domestic terrorism.

But domestic terrorism is punishable under Federal law.

And I gave you links showing it is a crime that people have been charged and prosecuted with .

[Samrob]

19. It's not just happening here. It's happening all over the world.

It's as though time began in 2016 and there was no world or human history of before then so people don't know what all this can lead to.

[walkingman]

23. The only people that can rid us of these folks are the voters.

We all need to work to make voting free, fair, and easy. That is how a real democracy works.

[yaesu]

27. No. Nt

[Fiendish Thingy]

31. That's not how Democracy works

Prosecuting those who incite violence is one thing, and prosecuting violent militia groups is important, but outlawing a political party is straight up fascist bullshit.

[Ocelot II]

34. Yup. There are other ways of dealing with them.

Unless they are doing something illegal, the FBI has no role. That's not to say what they're up to isn't deplorable, because it is, but prosecuting and/or outlawing the entire GOP is, as you say, straight up fascist bullshit. The ACLU has been concerned that even the existing law on domestic terrorism threatens liberal and progressive groups: https://www.aclu.org/other/how-usa-patriot-act-redefines-domestic-terrorism . We need to be careful what we wish for.

[Chainfire]

32. The real question is how deep the Fascist sentiment has penetrated the FBI and DOJ.

I think that the FBI has already been exposed as biased towards the MAGA world. Yea, they have sacrificed Bubba from Tulsa, but they have tried to protect the heads of the mob from Jan 6, through the search of MAL (at least). DOJ? They may have delayed sufficiently already to prevent any Trial of Trump before the next Presidential elections so the only question is, is the foot dragging technical or political?

If the former President had been indicted yesterday, Trump, the master of delay, could delay a trial for 12-24 months from the indictment date. 12 months will be well into the "election season" and in 24 months will will be into the next Presidential term. As it stands in today's polls, Biden, who has been doing an outstanding job and producing great results, has the approval of less than half of the people polled. It ain't a good sign. One political disaster in the months before the next elections could sink him. If the Republicans aren't good for anything else, they are good at creating political disasters out of thin air.

Our only remaining ace in the hole lies in Georgia. Not a very comforting thought.

[fightforfreedom]

35. Trump idolized his father. Trump re-started the fascist movement his father was part of.

Read my recent post.

[Martin68]

41. What would be the legal basis for FBI/DoJ involvement?

[ShepKat]

42. Have they addressed the KKK yet ?

KKK seems to have all the freedoms. I'll know they are serious when they eliminate THAT terrorist group

[Warpy]

43. Not while they still call violent fascists "friendlies"

and not when their ranks are still infested by white supremacists. The ghost of J. Edgar Hoover still haunts that organization and they'll be unable to see exactly what is going on until they manage an exorcism.

[maveric]

44. When will the MSM address it?

Using the word Fascism.

[Botany]

45. Almost straight out of Joesph Gobbels mouth: "Regarding the Jewish question .... clean the table."

Joesph Gobbels: “Regarding the Jewish question, the Fuehrer is determined to clean the table. He prophesized that
should the Jews once again bring about a world war, they would be annihilated. These were no empty words. The world war has come, therefore the annihilation of the Jews has to be its inevitable consequence. The question has to be examined without any sentimentality. We are not here to pity Jews, but to have pity for our own German people. If the German people have sacrificed about 160,000 dead in the battles in the east, the instigators of this bloody conflict will have to pay for it with their lives.”


Michael Knowles tells CPAC that "there can be no middle way in dealing with transgenderism. ... Transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely."

[world wide wally]

46. I am afraid to say it, but I think most people would support facism if they

knew they could persoanally be the one in power. It takes actual thought and effort to support a democracy.

[calimary]

51. AND if it paid enough.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

47. No,too many are nazi sympathizers

The republicans have infiltrated police ,military,government. They have been doing this for decades . There are enough nazis and nazi sympathizers that they feel they can take over this country by force or legislation or both.


They got thier fascist supreme court. They will run over anything they dont like with impunity unless they are harshly dealt with, shamed, rejected
and humiliated by society until they go back under thier slimy rocks.

But while under those rocks they will again slowly work to undermine the democracy they hate until they get enough power and people in places to control everything and let thier treason flag fly. I wish we could make fascism and theocracy seen as traitorous or illegal.And get thier ultimate goal killing people.

I am of the firm belief that most multi millionaires, republicans and theocrats are corrupt and sociopathic. Our society and capitalism rewards sociopaths with power and wealth way too much to keep our society healthy democracy wise.

We need to purge our government of white nationalists and evangelical theocrat fascists..the traitors including the rich and republican ones ruthlessly and not be intimidated by them anymore..

So my answer to the question is no .