General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWould you use the word "evil" or "traitor" to describe anyone who is an outspoken election denier,
but in private thinks Joe Biden won fair and square?
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,363 posts)but I would say evil.
Mister Ed
(5,928 posts)"Treason" under US law has a very narrow and specific definition. The people in question aren't legally guilty of treason, but they do meet Definition 1 of the word "traitor":
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/traitor
gladium et scutum
(806 posts)Doodley
(9,078 posts)gladium et scutum
(806 posts)that do stupid things intentionally.
czarjak
(11,266 posts)Solly Mack
(90,762 posts)they desire. (ratings, money, power)
Doodley
(9,078 posts)Solly Mack
(90,762 posts)H2O Man
(73,528 posts)read between the lines here! (grin) Well done!
Solly Mack
(90,762 posts)sakabatou
(42,146 posts)TheRealNorth
(9,475 posts)Then yes, traitor is appropriate. As for the rest, it's a mixture of evil and/or stupid.
Doodley
(9,078 posts)ecstatic
(32,681 posts)It shows a complete lack of integrity and character. Lying to people who depend on you to speak the truth. Playing a role in the incitement of violence and chaos, racism and hatred. They don't care who gets killed as a result of their lies, as long as the checks keep coming. They'll say anything and not lose any sleep.
Honestly, someone like that is worse than an actual true believer. True believers are idiots. They have an excuse.
Doodley
(9,078 posts)dividing the people, stirring up fury, and trying to destroy our democracy. They use their platform to manipulate millions of people through lies and don't care in America burns down as a result. How is that not evil? Thank you for your reply.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,463 posts)I dont use the official definition.
I call them evil however because they are.
All nazis are evil.
RussBLib
(9,006 posts)Or asshole
Iggo
(47,548 posts)I would call them election denier.
Doodley
(9,078 posts)They have stirred up anger and fury among millions of people who now believe Joe Biden stole the election, and they don't care if our democracy and our peace is destroyed as a result, and therefore our nation, all for personal gain. Does the word evil or traitor not fit this?
Iggo
(47,548 posts)Evil and traitor would feel overly dramatic and pretentious spilling outa my mouth, less like describing and more like name-calling.
Maybe I took your question too literally. (Would you use
?) Because no, I wouldnt. But thats not me saying people cant call them whatever they want to call them. Thats just me saying I dont talk like that.
Midwestern Democrat
(806 posts)Evil is a term I would only use for the very worst people in society - serial killers, mass murderers, Hitler, etc. Traitor is a term I would only use for someone who was intentionally helping a foreign government do harm to the United States.
Iggo
(47,548 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 11, 2023, 02:08 PM - Edit history (1)
As Ive gotten older (61 and counting
), the more Ive thought about it, the word evil as an adjective is kind of useless to me. Im very comfortable using the word bad as the opposite of good. Evil the noun is a little closer in reach, and I leave some room for that as long as its not a religious argument for its existence. That I have no time for. But evil the adjective is basically removed from my lexicon as it relates to things that are real.
To me, it comes down to this: The opposite of good is bad. The opposite of evil is
what? I havent found a satisfying answer to that.
Traitor is much easier. Thats a spy or a turncoat. (Not a best friend who steals my girlfriend
lol.)
yardwork
(61,588 posts)Iggo
(47,548 posts)Technically, its anyone who betrays you, and I got a lot of better words for that.
Like I said in another reply, Im not telling you youre wrong or you cant say that. Im telling you I dont really talk like that. (I admit I probably took the question in the OP too literally
lol.)
yardwork
(61,588 posts)Many people sincerely believe the 2020 election was stolen, because they're misinformed. But Tucker Carlson admitted in texts that he knew the election was not stolen, yet he continued to tell millions of viewers that it was. It's a very serious thing to lie about, going to the heart of our democracy.
For that reason, I call Tucker Carlson a traitor.
Iggo
(47,548 posts)Ive been trying for a couple of days to come up with an answer to, Oh yeah? Well then whats a traitor? And I wanted it to be any oath-breaker, but I wouldnt call an ex-spouse a traitor, so my attempt at a catch-all definition ended up catching too much lol. But Im thinking its more along the lines of spies and turncoats than conmen, liars, and thieves.
lees1975
(3,845 posts)If you know what's true and you deliberately deny it.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)peggysue2
(10,828 posts)I could certainly apply the term 'evil' to the Neo-Nazis for all the bigotry and hate. Then there are the seditionists, the armed militias like the Proud Boys who saw an opportunity to raise their profile and gain the power as an enforcement group. And then others who simply enjoy stirring up shit.
The word 'traitor' is a shorthand, I think, for the way many of us feel about the America First Movement without matching the full legal definition of anyone, everyone involved.
As for actually believing Joe Biden won the election?
I tend to believe the vast majority do understand that, certainly the politicians, lawyers, professional mouthpieces. They've spread the lies because it's convenient to do so, because there's money to make, power to grab. But I also think there is a swath of America still in the Trump Trance, fortified by the lies, the conspiracy theories, the gaslighting, the whole propaganda machine to keep them marching forward, mumbling the same Stop the Steal malarkey, for whom Trump's words about being their warrior, their justice, their retribution makes sense and sounds absolutely true.
Before Trump, my own mother fell under the spell of Rush Limbaugh who railed against the Commies, the Feminists, the Ne'er-do-Wells changing the country for the worst, to a place she no longer recognized. He spoke directly to her bitterness, her grievances about her personal situation that really involved a disappointing marriage, her health and age, her sense of isolation. She had her afternoon Manhattan and drank it all down, defended the man whenever we had a conversation about politics or world events. And then, we stopped having those conversations because they were fractious and pointless.
So different levels of participation, self-destructive attitudes and behavior out there. All of it corrosive.
Samrob
(4,298 posts)Response to Doodley (Original post)
traitorsgalore This message was self-deleted by its author.
Doodley
(9,078 posts)to assist an attempted takeover of our nation with what would be a fascist regime. If people can't bring themselves to call that treason, then what would it take?
jalan48
(13,856 posts)dishonest in a way that is intended to make somebody believe something that is not true
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/duplicitous
betsuni
(25,456 posts)And call Democrats the lesser of two evils.