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Beachnutt

(7,287 posts)
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 10:53 AM Mar 2023

LOCK HIM UP, He's going down for TAX FRAUD





NY case against Donald is all about Tax fraud. Stormy Daniel’s is just a small piece of evidence. His organization has already been found guilty of tax fraud.

Donald is being taken down like Al Capone for tax fraud. He’s guilty as hell. False reporting. It will stick.
38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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LOCK HIM UP, He's going down for TAX FRAUD (Original Post) Beachnutt Mar 2023 OP
That's what I think. I don't think Alan Weisselberg wants to spend the rest of his life in jail Walleye Mar 2023 #1
Rest of his life? former9thward Mar 2023 #5
From what I understand the feds have new charges Beachnutt Mar 2023 #6
We'll see. former9thward Mar 2023 #28
Weisselberg's deal specifically stated that he wouldn't implicate tfg. Scrivener7 Mar 2023 #9
Maybe they have more charges after this they could put on him Walleye Mar 2023 #10
Get Nick Gravante as your lawyer. Scrivener7 Mar 2023 #11
What is new has to do with more charges against Weisselberg and/or his family., Samrob Mar 2023 #16
Yes, one can bet the Feds can and will post new, and many, charges against him. Also, his son who... machoneman Mar 2023 #17
What charges? former9thward Mar 2023 #29
This message was self-deleted by its author Scrivener7 Mar 2023 #18
Did you mean this as a reply to someone else? It doesn't seem to be a reply to Scrivener7 Mar 2023 #21
Outfuckingstanding!!! SheltieLover Mar 2023 #2
Will the public be able to see exactly what the charges are? oregonjen Mar 2023 #3
yes. mopinko Mar 2023 #4
Yes,once the grand jury unseals the indictments it's there for all to see nt yaesu Mar 2023 #7
Tisha James big tax fraud isn't due for trial until October BumRushDaShow Mar 2023 #8
I think this is where the tax case will come from. Not from Bragg. Scrivener7 Mar 2023 #12
Exactly. BumRushDaShow Mar 2023 #15
My worst fear is that this Bragg thing will be a lot of buildup and it will be the misdemeanor case. Scrivener7 Mar 2023 #34
This case is definitely the "lowest" (most minor) of the whole slew of cases in play BumRushDaShow Mar 2023 #35
i was hoping that he would be charged with trying to over throw the gvt, AllaN01Bear Mar 2023 #13
Rikers Island is still open and taking customers. It's the perfect place for Traitor Tot. OMGWTF Mar 2023 #19
He can hang out with Harvey Weinstein. gldstwmn Mar 2023 #25
K&R Emile Mar 2023 #14
And if he's in for life, keep it prolonged. No stranglings while the cameras are malfunctioning. erronis Mar 2023 #20
Better! Hillary comes in as a visitor to mock him and knifes him...in the mushroom groin! machoneman Mar 2023 #23
The GA vote churning investigation, I hope, comes fast and next. Nail his sorry azz now! machoneman Mar 2023 #22
Bragg should have continued with the RICO prosecution. gldstwmn Mar 2023 #24
Well it stuck with Capone. PatrickforB Mar 2023 #26
Cohen Johnny2X2X Mar 2023 #27
Cohen was charged with tax evasion. former9thward Mar 2023 #30
Cohen was charged with campaign Johnny2X2X Mar 2023 #33
From DOJ's release regarding Cohen's charges (both were "falsifying" records for the same thing) BumRushDaShow Mar 2023 #37
Most of what I am seeing is that this will be for the Stormy Daniels payment Scrivener7 Mar 2023 #31
I'm happy about the pending indictment but Elessar Zappa Mar 2023 #36
None of the articles I've read suggest he'll be charged with tax evasion. onenote Mar 2023 #32
As likely as anything Stinky The Clown Mar 2023 #38

Beachnutt

(7,287 posts)
6. From what I understand the feds have new charges
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 11:11 AM
Mar 2023

on weiselberg that are or have been used for leverage in exchange for him singing.

Scrivener7

(50,916 posts)
9. Weisselberg's deal specifically stated that he wouldn't implicate tfg.
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 11:25 AM
Mar 2023

That deal was accepted by the prosecutors.

Why would he go against that?

Walleye

(30,980 posts)
10. Maybe they have more charges after this they could put on him
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 11:42 AM
Mar 2023

I didn’t see that he had promised not to implicate Trump. Don’t know how you get a deal like that

Scrivener7

(50,916 posts)
11. Get Nick Gravante as your lawyer.
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 11:46 AM
Mar 2023
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/18/nyregion/weisselberg-trump-guilty-plea.html
But for prosecutors who have long sought to indict Mr. Trump, Thursday’s hearing was something of a consolation prize. Mr. Weisselberg refused to turn on Mr. Trump himself, something prosecutors had hoped he would do since they charged him with 15 felonies last July.

Under the plea deal, Mr. Weisselberg must pay nearly $2 million in taxes, penalties and interest after accepting lavish off-the-books perks from Mr. Trump and his company, including leased Mercedes-Benzes, an apartment on Manhattan’s Upper West Side and private school tuition for his grandchildren.

He also must point the finger at his longtime employer, the Trump Organization, at its trial in October. In exchange, Mr. Weisselberg, who was facing years in prison, is likely to receive a five-month jail sentence, and with time credited for good behavior, he might serve as little as 100 days.


The article goes on to say that if the Trump Org had pled, Weisselberg would have had a shorter prison term. The Trump Org refused, and Weisselberg STILL stayed loyal. So I don't see him changing his mind now.

Samrob

(4,298 posts)
16. What is new has to do with more charges against Weisselberg and/or his family.,
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:26 PM
Mar 2023

If folks want to get out in the streets and protest an indictment on Trump so be it. They will have to face their own charges. And Kevin, and MTG ought to face charges of trying to obstruct justice. Too many good ordinary citizens are suffering by paying their taxes, not breaking the law, and not trying to overthrow their own government. They are not being bombed by a foreign nation and having their homes destroyed like the Ukrainians. We surely love our country as much as they love Ukraine. Why would we tolerate the destruction of our nations by insurgents and insurrectionists whom we outnumber significantly? And why would any of us fight against our government at a time when we are depending on it to get us through one natural disaster after another and to protect us against unscrupulous bankers and corporate thugs? STAND!!!

machoneman

(3,997 posts)
17. Yes, one can bet the Feds can and will post new, and many, charges against him. Also, his son who...
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:37 PM
Mar 2023

..was complicit in most dealings with TFG, his organization and the fake books. Look at it this way: the old man may still take prison (short as it may be) but if his kid is similarly indicted and would spend serious time in jail, the old man might save him by squealing.

Hey, once a crook.....

The old man likely did other nefarious things still under investigation.

former9thward

(31,941 posts)
29. What charges?
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 02:27 PM
Mar 2023

In my dealings with the DOJ they don't hold back charges. Especially after someone has been tried and is doing a sentence.

Response to Samrob (Reply #16)

BumRushDaShow

(128,496 posts)
8. Tisha James big tax fraud isn't due for trial until October
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 11:13 AM
Mar 2023

Although "hiding" the hush payment in that manner could obviously be a charge.

New York to Trump: No more delay in civil fraud case
Attorney General Letitia James urged a judge to reject Trump's bid to delay the case, saying the former president might use his 2024


March 16, 2023, 11:25 AM EDT / Source: Reuters
By Reuters

New York’s attorney general urged a state judge to reject Donald Trump’s bid to delay her civil fraud case against him, and said the former U.S. president might use his 2024 White House run as an excuse for further delay.

In a Wednesday night court filing, Attorney General Letitia James said her office had provided Trump and other defendants with an “enormous quantity” of material, including 1.7 million documents and interview transcripts for 56 witnesses.

She said that negates their plea for an extra six months to gather evidence to defend themselves adequately at trial, now scheduled for Oct. 2, and accused them of being slow to conduct their own witness depositions. “The record defendants have and are compiling is more than sufficient to afford them due process and prevent the trial from becoming a game of surprise,” James said.

“When the calendar turns over into 2024, Donald J. Trump will be in the midst of a campaign for President,” she added. “Defendants have used his campaign as a reason for delay in both 2016 and 2020. There is no reason to believe 2024 will be any different.” Lawyers for the defendants did not immediately respond on Thursday to requests for comment.

(snip)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/new-york-trump-no-delay-civil-fraud-case-rcna75282

BumRushDaShow

(128,496 posts)
35. This case is definitely the "lowest" (most minor) of the whole slew of cases in play
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 04:24 PM
Mar 2023

In other words, it is the "low hanging fruit" case.

Apparently the fine line that would need to be proven to distinguish "misdemeanor" vs "felony" in NY statute is noted here -

§ 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.


To get the felony, the DA would need to show that not only was the falsifying of the actual purpose of the "payment" (his reimbursement of "hush money" to Cohen) was associated with his "business" and was to defraud, but was to also cover for commission of some other crime. In this case, it was one of those things where Cohen had apparently been directed to pay the $130K to Stormy and 45 reimbursed him for that BUT reported it as legal services or whatever. From what I understand "hush money" payments aren't supposedly "illegal" and can be part of a NDA but then who should have been signatory of the NDA might be the hitch - i.e., should have been 45 vs his lawyer supposedly doing it "on his own".

In Stormy's case, there have been allegations of her engaging in "extortion" resulting in that NDA and the $130K and that is a narrative that continues to float out there.

Meanwhile Cohen had been convicted in federal court and served time in prison for that payment (among other criminal things).

So the direct tie might conceivably be 45 "writing out and signing the check" to Cohen and falsifying what the payment was for and they would need to show what else might have been going on (obviously an election being one) to cause the equivalent of a "catch and kill" payment through the non-disclosure agreement (that was eventually breached allowing everyone to know this even happened), but not designating it as that (cover up).

AllaN01Bear

(17,995 posts)
13. i was hoping that he would be charged with trying to over throw the gvt,
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:14 PM
Mar 2023

but this will do .too bad alcatraz was decommissioned.

erronis

(15,183 posts)
20. And if he's in for life, keep it prolonged. No stranglings while the cameras are malfunctioning.
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:41 PM
Mar 2023

I'd like him to very slowly rot in prison. Family destitute. Rats crawling over his bloated body. (Images of "The Pit and the Pendulum.)

machoneman

(3,997 posts)
22. The GA vote churning investigation, I hope, comes fast and next. Nail his sorry azz now!
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 12:49 PM
Mar 2023

The tax fraud trial would be long, complex and give TFG's attorneys plenty to dispute. The Stormy indictment and the GA vote turning indictment, soon to come, are pretty (actually very) straightforward in comparison. If he's found guilty and is jailed, the far, far more complex tax fraud can literally play out over a longer time period, allowing prosecutors to build a better case.

Btw, I do believe the Stormy case would generate the least jail time, the GA case the most and the tax fraud case, IF they can pin his actions to it, somewhere in between.

Johnny2X2X

(18,973 posts)
27. Cohen
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 01:30 PM
Mar 2023

Michael Cohen was sentenced to 3 years in prison for his part in the exact crimes Trump is about to be charged with.

former9thward

(31,941 posts)
30. Cohen was charged with tax evasion.
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 02:42 PM
Mar 2023

In addition to lying to Congress. If the news is to be believed Trump will be charged with a business records violation. Not really the same as Cohen.

Johnny2X2X

(18,973 posts)
33. Cohen was charged with campaign
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 03:02 PM
Mar 2023

Cohen Criminal charges
5 counts of tax evasion
1 count of making false statements to a financial institution
1 count of willfully causing an unlawful corporate contribution
1 count of making an excessive campaign contribution at the request of a candidate or campaign
1 count of making false statements to a congressional committee

Trump will be charged with at least 3 of those crimes.

BumRushDaShow

(128,496 posts)
37. From DOJ's release regarding Cohen's charges (both were "falsifying" records for the same thing)
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 05:13 PM
Mar 2023
Southern District of New York

U.S. Attorneys » Southern District of New York » News » Press Releases

Department of Justice
U.S. Attorney’s Office
Southern District of New York

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Tuesday, August 21, 2018

Michael Cohen Pleads Guilty In Manhattan Federal Court To Eight Counts, Including Criminal Tax Evasion And Campaign Finance Violations

Plea Follows Filing of Eight Count Criminal Information Alleging Concealment of More Than $4 Million in Unreported Income, $280,000 in Unlawful Campaign Contributions


(snip)

Second, on October 8, 2016, an agent for an adult film actress (“Woman-2”) informed Editor-1 that Woman-2 was willing to make public statements and confirm on the record her alleged past affair with Individual-1. Chairman-1 and Editor-1 then contacted COHEN and put him in touch with Attorney-1, who was also representing Woman-2. Over the course of the next few days, COHEN negotiated a $130,000 agreement with Attorney-1 to himself purchase Woman-2’s silence, and received a signed confidential settlement agreement and a separate side letter agreement from Attorney-1.

COHEN did not immediately execute the agreement, nor did he pay Woman-2. On the evening of October 25, 2016, with no deal with Woman-2 finalized, Attorney-1 told Editor-1 that Woman-2 was close to completing a deal with another outlet to make her story public. Editor-1, in turn, texted COHEN that “[w]e have to coordinate something on the matter [Attorney-1 is] calling you about or it could look awfully bad for everyone.” Chairman-1 and Editor-1 then called COHEN through an encrypted telephone application. COHEN agreed to make the payment, and then called Attorney-1 to finalize the deal.

The next day, on October 26, 2016, COHEN emailed an incorporating service to obtain the corporate formation documents for another shell corporation, Essential Consultants LLC, which COHEN had incorporated a few days prior. Later that afternoon, COHEN drew down $131,000 from the fraudulently obtained HELOC and requested that it be deposited into a bank account COHEN had just opened in the name of Essential Consultants. The next morning, on October 27, 2016, COHEN went to Bank-3 and wired approximately $130,000 from Essential Consultants to Attorney-1. On the bank form to complete the wire, COHEN falsely indicated that the “purpose of wire being sent” was “retainer.” On November 1, 2016, COHEN received from Attorney-1 copies of the final, signed confidential settlement agreement and side letter agreement.

COHEN caused and made the payments described herein in order to influence the 2016 presidential election. In so doing, he coordinated with one or more members of the campaign, including through meetings and phone calls, about the fact, nature, and timing of the payments. As a result of the payments solicited and made by COHEN, neither Woman-1 nor Woman-2 spoke to the press prior to the election.

In January 2017, COHEN in seeking reimbursement for election-related expenses, presented executives of the Company* with a copy of a bank statement from the Essential Consultants bank account, which reflected the $130,000 payment COHEN had made to the bank account of Attorney-1 in order to keep Woman-2 silent in advance of the election, plus a $35 wire fee, adding, in handwriting, an additional “$50,000.” The $50,000 represented a claimed payment for “tech services,” which in fact related to work COHEN had solicited from a technology company during and in connection with the campaign. COHEN added these amounts to a sum of $180,035. After receiving this document, executives of the Company “grossed up” for tax purposes COHEN’s requested reimbursement of $180,000 to $360,000, and then added a bonus of $60,000 so that COHEN would be paid $420,000 in total. Executives of the Company also determined that the $420,000 would be paid to COHEN in monthly amounts of $35,000 over the course of 12 months, and that COHEN should send invoices for these payments.

On February 14, 2017, COHEN sent an executive of the Company (“Executive-1”) the first of his monthly invoices, requesting “[p]ursuant to [a] retainer agreement, . . . payment for services rendered for the months of January and February, 2017.” The invoice listed $35,000 for each of those two months. Executive-1 forwarded the invoice to another executive of the Company (“Executive-2”) the same day by email, and it was approved. Executive-1 forwarded that email to another employee at the Company, stating: “Please pay from the Trust. Post to legal expenses. Put ‘retainer for the months of January and February 2017’ in the description.”

Throughout 2017, COHEN sent to one or more representatives of the Company monthly invoices, which stated, “Pursuant to the retainer agreement, kindly remit payment for services rendered for” the relevant month in 2017, and sought $35,000 per month. The Company accounted for these payments as legal expenses. In truth and in fact, there was no such retainer agreement, and the monthly invoices COHEN submitted were not in connection with any legal services he had provided in 2017.

During 2017, pursuant to the invoices described above, COHEN received monthly $35,000 reimbursement checks, totaling $420,000.

* * *

(snip)

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/michael-cohen-pleads-guilty-manhattan-federal-court-eight-counts-including-criminal-tax


Note that "*" reference for "the Company" has a defining statement listed near the beginning of the release as -

COHEN was an attorney and employee of a Manhattan-based real estate company (the “Company” )

Scrivener7

(50,916 posts)
31. Most of what I am seeing is that this will be for the Stormy Daniels payment
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 02:52 PM
Mar 2023

and that is a misdemeanor.

Weisselberg is already serving his sentence. The trump organization was given a nominal fine on the strength of Weisselberg's testimony, and Weisselberg did not testify against tfg.

If there are other charges, including tax charges, they won't come from Weisselberg. Any tax charges, if they come, will probably come from Tish and not Alvin.

Elessar Zappa

(13,911 posts)
36. I'm happy about the pending indictment but
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 04:30 PM
Mar 2023

you’re right that it’s a less serious charge. I think the charges that could land him in prison will come from the special counsel.

onenote

(42,592 posts)
32. None of the articles I've read suggest he'll be charged with tax evasion.
Sat Mar 18, 2023, 02:53 PM
Mar 2023

It appears that falsifying business records will be the centerpiece of any charges brought by Bragg. And several knowledgable observers believe getting that charge bumped from a misdemeanor to a felony is not a slam dunk.

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