No one should minimize the anticipated arrest of this former president for lesser crimes

[bigtree]

...than expected from DOJ, or characterize this coming state prosecution as a big ado about nothing.

There's no precedent to the former leader of the U.S. facing criminal prosecution which will likely include felony charges. Trump will also be the first major presidential candidate under indictment seeking office.

It's a national disgrace, and there is no way to cover for these crimes by comparing them to other more consequential criminality being investigated in dual DOJ grand juries, or any other dubious comparison.

Prosecutors are weighing whether to charge Trump with falsifying business records of the Trump organization to hide the reimbursement of the payment to Cohen, who said he advanced the money to Daniels. Falsifying business records is a misdemeanor in New York.

Manhattan prosecutors are also deliberating whether to charge Trump with falsifying business records in the first degree for falsifying a record with the intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal another crime, which in this case could be a violation of campaign finance laws. That is a Class E felony and carries a sentence of a minimum of one year and as much as four years.

Don't forget, Michael Cohen was sentenced to three years in prison after pleading guilty to eight counts, including two counts of campaign-finance violations for orchestrating or making payments during the 2016 campaign on Trump's orders. Trump's jeopardy could be much the same with a mix of chrges related to the Trump organization making those payments to Cohen, especially after their focus on the org's financial dealings.

Trump and his family weren't charged in that case, but Trump was mentioned repeatedly during the trial by prosecutors about his connection to the benefits doled out to executives. There's a civil lawsuit underway in NY alleging he and his family were involved in a decade-long fraud involving Trump Corp. and Trump Payroll Corp..

This is a big farking deal, and it's just the beginning of the legal accountability and jeopardy Trump is facing. He'll be under the supervision of a judge who is charged with making certain defendants don't intimidate witnesses, tamper with evidence, or incite violence while under their jurisdiction, under threat of jail and other sanctions.

Trump's world transforms from a bubble of impunity into a panoply of accountability and consequence this week. Only those intent on defining deviancy down can put a positive spin on it.

[wnylib]

2. From the second paragraph:

"There's no precedent to the leader of the US facing prosecution ..."

President Joseph Biden is the current leader of the US and is not, AFAIK, facing any charges.

But a FORMER president/leader of the US is facing likely charges on several counts. He is just a citizen now, like the rest of us.

Yes, it is unprecedented that a former US President faces criminal charges. There have been a few others who deserved it (Nixon, Bush Jr) but none of them were as deeply embedded in widespread criminal activities as the investigations of Trump indicate.

[bigtree]

4. president, former president

...no precedent.

Unless you count the time Grant was 'arrested' for speeding in his carriage.

[wnylib]

8. I never felt like Trump was MY leader,

even when he was in office. He sure as hell is not my leader now.

[Casady1]

3. I think this will be viewed by many

as a two bit crime. I'm not saying it is but they will view it as paying off for a sexual indiscretion. Even the documents one will be viewed that way. The one that matters is Georgia. The big trouble on that one is he race of the prosecutor. We may not like it but America is very divided on racial lines and whether we like it or not many of his supporters will think of it as reverse racism.

[bigtree]

5. I don't think America is as divided as the right wing likes to claim

Last edited Mon Mar 20, 2023, 11:51 AM - Edit history (1)

...that's actually the source of the ire of the MAGA crowd that America has moved past the divisions their ilk nurtured and fomented for decades.

America isn't a Trump nation, and there will be more than enough support for holding him to the law, live every one of us who aren't privileged.

Besides, the only narrative that counts is the one inside of the courtroom. After conviction, I doubt there will be some sizable lawless wave of Americans standing up to defend Trump against trying to cover up a tawdry affair with a porn star.

[Casady1]

7. I live in GA

and I used to sell cash registers in MTG's district. If you had told me that this area was going to elect a MTG 20 years ago I would have said you are crazy. I was always treated ok and I am a minority.
I think her district represents a good 30% of our country. I think there is another 10% of the republicans who will end up siding with Trump after this. That is close to 40% of the electorate. As far as the country being split just look around. Even a DeSantis feels this way.

[BlackSkimmer]

11. One of our own got away with a similar transgression. Perhaps you remember?

He was NOT convicted.

If tfg skates through this, as he usually does, it will have no good outcome.

[BumRushDaShow]

27. "One of our own got away with a similar transgression. Perhaps you remember?"

Definitely not the same because there were no "shell companies" created by a lawyer to draw fraudulent funds from (home equity line of credit applied to shell company) to pay off the individual subjected to a NDA, and then get reimbursed via individual payments over a year's period under the supposed reporting of being a legal "retainer" for "election-related expenses".

Southern District of New York

U.S. Attorneys » Southern District of New York » News » Press Releases

Department of Justice
U.S. Attorney’s Office
Southern District of New York

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Tuesday, August 21, 2018

Michael Cohen Pleads Guilty In Manhattan Federal Court To Eight Counts, Including Criminal Tax Evasion And Campaign Finance Violations

Plea Follows Filing of Eight Count Criminal Information Alleging Concealment of More Than $4 Million in Unreported Income, $280,000 in Unlawful Campaign Contributions

(snip)

Second, on October 8, 2016, an agent for an adult film actress (“Woman-2”) informed Editor-1 that Woman-2 was willing to make public statements and confirm on the record her alleged past affair with Individual-1. Chairman-1 and Editor-1 then contacted COHEN and put him in touch with Attorney-1, who was also representing Woman-2. Over the course of the next few days, COHEN negotiated a $130,000 agreement with Attorney-1 to himself purchase Woman-2’s silence, and received a signed confidential settlement agreement and a separate side letter agreement from Attorney-1.

COHEN did not immediately execute the agreement, nor did he pay Woman-2. On the evening of October 25, 2016, with no deal with Woman-2 finalized, Attorney-1 told Editor-1 that Woman-2 was close to completing a deal with another outlet to make her story public. Editor-1, in turn, texted COHEN that “[w]e have to coordinate something on the matter [Attorney-1 is] calling you about or it could look awfully bad for everyone.” Chairman-1 and Editor-1 then called COHEN through an encrypted telephone application. COHEN agreed to make the payment, and then called Attorney-1 to finalize the deal.

The next day, on October 26, 2016, COHEN emailed an incorporating service to obtain the corporate formation documents for another shell corporation, Essential Consultants LLC, which COHEN had incorporated a few days prior. Later that afternoon, COHEN drew down $131,000 from the fraudulently obtained HELOC and requested that it be deposited into a bank account COHEN had just opened in the name of Essential Consultants. The next morning, on October 27, 2016, COHEN went to Bank-3 and wired approximately $130,000 from Essential Consultants to Attorney-1. On the bank form to complete the wire, COHEN falsely indicated that the “purpose of wire being sent” was “retainer.” On November 1, 2016, COHEN received from Attorney-1 copies of the final, signed confidential settlement agreement and side letter agreement.

COHEN caused and made the payments described herein in order to influence the 2016 presidential election. In so doing, he coordinated with one or more members of the campaign, including through meetings and phone calls, about the fact, nature, and timing of the payments. As a result of the payments solicited and made by COHEN, neither Woman-1 nor Woman-2 spoke to the press prior to the election.

In January 2017, COHEN in seeking reimbursement for election-related expenses, presented executives of the Company* with a copy of a bank statement from the Essential Consultants bank account, which reflected the $130,000 payment COHEN had made to the bank account of Attorney-1 in order to keep Woman-2 silent in advance of the election, plus a $35 wire fee, adding, in handwriting, an additional “$50,000.” The $50,000 represented a claimed payment for “tech services,” which in fact related to work COHEN had solicited from a technology company during and in connection with the campaign. COHEN added these amounts to a sum of $180,035. After receiving this document, executives of the Company “grossed up” for tax purposes COHEN’s requested reimbursement of $180,000 to $360,000, and then added a bonus of $60,000 so that COHEN would be paid $420,000 in total. Executives of the Company also determined that the $420,000 would be paid to COHEN in monthly amounts of $35,000 over the course of 12 months, and that COHEN should send invoices for these payments.

On February 14, 2017, COHEN sent an executive of the Company (“Executive-1”) the first of his monthly invoices, requesting “[p]ursuant to [a] retainer agreement, . . . payment for services rendered for the months of January and February, 2017.” The invoice listed $35,000 for each of those two months. Executive-1 forwarded the invoice to another executive of the Company (“Executive-2”) the same day by email, and it was approved. Executive-1 forwarded that email to another employee at the Company, stating: “Please pay from the Trust. Post to legal expenses. Put ‘retainer for the months of January and February 2017’ in the description.”

Throughout 2017, COHEN sent to one or more representatives of the Company monthly invoices, which stated, “Pursuant to the retainer agreement, kindly remit payment for services rendered for” the relevant month in 2017, and sought $35,000 per month. The Company accounted for these payments as legal expenses. In truth and in fact, there was no such retainer agreement, and the monthly invoices COHEN submitted were not in connection with any legal services he had provided in 2017.

During 2017, pursuant to the invoices described above, COHEN received monthly $35,000 reimbursement checks, totaling $420,000.

* * *

(snip)

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/michael-cohen-pleads-guilty-manhattan-federal-court-eight-counts-including-criminal-tax

Note that "*" reference for "the Company" has a defining statement listed near the beginning of the release as -

COHEN was an attorney and employee of a Manhattan-based real estate company (the “Company” )

[BlackSkimmer]

29. Of course, the cases are not identical, hence the word "similar".

However he was charged with something like seven counts of various categories.

Only faced one that he had to fight in court, and he got away with it.

This is by no means an open and shut case.

[BumRushDaShow]

31. Agree that none of this stuff will be open and shut!

It's just a start of something that NY should have been doing after his last charges almost 50 years ago and, with illegalities that have been going non-stop ever since. DA after DA, state AG after state AG, and US Attorney after US Attorney, kicked the can down the road and I think right now, everyone is seeing why.



(sorry )

[moniss]

32. If you are talking about Bill Clinton I disagree

with your comparison of the two matters. Clinton appeared to prevaricate and mince words about whether he had sexual relations with Monica. He did have his law license suspended and pay a fine. He wasn't paying her off during an election cycle in order to keep it hushed up and then claiming it as a business expense and violating campaign finance laws. Clinton was found guilty of lying under oath in the Paula Jones case and was ordered to pay $90,000. Jones had a civil case which was settled for $850,000.

If you are talking about Edwards he did not "get away" but was charged and tried resulting in one count being found not guilty and a hung jury on the other charges. DOJ decided to not pursue retrial. That was their decision.

[Lonestarblue]

12. The MAGA crowd doesn't blink at adultery, so it's no big deal to them.

Even though many in the MAGA cult claim to be Christians, their actions undercut their claims. I’m thinking of Boebert and her bragging on becoming a grandmother to annout-of-wedlock child. I’m thinking of Kim Davis, who also had children out of wedlock and if I recall correctly had an affair while married, but used her religious beliefs to refuse marriage certificates for same-sex couples. I’m thinking of all the Trump supporters who excused his daily lies as Trump just being Trump when their Bible calls lying an abomination in dozens of verses.

[AllaN01Bear]

15. but lest a democrat do it , omg

[BlackSkimmer]

30. Sadly, a Dem has done it.

Something quite similar involving "another woman."

[Locrian]

21. I think you're 100% correct

this could backfire and now any charge comes off as a "witch hunt".

(hope Im wrong....)

[emulatorloo]

6. Well said. Recommended.

[2naSalit]

9. There is...

More going on than we hear about.

I'm ready for all of it.

[Quixote1818]

10. No one should be above the law. Especially privileged rich assholes who break the law! nt

[gab13by13]

13. If Alvin Bragg

indicts Trump for just a misdemeanor, it will strengthen Trump.

That is just a fact. Have at indicting Trump for lesser felonies, that is perfectly OK. I don't think Trump should be indicted for seditious conspiracy, it's too hard of a crime to prove.

[bigtree]

16. FOUR perps ALREADY CONVICTED of seditious conspiracy

...which isn't actually anticipated in Manhattan.

We don't know yet what DOJ has in the way of evidence of a link to Trump in those conspiracies.

Four Oath Keepers Found Guilty of Seditious Conspiracy Related to U.S. Capitol Breach- Defendants Also Convicted of Related Felony Charges
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/four-oath-keepers-found-guilty-seditious-conspiracy-related-us-capitol-breach

Interesting, though, to see an ardent critic of DOJ's pace of investigation asserting that "seditious conspiracy is too hard of a crime to prove."

[Bev54]

25. Proud Boys trial has now been turned over to the defense, expected to take another 2-3 weeks

I hope they get seditious conspiracy on them as well. This is so paving the way for same charges with Trump's underlings like Stone, Jones and others and hopefully Trump himself.

[bigtree]

28. exactly

...Enrique Tarrio, and his 'Boys' ties to longtime Trump confidant Roger Stone.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/17/politics/roger-stone-proud-boys-amy-berman-jackson/index.html

[edisdead]

14. it makes sense to me that lesser crimes would come now

it makes sense to me that lesser crimes would come now and potentially larger crimes later. Prepare the populace and desensitize the situation.

[Bev54]

26. I had wondered the same, if they are testing the waters.

[Scrivener7]

36. I don't see any reason to believe this is a test of the waters with a lesser crime.

This is just the one that came up first.

And we don't, in fact, know what crime we are talking about.

[edisdead]

37. That is true

I am just saying I could see it playing out that way. Of course that doesn’t mean thats the way it will play. As you said we really don’t know what will take place. We are all just basically guessing based on what we know.

[Scrivener7]

38. I think this, from what we can see, was one of the easier to prove, so in that sense

you might be right about moving from easier to more difficult.

That is concerning, though, because more complicated cases are the ones which do us the most damage and their delay continues the damage.

[Iggo]

17. I'm minimizing the anticipation.

[Beastly Boy]

18. Bragg is breaking precedent.

It doesn't matter if he gets an indictment against Trump for jaywalking. He is opening the doors wide open for DOJ to go after Trump for more serious crimes.

Misdemeanor my ass! Bragg is an American hero.

[betsuni]

19. K&R

[Wild blueberry]

20. Panoply of accountability

I'm ready.
Thank you for your post.

[DinahMoeHum]

22. Remember Al Capone. He ultimately got nailed and went to prison. . .

. . .for tax evasion.

[bigtree]

33. ·

Michael Beschloss @BeschlossDC 35m
Al Capone’s fingerprints:

[Cha]

34. Yes.. I was actually thinking

of Al Capone when reading the OP.

And dt has a lot more pending Indictments than Capone to worry about.

dt needs to Learn.. No one is above the Law. If you don't want to do the time Don't do the Crime, Stupid.

[onecaliberal]

23. We have never had this level of corruption and criming and we've had some doozies.

A loser president has also never sent psychotic followers to hang their own VP, or murder member of the opposite party.

These people are evil and need to suffer the consequences of their crimes.

[H2O Man]

24. Recommended.

[Skittles]

35. Russia helped this man become "president"

but he's being held accountable for...... paying off a hooker.....but, yeah OK