General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAmerica Has Decided It Went Overboard on Covid-19
The idea that pandemic response went too far is no longer confined to the marginshttps://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/17/opinion/covid-19-pandemic-masks-china.html
https://archive.is/phiHj
In both the United States and Britain, there is suddenly a front-and-center debate about the very earliest days of the pandemic and how each country responded. Did mitigation measures imposed in the spring of 2020, amid great anxiety and uncertainty, actually work? And considering the costs, were they worth it?
In the United States, that conversation was precipitated by a Department of Energy leak about Covid-19s origins and by a flood of hearings initiated by the Republican House majority into those origins and the American response: the impacts of shelter-in-place guidance and school closures, vaccine development and mask guidance, and more. In Britain, it was precipitated by a leak of more than 100,000 ready-for-the-tabloids WhatsApp messages between Matt Hancock, the secretary of state for health and social care for the first 15 months of the pandemic, and other senior figures of the British government, including Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who at one point, misreading the number of decimal places in a fatality-rate estimate, appeared to conclude that Covid was only 1/100th as deadly as it was. If you are over 65 your risk of dying from Covid is probably as big as your risk of falling down stairs, Johnson wrote to his team in August 2020. And we dont stop older people from using stairs. What do you think?
Its telling that the British scandal centers on Hancock, who reached the highest levels of public notoriety when he was caught disobeying his own social-distancing orders to visit his aide with whom he was having an extramarital affair. Its also telling that the scandal has come about because the ghostwriter Hancock hired to help him cash in on that infamy, herself apparently a lockdown skeptic, eventually turned on him and, shortly after the books publication, sent the messages to The Daily Telegraph. Thats because, for much of the pandemic in England, the countrys leaders came under fire for incompetence to some degree but especially for their hypocrisy. (Johnsons own top adviser Dominic Cummings kept memorably comparing him to an out-of-control shopping cart, but he was forced to ultimately resign over fallout from parties held during periods of social distancing.)
By contrast, to the extent Americans vilified their leaders over the course of the pandemic, it was not primarily for hypocrisy (remember Gavin Newsoms French Laundry dinner party?) but for harshness. In Britain, the WhatsApp leak has been narrativized by the British press as a cartoon of feckless leadership. In the United States, the equivalent leak was the Twitter files, when internal company deliberations over pandemic messaging were examined by contrarian quasi-journalists deputized by Elon Musk shortly after his takeover of the company. The rhetorical emphasis was to hype public health guidance as near-totalitarian, as though those pursuing restrictions regarded severity as something like an ideological end of its own.
snip
Deuxcents
(16,193 posts)We fought an unknown virus n still dont know its origin. The only thing I can think of that was too far, was the greedy people who abused the stimulus and programs to help those who truly needed it. Thankfully, I did not get sick b/c I got my shots n boosters n to this day, still wear my mask when I feel I should. What am I missing?
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)Because it's certain it will happen again at some point, and the impulse will be to do as little as possible.
dchill
(38,474 posts)There is no other possible outcome.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)and gloves. Even if Covid stops being a thing. Always be prepared for the next thing that comes along. And toilet paper too.
Celerity
(43,333 posts)https://archive.is/uPRPH
Its been three years since the Covid-19 pandemic began, and yet many aspects of how to best respond to a novel virus remain unsettled or fiercely debated. The next currently unknown virus that could cause a pandemic what the World Health Organization calls Disease X may be different from Covid, requiring a different set of tools and a different level of response. As Dr. Tom Inglesby, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, outlines in a guest essay, public health leaders sometimes participate in simulations where they are asked to make decisions based on limited information about Disease X, as they would at the beginning of any pandemic.
We asked a group of experts to take part in a scaled-down Disease X simulation to show readers the diversity in views on how to best respond to pandemic threats quickly, with little detail, as they would likely have to in a real-world situation. We gave the experts a few parameters, and asked them to briefly address specific questions they may be asked by local leaders if such a virus were to emerge and spread in their communities. As youll see, not everyone agrees. We hope to show that experts with policy-making experience and similar goals can come to different conclusions and advise different strategies.
snip
RockRaven
(14,962 posts)But yeah, attempts to reduce transmission when there were no effective vaccines available yet were the REAL problem.
People are so fucking stupid.
Jirel
(2,018 posts)In the opinion of someone who either was a fringe kook trying to retcon their opinions into a semblance of respectability, or who had the equivalent of post-partys amnesia, maybe. In the real world of thinking adults who understood the death toll and how rapidly it spread and killed before vaccines were available, no. Really dumb concept.
JohnSJ
(92,183 posts)Great response.
Doodley
(9,088 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,283 posts)on Joe Biden. They will say it enough for half the country to remember it that way ten years from now.
Never forget, remind them every time the subject comes up, the pandemic started on Trump's watch and ended on Biden's watch.
former9thward
(31,987 posts)1706 people died last week of Covid.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home
I don't call that "ended".
Yavin4
(35,438 posts)What's killing people now is vaccine skepticism.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm
50 Shades Of Blue
(9,983 posts)milestogo
(16,829 posts)I think the precautions taken were totally appropriate. It could have been worse. Hindsight is perfect, but when a great unknown is bearing down on the whole world, I think its better to go too far than not far enough.
ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)We always have Covid patients. I just looked it up and we have 9 right now. As opposed to zero flu patients. We have all kinds of infections of course, norovirus is still going strong but Covid never goes away.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)But apparently the headline writer has.
unblock
(52,205 posts)Aside from keeping many people from getting infected at all, precautions helped keep too many people from getting infected all at once and too early, before we knew better how to treat it.
Fewer precautions would have meant more preventable deaths from hospitals being overfull or from inferior treatment before we learned more about effective critical care for Covid.
sanatanadharma
(3,701 posts)Damn the dead and full speed ahead. If Granny can't keep up, cut her loose.
God, guns and gummies*; my greed over your need.
Maddening.
*Gummies, worms-bears-cbd, representing our gluttonous consumption mindsets
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)When public health measures achieve success, why, little happens, and people wonder what was all the bother for....
kacekwl
(7,016 posts)situation. The was always doing too little and doing too much. I myself would have of course done too much. People whine way to much no matter what.
Trenzalore
(2,331 posts)In PA there was a rule you couldn't sit at a bar for a drink unless you were being served a meal and you couldn't sit directly at the bar during a point in the pandemic.
All the bars offered hot dogs and set up cocktail tables next to the bar. The rules were silly and no one knew whether they were in compliance, not even the liquor control board really understood the rules.
I understood reduced seating requirements and other measures but there were some really dumb rules and as someone who has managed people for 10+ years I know the easiest way for people to lose respect for you as a leader is to make a dumb rule that doesn't make sense.
I say this as someone who is in favor of masking in hospitals 100% of the time not just during an epidemic.
flamingdem
(39,313 posts)Overboard? I think not.
A friend just came down with it and without Paxlovid she would probably be in the hospital. This is not the flu!
KentuckyWoman
(6,679 posts)The horrid scenes coming out of other countries that were a few weeks ahead of us in body count. The fact ambulances with heart attack victims were having trouble finding an ER to go to because no beds. They were rigging up vents to work with 2 patients at the same time.
Fully HALF my friends are gone because of Covid. Either the disease itself or the challenges getting care for other illness during that time period.
Anyone who says we overreacted can go lick a raccoon dog for all I care.