Can a desk job be considered hard work?

[BlueCheeseAgain]

In a fair society, should a person who works a desk job be able to become rich?

I'm not questioning the value or worth of more physical work. Everyone in our society deserves a living wage. But is desk work inherently less worthy?

EDIT: I believe the answer is yes, of course, desk work is hard work. However, there's another thread that may be read to imply otherwise, and I was curious what other people think.

[LoisB]

1. 51 years at a desk says YES, it is hard work.

[TheBlackAdder]

20. Especially when working a high-stress job 10 hours a day, 6 days a week.

[Generic Brad]

30. You've got that right!

No way I had the stamina, effectiveness and focus back in my youth that I have now. I run circles around people half my age.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

52. yes.. decades at a desk but I appreciate the labor of people with non desk jobs

[MLAA]

2. Depending on the work can also be very stressful.

[LuckyCharms]

3. yes. n/t

[walkingman]

4. I've done both and I would say it all depends. In my case the "hard work" was an hourly wage

with overtime pay and a defined start and stop time. In the case of my "desk job" it was salary (higher wages in my case) and had no defined start or stop time - many times very long hours and no OT. The part that made it harder was the RESPONSIBILITY for hundreds of direct reports. In my case it was a major factor for my early retirement. Very stressful and not good for my health.

So I would say that NO desk work is not less worthy and actually in many cases a salary job is a corporate way of screwing you based upon hours worked.

Keep in mind that my "hard work" job was union and not so for the salary job. Also, not all "hard work" jobs are hard because of physical labor issues.

[LakeArenal]

5. Says someone who never had a desk job?

Physical labor has its own downsides but desk jobs often require investment into higher education, tend to have just as much emotional and intellectual pressure.

Just like laborious jobs, desk jobs have deadlines, personality conflicts, vindictive bosses, racist supervisors.

Many with desk jobs like law clerks do most all the work for which their employer takes the credit and the profit.

Desk jobs such as bank tellers can’t make many mistakes that cost customers money.

The fact that the majority of desk jobs are given to women or outsourced to other countries should tell you how undervalued and overworked any job can be.

[Sucha NastyWoman]

6. It can if it is very stressful

[femmedem]

7. Mine's hard. Lots of tight deadlines, lots of long hours, lots of stress.

Last edited Tue Mar 21, 2023, 07:59 PM - Edit history (1)

I get multiple stress-related migraines every month. Lots of 3:00 am anxiety attacks about how to get everything done.

I average 5 hours sleep a night and I get very little exercise, especially compared to when I had more physical jobs. And unlike more physical jobs, the work doesn't really stop once I'm home.

I work at a small nonprofit. We currently have an intern working ten hours a week but I'm usually the sole employee. My job is meaningful, often creative, and uses a lot of different skill sets. But I'm sure it's taken years off my life.

[ForgedCrank]

8. I would

say it's a matter of perspective. I've done both.
Having been on a "desk job" for over 20 years now, I can say that it is even more exhausting at times, just in a different way. There are a lot of days when I finish work and all I want is to sit in silence and stare at a blank wall, trying to get the chaos to stop and finally be able to relax for the night. The other down side of it is the absolute lack of physical exercise. So now I do 10-12 hours at a desk, then I have to go out and get physical exercise in addition to work.
It's not all bad. I don't get injuries anymore at work, and I don't come home bruised and battered, clothing destroyed and filthy, etc.
I wouldn't want to go back if I could. Besides, my age prohibits me from returning to that level of physical labor and lasting for very long. I'd probably end up on disability if that were my only option, I simply not physically capable of that kind of work anymore.

[viva la]

16. I've been trying to walk during my breaks--

Just to get some exercise. I work in a building that's one story and about 100 feet back and forth, so I have to go outside, which would be good except it's been below freezing since November.

I check my steps at the end of the day, and even with these walks, I seldom crack 5K steps.

"Sitting is the new disease," as they say.

Standing is worse, I know from a year as a grocery cashier. 20 years old and varicose veins....

[liberal N proud]

9. The stress in the office is very hard

It probably can take a greater toll on the body than physical labor.

[TexasTowelie]

10. Yes.

And as a tall male, I can also say that the other duties as assigned could be stressful beginning with reaching for anything on the top shelves. I hauled dollies of bankers boxes filled with paper, loaded and unloaded file cabinets of paper, and set up cubicle partitions. Property inventory clerk was another fun task with a lot of kneeling and bending to check serial numbers.

Later on in my career there were many 12 and 13 hour days with little time off on the weekends. So yes, I was working a desk job, but when I was coming up with 75-80 hours per week for several months in a row, I would say that the work that I did was as worthy and demanding as someone whose job was more physically oriented.

[edisdead]

11. This is ridiculous

[Skittles]

12. WTF

YOU WORK 12 HOUR NIGHT SHIFTS IN IT FOR DECADES AND TELL ME

[femmedem]

15. I think you are misunderstanding the OP.

I believe the OP agrees with you and is checking in to see if anyone else has an issue with this: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217746165

[Skittles]

42. I see it has been updated

thank you...."desk work" can be VERY hard work

mentally taxing work can be extremely stressful indeed.....

[Polybius]

48. I want a desk job so badly

Doing 15,000 steps a day stinks, I made the wrong career choice.

[viva la]

13. Well, I work at a desk, and have several physical issues with it-

Repetitive motion problems with both wrists from typing.
Back problems from my decidedly un-ergonomic chair. (Plastic.)
Neck problem from the "desk" which is just a folding table that is about 4 inches too high for me so my shoulders are pushed up.
Constant exposure to Covid and colds because I advise students and must sit very close to them.

But no worries. I only make $18 an hour, so there's no danger I'll get rich.

"Pink collar jobs" are usually quite low-paid and onerous in one way or another.

What's kind of infuriating is we have to take these semi-annual trainings on how important it is for us to stay healthy on the job, maintain a good posture, and so on... and they don't even provide a real desk and chair for any of us.

[orthoclad]

14. The nature of the proletariat is changing

in a world where data-crunching is important. There are unions of science workers.

Work is work. Management, though, is exploitation, in a profit-driven world. I think management is what many people think of as desk work.

Let's not forget, though, that the dirty, dangerous, back-breaking physical work continues. Corporations have exported much of this work to poorer countries and China, so it becomes less visible, but it still exists.

[viva la]

18. When those effete GOPERs start talking about raising the SS age to 70...

I want to ask how long they really think a waitress or a construction worker can work before their bodies just break? Not till 70. Often not to 60.

Back-breaking is the right word for it!

[orthoclad]

28. I remember when modern

Last edited Wed Mar 22, 2023, 08:51 AM - Edit history (1)

industrial society was supposed to give us more leisure time and save our bodies from damage. SF stories were warning about people becoming useless and bored ("With Folded Hands" ). Sure hasn't worked out that way. Capitalism works us til we drop. Gotta keep those profit margins up.

edit: god*&(P smilies. I hate em

[meadowlander]

17. I get sued for a living. Come try it.

Of course desk work is hard work. It also creates value which is the measure of “worthiness”. If my expertise saves my employers tens of millions a year in lawsuit payouts and reputational harm why would you say that’s not “hard work” unless I’m physically sweating while I do it?

[ForgedCrank]

39. HAHA!

I'm sorry, but that just hit me in the funny bone. "I get sued for a living".
Sounds like a living hell to be frank about it. Mainly because I can think of few things I despise more than paperwork or documentation.

[JuJuChen]

19. as i sit in my desk, "yes, why don't you get over here and help?"

lol

[Bev54]

21. My entire career was at a desk most of the time and yes it was incredibly stressful, after

I retired now I do more physical work part time for something to do and I find I enjoy it and am less tired than I was when stressed.

[panader0]

22. Hard mentally for certain. Stressful too. But not in the physical sense of lifting heavy things

and sweating your ass off in the sun.

[honest.abe]

23. I do desk work now but i did manual labor when I was younger.

There are pros and cons for sure. One thing I like about manual labor is that I didn’t really have much mental stress… but quite a bit of physical stress. But clearly as I got older the desk job is better… even with the mental stress.

[Maeve]

24. Depends on the work

But let's not pretend that folks who don't make a large salary are to blame for "not working hard enough" as a go-to explanation

[keithbvadu2]

25. I was going to mention stress, but I see it has come up already. A lot.

[karynnj]

26. You are asking the wrong question

The value of a job is not based on how hard it is physically ... nor is the pay.

Not to mention, many "desk jobs" required years of study and skills few have. The money paid to do a job is based mostly on supply and demand. Also, why implicitly complain about desk jobs? Why not ask if it is harder work to be a major league baseball player or a rock star?

[femmedem]

29. I could be wrong but I think it's in response to this:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217746165

[karynnj]

32. That.makes sense. Thank you

[BlueCheeseAgain]

33. Thank you, femmedem

It is in response to that.

I think many people like that meme because they think it's about CEOs and average workers. But to me it looks to be about office workers and more hands-on workers. I felt a little aggrieved about it.

[femmedem]

35. You're welcome.

And I did, too.

I like how you posted about it: you didn't place one type of work above another, didn't put down manual labor while trying to draw attention to desk work being real work, too. You didn't even really state an opinion so much as draw attention to a stereotype many people don't question.

[ChazII]

44. +1 n/t

[ColinC]

27. Yes it is hard work. But no desk job merits hundreds of times more pay than non desk jobs

And vice versa. The idea that certain jobs or groups are inherently more valuable than others and thus certain groups are deserving of little pay or poor treatment, is a trash idea.

[ForgedCrank]

41. It doesn't

have anything to do with how much labor is involved when we are talking about pay.
It has to do with how scarce the skill is. Mopping floors, for example, is ass busting, back breaking work that most often goes unappreciated. But pretty much anyone can do it, so the labor pool is huge and the pay isn't all that great as a result.
I'll agree that it sucks living on small wages, I did it for years. But as skill level rises and the pool of people who can do the task shrinks, that wages go up accordingly. It's not a trash idea at all, that's just how it works

[ColinC]

43. Raise the floor and lower the ceiling, everybody benefits

[ForgedCrank]

45. How do

you propose we accomplish that?
And have you thought about the consequences of forcing some sort of flat wage scale such as the one you suggest?

[ColinC]

49. Said nothing about a flat wage scale

A higher minimum wage and some type of maximum wage is all that is needed. This was accomplished in the 50s and 60s with a 90% highest marginal tax rate (that effectively capped off the highest earners providing the remainder of their earnings to government revenue) and living wages brought up by heavy union membership.

[orthoclad]

31. CEOs don't "work"

and they get paid millions. At desks and boardroom tables. At golf courses and private clubs. And don't forget the liquid lunches.

The "getting rich" part is what's confusing here.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

34. I see what you mean.

I tend to think of rich as maybe top 10% in income or assets. Not CEO or executive level.

[WarGamer]

36. Of course...

Desk work can be as rewarding or unrewarding as anything else.

Top stock traders make millions behind a desk.

Is anyone saying that 8 hours of flipping burgers is "harder" than managing the investment portfolios of 1000 retired folks?

Frankly, 8 hours of mindless physical work is infinitely easier than a desk job in the pressure cooker.

[yonder]

37. Yes, they absolutely can be hard work.

Endorphin rewards from physical labor can sometime mitigate job-related stress and pressure.

[betsuni]

38. That working class revolution thing, desks and not sweating makes one a wealthy elitist incapable

of understanding economic inequality. The enemy who showers at the beginning of the day, probably with a swanky organic body wash smelling of exotic endangered fruits.

Used like this: "For too long the Democratic Party has been dominated by wealthy campaign contributors. They gotta open the door to people who work with their hands, who take showers at the end of the day, not the beginning of the day."

[newdayneeded]

40. I'm in engineering. it's been a lifetime

of stress from rushed need dates.

[Tribetime]

46. I've done both and physical labor and mental stress are challenging

[Xolodno]

47. The office politics alone can drive you crazy.

Then tight deadlines, data not being available, etc. There our days where I literally just didn't want to think and just play mindless game.

[nolabear]

50. Absolutely, and especially now.

Pandemic work-from-home applies to desk jobs. The parameters go away. My husband works some CRAZY hours that he never would have been asked to before. And there’s a wide variety to “desk job,” from Zoom teaching to management to administration to…

But “hard” means a lot of things too.

[Kennah]

51. One has to babysit morons in Management who don't have a clue about the work