When it comes down to it, how many people want to go to war against the U.S. Government?

[Tom Rinaldo]

Trump's big bluff is finally being called. The most potent force extremists wield is intimidation. Most people abhor violence, and go to great lengths to avoid it. Faced with a potential serious threat, appeasement is not uncommon as a response. The bigger the threat brandished, the bigger the capitulation demanded to in order to withdraw it. "The Rule of Law?" Sounds nice in the abstract, but is pressing a charge of business fraud, really worth triggering off deadly riots in our streets? Intimidation worked for Trump, until last week.

America has seen deadly riots before. Lynch mobs were common deadly riots. Cell blocks have gone up in flames in deadly prison riots. Inner cities have been convulsed by deadly riots due to racial injustice. Riots are serious. Deaths from them are serious. But even America's deadliest riots fail to equal the carnage from one days fighting in Ukraine last week. What can bring down America is not militant extremists engaging in violence. What can bring down America is our democratic institutions failing to hold.

Seriously. Literally. How many Americans are willing to engage in full scale armed combat against the U.S. Army and the National Guard? Hundreds maybe. Possibly thousands. Sure, many more than that say they are willing to fight the government. They run around in the woods in camouflage with guns, but how many of them are actually willing to go hand to hand with the infantry?

I'm not saying all right wing extremists are cowards, but the ones who literally are suicidal pursue death by cops individually. The strategy of the extreme right has always been to light the match that somehow sparks the coming "great conflict"that will finally purify America for the Christian Nationalist Right At most they engage in sneak attacks and isolated acts of terror. But there are never plans for a coordinated armed assault on State Capitals. There are never plans to physically occupy Washington and install a new government.

They had the then President of the United States on their side, and security forces that failed to take them seriously, on January 6, 2021. The far right was counting on inside help that day, on a declaration of martial law, on the National Guard protecting them and on presidential pardons for any and all of their transgressions. They weren't up for war with the U.S. Army. They know they would be crushed if it ever came to that, and most of their supporters would dissolve back into "normal" civilian life, hoping not to come to "the attention of authorities."

If blood starts to flow the Right has already lost. When the threats they make lead to their own loss of liberty, the Right is routed. Trump is facing the consequences now of his bluff finally being called. Yes we may still face some civil unrest, but a functioning democracy can deal with that if our institutions continue to function the way they were designed.

[Lovie777]

1. Insaneville is part of shithole's cult..............................

I would not put it pass them. Putin, NK, China and others would help.

[zipplewrath]

2. Ron DiSantis

He wants the government of Florida to go up against Disney. Disney has more lawyers than Florida such that DeSantis has to hire old buddies and their law firms. But Disney has much smarter lawyers and it could be years, if not a decade, before it ever gets before a judge or jury. DeSantis will be long gone before this ever gets adjudicated and in and honest court, DeSantis will lose.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

3. Some idiots will take action, but most magats fear a "J6 trap"

They have been lied to so much and lie to themselves, that they really think people got arrested on J6 for simple basic ordinary presence at a demonstration, peacefully protesting.

So they fear arrest at ANY simple basic protest.

But there will be idiots who will use their guns somewhere, some time, on Tuesday or after. Have courage. Be resolute.

Be confident. This is the beginning of the end of the rump.

[localroger]

8. At J6 the hardcore were depending on the mass of dipshits to provide cover

And it largely worked. But it won't work again, because would-be dipshits now know that they could be found and prosecuted for their dipshittery. The hardcore assholes don't care about that but the dipshits do, and without the dipshits to provide a mass of people for them to blend into the hardcore assholes can't effect their strategy.

[yardwork]

17. A lot of J6ers thought Trump would protect them.

It was all fun and games, answering the president's call, but then he didn't show up. Trump wasn't there with them, they didn't succeed in "restoring" him to office, and now they're being convicted and jailed. He hasn't helped a single one of them. He didn't pardon a single one of them.

They may talk big on their keyboards but I don't see a lot of folks taking buses to join the next riot. Deep inside they know they got conned.

[bucolic_frolic]

4. The Right is afraid of drag shows

and everything else. They think turning America into an armed camp will protect them.

[pwb]

5. People who have dropped out and blame society

for their mistakes. But there is not enough of them to worry about. IMO. They would all be killed real fast if they pick that fight.

[orthoclad]

6. Wrong question

We're already seeing asymmetric aka guerilla warfare, in the form of power station attacks. And don't forget the bois in 2020 who sniped cops, trying to stir up conflict during the Floyd upheaval.

I saw a website printed in a Nazi-looking font celebrating "asymmetric warfare" after the NC power station attack. They've been practicing for years. Don't forget the plot to take out the power in a majority black city (Baltimore) a few months ago.

They won't go for confrontation unless they have overwhelming odds, as they did on J6. The odds then were a ombination of their numbers and the gelding of response - DoD nto answering the phone, Nat Guard disarmed, etc. Also don't forget that some in the Captol Police collaborated with the insurrection. I saw video of Cap cops opening barricades and waving the mob in. J6 was a one-off thing; the organizers will avoid confrontation now.

[Tom Rinaldo]

11. Yes, that is the standard playbook

"Lucking" into getting an actual fascist as president scrambled their signal calling and upended their classic strategy. It emboldened them to organize more openly and gave them hope that a more frontal attack might actually work. And it might have, if our legal system shirked away from holding anyone accountable. J6 was as favorable a set of conditions as they were ever likely to get for directly assaulting our government.

But their normal playbook backfires on them also when someone makes too radical a move, like the Oklahoma City bombing which set back rather than advanced their "revolution." The same would happen, I think, if they ever succeed at blacking out a major population center in a way that can be traced back to them.

J6

[yardwork]

15. Absolutely. The community in NC that lost power was furious.

Nobody claimed responsibility. The local yapping about revolution got real quiet. People were pissed off.

[orthoclad]

18. They stopped the drag show, tho.

As I recall, the NC sheriff held a prayer meeting with a primary suspect and declared her innocent.

Infiltration of armed authority is a problem.

[yardwork]

20. Yes, that's where the danger lies. The paramilitary and military.

That's why protecting Alvin Bragg and fighting back against the Republican attacks on him and his office is so important.

[orthoclad]

16. They also have insurrectonists holding power in Congress

and the Supreme Court to give them cover. Distract over drag shows, subpoena and harass the opposition, then the Court will free the leaders on appeal.

A large portion of the J6ers are already out of jail and being celebrities.

[Tom Rinaldo]

19. Friday was a major setback for them

Yes they will raise money off of Trump's indictment and make a lot of noise. There may even be scattered violence, but on Friday they failed to intimidate the legal system from pressing criminal charges against Trump, and if Trump can be held accountable for his crimes, anyone can. That is now set in motion, it is no longer hypothetical. If they fail to disrupt the trial, and they will fail if they try, that exposes their inability to dictate events. If they fail at protecting their leader, there is no one who can reliably protect them from future consequences for their actions..

[IbogaProject]

7. Until enough in The military switch

Last edited Sat Apr 1, 2023, 10:03 PM - Edit history (1)

That is how it usually happens, I hope our military training really programs against that. Our military was instrumental is carefully deflecting the worst that could have happened J6.

[wnylib]

21. True. With enough converts in the military

the fascists could succeed where J6 failed.

[Groundhawg]

9. people talk big, but not many willing to back it up.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

12. MAGA People Twitter bigly, protest smelly.

[MenloParque]

10. It's a lot easier to take out the bootlickers and gubermint compliers

These fantasy role player nutters have no intentions on going to war with the US Government. They are going to try to take out the Leftists and those who are different from them first. I posed this question to an Engineer colleague who builds rifles and trains in the desert on the weekends. He said they don’t plan on fighting the government, they plan on fighting people like me. Just great!!

[yardwork]

14. They've been saying this for decades. It's their little fantasy hobby.

[yardwork]

13. Many of us on DU remember the calls for revolution in the 1960s and 70s

It didn't happen. Even in the midst of an unpopular war with a draft, there was no revolution. Instead, Nixon resigned, Ford pardoned him, Jimmy Carter was elected and hamstrung at every turn, and the Republicans committed treason and put a puppet in the White House.

All the riots and protests led to victory by the opposing party. The American people did not join the socialist revolution. Instead, they turned more to the right. Backlash.

Now it's the Republicans who look radical. This will end one of two ways. (1) There will be a corrective turn to the left by the American people, with a repudiation of right-wing extremism, or (2) there will be a military coup directed by right-wing billionaires, loss of our democracy, and installation of an authoritarian regime that looks like Gilead in The Handmaid's Tale.

In neither case will millions of Americans fight the government.

[peggysue2]

22. What gives me a sense of hope?

Is that the younger generations (who have been traditionally criticized for lack of political participation) are coming to the fore. They represent the most diverse generation in the country's history and they don't buy the right-wing bigotry, the refusal to consider gun control, the recent nullification of women's reproductive rights, the ongoing disaster of Climate Change, the imposition of Christian fundamentalism on everyone, etc., etc., etc.

Gen Z alone is 68+ million people, voices, votes. There's more participation every year as more come of age bc they know their futures are at risk. They're well educated, aware, more racially diverse and more socially liberal than older demographic groupings.

The Republicans are losing an entire generation with their illiberal pursuits. They know it and are frantically trying to disenfranchise younger voters.

The Democratic Party lost a generation to Reagan's Shiny City on a Hill mantra, his effective (if false) ads proclaiming It's Morning Again in America. It was upbeat, hopeful and young voters bought into it.

What does Donald Trump and his army of true, willfully blind supporters have? American carnage, a dystopian vision of Christian fundamentalism romping across the land, a disrespect for the lives of women, people of color and anyone who doesn't fit into a tidy pigeon hole when it comes to sexuality, and a profound distaste for democracy.

Those of us who are older, trying to hold the line during this political maelstrom are not alone. We have fresh recruits coming along. We need to do everything we can to engage them to join the fight.

For everyone's future.

[Tom Rinaldo]

23. THIS

Thanks!

[peggysue2]

30. Thanks back, Tom

[Runningdawg]

24. They have learned there is no safety in a group. Change of tactics coming.

Look for more lone wolf attacks on infrastructure and for them to poison street drugs. One RW forum even suggested burning down food pantries, homeless shelters and camps. We are dealing with a level of crazy, not seen in this country, since the witch trials.

[Tom Rinaldo]

25. Intimidation is their most effective tactic. The threat of violence, not violence itself

An occasional lone wolf terror attack, preferably with no more than one victim, keeps them fired up, which serves a purpose of sorts for them. Plus it sends a message to others who they want to intimidate without backfiring on their entire movement. But when terror attacks become substantive enough to really rattle people, it triggers a backlash against the extremists and a crack down on them. Suddenly elected Republicans become squeamish about associating with them, and some of those too in bed with them actually lose their seats. The pendulum in America swings against those who carry out violence too explicitly.

The extremist right is at maximum effectiveness threatening and harassing key low level officials without actually physically harming them. If they can keep sane people from helping run elections because it isn't worth all of the stress, that's a win for them. Same thing with school boards etc. But the problem the extreme right has is that it is extreme. Sooner or later they go too far and do something most people find to be repulsive, and then they are stripped of their phony "patriot" veneer and seen as a threat that can't be tolerated.

[Runningdawg]

27. Looks like you paraphrased my husband's speech to me, the first week of Jan 2021.

[Tom Rinaldo]

28. Ha. Well, I'm not saying some of them aren't crazy enough to do some of what you wrote

You are right, the crazies are intoxicated and there is a mob psychosis building. It's pretty damn frightening. Some people are unhinged enough to go off that cliff, and they probably will, but when they do they I don't think they'll get the response they were hoping for. To the contrary.

[crickets]

26. K&R for the post and the discussion.

[Midnight Writer]

29. The "war against the government" is a covert one, and the weapons are money, lobbyists, and lawyers.