Students Are Refusing to Pay Back Their Loans When Payment Pause Ends

[AntivaxHunters]

Good.
Student loans shouldn't exist. Period.
Being against this is not a winning strategy for us. Young voters are now the largest voting bloc.

[link:https://www.newsweek.com/students-refusing-pay-loans-payment-pause-ends-1804273|]

Some college graduates are suggesting there should be a general boycott on repaying student loans, once the current federal loan payment pause ends in the summer.

The debt ceiling deal agreed between President Biden and Speaker Kevin McCarthy says the pause, initially introduced as a temporary measure during the coronavirus pandemic, will "cease to be effective" from 60 days after June 30.

Student loans have emerged as a highly charged political issue in recent years. On Thursday the Senate backed a House resolution that would cancel Biden's student loan forgiveness plan, which would wipe $10,000 from the debt of most borrowers, and up to $20,000 for graduates who received Pell Grants. The president has pledged to veto this bill, which he described as "an unprecedented attempt to undercut our historic economic recovery." The Supreme Court is expected to rule on Biden's plan in late June or early July.

Link to tweet

?s=20

Link to tweet

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[walkingman]

1. This will not end well.

[calguy]

2. You'd think that college graduates would know...

how the credit system works. Don't pay your bills, you no longer have credit.
I understand the burden of student loan debt, but no one put a gun to their head forcing them to take on that debt.
Refusing to pay it back is simply a stupid move, with harsh financial penalties down the road when they want to buy a house or a new car.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

4. Also something they should know ...

https://www.bankrate.com/loans/student-loans/student-loan-wage-garnishment/

Garnishment is used to try to get student loans paid back. With federal student loans, wage garnishment can take place without your servicer taking you to court. However, most states require loan holders to obtain a court order to garnish your wages if you default on private student loans.

With federal student loans, wage garnishment can continue until your loan balances plus interest and fees are paid back, but it can also end if your loan is removed from default. The U.S. Department of Education has stalled wage garnishment on all defaulted federal loans through the payment pause, which is currently set to expire no later than 60 days after June 30, 2023. Plus, all federal loans will be returned to good standing status once payments resume.

How much can be garnished for student loans?

Generally, loan holders can garnish up to 15 percent of your disposable pay to repay federal student loans and up to 25 percent to repay private student loans.

These are aggregate limits. That is, if you default on multiple loans held by multiple companies, the garnishments they place on your income cannot add up to more than the limit.

[2naSalit]

8. +1

[JanMichael]

14. How does this work in the "gig" economy?

I would think garnishment would be harder to manage. Maybe not though.

[BlackSkimmer]

114. Eventually their social security will be garnished.

There's no way to get way from this.

[ck4829]

124. Landed on the moon, fought the British, a civil rights movement, and now...

"There's no way"

Just give up, just roll over and take it.

I wonder how long a free country is sustainable with that kind of mindset.

[inthewind21]

153. WOW

So should all the people with CC debt or mortgages or auto loans just stop paying those too?

[AntivaxHunters]

6. I think you're forgetting

They aren't able to buy anything when they're strapped with student loan debt payments anyhow. It's a double negative & they're out of fucks left to give.

[2naSalit]

9. You can't get a loan if you have student loan debt.

[roamer65]

98. Especially when it's in default.

[calguy]

11. I feel for them, I really do

but I reiterate my point that no one pointed a gun to their head and forced them to take on that debt.

When you take on debt, you're required to pay it back. Period.

[OneGrassRoot]

16. Unless you're wealthy. n/t

[enki23]

24. That's not true at all.

I'll be sympathetic to that BS when failed businesses saddle their failed owners for the rest of their fucking lives as well

[NYC Liberal]

31. Saying "nobody forced them to" is a little disingenuous when

almost the entirety of society, including their parents, family, teachers, and the media, drummed it into people's heads throughout their early lives that they HAD to go to college if they wanted any kind of a decent life. That not going to college would mean working a minimum wage job flipping burgers for the rest of their lives.

Sure, nobody physically forced them to. But you can't act like millions of people took out loans to go to college for fun or just on a whim.

[calguy]

33. They should have been taught to take responsibility for their own actions

[NYC Liberal]

35. Maybe. But that's a failure of society.

Society told teenagers if they didn't go to college their lives would be ruined. Drummed it into their heads for years. Told them, if you can't afford it, just take out a loan. We can't turn around now and say "Hey, you shouldn't have gone to college"

[MichMan]

36. When they took out the loans, did society tell them they didn't have to pay it back?

[treestar]

160. no but it did say the degree would

get you a job that would pay for them, and assumed no pandemics.

[MichMan]

168. If there was only a resource that would allow people to research salaries etc.

Maybe something called the internet..... ?

[treestar]

170. Can't predict everything

And why doesn't the bank do anything to make sure of that, too? They take a risk lending out money - why are they so willing to do it with no security other than a person's unknown future possible job?

[MichMan]

176. Be careful what you ask for

Student loans will only be issued to those that a) chose the "correct" majors, b) have good enough grades to show they have a strong likelihood of eventually graduating, and c) have a high credit score.

"Your dream major is education, journalism, or social work? Sorry, we only lend to those in STEM, Nursing, and Business majors. No money for you!"

Also, no changing majors once enrolled without getting permission first or the entire loan becomes due. Find out that the major you chose isn't  what you want to do for your entire career? Too bad.

"We think loaning money to someone from a lower income background with a 2.8 GPA is too risky, so no money for you either. You should consider learning a trade instead"


You do know that student loans have been issued directly by the Federal government for the last dozen years, and not from banks, right?

[treestar]

185. No don't know as much as that

it's been a long time.

The Federal government issues loans directly from taxpayer money?

Anyway, to lend money means you think it can be paid back. With interest.

Surely there were better solutions.

And a major that is not going to lead to a good job would have to be more risky to the lender. How is it unfair to be pickier than just - oh you are going to college, so you will be sure to get a job that pays enough for you to pay this loan back?

[TexasBushwhacker]

182. It depends on what their degree was in

My degree was in Biology & Psychology. I also got my teacher's certificate. With only a Bachelor's degree in 1981, the only other job I would been able to get would be in a lab, looking at stool samples. If you're going to take on considerable student loans, you had better be on a career path that will pay for them. You can also go to a state supported college or even community college to save money.

Just because you can get approved for a loan, any loan, doesn't mean you have to take one out. My bank constantly sends me notices that I'm pre-approved for a car loan of $35K. I make less than $60K GROSS! When I needed to buy a newer car in 2020, my budget was $20K and I stuck to it.

[treestar]

186. Yes, I think the solution will be

community colleges. There is demand for a product, and if the demand goes down, the prices to down.

If colleges are going to charge that much, maybe the market for the "product" will lower the price when enough people decide they just can't afford it and seek other alternatives.

There's this mythos about a college education that no longer applies - it seems it does not guarantee such a high paying job that borrower can easily pay them off.

I didn't have a hard time with them, but they weren't that much back in my day (seems similar to yours as to date of graduation).

[TexasBushwhacker]

189. Not to mention, if you want to study liberal or fine arts ....

If you want to be a writer, you can go to college, go through a graduate writing program, etc, or you could just WRITE.

If you want to be an artist, by all means, create art. But art school isn't a requirement to be a great artist.

I think community colleges are a great way to knock out your first 2 years of required courses at a low cost.

[betsuni]

191. Used to be if you wanted to be a journalist, writer, chef, business person, artist, actor, film

director, etc., you learned by doing it. Then (started in the '80s) people thought they had to go to journalism school, business school, culinary school, film school, get a creative writing graduate degree, get some kind of degree.

Anthony Bourdain advised people not to go to culinary school if they have to take out loans. If you can afford it, fine. If not, think: you'll be working in a profession with very low wages or working in famous restaurants for nothing, and like anything else, very few people become rich and famous. How are you going to repay those loans? (Saw a rom-com yesterday about a chef and her sous-chef, who said he's from a working class family and didn't go to culinary school, which the chef was snobby about even though both of them learned to cook from mothers and grandmothers -- then we see he lives in an enormous loft full of art -- oh come on!)

[AntivaxHunters]

57. This is for you

[calguy]

64. Ridiculous comparison. Get real.

[MerryBlooms]

103. That is a really awful comic and comparison.

I lost my husband, and oldest brother to cancer in 2002, 5 months apart. Every person that beats that truly evil shit, is my Hero. My oldest sister who I care for, she's almost 80, beat breast cancer, but it took years. If any cancer patient woke up tomorrow, and there was a cure that would save millions of people, they would celebrate! And, so would the people who love them!

That comic, or whatever you want to call it, is repulsive and has Zero comparison to our loved ones who have fought, won, or lost against cancer. No, you don't meet with a hospice nurse daily, because of a student loan. I was a widow in my late thirties, my sons were fatherless in high school. My husband didn't get to see his sons graduate. If in the next week, someone would have come up with a hope to treat ocular melanoma, other than removing the eye, there's no chemo, radiation... I would have been contacting his doctor, reminding him, my husband was an organ donor. Do you realize, how desperate we cancer families are?

Cancer survivors are not even close to as petty as your portrayal. Disgusting. I can't believe you posted disparaging cancer survivors like that. I'm not often too angry to cry. Congrats. You win.

[betsuni]

116. Nobody chooses cancer, nobody wishes it on anyone else. This is disgusting.

That comic is not about student loans. Student loans are about borrowed money. Cancer isn't. WTF. Disgusting.

[Shrek]

120. Delete this n/t

[inthewind21]

154. Are

you fucking kidding me! You dare compare those with cancer to a fucking student loan! Speaks VOLUMES about you.

[Mariana]

69. By their parents?

Often it's their parents harassing them to take out the loans in the first place.

[calguy]

71. What ever the reason might be

they took out the loans, and PROMISED to pay it back. Period. End of Story.
Don't ask me, a taxpayer, to pay off their debt for them.

[OneGrassRoot]

80. We taxpayers are saddled with paying...

for many things we personally disagree with. There’s something about this issue that really brings out the grouch in a certain population. Your other posts here indicate you may have a general bias against the younger generation.

Consider that, with regard to student loans, there are many people over 55 who have been paying on loans for many, many years. It doesn’t only impact young people.

And the difference between the mortgage and car loan analogy is 1) when life happens and you can no longer pay your debt, student loans can’t be discharged in bankruptcy and 2) the vast majority of time when you’re paying a mortgage and a car payment you have shelter and transportation. All too often the education one receives doesn’t result in an income at all, let alone a higher income, because in our rapidly changing world, no career is exempt from disaster. That’s a relatively recent development given how rapidly everything changes now.

[MichMan]

106. There is another difference between mortgage and car loans vs student loans you failed to mention

The car gets repossessed and the house gets foreclosed. You don't get to declare bankruptcy and still keep both of them free and clear.

Would people discharging student loan debt with personal bankruptcy be willing to forego all college credits and degrees as if they never attended at all? That way, those who dropped out & didn't graduate, or felt their degrees were useless, could get a fresh start, while those who got the advantage of attending college with a decent career couldn't foist them off on taxpayers.

That scenario might garner a lot more support from people than allowing a recent 24 year old Law School graduate being able to declare bankruptcy and discharge all his debt and then later taking a high paying position at a prestigious law firm.

[OneGrassRoot]

125. Interesting...

I do believe some would agree with foregoing credits and degrees. I certainly would for the Parent Plus I’m paying for as that degree didn’t help my daughter and she ended up having to get another degree (for which she is now paying).

Bankruptcy sucks (I know) so it would be nice to have more options than that but at present there are no options. And for Parent Plus loans there REALLY are no options. I’ll be paying on it until I die unless our situation changes drastically.

[liberal_mama]

135. It should be an option to give back your degree & have student loans discharged

I think that would be a fair solution for a lot of people. It's crazy that you can't discharge student loans in bankruptcy like other debts.

[Zeitghost]

152. That's the only way that lenders will loan to them

If student loans could be discharged, there would be no student loans. No lender is going to offer someone with zero credit, little to no income and no collateral tens of thousands of dollars in unsecured debt than can be easily dumped at graduation through bankruptcy.

[calguy]

167. Exactly.

It's the other side of the equation, the side of the coin that gave them these loans in the first place. This inconvenient fact somehow gets ignored by those who advocate for loan forgiveness.

[Celerity]

130. Plus many firms requiring at least a bachelors, if not higher, even if the degree is not germane to

the actual duties of the placement itself.

I saw an advert (classmate showed me) whilst I was in Los Angeles reading for my MBA a few years back, that required a bachelors (and had the temerity to state that a masters was preferred) for an entry level, PART TIME receptionist job (called and confirmed, it was a basic 'sit at the front desk, meet and greet the clients' gig for some insurance firm in Orange County).

[OneGrassRoot]

133. Exactly. I think it's how companies weed people out.

And that's a basic requirement, right along with being a legal resident.

[Celerity]

137. In the example I gave, it is just bad logic, as a person with a degree (especially if post grad) is

almost never going to stay at a receptionist job (especially part time) for long.

[AntivaxHunters]

48. This is a bad take

Like really bad.

I urge you to read this. It's long but holy crap it's good.

[OneGrassRoot]

81. THIS. n/t

[brooklynite]

141. False statement...

"Are you aware that higher education in America used to be free until the mid 1960s"

Absolutely false. SOME public colleges were free, but never in a significant enough number to accommodate the entire college-age population.

[betsuni]

150. Higher education wasn't free.

[grantcart]

155. Student Loan "Forgiveness" Does not involve forgiveness

It is about transferring private debt to public debt.

It means that people who didn't borrow for college will now be responsible for part of the debt.

Blue collar workers who never went to college now have a share as part of the national debt. We decided that my wife would clean homes for extra income so our kids would not have any college debt, now other people's private debt is added to public debt which we all have a share of.

Obama's targeted approach to forgive debt in lieu of service was equitable and fulfilled a public purpose. Mass elimination of college debt simply allows some people who benefited from acquiring an asset to avoid paying for it and transfer it to others who didn't benefit from the experience.

[ForgedCrank]

59. I'd like

to weigh in on this one if you don't mind, just to add to that.
I consider the primary blame for sky-high education expenses to be the student loans themselves.
The colleges use the student loan system in a predatory manner. They know 18 year-old kids don't think a lot about life 10-15 years down the road, and signing on the line for a loan they continually tell you "you don't have to pay anything until you graduate" is just too dang easy. And because of this endless supply of cash with practically no limits, the colleges can then charge pretty much whatever they want and no one bats an eye. Well, not until the payments come due.
I do find it outrageous that I now have to pay for those loans that were voluntarily taken with the PROMISE to pay it back by the original borrower. In fact, I consider it borderline criminal.
A lot of us busted our asses and suffered greatly over many years paying off our loans and fulfilling our promise, and keeping our word. To think that now I have to contribute to settling the same debt for people I've never know because they won't keep their word is infuriating.

[calguy]

65. My feelings exactly

[GoodRaisin]

62. I kind of felt forced. Gun to head, no, but

I was under the impression it would be difficult to earn a living wage and take care of a family without a college degree, and couldn’t pay all the cost without borrowing some of the money. Fortunately I had GI bill money that helped pay enough of the cost that I was able to pay back my loans. It would have been much more difficult without the GI bill money to repay my debts and eek out a budget at the same time.

Hasn’t this kind of been the way for the kids that wanted to go to college who didn’t have wealthy parents?

There needs to be equal opportunity for everyone to prepare for a working career without having to go deep in debt before they even start working. I can understand the resistance.

[Mariana]

68. Plenty of parents manipulate their kids into taking out these loans.

Then the school guidance counselor chimes in, and the grandparents and other relatives, and so on and so on.

[treestar]

172. My parents just did it for me

and I signed whatever. I did not even realize they existed during undergrad school. Fortunately it was long ago, and they didn't amount to much, even for law school.

Being a girl, I don't think they even cared about how much I made - it was like part of their financial plan - the loans were low interest. So they might have paid them off had I not been able to. The interest was quite low, as I recall. It was a federal program. And of course tuition was nothing near what it is now.

Still I was 20 and too dumb to even worry about them. Most of us don't become suddenly wise at 18 or even 21.

[Mariana]

66. In many cases, their parents pressured or coerced them to do so.

I've seen it happen, especially if the kid got accepted into a ridiculously expensive prestigious private school that the parent's can't begin to afford, but they want to brag that their kid goes to XYZ University.

[calguy]

72. My daughter was accepted to a prestigious school we couldn't begin to afford

Guess what? She didn't go to that school.

[RandomNumbers]

136. I would agree with you, but with a big exception

Back when I took out student loans (since completely repaid, on time, no issues), I was given guidance and used some combo of state and federal programs that gave me a low interest rate. Something like 1.5% as long as I was never late. I screwed up and was late on one payment and my interest rate "spiked" to the horrible 2.25%. Or something like that. The payment plan was like 20 years and could be deferred for various reasons like military service, continued full time student status.

If everyone's experience was like mine, it would be hard to have too much sympathy.

For many of today's student loan borrowers, apparently there was a period where a lot of scamming and soaking was going on. Kids not knowing any better getting soaked with high interest loans and unfriendly terms. (I guess I heard about this on NPR.) What is most aggravating to me is that the financial institutions / scammers were able to do this nonsense. But hey, people keep voting for people who hate government, so I guess we can't have government oversight to stop the scammers.

[calguy]

139. Good points

I'm all for making it easier to pay back the loans. Low interest and refinancing options seem the most obvious.
It's the outright demand that those loans should be forgiven that I'm so vehemently opposed to. I think the vast majority of voters feel the same way I do.

[RandomNumbers]

140. Yep

And I think the reason Biden gives in on this point is that he KNOWS that most voters agree with this.

[OneGrassRoot]

17. Yep. They're more aware...

of how stuff works in other wealthy countries and aren’t brainwashed by the vicious brand of capitalism in place here. They’re impacted by it, for sure, but not disillusioned to think it’s the way things must always be. The only ones who are cheerleaders for our voracious, vicious and all-consuming capitalism are those who are wealthy.

[calguy]

20. I'm not a cheerleader for the current system

but I am a cheerleader for responsibility for your own actions.
It's a slap in the face for those who've struggled to put their kids through college and for those who've paid off their student debt to see a generation of graduates now demanding to be forgiven from their debt responsibility.

[enki23]

27. I'm a cheerleader for the responsibility of failed business owners

Just as soon as they are personally liable for their lives, with no real possibility of discharge.

[calguy]

30. Owners of failed businesses take a huge beating

[enki23]

45. Sure they do. Liable for their bad debt till they die. Pull the other one

[Autumn]

52. .

[Celerity]

54. +100

[OneGrassRoot]

28. Sounds so familiar. n/t

[womanofthehills]

109. College was way way cheaper when most of us were in school

I went to Parsons School of Design - cost $1000 a yr.

Now - out of state cost $51,000 a year plus $ 2500 for supplies plus an apartment. Only rich kids can go to that school now unless you can get a grant or a huge loan.

Then I went to college in NM - I could work part time to pay my tuition. Now it’s $11,000 resident & 34,000 non resident. My friend just got her masters and she has over $30 thousand in student loans. She filled out all the forms to get $10,00 0 off her loans & is extremely upset that something she was excited about happening- just fizzled.

[calguy]

126. Thirty thousand for her student loans is like

an average five or six year car loan

[OneGrassRoot]

145. Ya know...

another reason this car loan comparison doesn't work is because you have to prove income to get a car. If you don't make enough, you can't get it unless you can pay cash which is a moot point to this discussion.

If I have to spell out why student loans are so different from other types of loans, it's a hopeless case as far as a rational conversation anyway.

I get that you are vehemently against forgiveness and are more amenable to other ways to try to ease the burden skyrocketing education costs which aren't reliably met with real-world employment results have created.

But these blanket examples of trying to convey "a loan is a loan, a promise is a promise, take responsibility" blah, blah, blah, just isn't accurate or even helpful in the discussion. It's distraction and diversion.

[calguy]

146. When you get enough young people to the polls consistently, for EVERY election

You'll have a chance to get your way. Republicans are mostly responsible for the system you think has screwed you, and young people in recent past elections were missing in action at the voting booth. So in a big, collective way, younger people were complicit in their own demise.

[OneGrassRoot]

147. Youth turnout was historically high...

in both 2020 and 2022. Not sure why you keep harping on this.

"Republicans are mostly responsible for the system you think has screwed you"

You THINK has screwed you.

Okay, goodbye and good luck. The more you talk, the more I'm suspicious of your intentions.

[calguy]

148. Where was the youth vote in 2010?

That's where we lost the Democratic Congress. 2020 and 2022 were great turnouts. Keep it up, and you'll claim the future you want, and is rightfully yours.

[OneGrassRoot]

149. FYI: I'm old. lol. n/t

[calguy]

151. Got it. That's where the youth vote was in 2010

Great answer. lol. nt.

[treestar]

161. that makes me think it is odd that banks

are willing to lend out more on a loan with no security - banks clearly determined that the education would get them a job to pay off the loan - or they would not risk it. Almost like they put more stock in that possibility than they do in having security like a car.

A lender takes a risk too. And these banks did not think too much of that risk. Maybe because the federal government has guarantees? The banks can take responsibility for their actions too. If they loan out money to someone who won't have an income for at least 4 years, that sounds a bit irresponsible on their part.

[OneGrassRoot]

169. Good points. n/t

[BlueCheeseAgain]

178. I assume that's one reason student loans tend to have higher interest rates.

They're riskier for lenders, given that there's no collateral involved.

[MichMan]

180. The Federal government took over directly issuing student loans in 2010 as part of the ACA

Banks have not been the ones making student loans for the last dozen years.

Congress set the interest rates when it was passed in 2010.

[Zeitghost]

183. Lenders only make student loans

Because they are guaranteed and can not be discharged. Their actions are not irresponsible, they are incentivized by government policy.

[treestar]

184. Guaranteed by who?

The U.S.? That means the taxpayers.

Not being dischargeable is good but then they still can't get blood out of a stone. So in their own interests, how do they justify lending? For everything else, the person needs a credit history. Maybe the parents are still liable, as their assets seem to be taken into account.

We already use debt to buy houses and cars. Extending that to college seemed to be a dumb move. The college prices could go down if there was no demand because nobody in the middle class could afford it.

[Zeitghost]

187. They will squeeze the stone for every last drop

Most people who took out college loans have careers and they will garnish your wages and even your retirement until you die or they are paid off.

The increase in availability of student loans is directly responsible for the drastic increases in tuition we have seen. They have increased the ability of many to seek higher education (including my wife and I), but that has come at a cost.

It was always the inevitable outcome. When you flood the market for any product with easy, guaranteed financing, prices go up. If the government decided to subsidize car loans and make them impossible to discharge, you would see everybody driving a new car they couldn't afford, the prices for new cars would double and 10-15 years down the line you would have people still paying off cars that don't run anymore.

[NotVeryImportant]

156. "It's a slap in the face for those who've struggled..."

This is where the analogy of cancer comes into play.

It's quite apropos.

And please spare me the poutrage BS about "how dare you compare the two?!?"

You're not the only one who suffered from cancer in some form of fashion.

[inthewind21]

173. I'll

spare you NOTHING. It's not even close

[hippywife]

43. Do some research on the topic...

of how student loan debt evolved, then get back to us. Your viewpoint is so on point with right wing talking points on the subject.

[calguy]

67. Forgive my mortgage

Then get back to me.

[Autumn]

73. At least you can buy a home. A lot of young people can't even get an apartment unless they have room

mates.

[calguy]

77. I'll get out my violin.

[Autumn]

78. Your Stradivarius I'm sure. Your compassion for young people is staggering.

[calguy]

90. Hey, I was once a young person myself

The most important thing I learned, the hard way much of the time, is to think about the future consequences of my decisions before I dive into something long term.

I have compassion for today's youth, but that doesn't include paying off their debt.

[Autumn]

93. Key word "once" Compassion doesn't go away with age. You have it or you don't

and YOU aren't paying off their debt. But when politicians fail them and they don't show up to vote you will yell and blame them for your loss the loudest.

[calguy]

102. When they start showing up to vote in EVERY election

the politicians will give them more of their ear.
With age comes greater vision and perspective we didn't have in our younger years.

[Autumn]

105. So you are saying you didn't have vision and perspective when you were young?

With what young people are facing they don't have the luxury to wait for politician to eventually meet their needs. That's the trouble with some of us old people, we think the world should go our way. Ten, twenty years we won't be here. They will, and things don't look to good for them. Thanks to us.

[OneGrassRoot]

84. You're really outing yourself here...

Let me guess, you're one of those "compassionate conservatives" eh?

Bless your heart.

[calguy]

89. I'm just tired of all the whining, that's all.

[EYESORE 9001]

121. Tell me about it

[jimfields33]

94. Oh dear. Until 24, I had three roommates 1987-1993)

This is not new nor a tragedy.

[Autumn]

95. You can get a one bedroom here for $1,810 - $2,990+ depending on location. A two bedroom house

goes for $1,890- $2,900 + utilities. Did you pay $500 a month in student loans?

[jimfields33]

100. I worked my way through school so took longer.

It looks like the house could have four friends at 470 each. Where there is a will, there is a way.

[hippywife]

91. Since you seem to enjoy wallowing

in ignorance, welcome to ignore.

[calguy]

92. You're welcome.

[BlackSkimmer]

110. Nice personal attack.

It's a discussion board.

[Celerity]

163. absolutely chalk and cheese

Houses and flats are not provided free of charge to everyone in the large number of non-US industrialised nations where tertiary education is either tuition free or extremely low cost for their citizens there (and citizens of other EU nations in the case over here).

[Jacson6]

190. Will all Student Loans Be Charged Back Interest when the loans resume?

That sure would be hard on them. Hopefully the Government will write off the interest due for the last 3 years.

[multigraincracker]

3. Not a lawyer, but I think it

can be done if payments are placed in an escrow account.

[Hekate]

5. Gods help them if they try that

Sounds like someone who had an all-night dorm-session in college with a budding Sovereign Citizen.

[TheBlackAdder]

40. Yep. Better jobs, housing & insurance also check credit scores, they would just bone themselves.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

60. Welcome to DU

I guess.

[Celerity]

164. missed what they said, but they went bye-bye so I am sure it was bullshit, lol

[Mr.Bill]

7. My biggest worry for the coming election

is that people will not vote for Biden because they will (wrongly) blame him for not cancelling their debt.

[Hortensis]

19. Poor character AND judgement. You've just described

almost my least favorite kind of political attitude these days. Since we can't take the degrees back,

Hope any who do double down on their stupidity and do the world a favor by

* Posting videos and social media posts bragging and arguing about it.
* Discoursing about it at gatherings, louder as the night goes on.
* Featuring it in dating app profiles.
* Including lengthy rationales in employment applications requiring background checks. (Almost all of them these days?)

[liberal_mama]

39. A neighbor of mine who is republican voted for Biden because he's overburdened with student loans

This is a big issue for a lot of people. This neighbor is so republican that he once had a Ron Paul bumper sticker on his car! But he values his personal finances more, I suppose. Some people are one issue voters.

[Johnny2X2X]

10. PAYE

Pay as you earn has been changed. Instead of 10% of discretionary income it’s now 5%, and the allowance for living expenses went from 1.5 times the poverty rate income to 2.25 times. So someone making $50K a year will have like $100 a month student loan payments.

But it’s still several months from going into effect.

[MichMan]

15. I think that program is going to cause college costs to rise much faster than they have been already

If someone's payment is capped at $100 per month regardless of how much they borrow, there is no longer any incentive for anyone to not borrow the maximum amounts allowed. If my loan payments are the same for attending a Community College at $100 per credit, a state college at $400 credit, vs one charging $600 a credit hour, I expect colleges to start charging a lot more to take advantage. Colleges are going to be cashing in courtesy of the taxpayers.


If you were told your car payment was capped at $200 a month regardless of what car you bought, why would anyone buy a base model Kia Rio instead of a fully loaded BMW or Lexus?

[OneGrassRoot]

22. Any idea if that will apply...

to Parent Plus loans, and has interest accrual been adjusted in any way?

[Johnny2X2X]

29. Parent loans not eligible.

Sorry.

And as with PAYE before, make your payments for 29 years and if there is any balance left it is forgiven.

[helpisontheway]

12. It will destroy their credit

My son graduates in December. Unfortunately, he is graduating with $7,000 student loan debt. He had GI Bill that was transferred to him by his father(all three of our sons received a portion). Then we paid the rest out of pocket. However, we are retired now so not paying anything else out of pocket. We told him that he could stay with us and pay off his debt. He could also build his savings.

[maxsolomon]

171. 7K will be relatively easy.

he should count himself lucky.

[bottomofthehill]

13. Good plan.

I will try it on my credit cards, car loan and home loan and see where it works best.

Sarcasm thingy added

[Takket]

18. this "article" is absurd

a few people grousing about not paying back a loan on twitter is hardly some kind of mass protest or movement.

I could find 4 people on twitter that hate chocolate which doesn't mean the chocolate industry is doomed to collapse.

There's also a big difference between "blowing off steam" about not wanting to pay back your loan and actually NOT paying back the loan.

This is terrible, lazy journalism. Remember when journalists actually used facts, data, and interviews to create a perspective for the reader, instead of starting with the premise in their head that people in their 20s are deadbeats and searching twitter for a few posts to back it up?

Pathetic.

[calguy]

23. +1000%

[AntivaxHunters]

49. It's a huge issue for young voters - massive actually

Truthout article [link:https://truthout.org/articles/77-percent-of-young-voters-said-student-debt-relief-motivated-them-to-vote/|]

Business Insider article [link:https://www.businessinsider.com/student-loan-forgiveness-brought-gen-z-to-polls-midterms-2022-11|]

[Takket]

55. i didn't say it wasn't. The OP was about students REFUSING to pay back loans

and backing it up with nothing.

[BlackSkimmer]

111. Well said.

Twitter is nonsense.

[betsuni]

117. +1

[liberalmuse]

21. They've been left with a huge burden as it is.

Shame on the prior generations for overburdening their posterity and leaving them nothing but a completely fucked up and woefully unjust system. Millennials and Z's parents could afford to go to school because it was very inexpensive, but their parents voted for people who wanted to profit off of our youth and deny everyone but the children of the wealthy an affordable college education. Now student loans are treated like jumbo loans, divided up, repackaged and sold to the highest bidder who charge outrageous interest rates. What a future we've left to those we entrust the future with. I'm ashamed that there are so many "progressives" who are clueless and are part of the system oppressing our young. I see some pointing fingers and shaming these students when that finger should be turned 180 degrees. You don't piss on your young.

[OneGrassRoot]

25. I agree.

The attitude that these kids are lazy and entitled or naive without a care in the world pisses me off when it comes from people who supposedly share our general worldview.

This “suck it up, buttercup” grousing about anything that doesn’t impact them or theirs at this moment is very selfish.

[calguy]

34. It pisses people off who've struggled to pay their debt

and hearing a generation screaming that they shouldn't have to.

[OneGrassRoot]

37. We hear you, loud and clear. If you and yours struggled...

it's only fair that others do too, even if the system that caused you to struggle sucks and is grossly unfair.

[calguy]

41. If the system sucks, and I don't deny that it does...

then the change the system. But that's where the rub is. The past few generations of younger folks, many of whom are now bitching about the debt they've taken on, were too damn lazy to get their ass to the polls and vote. There weren't enough of us older folks to overcome the faithful conservative voters who then imposed their will and unfair system onto you all.

[Autumn]

97. Have you ever bothered to look into student debt? How it became so bad and how it became impossible

to get out from under it? By the way, young voters got Biden in office.

[calguy]

101. And if young voters continue showing up at the voting booth

they'll actually see some progress on the issues they care about. This couldn't be said for the young voters who deserted President Obama on his first midterm election. We lost our Democratic Congress and the rest is history.
When younger voters show up for every election, not just presidential ones, they'll reclaim the future that is rightfully theirs. All they have to do is claim it.

[treestar]

158. It was not nearly as much

I paid mine off, but they were not in the amounts being discussed today.

Which voters voted that state budgets should no longer fund universities?

[GenThePerservering]

107. Yes - there are a lot of ignorant

Fucked up opinions in this thread.

[calguy]

26. It wasn't as easy as all that back in the day

I'm all for positive changes to the system, but I'm not for forgiving the debt of someone who took it on by their own choice.

Get back to me when they start forgiving mortgages, and we'll talk.

[MichMan]

32. Student loans have been directly issued by the Federal government for 12 years now.

It was passed in 2010 as part of the Affordable Care Act and set forth the terms and interest rates. I believe the revenues from interest charges were intended to subsidize health care premiums.

[calguy]

38. Shame on the younger generations who were too lazy

to get off their asses and show up to vote. Had they shown up at the 2010 midterms, Obama wouldn't have suffered such a humiliating defeat and lost the Democratic Congress that passed his healthcare plan that's helped so many people since.

Democrats in Congress put their careers on the line by passing that legislation, and they were booted out of Congress mainly because young people were too fucking lazy to vote. Think about how much more Obama might have accomplished without having a hostile Congress during his final SIX years.

There is hope though. Younger voters are starting to take their responsibility as citizens more serious and are actually voting in larger numbers. If they keep doing that, they can claim the future that is rightfully theirs.

[MichMan]

44. The ACA was the bill that included the student loan legislation that is still in place.

As I recall, the revenue from student loan interest payments was intended to subsidize health care insurance costs.

[AntivaxHunters]

50. What are you talking about?

Jeez.

[betsuni]

58. +1

[MichMan]

42. Just how is it that a working man can take out a $30k car loan and expects to pay it back in 6 yrs.

but someone with a $20k student loan and a college education is overwhelmed, and thus incapable of paying it back over a much longer time period?

[Mariana]

70. If he finds he truly can't pay the $30k car loan, he can declare bankruptcy.

That isn't an option with student loans.

[MichMan]

99. And they take the car away too, don't they?

Last edited Sun Jun 4, 2023, 01:15 AM - Edit history (2)

He doesn't get to keep it.

Would people discharging student loan debt with personal bankruptcy be willing to forego all college credits and degrees as if they never attended at all? That way, those who dropped out & didn't graduate, or felt their degrees were useless, could get a fresh start, while those who got the advantage of attending college with a decent career couldn't foist them off on taxpayers.

[Patterson]

46. The first thing that needs to be done is to lower the interest rates.

[kjones]

47. A lot of out of touch older people here.

I'll be here for the "I could have told you that" when the young, educated liberal vote is depressed.

[AntivaxHunters]

53. This.

[Autumn]

74. The I got mine screw you crowd.

Wait till you encounter the I have to pay for my health insurance out of my paycheck screw Medicare for All crowd.

[calguy]

76. It's not I got mine and screw you

It's I've had to pay for every decision I've made, good or bad. I expect you to do the same.

[Autumn]

79. I'm retired and have no bills. I made damn good decisions. When I started out you could buy a

house for $17,000, that first house I bought sold for 275,000 last year. Think people today can do that? I used grants for books because my college tuition was free. It costs out the ass now. That's not their fault.

Yes you are in that got mine crowd.

[OneGrassRoot]

85. Definitely in the "got mine, so fuck off" crowd. n/t

[Autumn]

87. Student debt burden is second in the US to home mortgages.

[GenThePerservering]

108. Property over people

Past over the future. Total lack of any current understanding or knowledge.

[Celerity]

119. +100

[EYESORE 9001]

122. No matter how you frame it

Smells like dark jealousy to me.

[calguy]

75. One of the reasons we're in this mess is because

The young, liberal vote was missing in action on election day. By being too lazy to get their ass into a voting booth, they handed these decisions to committed conservative voters who have imposed their will on them. And now they're bitching about a situation they, themselves helped create by not voting.

The young vote abandoned President Obama after he was in office, which lead to the Republican take over of Congress, which lead to many of the problems, like student debt, we face today.

[BlackSkimmer]

112. Lol.

"Older people ".

[betsuni]

115. Ah, the "Democrats are old out-of-touch wealthy elites" insult.

If "the young, educated liberal vote is depressed" then they prefer Republican policies. Their choice.

[treestar]

159. but that only hurts themselves

shoot themselves in the foot.

With a college education, why do they not see that? Why put spiting the older generations (I guess we suffer with Repub congresses/presidents too) and the temporary emotional satisfaction above one's own interests?

How come they don't get out in midterms? You're blaming the older people for saying shitty things? You can still vote, even if older people say shitting things. You're only punishing yourselves, we could say. The older people already paid off their college loans and they weren't nearly as big. So it's only punishing themselves.

[Autumn]

51. Good for them. They got hooked with a scam.

[Sam_Fields]

61. If you can't afford your payments you can sign up for Income Based Repayments

If your income is low enough you will have to pay $0 for twenty to twenty-five years and then the loan will be forgiven. Otherwise you will have a very low payment for twenty to twenty-five years and then the loan will be forgiven. If You are eligible for Public Service Loan forgiveness (PSLF) then after ten years, which you can use IBR to make low payments with, the loan will be forgiven entirely with no income taxes due.

[OneGrassRoot]

83. Not for all of them.

Parent Plus loans don't have any options. I will quite literally be paying on this loan until I die.

[forthemiddle]

127. Parent Plus wasn't included in any forgiveness programs, was it?

Have you had to make payments the last 3 years, or was that paused too? Are they part of the forgiveness program in front of SCOTUS also?
Just curious who will all be included.

[OneGrassRoot]

132. Not including in any current forgiveness programs...

and thus not part of what's in front of SCOTUS. They were paused.

[halobeam]

134. Had to pay these last few years, yes.

Not part of forgiveness program afaik. I don't think it can even go into forbearance for a period of time?

[toesonthenose]

166. Yes, they are.

I have a Parent Plus loan for my daughter. I used the tool to see if I qualified and it said I did. I submitted my form successfully as well. This is from the studentaid.gov website: Parents of Children With Eligible Student Loans
If you’re a parent with eligible loans of your own, including parent PLUS loans, you can submit your own Student Loan Debt Relief Application. Your application will be processed separately from the one your child submits.

[radius777]

63. I fully support the kids not paying back the student loan mafia.

Our higher education system is a racket.

Why exactly does college cost so much, especially with so much information being freely available online?

Most of what we learn we forget anyway, so schooling being so long/generalized is simply a waste of time. The human brain is not a computer than can download information and recall it forever - anything learned that is not used fades away, and is just a waste of money and time.

Getting a fancy degree is more about being in a special club that grants you access to better jobs - it's not about actual ability. The poor kid who couldn't afford to pay the college ransom may actually be more capable - if only a cheaper and high quality education was available.

The kids who did pay the ransom - well they can't discharge their debt the way businesses small and large can and do all of the time.

[BlackSkimmer]

113. Then their social security will be garnished.

This is a fact.

[madville]

82. I blame the universities and colleges

They are sitting on 100s of billions of dollars in their endowment funds, while fleecing lower income students with high tuition because they know student loans are readily available.

[Duppers]

86. What about those of us who pinched pennies

To pay for our offspring's tuition?

I couldn't afford a $5000+ operation to pay for my B.C.'s large tumor removal which resulted in her death.


I support MAKING ALL PUBLIC COLLEGE and TRADE SCHOOL TUITION FREE, for everyone passing the qualifications exams. Only public schools, no religious or private ones.
That would generally improve our society.

[ripcord]

88. College isn't for everyone

There are many trades that make good money and that you don't have to put yourself in hock for life to follow them.

[roamer65]

96. The government will garnish.

Included will be a lot of late fees.

[Buns_of_Fire]

118. Outside of any morality issues, I can only say

that the government has many ways to express its displeasure, none of them pleasant.

I speak as one who once had the IRS suck most of the money out of my checking account, the day after I'd mailed out checks for all the monthly bills.

[honest.abe]

123. A compromise solution would be to forgive the interest and fees accumulated.

But require them to pay back the original loan principal. I suspect many people have already paid back the amount of the original loan so in those cases the entire loan would be considered paid off. I think this compromise solution would be acceptable even to those folks who are upset that they struggled to pay back their student loans.

[Celerity]

129. I have seen some here, over my 5 years of DU, not accept even that.

In fact, I have seen more than one against even a lowering of the interest rates down to smaller amount (with no forgiveness whatsoever). One of those types was a person who, upon questioning, plus their own previous statements, was shown to have, self-admittedly, basically paid almost nothing for a bachelors and a masters degree in terms of tuition in CA decades ago. They said giving breaks at any level was teaching a bad moral lesson and undermining personal responsibility. You know.... bootstraps baby!

Plus they did not want (here is one of the main tells of this type, along with falsely slating us younger folk about voting with dodgy framing atremps, but that is a whole other subject) anything spent on student loan debt reduction, as it would be perhaps (in their invented and faulty construct) used to prevent larger increases for their own SS payments (which were already well above average based off of their own statements in other non related OP threads, and they did NOT like being reminded of that, I can assure you, nor did they like being reminded about their whingeing on about paying too much in federal taxes in another thread that DU search yielded back then).

Literally the archetypal 'I got mine, so fuck you' thematics on display. I truly threw a strop and likely would have gotten the cosh, but I had to skive off to work, and I just let it go after that break in time and spatial aspect.

That event happened in my first several months here on DU, and helped (along with a multiplicity of other similar statements from other posters, granted most not to that level of hypocrisy and lack of any empathy, but unfortunately a few even worse in tenor and tone, some downright extremely hostile) to colour my perception in regards to the debate on these subjects here on this board.

[honest.abe]

138. Yeah this is a tough issue but clearly something needs to be done.

Too many are struggling and in a somewhat hopeless situation. It needs to be addressed in some form or another.

[GenThePerservering]

142. In other words

There is a disappointing amount of ignorance and gaslighting on topics like this. Yes, yes there is.

I expected a bit better than "when I was your age" (in a completely different time under very different circumstances) nonsense.

[radius777]

162. It's generational - most Boomers lack perspective

on this and many other issues that uniquely affect the generations that came after them.

Hopefully as we have a changing of the guard with Gen-X an Millennials coming into power there will be a better understanding of these issues and policies to address them.

[MichMan]

165. And many in the younger generations think Boomers had everything just handed to them

[SYFROYH]

128. Don't boo, vote.

We need more young people voting for Democrats who are pushing for loan forgiveness plans.

Income derived replayment plans are doable for a lot of young people -- although not easy. 10% of poor pay can be hard to do especially when you might have kids or spouse to care for.

[Buckeyeblue]

131. Biden could issue an executive order preventing the collection of federal student loans

We are about to lose a generation because they don't want to go to college and take on debt. A lot of smart kids where I live are opting out of college and getting jobs. It's like we've reverted back to my parents generation.

[Celerity]

143. in situ brain drain

We are about to lose a generation because they don't want to go to college and take on debt. A lot of smart kids where I live are opting out of college and getting jobs.

[Nanjeanne]

144. The problem with students paying back their loans is

the system itself. Student loans have typically extremely high interest rates, cannot be discharged in bankruptcy, low paying jobs when first out of college. Because of the high interest rates and paying small monthly amounts as income is low — the amount of the loan balloons significantly. Some students with limited financial resources because of low income have to go into forbearance where their payments aren’t made but interest at extremely high rates continues. Large numbers of people with student debt have paid their principles off but interest has kept them with seemingly never lowering balances. Some lenders may capitalize your interest or charge interest on top of interest, which results in higher charges. Capitalized interest can make it challenging to make a dent in your total student loan balance.

Here’s a scary statistic

The joint report issued this week by the National Consumer Law Center and the Center for Responsible Lending reviewed data from the U.S. Department of Education for over 400,000 student loan borrowers who have been making voluntary payments on their student loans during the Covid-19 payment pause. The report found that 63% of student loan borrowers who made payments during the Covid-19 forbearance still owe more now than they originally borrowed. One-third of these borrowers owe more than 125% of their original loan balance, despite the fact that no interest has been accruing during the moratorium.

That’s from Forbes but there are scads of articles about the system that is making it so difficult for student debt to be paid off. https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamminsky/2021/08/12/for-many-paying-student-loans-doesnt-stop-balances-from-growing-advocate-push-cancellation-as-a-fix/?sh=72b34b2e691d

[Zeitghost]

188. Extremely high interest rates?

I believe government backed loans are in the ~5% range. That's incredibly low for unsecured debt to someone with no credit and no income.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

157. Not paying the federal government what it's owed doesn't tend to go well.

I may be in the minority here, but I'm not a fan of canceling all student debt. I think Biden's $10,000/$20,000 is on the margins of what is reasonable, but much beyond that seems wrong to me.

Canceling student debt would be a very large transfer to money from the general public to a small slice of the population (around 12%) that is already economically advantaged. It's more or less the opposite of the kinds of programs that Democrats usually support.

Not only that, it doesn't even begin to solve the real problem, which is that college costs too much. If anything, it makes the problem worse, since people will begin to expect future cancelation, encouraging people to take on more debt and colleges to charge even more.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

175. But most of the people here

Were perfectly fine with having their college educations subsidized in the 60s and 70s, but begrudge doing the same for people now.

They got theirs, so who cares about anyone else, amirite?

The hypocrisy is stunning.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

177. Before calling fellow DUers hypocrites...

Do you have data to support your assertion about when people here went to college, and what they paid for it?

[MichMan]

179. I took out student loans in the mid 80's

Worked all day and took night classes at a private college. While it took awhile, I did earn an Engineering degree and paid back the loans over the next ten years. It was a life changing experience, and the best investment I ever made.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

174. I think those with student loans now

Should get the same amount of government backing to pay back their loans as boomers got to attend college without loans.

And in many cases, that would essentially wipe out their debt, because the government subsidized a substantial percentage of the costs of tuition during the Boomer years.

That seems fair to me.

[MichMan]

181. I'm a boomer and had to take out loans to attend college.

There were no government subsidies involved.