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College baseball is almost (Original Post) Casady1 Jun 2023 OP
It's not just college. Ferrets are Cool Jun 2023 #1
Where did you get those numbers? onenote Jun 2023 #3
here Ferrets are Cool Jun 2023 #4
Not sure what those numbers reflect, but 1.7% of professional baseball players aren't women. onenote Jun 2023 #6
That site says the average salary in MLB is 52k. Mosby Jun 2023 #9
I wonder if they may be including minor league baseball in those averages. Mr.Bill Jun 2023 #33
The minimun salary for a MLB player this season is $720,000. The average cannot be 52k. FSogol Jun 2023 #57
! This entire thread is nonsense! we can do it Jun 2023 #63
If it's just the cost, how is it that over 150 major leaguers are from the Dominican Republic? onenote Jun 2023 #2
Caribbean Casady1 Jun 2023 #91
I don't think you get to decide what is or isn't part of a discussion on this board. onenote Jun 2023 #108
Baseball lost its preeminence as the top sport in America decades ago. brush Jun 2023 #5
Ton's of 3 point shots Casady1 Jun 2023 #14
But basketball and football have filled arenas. brush Jun 2023 #35
Can't speak for every minority group but basketball is far and away the most popular sport Takket Jun 2023 #7
Go back to Willie Mays Casady1 Jun 2023 #12
college baseball isn't as popular because you are still years from MLB Takket Jun 2023 #23
Not quite. Football is even more expensive to play than baseball... brush Jun 2023 #36
It really depends on how you play and who bears the cost. I have ... Whiskeytide Jun 2023 #74
Your saying "he has never played travel orleague football makes my point. brush Jun 2023 #75
I'm not sure what point you see each of us countering. You said that ... Whiskeytide Jun 2023 #81
There are a lot Casady1 Jun 2023 #90
My point is that football is at least as expensive as baseball. brush Jun 2023 #92
How much experience Casady1 Jun 2023 #94
Played all of them. Football equipment is expensive. Been there, done that. brush Jun 2023 #95
What years did you participate? Casady1 Jun 2023 #96
I'm sorry. That's just wrong from the player's perspective. A travel .... Whiskeytide Jun 2023 #99
Football equipment,shoulder pads, other pads, helmet, shoes, uniforms, travel expenses... brush Jun 2023 #101
But my entire point is that the PLAYER doesn't ... Whiskeytide Jun 2023 #105
Ok, but isn't this OP about college baseball? brush Jun 2023 #107
You got it right Casady1 Jun 2023 #102
Thanks. It's a little tiring. I need a whiskey. n/t Whiskeytide Jun 2023 #106
huh... interesting i looked it up, the numbers of whites in D-1 mens baseball is shrinking ever year Takket Jun 2023 #8
no Celerity Jun 2023 #10
The cost of baseball I mentioned is in Casady1 Jun 2023 #11
Disagree, and you did not effectively rebut my points at all IMHO. You are sliding goalposts and Celerity Jun 2023 #16
Funny last Casady1 Jun 2023 #19
anecdotal and also non responsive to my points, you are just repeating your original argument nt Celerity Jun 2023 #22
When was last Casady1 Jun 2023 #26
logical fallacy Celerity Jun 2023 #27
Whatever Casady1 Jun 2023 #79
I am not a 'Mr' nor a 'guy', and you are simply using more fallacies (ad hominem attacks) which only Celerity Jun 2023 #123
Outfitting a youth football team costs more than outfitting a youth baseball team. onenote Jun 2023 #46
Football is at least as expensive to play as baseball, from high school to college... brush Jun 2023 #70
That's cheep. hardluck Jun 2023 #71
Swimming is also expensive xmas74 Jun 2023 #124
Bats and gloves aren't nearly that much Polybius Jun 2023 #73
Go look at the prices Casady1 Jun 2023 #93
Overpriced and exceptional equiptment Polybius Jun 2023 #109
When was the last time Casady1 Jun 2023 #112
2020 myself Polybius Jun 2023 #115
Why do you people Casady1 Jun 2023 #113
I have been involved Polybius Jun 2023 #114
Why do you think that what gets kids playing baseball ExWhoDoesntCare Jun 2023 #118
Football is more evpensive to play than baseball even. brush Jun 2023 #37
They don't have travel baseball in those countries jmowreader Jun 2023 #89
more non responsiveness to my points nt Celerity Jun 2023 #97
You're confusing apples and oranges ExWhoDoesntCare Jun 2023 #121
on the actual subject... Snooper9 Jun 2023 #122
you're right about the number of players from often poor countries in MLB, but that is a separate fishwax Jun 2023 #110
Best post on this thread, helps to clarify the issue. radius777 Jun 2023 #116
What do you base that on? lpbk2713 Jun 2023 #13
I coached Casady1 Jun 2023 #15
Good glove and bat in the youth program is between $400-$600 edisdead Jun 2023 #17
This is true Casady1 Jun 2023 #20
of course both my kids play hockey edisdead Jun 2023 #24
Louisville Slugger around $40... WarGamer Jun 2023 #18
Lol Casady1 Jun 2023 #21
But kids get into baseball and football before they're 11 years old onenote Jun 2023 #47
a $40 glove is garbage. edisdead Jun 2023 #25
Football is even more expensive to play. brush Jun 2023 #39
As others have said - it's about interest level not race or class when it comes radius777 Jun 2023 #28
Caribbean players Casady1 Jun 2023 #30
How are they not relevant? The claim was the expense kept POC from playing baseball in the US onenote Jun 2023 #48
This applies to the USA Casady1 Jun 2023 #54
Yes. A very poor environment. Which undercuts the argument that cost explains the dearth of onenote Jun 2023 #62
When was the last time you coached Casady1 Jun 2023 #80
Not relevant. The same kids that you say can't afford baseball can afford football. onenote Jun 2023 #82
There are many poor countries in the world radius777 Jun 2023 #69
Latin and Asian countries don't have highschool ad college football. brush Jun 2023 #40
Simply not true that baseball has lost appeal - it is 2nd behind the NFL radius777 Jun 2023 #41
If you play 162 games of course you'll have more revenue... brush Jun 2023 #43
And demand for baseball endures despite that long season. radius777 Jun 2023 #66
That's why it's a favorite of white people. underpants Jun 2023 #29
Are you saying it's a favorite of white people TexasDem69 Jun 2023 #34
Yes. underpants Jun 2023 #45
So that's why white America's hate football? lol EX500rider Jun 2023 #64
If lack of blacks make a sport more popular with whites then please explain the NHL to me Takket Jun 2023 #44
What do you mean? There are hardly any Black NHL players either... brush Jun 2023 #68
exactly...... Takket Jun 2023 #76
I don't quite get that logic. Hockey is Canadian origin and started with just 6 original teams... brush Jun 2023 #77
I doubt that many people distinguish between a Black player from the Dominican Republic onenote Jun 2023 #49
In your opinion Casady1 Jun 2023 #55
So is football. But minorities predominate in football. onenote Jun 2023 #61
+1. This argument that 'baseball is too expensive to play' is absurd. radius777 Jun 2023 #67
Is baseball more popular among whites than Football ? JI7 Jun 2023 #104
this quickly becomes a "Black poor" thread. Gymnastics and Ice skating is pricey for parents BlueWaveNeverEnd Jun 2023 #31
Same was said about tennis and golf too treestar Jun 2023 #56
Maybe it's because baseball bamagal62 Jun 2023 #32
+1. They should keep stats on tobacco spitting and crotch scratching dalton99a Jun 2023 #38
Yep. A lot of standing bamagal62 Jun 2023 #42
There's a lot of standing around in football. onenote Jun 2023 #51
There's little real action in football TexasDem69 Jun 2023 #87
There's some irony in this AntivaxHunters Jun 2023 #50
Your living in the past Casady1 Jun 2023 #58
"Most minorities bypass the sport" flvegan Jun 2023 #52
American minorities Casady1 Jun 2023 #59
You keep saying that but you never explain why its a separate issue. onenote Jun 2023 #83
It is expensive but more about options and optics Buckeyeblue Jun 2023 #53
There are scholarships Casady1 Jun 2023 #60
There are 11.7 scholarships per team in college baseball TexasDem69 Jun 2023 #85
Not enough for a team Casady1 Jun 2023 #86
That wasn't what you said TexasDem69 Jun 2023 #88
Excellent recap. underpants Jun 2023 #65
The kids are better now because of the training they get Buckeyeblue Jun 2023 #72
Red shirting and hockey players underpants Jun 2023 #78
Honestly Casady1 Jun 2023 #84
That's the problem with our national soccer program. underpants Jun 2023 #98
My friend is very involved with Casady1 Jun 2023 #100
It just has to do with lack of interest. Maybe there could be more effort JI7 Jun 2023 #103
THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 "reach out and try to get more diverse groups " is what multiple studies done by uponit7771 Jun 2023 #111
How much more diverse do they need to be? ExWhoDoesntCare Jun 2023 #119
Baseball isn't really all that expensive ExWhoDoesntCare Jun 2023 #117
um, not- Snooper9 Jun 2023 #120

Ferrets are Cool

(21,239 posts)
1. It's not just college.
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 05:20 PM
Jun 2023

The most common ethnicity among professional baseball players is White, which makes up 72.8% of all professional baseball players. Comparatively, there are 8.9% of the Black or African American ethnicity and 7.5% of the Hispanic or Latino ethnicity.

onenote

(43,404 posts)
3. Where did you get those numbers?
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 05:30 PM
Jun 2023

According to MLB, as of Opening Day, 40.34% of overall rosters (including the injured list, suspension and restricted lists) come from diverse backgrounds -- a 2.34% increase from a year earlier. This included 945 players overall -- 59 Black players (6.2%), 285 Latino/Hispanic players (30.2%), 30 Asian players (3.2%), six Pacific Islander/Native Hawaiian players (0.53%) and two Native American players (0.21%).

onenote

(43,404 posts)
6. Not sure what those numbers reflect, but 1.7% of professional baseball players aren't women.
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 05:57 PM
Jun 2023

And looking at a broader base than professional ballplayers will inevitably understate Latino/Hispanic and Asian players, who typically don't begin playing in the US until they become professionals.

Mosby

(16,686 posts)
9. That site says the average salary in MLB is 52k.
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 06:21 PM
Jun 2023

The average pay for 2023 is 4.9 million dollars.

The latest numbers I can find are 28.5% Latino in MLB, but that isn't reflected in college, where most players are white.


Mr.Bill

(24,466 posts)
33. I wonder if they may be including minor league baseball in those averages.
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 08:52 PM
Jun 2023

Those guys don't make very much money.

FSogol

(45,752 posts)
57. The minimun salary for a MLB player this season is $720,000. The average cannot be 52k.
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 09:16 AM
Jun 2023


This entire thread is nonsense.

onenote

(43,404 posts)
2. If it's just the cost, how is it that over 150 major leaguers are from the Dominican Republic?
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 05:26 PM
Jun 2023

There are multiple reasons why American born black athletes don't gravitate to baseball. It's not just the expense.

onenote

(43,404 posts)
108. I don't think you get to decide what is or isn't part of a discussion on this board.
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 08:02 PM
Jun 2023

But nice try.

brush

(55,250 posts)
5. Baseball lost its preeminence as the top sport in America decades ago.
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 05:56 PM
Jun 2023

It's not just expense as football with all its equipment and stadium requirements is even more expensive than baseball but Black players make up the majority of college and pro football. It's an enigma. It's also interesting that college softball has a large percentage of Black and POC players than college baseball (and is more fun to watch IMO). Wonder what's up with that?

Perhaps pro baseball with it's hide-bound rituals about it's numbers and precious records has refused to evolve and change with society and college baseball mimics that. Football and basketball evolve and change rules when necessary not just for safety but with a sense of what the fans want to see which brings up baseball's big, financial problem, it still hasn't learned how to market it's stars and most stadiums are at best a third filled during most games.

In contrast, football used to be a league dominated by great running backs but that's changed as fans now want to see the fast-paced, scoring action of the passing game so the pros and colleges have adjusted the rules to favor quarterbacks and receivers.

Basketball somewhat similarly was once a big man-dominated game, now it's the wings and sharpshooting guards who are the stars and who the league markets, not to mention the NBA adopted the 3-point shot from the high-scoring ABA decades ago and have merged with that league.

brush

(55,250 posts)
35. But basketball and football have filled arenas.
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 09:41 PM
Jun 2023

Baseball stadiums are mostly empty.

Basketball and football know what's up and are better run.

Takket

(22,154 posts)
7. Can't speak for every minority group but basketball is far and away the most popular sport
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 06:02 PM
Jun 2023

for blacks going into collegiate athletics (at least at the D-1 level). Baseball is less popular. It isn't just economics it is personal choice.

 

Casady1

(2,133 posts)
12. Go back to Willie Mays
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 06:53 PM
Jun 2023

and Aaron and notice how many more POC played baseball. Economics make a difference. There are very few baseball scholarships while basketball has multiple scholarships because it generates revenue.

Takket

(22,154 posts)
23. college baseball isn't as popular because you are still years from MLB
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 07:27 PM
Jun 2023

whereas NCAA basketball takes you straight to the NBA. Hence why basketball is more popular to watch at the collegiate level.

Honestly I just don't see it. I don't think there are tons of minorities out there clamoring to play baseball but they just can't afford it, so they play basketball or nothing at all. Ask a hundred young black kids who their favorite athletes are and I'll bet you get a lot more NBA players than MLB players, probably just about the same distribution as demographics of those sports.

brush

(55,250 posts)
36. Not quite. Football is even more expensive to play than baseball...
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 09:48 PM
Jun 2023

and Black and POC player play either football of basketball. Baseball is behind the times as it has never learned to market its stars.

For example, Mike Trout is one of the greatest baseball players ever and most people have no idea who he is. But we see Steph Curry, Shaq, Payton Manning, Aaron Rodgers and other stars from football and baseball all over TV in commercials...making money.

Baseball never learns.

Whiskeytide

(4,475 posts)
74. It really depends on how you play and who bears the cost. I have ...
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 12:51 PM
Jun 2023

… a 16 yr old that has played baseball, basketball and football since he was 5 to 9 years old. He has played travel ball in baseball and basketball. And has played all three for his school. I have 10 years of anecdotal experience with these issues.

Travel baseball is significantly more expensive for the family. We buy everything, really. Next would be basketball - where we also buy pretty much everything, but there is less to buy than in baseball. Football may be more expensive over all, but his school picks up the majority of those costs - NOT the family.

Note - he has never played travel or league football - I imagine the cost there could get pretty expensive as well. But I think youth sports provide more opportunities for football (and to a lesser extent basketball) at little to no cost. Baseball really is a self pay industry.

brush

(55,250 posts)
75. Your saying "he has never played travel orleague football makes my point.
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 01:08 PM
Jun 2023

Last edited Sun Jun 4, 2023, 04:34 PM - Edit history (1)

But then you counter your own point by saying "But I think youth sports provide more opportunities for football (and to a lesser extent basketball) at little to no cost.

Whiskeytide

(4,475 posts)
81. I'm not sure what point you see each of us countering. You said that ...
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 03:14 PM
Jun 2023

… football was more expensive than baseball. Overall that’s probably true, but not if you’re looking at the cost for the player.

The youth sports system in this country has essentially privatized baseball now. The travel baseball industry is in the process of replacing the high school baseball concept as a player development system. College and pro scouts can go to a large travel baseball tournament and see perhaps a dozen prospects play multiple games in a weekend. Much more efficient for them than going to 12 different HS baseball games in 12 different locations to watch 1 player play 7 innings. Some top prospects now don’t even play school ball because the exposure is greater with the travel organizations.

That’s now beginning to happen with basketball, but it’s still years behind baseball.

But football has not seen this yet. There are little league football leagues everywhere, but once you reach HS age, school ball is where you play. Travel football is almost non-existent.

And that’s where the cost TO THE PLAYERS FAMILY diverges so dramatically. If you’re a football phenom, you can play school ball at little to no cost to yourself and have a path to the next level. You can no longer do that in baseball. Travel baseball can cost thousands a year for the player’s family.

Iow, football programs may be more expensive, but PLAYING football for recognition and advancement to college is much, much cheaper for the individual football player.

brush

(55,250 posts)
92. My point is that football is at least as expensive as baseball.
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 04:38 PM
Jun 2023

Flag or touch football is minor IMO and is not part of the equation as it tney have little or no costs. We're talking tackle football that needs helmets, pads, cleats...the whole deal. Real football.

brush

(55,250 posts)
95. Played all of them. Football equipment is expensive. Been there, done that.
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 04:46 PM
Jun 2023

How can you even deny that?

Whiskeytide

(4,475 posts)
99. I'm sorry. That's just wrong from the player's perspective. A travel ....
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 05:50 PM
Jun 2023

…. Baseball team costs at least $2k a year just in team dues (some are a lot more). That might get you uniforms (couple of jerseys, a bat bag, helmet and hats), but often that’s extra. It does cover the teams entry fee into most of the tournaments (but usually not all - there may be a chip in tourney or two), and the players hotel and meals on the road. The rest is for the coaches pay. They’re not volunteer at the higher levels.

You typically buy the pants, spikes, turf shoes, socks and all other gear. Good gloves can cost $500 or more. You’ll probably need a new one every season. Bats? Minimum $300, and some as much as $650. You’ll need two of those. Batting gloves are $50 a set, and you’ll go through 4-5 a season. Plus hotels, gas and meals for your family at all the tournaments - which can last 5-6 days. You can take off work, right? Plus your kid will need separate batting lessons year round. Pitching too if he pitches. That’s another $3 to 4 hundred a month.

I don’t know how old you are. I’m pretty old. It wasn’t like this at all when I was a kid. But it has changed. If you are a poor inner city kid, you simply cannot afford baseball unless you have a sponsor arranged by someone who has scouted you outside the usual channels.

brush

(55,250 posts)
101. Football equipment,shoulder pads, other pads, helmet, shoes, uniforms, travel expenses...
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 06:08 PM
Jun 2023

are not cheap either. That's just evident to anyone thinking clearly.

Whiskeytide

(4,475 posts)
105. But my entire point is that the PLAYER doesn't ...
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 07:54 PM
Jun 2023

… buy most of that stuff. Its covered by the school. The school pays for it. Not the player. Football is cheaper for the PLAYER. I don’t know how a thinking person cannot get that.

brush

(55,250 posts)
107. Ok, but isn't this OP about college baseball?
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 08:01 PM
Jun 2023

Those players aren't paying for their equipment. One poster hi-jacked it to amateur players...and amateur football travel players, or their parents, pay for their equipment too.

Takket

(22,154 posts)
8. huh... interesting i looked it up, the numbers of whites in D-1 mens baseball is shrinking ever year
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 06:11 PM
Jun 2023
https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2018/12/13/ncaa-demographics-database.aspx

in 2012 D1 was 82% white, 5% black, 13% other

in 2022 is is 75% white, 6% black, 18% other (rounding error)

The % of white players has shrunk every year for the last decade.

Celerity

(45,266 posts)
10. no
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 06:23 PM
Jun 2023
Baseball is so expensive to play that most minorities bypass the sport.


you have a lot of major league baseball players of colour from poor (and small in some cases) Caribbean, Central, and South American nations

plus in US high schools, you have a lot of POC athletes who play baseball, but also play more popular (in terms of playing in college) sports, mainly American football and basketball

 

Casady1

(2,133 posts)
11. The cost of baseball I mentioned is in
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 06:49 PM
Jun 2023

In the USA. The Latin/Caribbean players come from baseball obsessed countries and is not relevant. If POC are playing baseball in college go look at the games on ESPN right now. There are hardly any POC in the games.
I coached baseball. Bats cost $200-$300 and you need a new one every season. Gloves are $250.
Travel baseball which all the college players play cost at least 3-5k per year. You have to travel to remote sites that require a hotel.

Basketball and football are much cheaper and people are not buying football helmets. They buy cleats and in basketball you buy shoes.

Celerity

(45,266 posts)
16. Disagree, and you did not effectively rebut my points at all IMHO. You are sliding goalposts and
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 07:00 PM
Jun 2023

ignoring other valid points I made, such as the highly relevant fact that many POC play baseball in high school (often in poorer school districts), but choose to play basketball or American football at uni, not baseball.

I stand by my positings.

cheers

 

Casady1

(2,133 posts)
19. Funny last
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 07:10 PM
Jun 2023

Night during the Auburn/ Penn game this exact topic was mentioned that African Americans are being priced out of the game.

Celerity

(45,266 posts)
27. logical fallacy
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 08:06 PM
Jun 2023
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_accomplishment

Appeal to accomplishment is a genetic fallacy wherein Person A challenges a thesis put forward by Person B because Person B has not accomplished similar feats or accomplished as many feats as Person C or Person A.

The reverse, appealing to the fact that no one has the proper experience in question and thus cannot prove something is impossible, is a version of an argument from silence.

Appeal to accomplishment is a form of appeal to authority, which is a well-known logical fallacy. Some consider that it can be used in a cogent form when all sides of a discussion agree on the reliability of the authority in the given context.


I am sure you have commented about and had opinions on the US Senate, the US House, and the POTUS despite you never being elected to them.

IF we were to follow your logic, we all could dismiss anything anyone said in re those institutions and members if they themselves were not elected to those positions, which of course is not a valid stance.

Others (some before me in the thread order) disagree with the premiss of your OP. Perhaps you might try to achieve a more fruitful (for you) colloquy by engaging with one of them.
 

Casady1

(2,133 posts)
79. Whatever
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 03:02 PM
Jun 2023

Mr. who never coached youth baseball or was involved in sports. I am sure you were the guy who was picked last.

Celerity

(45,266 posts)
123. I am not a 'Mr' nor a 'guy', and you are simply using more fallacies (ad hominem attacks) which only
Thu Jun 8, 2023, 11:38 PM
Jun 2023

goes to further prove the weakness of your positings.

this level of pettiness and assumption from you is so telling:

I am sure you were the guy who was picked last.


smdh

Aslo, this is false:

or was involved in sports


I played

girls football (soccer) Midfielder mostly. I was quite good (was pretty much box to box, not much of a scorer) until I hit a huge growth spurt and quit due to knee pain

girls cricket (I was not much of a bowler, but a decent batter) I am half Bajan, cricket is in my genes, lol

rowing (women's and mixed) at uni (club level, nothing hardcore)

I am also quite good at squash and badminton, plus run (enter 5 and 10Ks at times), ski (alpine and nordic), swim, cycle, etc

onenote

(43,404 posts)
46. Outfitting a youth football team costs more than outfitting a youth baseball team.
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 11:00 PM
Jun 2023

The number of players on a youth football team is almost always more than the number of players on a youth baseball team, since you have 11 players on offense and 11 players on defense, plus sub. Baseball starting line-ups are nine players and some pitchers, although at the youth level, many pitchers also play in the field when they aren't scheduled to pitch. Every football player needs, at minimum, a helmet, shoulder pads, cleats and a uniform, which can easily exceed $1000 even for youth league players. And footballs run around $100 and a team needs a bunch. The cost of a uniform for youth baseball player, including shoes, is less than the costs of a fully fitted out football player. Gloves can add a significant amount to the cost, but the aluminum bats used at the youth baseball level are not prohibitively expensive. And for the price of 6 footballs you can get well over 100 baseballs.

Obviously, as you move up the ranks from local little league to travel high school level teams, the quality and cost of the gear increases. But at the introductory level, beginning football players still need more gear, particularly protective gear, than little leaguers.

brush

(55,250 posts)
70. Football is at least as expensive to play as baseball, from high school to college...
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 12:19 PM
Jun 2023

to the pros...equipment, stadiums needed, all coaches, trainers, injuries/recovery costs. Football is probably more expensive.

xmas74

(29,703 posts)
124. Swimming is also expensive
Fri Jun 9, 2023, 12:05 AM
Jun 2023

Those suits aren't cheap, caps constantly tear, goggles get lost and then the teavel expenses and meet costs just to compete.

I've read hockey is one of the most expensive.

Polybius

(16,369 posts)
73. Bats and gloves aren't nearly that much
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 12:47 PM
Jun 2023

Mom and Pop stores rip you off, check out Amazon, you can get both for $50-$100. You don't need MLB professional level equipment.

 

Casady1

(2,133 posts)
112. When was the last time
Mon Jun 5, 2023, 12:07 PM
Jun 2023

you were involved in youth baseball. I coached for six years in the 2010 timeframe. I know the expense of travel ball and one of my friends just ended travel ball.

Her son just finished travel ball 3 years ago. It is easily $5,000 without the hotel rooms. I am on the phone with her right now. She said I am so right on the cost and he it prohibits African American from participating. We are in Georgia which has the fourth most major leaguers of any state. The only states that have more are CA, TX and FL and GA is less that half the size of those states.

Many years I was sitting on a bench watching my brother play 19-20 year old league. This guy said to me that all sports in GA are professional from the age of five. I said c'mon. He said if you are down here long enough you will find out I am right.

Well, he was right. The training starts so early. UGA dominates football and almost everyone is from the state of GA.

Jaylen Brown of the Celtics is from Marietta. I went to see him in the state championship. My own son's high school had Jodie Meeks, Jeremy Lamb and Al Fariouq- aminu.

Three pro's from one high school in successive years.

This is a big time sports state and this is what it costs to participate.

Polybius

(16,369 posts)
115. 2020 myself
Mon Jun 5, 2023, 01:04 PM
Jun 2023

Or 2023 if you you count me helping out my nephew. I don't dispute the travel costs, I was only talking about bats and gloves.

 

Casady1

(2,133 posts)
113. Why do you people
Mon Jun 5, 2023, 12:29 PM
Jun 2023

who have not been involved in youth sports think you know more than people who have been involved with it?

Polybius

(16,369 posts)
114. I have been involved
Mon Jun 5, 2023, 01:02 PM
Jun 2023

My nephew also plays and I'm close friends with his coach. Amazon is what they recommend. They are 12 and play locally, not 19 in AAA ball. I'll ask him later to link the bat and glove he uses for first base.

 

ExWhoDoesntCare

(4,741 posts)
118. Why do you think that what gets kids playing baseball
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 12:23 AM
Jun 2023

Is youth sports groups?

The interest in a particular sport often starts with playing the game with friends as a youngster, especially for minority children. Youth sports comes later, not first. Many minority kids never even play for a "youth sports" program like the ones you take part in until they get to middle school years. What they know of the game is from playing in streets or (the ever-fewer) parks and vacant lots.

So it's the costs to get into the game at the beginning, before the youth programs, that people are referencing.

That may be why you can't understand the point they're making about affordability.

jmowreader

(50,834 posts)
89. They don't have travel baseball in those countries
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 04:16 PM
Jun 2023

Okay, here are the numbers for the local American Legion travel teams, the CDA Lumbermen.

To join the Lumbermen, you must first pay $250 for Winter Workout. This is where they decide who even gets to be on the team.

If your kid is 17 to 18, you must then pay an additional $3000.
If 16 or under, you pay an additional $2400.

This only covers things like American Legion national registration, renting Thorco Field, buying uniforms, paying the coaches and so on. You then must buy:

a $400 aluminum bat
at least three $160 wood bats
a $400 glove
a $150 pair of shoes
a $75 batting helmet
say...another $150 for pads, jockstraps, etc, etc.

Oh, and then we haven't even gotten into travel expenses! A lot of these kids go to games with their families and stay in hotels overnight before going back.

Because travel ball is how you get noticed by MLB and college scouts, if you want to move to the pro ranks you almost HAVE to play travel ball.

 

ExWhoDoesntCare

(4,741 posts)
121. You're confusing apples and oranges
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 12:37 AM
Jun 2023

Those programs are for when kids are already into a sport. Getting into it enough to start getting good at it doesn't cost all that much. Many minority kids never get a whiff of a sports program until they're in middle school. They get good at it--and interested in it--from playing it with their friends.

And if you think any of that you list is expensive, try getting into the NFL without being on a college team Even with a scholarship, the costs of college are as bad as anything you listed.

Even before that, independent youth football programs aren't cheap, either. Pads, helmets, cleats and all the rest are far more expensive than anything you listed for baseball.

 

Snooper9

(484 posts)
122. on the actual subject...
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 12:54 AM
Jun 2023

It appears to be a news intrest in 2022, I would say this is an unbiased article on the subject...


https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/28/sport/houston-astros-philadelphia-phillies-african-america-black-players-baseball-mlb-world-series/index.html

Houston Astros manager Dusty Baker says it ‘looks bad’ that the 2022 World Series will have zero African American players
On Wednesday, The Associated Press reported that there would be no US-born Black players in the World Series for the first time since 1950, three years after Jackie Robinson broke the Major League Baseball color barriers.

Baker, who is one of two Black MLB managers, was asked for his thoughts about the AP report at the Astros media day on Thursday. “Well, I don’t think that that’s something that baseball should really be proud of. It looks bad,” Baker said. “It lets people know that it didn’t take a year or even a decade to get to this point.”

While no players will be US born African Americans, there will be Black players in the Fall Classic, including Afro-Cuban slugger Yordan Alvarez of the Astros. Players from eight different countries will be represented in the World Series this year.


Furthermore, between 2012 and 2021, 56 of the 319 players selected in the first round of the draft were Black or African American, with a large percentage coming from MLB-led youth and amateur baseball development programs, according to Major League Baseball.

fishwax

(29,218 posts)
110. you're right about the number of players from often poor countries in MLB, but that is a separate
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 10:29 PM
Jun 2023

pipeline and a separate infrastructure. Youth baseball is really integral to the culture in those places. Not just organized baseball, but pickup games, etc. It used to be in much of the US, too, but that has changed over the last several decades. The players who come out of those countries aren't typically feeding into the college game, but rather starting out professionally.

In the US, college has become more significant as a feeder league to professional baseball than it used to be. (In decades past, the best players would more commonly turn professional after high school rather than go to college.) Even so, there are far fewer scholarships available in baseball than in basketball or in football, so for those looking to leverage athletic talent for a college education are going to have a harder time of it than those in other sports.

The infrastructure that feeds college baseball, however, is also different, and winds up being more expensive for the players. As others have pointed out, football is a more expensive game than baseball, but football programs starting in elementary and junior high school and continuing through high school are usually organized municipally or through a school, so the economic bar of entry for individual players is much lower. Basketball, too, is played at schools from elementary on. It costs basically no money for a kid to play organized basketball from a young age. (Those who show a talent and/or have an interest will likely also join traveling teams, but these tend to be less expensive than baseball traveling teams, and often memberships can be sponsored.)

Meanwhile, while there are a significant number of high school baseball teams (fewer than basketball or football, but still a large number), there are far fewer teams organized through schools at younger ages. There are municipal little leagues, but participating in a municipal league is more expensive than participating in municipal or school leagues for football or basketball, because you have to buy equipment in addition to any entry fees. (Baseball players have to buy their own gloves, for instance, but football players aren't usually buying helmets or shoulder pads.)

To add to that, the real pipelines to high school and college baseball are not primarily the local little leagues, but the traveling teams that start getting serious by the time kids hit double digits. And those programs are expensive, both in terms of the entry fees for players as well as in the additional equipment that players are expected to buy.

These factors, ultimately, (along, of course, with the decline in popularity of baseball relative to football and basketball in the last several decades) contribute to the sport's demographics in this country. Young Americans with athletic talent and interest and with limited funds in the United States are, from a very young age, going to find a more welcoming path to opportunity in sports other than baseball.

radius777

(3,702 posts)
116. Best post on this thread, helps to clarify the issue.
Mon Jun 5, 2023, 01:09 PM
Jun 2023

People are talking past each other because we're discussing two different issues:

(A) casual interest level among African-Americans for baseball as a sport, and the ability to watch it and play it casually (which may or may not lead to pursuing it professionally)
(B) the American infrastructure/pipeline for MLB, which affects American kids (of all races) who aspire to play baseball professionally.

For (A) there is no real cost barrier as anyone can watch baseball on TV (games have become expensive to attend in person, which is another issue) and anyone can play baseball/softball with second-hand/cheap equipment or even play wiffle ball - if they like the sport.

For (B), the situation you describe would indeed pose a barrier to those kids who come from poorer and minority families - which would affect black Americans. This clearly is a problem that should be addressed.

But what also is true is that (A) would affect (B). From what I've observed as a non-white in diverse NYC is that black Americans generally have low casual interest in baseball relative to other minority groups such as Carribeans, Latinos and Asians (American or non-American).

So while improving (B) may result in more black MLB players - it still may not help that much if (A) remains low.

 

Casady1

(2,133 posts)
15. I coached
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 06:59 PM
Jun 2023

Baseball. Look into travel baseball and see what it costs. Secondly, look at the cost of a “good bat” and the cost of a glove.
My brother also coached baseball and they used to pool money to buy 3-4 good bats for games.

 

Casady1

(2,133 posts)
21. Lol
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 07:13 PM
Jun 2023

If you spend $40 on a glove it is going to be plastic. I am talking about gloves when you reach 11 years old.

onenote

(43,404 posts)
47. But kids get into baseball and football before they're 11 years old
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 11:06 PM
Jun 2023

And the costs for outfitting a pee wee league football player are considerably higher than the costs of outfitting a similarly aged little league baseball player. The former still need complete uniforms, with helmets, shoulder pads, cleats, padded uniforms. The latter often play in t-shirts and sneakers.

brush

(55,250 posts)
39. Football is even more expensive to play.
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 09:55 PM
Jun 2023

Baseball has not progressed with times. Football and basketball market their stars, and frankly, they're more exciting to watch.

Baseball has never figure out how to make the game more exciting to watch. This year they increased the size of the bases, put in a pitch clock and stopped the infield shift. Too little too late..

radius777

(3,702 posts)
28. As others have said - it's about interest level not race or class when it comes
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 08:25 PM
Jun 2023

to the 4 major sports (baseball, football, basketball, hockey). If we were talking about golf and tennis then you'd have a better argument, but not when it comes to the major sports, which are generally accessible to all who wish to partake.

Many of the greatest baseball players in recent times have come from Latin American countries and poor backgrounds. Mariano Rivera is the only player in baseball history to have been inducted into the Hall of Fame with 100.00% of the vote - and he learned to play baseball with a milk carton for a glove while growing up in Panama.

African-Americans for whatever reason simply don't like baseball (or hockey) as much as basketball and football - whereas Afro-Latinos (such as many Dominicans) love baseball. Some Asian countries such as Korea and Japan also love baseball and have their own major leagues that are followed with as much passion as Americans follow our teams.

 

Casady1

(2,133 posts)
30. Caribbean players
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 08:41 PM
Jun 2023

Come from poor countries who want a way out. They are not a relevant in this discussion.

onenote

(43,404 posts)
48. How are they not relevant? The claim was the expense kept POC from playing baseball in the US
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 11:07 PM
Jun 2023

The very fact that so many kids in poor countries play baseball undercuts the expense argument.

onenote

(43,404 posts)
62. Yes. A very poor environment. Which undercuts the argument that cost explains the dearth of
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 10:30 AM
Jun 2023

Black American baseball players. Cultural factors, not expense, are the relevant factors.

radius777

(3,702 posts)
69. There are many poor countries in the world
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 12:11 PM
Jun 2023

and most of them don't like baseball. Latinos, Carribeans like baseball even when not poor. Wealthy Asian countries such as South Korea and Japan like baseball.

brush

(55,250 posts)
40. Latin and Asian countries don't have highschool ad college football.
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 10:02 PM
Jun 2023

If they did, many of their young athletes would be siphoned off to those sports. That's not hard to figure out.

Black players here have other options. And baseball, frankly, is kind of boring except for the playoffs. It never learned how to spice up the game because of it's hidebound adherence to it's rituals and records.

Basketball and football have both surpassed it long ago in fan and viewer appeal.

radius777

(3,702 posts)
41. Simply not true that baseball has lost appeal - it is 2nd behind the NFL
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 10:25 PM
Jun 2023

in terms of revenue:

https://blog.bizvibe.com/blog/largest-sports-leagues-by-revenue
Top 10 Largest Sports Leagues by Revenue in the World 2020
Which sport makes the most money in 2020? The following is a list of top sports leagues by revenue in the world as of 2020.
Sports League
Revenue (USD billions)
1 NFL 16
2 MLB 10.7
3 NBA 8.8
4 EPL 7.3
5 La Liga 5.26
6 NHL 5.09


and MLB franchises while not as valuable as most NFL franchises, have steadily increased in value (worth billions) and are highly sought after whenever one comes on the market:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes_list_of_the_most_valuable_sports_teams


Football and basketball are more popular amongst younger people, that is true, but when they get older and have families they tend to drift back to baseball.

As far as MLB being stuck in the past - again that is not accurate. MLB has made many changes (some radical) in recent years: DH in both leagues, challenge of calls, ghost runner in extra innings, pitch clock (games are much faster/shorter as a result), banning the shift, bigger bases, expanded playoffs, etc.


brush

(55,250 posts)
43. If you play 162 games of course you'll have more revenue...
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 10:33 PM
Jun 2023

even if the stadiums are nalf empty during games.

radius777

(3,702 posts)
66. And demand for baseball endures despite that long season.
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 11:42 AM
Jun 2023

Baseball has always been a marathon where only the top teams tend to fill stadiums (usually hold 50k people). The way teams make money these days is more from the TV/radio contracts, which tend to be lucrative.

Basketball faciilities hold 20k and have half the amount of games, and football only has 17 games - so of course they fill up, and with alot of folks who tend to just be there to 'see an event' and don't really care about the sport.

underpants

(184,049 posts)
29. That's why it's a favorite of white people.
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 08:30 PM
Jun 2023

Last years World Series was the first in 60 years without an American black player.

brush

(55,250 posts)
68. What do you mean? There are hardly any Black NHL players either...
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 12:05 PM
Jun 2023

or fans. That just a reality.

Takket

(22,154 posts)
76. exactly......
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 01:39 PM
Jun 2023

why is the NHL far and away the least popular of the major sports in the USA? If whites want to watch sports with no blacks in them, then it should be #1?

brush

(55,250 posts)
77. I don't quite get that logic. Hockey is Canadian origin and started with just 6 original teams...
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 01:46 PM
Jun 2023

had slow growth for decades, needs a frozen rink not just a field, glove/ball or a ball and rim, or great Black/POC athletes draws to get kids playing and watching.

It never had a chance to be as popular, even among just whites, as baseball, football or basketball.

It does have the best championship trophy ritual/history though.

onenote

(43,404 posts)
49. I doubt that many people distinguish between a Black player from the Dominican Republic
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 11:15 PM
Jun 2023

and a Black player born in the US.

Only one-third of the players on the Houston Astros were born in the United States.


Anyway, if your statement made any sense (and it doesn't), it would be hard to explain why so many white people love football, a sport in which more than half of the players are Black Americans.

 

Casady1

(2,133 posts)
55. In your opinion
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 09:11 AM
Jun 2023

I said that baseball is expensive and even ESPN said just the other day that it is pricing itself out from minorities. Ask any parent who has a kid playing travel how expensive it is on a yearly basis. It is year round with just the travel part is probably $5,000 and that doesn't include equipment and lessons.

onenote

(43,404 posts)
61. So is football. But minorities predominate in football.
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 10:28 AM
Jun 2023

It has more to do with cultural factors than expense. Which also explains why baseball remains popular in very poor countries, much moreso than football.

radius777

(3,702 posts)
67. +1. This argument that 'baseball is too expensive to play' is absurd.
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 12:05 PM
Jun 2023

I live fairly close to public parks and there are many people of all races who play baseball (and softball, which requires similar equipment) all of the time. When I was growing up (in NYC, and am non-white, family from the Carribean) my friends and I played wiffle ball, which just requires a plastic bat and plastic ball and two people to play. I come from a culture where people love cricket, so alot of such folks naturally take to baseball when they come here.

Some people can't cope with the idea that different groups have different tastes. Latinos and Asians tend to love baseball, as well as some American whites - whereas American blacks and non-American whites (ie from Europe) tend not to like baseball. The number one sport outside of America tends to be soccer. Canadians love hockey.

BlueWaveNeverEnd

(8,769 posts)
31. this quickly becomes a "Black poor" thread. Gymnastics and Ice skating is pricey for parents
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 08:48 PM
Jun 2023

yet Blacks are entering and participating at the top levels. Not all Black parents are poor.

sigh....

treestar

(82,383 posts)
56. Same was said about tennis and golf too
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 09:12 AM
Jun 2023

no black players because it was a rich guy's sport. But that has given way, too.

The whole premise is dumb. Kids play baseball in a sandlot - it's not expensive.

And true there are black women who are gymnasts and figure skaters!

onenote

(43,404 posts)
51. There's a lot of standing around in football.
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 11:34 PM
Jun 2023

For starters, you have a 12 to 20 minute half-time break (depending on whether its pro or college) where absolutely no football action occurs. There also are two minutes breaks between the first and second quarters and the third and fourth quarters. You have another 24 minutes of time outs (3 x 2 minutes for each team per half). The period between the end of a play and the start of the next play generally is 35 to 40 seconds and there are 150 or so plays (and there are several seconds between the end of each play and the start of the play clock). And then there are stoppages to review a play either based on a coach's challenge or in certain other cases, such as a fumble or a touchdown.

In baseball, there is no halftime, although there are 2 minute breaks between each half inning. There are fewer reviews of plays and there are around 300 pitches in a typical game, each pitch representing action (compared to the time a football team is in a huddle, which does not involve any action).

 

TexasDem69

(2,317 posts)
87. There's little real action in football
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 03:44 PM
Jun 2023

Compared to the total length of the game. A typical play is about 15 seconds, then there’s a huddle that is often longer than the play, then another play.

And while there may be more white players than minority in MLB, many of the top players are non-white. Acuna, Soto, Ohtani, Alvarez, Machado, Betts, etc. and these players make significantly more money than their NFL counterparts, have largely guaranteed contracts, and aren’t suffering from CTE at the age of 35.

 

AntivaxHunters

(3,234 posts)
50. There's some irony in this
Sat Jun 3, 2023, 11:23 PM
Jun 2023

Hi, HUGE baseball fan here & baseball card collector!

There's some irony in your statement.
Most players these days are snagged as soon as they're out of high school by MLB teams & then assigned to their minor league affiliates. Those are the good ones. And most are POC.

The guy's playing college ball? They missed the cut & most are white 😂
Of course some do get picked up in the draft but generally teams snag players when they're incredibly young. Jason Dominguez is a great example. He was picked up by the Yankees at age 16.

 

Casady1

(2,133 posts)
58. Your living in the past
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 09:20 AM
Jun 2023

even Barry Bonds went to college as did Jeff Bagwell. Many of today's starts went to college like Steven Strider of Atlanta nd Dansby Swanson.

Clemson and Vanderbilt respectively.
FYI, I have an original Lou Gehrig ticket stub from the July 4, 1941 memorial. I also have 16 signed team baseball from the teams in the late Forties with one ball from the last Cleveland championship team
I was in the St. Louis clubhouse in 1963 on Stan Musial night at the Polo Grounds. My brother and I have a signed baseball from Stan Musial to both of us with our names on it.

flvegan

(64,473 posts)
52. "Most minorities bypass the sport"
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 01:10 AM
Jun 2023

How? How do I reach this level of critical thinking failure?

MLB stats: It would appear that 62% are white. 37% aren't. It's lopsided for sure, but it doesn't support your OP.

onenote

(43,404 posts)
83. You keep saying that but you never explain why its a separate issue.
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 03:21 PM
Jun 2023

Costs are costs. And if its the cost that is preventing minorities from playing youth baseball in the US, why doesn't the cost have that impact in the Caribbean.

The reality is that its more about cultural factors than cost. Minority kids are playing youth football, and its not any cheaper than baseball in terms of equipment. Indeed, at the youngest level of the sport, football is significantly more expensive since pee wee football players still need helmets, cleats, shoulder pads, padded uniforms. Pee wee baseball players use inexpensive bats, share helmets, and wear t-shirts.

Buckeyeblue

(5,553 posts)
53. It is expensive but more about options and optics
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 08:10 AM
Jun 2023

When baseball had significantly more African American players (60', 70's and even 80's), the MLB was by far the most popular sport. And it paid the best. The NBA was rarely on TV before the 80's. NFL was a Sunday afternoon only sport. And was not all that interesting. Salaries for NFL and NBA players were not as high as MLB.

So kids grew up watching MLB games. Black kids in the 50's and 60' were able to see a significant amount of black baseball players play. And not just play, but dominate the game. That makes a difference.

As the NBA and NFL became more visible and more visible with the expansion of cable TV, they became more popular. And player salaries went up. And suddenly black kids were able to see black players dominate in football and basketball. TV on a mass level was a game changer. Also, college football and basketball also became exceedingly popular during this period. College baseball gets practically no attention.

The very top athletes won't be left off teams because they don't have the money. Coaches will find a way to get the costs covered. Do you think LeBron James' poor mother ever had to scrape together money for him to play?

Now, the real expense comes from average white players whose parents spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get them trainees, lessons, who pay to make sure they are on the elite teams, to make them an above average player. In these instances, the players that come from privilege, mostly white kids, will prevail.

 

Casady1

(2,133 posts)
60. There are scholarships
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 09:31 AM
Jun 2023

for basketball and football because they generate revenue. There are hardly any baseball scholarships. Secondly, baseball is more of a gamble than the other two sports. You have to go to the minors in baseball. Top athlete's by and large are not going to baseball.

 

TexasDem69

(2,317 posts)
85. There are 11.7 scholarships per team in college baseball
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 03:35 PM
Jun 2023

Not sure qualifies as “hardly any” but you do you.

underpants

(184,049 posts)
65. Excellent recap.
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 11:38 AM
Jun 2023

Friends of ours spent a lot of money and time in the elite soccer club near here. Good kid. Nice family. At least one weekend a month in 2 hotel rooms. Haven’t heard if he’s gotten any offers yet. Blew his knee out a couple years ago. I cringed for them when I heard the news.

I had a conversation with another father who’s daughter played on the same team as my daughter. He played D1 soccer. We watched this kid, a boy, score 5 goals against our team. He went off on a rant (between the two of us) about how USA soccer will never get to the next level if that kind of kid isn’t nurtured and received top flight training.

I was selected for a brand new select soccer program in the late 70’s. I was a big fish in a little pond. My mom said we can’t do it. Time. Travel. Money. A year later I went to a soccer camp and it was clear those kids (year round players at the time) were way above me. I played high school on the first soccer team the school ever had. We played on a spare field that dipped down at one end. Cow pasture field.

Buckeyeblue

(5,553 posts)
72. The kids are better now because of the training they get
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 12:42 PM
Jun 2023

I went to high school in the 80's. I look at how much more we know know about strength training and overall fitness now. Even nutrition. And kids start specializing at a young age. Just like the examples you provided. It's good and bad. I thinks sometimes the above average kids get a false sense that they are going to be great. The greats are born with a certain extra ability that the rest of us will never have.

Also, I don't think USA soccer will ever win on a world level because our best athletes don't play soccer. Imagine Michael Jodan if he had dedicated his life to soccer. Or LeBron James. Or Deion Sanders. I could go on. But these guys would have been bigger and faster than any of the European or South American teams.

underpants

(184,049 posts)
78. Red shirting and hockey players
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 01:50 PM
Jun 2023

Malcom Gladwell’s “Outliers” had a part about how no Canadian hockey player in the Hall of Fame at the time was born outside of the August to October (Sept- Nov?) period in a given year. The got drafted at 13 so the older kids in a given draft were necessary more physically developed than a kid born in the Spring. Those drafted got immediate better training equipment competition etc.

Some parents read this and “red shirting” became a thing. Starting a kid in kindergarten at age 6 instead of 5. Gladwell said he had no idea people would get that out of his book.

 

Casady1

(2,133 posts)
84. Honestly
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 03:23 PM
Jun 2023

our second rate athlete's play soccer. It is primarily upper middle class kids who play and they just are kind of mediocre athletes.

underpants

(184,049 posts)
98. That's the problem with our national soccer program.
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 05:50 PM
Jun 2023

There’s a base level on talent. Training takes them to another level.

 

Casady1

(2,133 posts)
100. My friend is very involved with
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 06:02 PM
Jun 2023

Personality tests for the NFL. This is a test that every NFL player has taken for the last 25 years.
He worked with one of the MISL youth teams. When they took the test they all did very poorly.
The highest score ever was Andrew Luck.

JI7

(89,651 posts)
103. It just has to do with lack of interest. Maybe there could be more effort
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 07:15 PM
Jun 2023

to reach out and try to get more diverse groups of people interested.

But it's not the case that there are people who want to play but don't becsuse of money.

Gymnastics didn't use to have many black girls but after Simone Biles many black girls are participating.

Sports is one area where Americans sacrafice a lot for their kids. People also do things like fundraising since sports gets more attention to help with finances.

You also underestimate the finances of minority communities.

uponit7771

(90,574 posts)
111. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 "reach out and try to get more diverse groups " is what multiple studies done by
Sun Jun 4, 2023, 10:32 PM
Jun 2023

... by payscale.com as a reason why c Suites are dominated by white males; board of directors are **NOT** reaching out to diverse groups.

No pipelining of diverse candidates (which is part of the "reach out" process you mentioned) no diversity ... end of story.

Same with MLB, they used to go to the high school I attended and give gloves and bats etc. ... no more and they're reaping the results

 

ExWhoDoesntCare

(4,741 posts)
119. How much more diverse do they need to be?
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 12:28 AM
Jun 2023

MLB has far more diversity in their sport than football, when it comes to the different groups amongst them.

They have far more Latin players than NBA or NFL.

They leave both of those leagues in the dust when it comes to Asian players.

The diversity isn't the problem. The problem is that NBA and NFL offer a chance at college that baseball traditionally hasn't, because baseball has had a well-established training program in place outside of colleges. So the need for baseball scholarships has always been low.

Kids are going to the sports their parents are guiding them into, and your average minority who comes from a poor family has parents who know that their child's best hope for a better life is not only the hope of pro sports riches, yes, but also getting a chance at college they might not ever have, otherwise. And those chances at a college scholarship are highest with NFL and NBA.

 

ExWhoDoesntCare

(4,741 posts)
117. Baseball isn't really all that expensive
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 12:13 AM
Jun 2023

Sure, compared to buying a football or a basketball, it costs more money...but there are plenty of costs with American football that are shockingly high in comparison to baseball: Pads and helmets are far more expensive than bats and balls.

So baseball isn't all that expensive in comparison. You can get decent bats for around $25, and those are often shared/passed down. The balls are around $3 at Wally World. As long as you don't lose one, you can play with it for a very long time.

The gloves, yes, those can be expensive. Still, leather ones are out there for around $20, and those will usually last for decades if you break them in and maintain them right.

Most American minorities can afford those things. Really.

Even poor kids can make do to play the game, if they want to play it. I worked with Dominicans at a former job. They used to chinwag about baseball and how they all played it as children. They did the group buys for bats and balls that got passed down through the years. The gloves are indeed on the expensive side, but, again, many get bought once, then handed down. For those without even that kind of money or access to a hand-me-down, many of the kids played with knitted versions their moms made for them.

When kids want to play something, they manage.

Baseball has plenty of minorities in it, and is well ahead of any of the others when it comes to recruiting foreign players. They have long had Latin and Asian players in their ranks--far more than either the NFL or NBA has ever managed. Their minority players get tons of respect as well. Jackie Robinson, for instance, is all but a god, even to non-baseball fans. As for the other minorities, name one Latin player in the NBA or NFL who has been as well-known and revered as Roberto Clemente. Or an Asian in either of those sports who was treated in as high of regard as Ichiro Suzuki was during his MLB heyday.

I'll wait.

No, I don't need to wait, because I know it's impossible to name the respected players of Latin or Asian origin or descent in the NFL or NBA. It's not even remotely close to what can be said of MLB.

A couple of things play into what makes NBA and NFL more attractive to kids these days. With NBA, getting to play for the pros at a very young age is more likely than with other leagues. Most of all, though, NBA and NFL offer a chance at college that most MLB programs don't get. Poor mothers will push their kids into what can help their kids most, and a college degree is it.

It's the MLB farm system itself, once their greatest asset, that is turning kids away from the sport. Because the farm system was well-established before the NCAA became such a big money-maker, college athletic programs have never offered as many scholarships as football and basketball. An entire baseball training ecosystem existed for decades to train and bring up players outside of colleges, so the college players became those who could afford to attend a college without as many chances at a scholarship as football and basketball offered. And that meant they were mostly white kids.

The college factor is what's really driving the lower participation of black kids in baseball. Not anything to do with the sport itself.

 

Snooper9

(484 posts)
120. um, not-
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 12:35 AM
Jun 2023

LOL-

Baseball is one of the top paying sports jobs in the US. If anything, they are recruiting players from other cities/counties/countries.

If you are a High School coach and you grab someone (anyone) to make a winning team, you may have future possiblities. Locally we have had "minor" scandels with parents selling their house to move to another district (bribe).

And if you want to discuss the majors first example... DR? Cuba?


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