The only nation not allowed to retaliate for a major terror attack

[ripcord]

Is also the only Jewish nation, interesting coincidence isn't it?

[ExciteBike66]

1. How many kids are they allowed to kill ripcord?

[Johnny2X2X]

3. They're not killing kids on purpose

They're mostly bombing empty buildings because their warnings have ensured innocents get evacuated. Where kids are dying it is because Hamas is using them as shields.

Hamas cannot exist after this, that's the only way forward, without Hamas. If Hamas wanted to save children they could hand over the hostages right now and lay down their arms.

[womanofthehills]

37. Go on Twitter and you will see the dead & alive babies being pulled out of the rubble with your own

Eyes. I would post it here but it’s probably too horrific for some to see.
Obviously a warnings to evacuate were a thing of the past.

Here is a sweet injured baby making the peace sign

Link to tweet

?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ

CNN -Israel gave Gaza hospital 2 hours to evacuate with patients still being treated, medical aid group says

Israel has given Al Awda Hospital in Gaza just two hours to evacuate, according to Doctors Without Borders, also known as Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).

The hospital, which is one of several that MSF supports in Gaza, was "still treating patients," the medical aid group said.

"We unequivocally condemn this action, the continued indiscriminate bloodshed and attacks on health care in Gaza," the organization added. "We are trying to protect our staff and patients."

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-news-hamas-war-10-13-23/h_805763aafe5be9c0e4c72bdbb2d45453 (The hospitals are filled with injured children - how do you move kids with severe injuries - or will these kids all just be bombed??

[Celerity]

44. like all these building were magically 'empty'

because their warnings have ensured innocents get evacuated

bollocks

as if 1.1 million could have evacuated in less than 24 hours from the hellscape that is now Gaza, a small strip of land that has daily ordinance now dropped on it that is more than the US dropped on all of Afghanistan in the last year of our occupation there (per MSNBC yesterday)

[Voltaire2]

46. Nonsense.

[ripcord]

7. So what is Israel supposed to do about terror attacks?

About the only thing left to them is a strongly worded letter, as long as the tone isn't too strong. Europe and the U.S. have no moral authority to tell Israel not to defend themselves after their actions in two world wars.

[former9thward]

18. Would you have been opposed to the civilian bombings in Germany and Japan in WW II?

They killed a lot of kids. And unlike the Israelis the U.S. did not give advance warning.

[obamanut2012]

25. Yes, I think Dresden and Tokyo were war crimes

I said taht here a few days ago, and was told Dresden was fine.

[intheflow]

38. Dresden was fine? Eyewitness Kurt Vonnegut says otherwise.n/t

[obamanut2012]

43. Yup, a DUer on this thread told me that

[Voltaire2]

48. Absolutely war crimes.

[NowISeetheLight]

29. The real question is...

How many kids will Hamas use as human shields to hide behind like gutless cowards?

[Calculating]

50. How many did we kill after 9-11?

Major terror attacks have consequences. I'll bet the people of Gaza aren't still cheering and passing out candy like they were after the attack.

[ripcord]

11. You seem to be forgetting that Israel was not the aggressor

But they are told, unlike every other nation to suffer terror attacks, that they will just have to live with it.

[Sogo]

30. Who is telling them these things?

Be clear!

[sarisataka]

31. Wow, straight out of the manual

Sad to see someone flame out

[BannonsLiver]

33. Yeah. I mean it's not like there are any examples in history that would make Israelis feel that way.

[NewHendoLib]

4. ???

[hlthe2b]

5. You know this level of hyperbole really doesn't help. And I know you know it is just that.

But, apparently, you are getting something out of it. Nothing constructive, certainly.

[obamanut2012]

9. I'm being implicated as being pro Hamas

And pro hostage taking in another thread because I fact checked something -- and I'm right.

wtaf

[hlthe2b]

16. I have experienced that as well, even though I start off nearly every post expressing my support

for Israel's efforts to defeat/decimate Hamas--just not absent considerations/ protections for civilian populations.

I don't want some of these discussions to go unaddressed, but I just can't keep wasting effort to counter those on this forum who seem determined to conflate, misrepresent, or use the most outrageous hyperbole to attack the community for even limited areas of disagreement or phrasing. I suspect you feel similarly. Unfortunately, the emotional triggers are not going to diminish for any of us anytime soon. And neither will the intentionally inciting OPs, it would appear.

Sigh.

[obamanut2012]

21. Same

After what just happened, I am done commenting, I think, because it is 100% against TOS to be attacked like this, but it is somehow A-OK.

[demmiblue]

10. +1

[DemocraticPatriot]

32. That was the first word that came to my mind upon reading the OP subject...

Hyperbole.

[liberalmuse]

6. Israel is retaliating

No one will be able to stop them from doing so. And even more innocent civilians will be killed than have been killed already and that will never be okay. No country on the planet, especially the US has the moral high ground here. The US has targeted millions of civilians in every war it’s ever participated in. Wars are started by those who have no problem sacrificing innocents in the name of whatever fucked up ideology they subscribe to.

[Lonestarblue]

8. The last I saw Israel is retaliating with a vengeance and doesn't care how many innocents die.

This conflict has very little to do with the Jewish religion and a lot to do with the occupation of Palestinian lands for decades. Few people condemn Israel for the religious beliefs of its citizens, but many do for the actions of its government.

[Johnny2X2X]

12. They are?

So the reports that they've issued warnings before bombings and they're giving civilians 24 hours to evacuated 10 miles to the South are all false? If that's the case then Israel should ask for a refund on the 6,000 bombs they've dropped, because they've only killed 1,500 people with those 6,000 bombs. If their aim was to kill innocents, that means that like 90% of the bombs they've dropped must be duds.

No other country is expected to take as much care when defending themselves as Israel is taking right now.

[Lonestarblue]

15. Every country is expected to avoid the war crime of killing innocent civilians.

The actions of opponents are no excuse.

[Johnny2X2X]

19. Israel is avoiding killing civilians as best they can

Hamas not so much. In fact Hamas ordered people to stay in the war zone rather than go to the South where they'd be more safe.

If Israel wasn't taking care to not kill civilians, this war would already be over, they could completely decimate Hamas in a week if they didn't care that in doing so they'd be killing 300,000 civilians or more. Israeli has superb intelligence in Gaza, they know where Hamas is hiding, they know where their weapons caches are, but they can't take them out without killing civilians en masse so they're warning first and now they're doing the only thing that will work, going in on the ground.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

35. Minimize

Quite different than avoid.

[lostnfound]

42. Doesn't that just tell Hamas to evacuate too?? How is that effective, militarily?

Usually advanced countries who are attacked respond by bombing military bases, airbases. weapons depots, warships, and strategic supply lines.

Well, actually, the US incinerated Shitamachi in Tokyo which was just one big incinerator for 100,000 mostly women and children.

So I got nothing to say. Whatever Israel is likely to do won’t be worse than that.

[FBaggins]

47. One correction

Usually advanced countries who are attacked respond by bombing military bases, airbases. weapons depots, warships, and strategic supply lines.

That isn't because advanced countries only attack military targets. All civilized countries (advanced or not) are expected to target the enemy's military facilities. The difference isn't in the relative "advancement" or morality of the attacking army. The difference is in the targeted enemy. Advanced/civilized/moral countries do not co-locate those legitimate military targets with their civilian population. The rules of war actually require this. They're supposed to be protecting their civilians (it's what militaries are for).

The moral soldier tells the civilian to "get behind me" so that the enemy can't get to you without going through me. The immoral soldier puts the civilian in front of himself (perhaps even at gunpoint) - so that the enemy can't hit him without going through the human shield. Then he blames the enemy for killing the civilian when the fault is entirely his own.

[NoRethugFriends]

14. Maybe try reading Hamas' charter, then try to make your statement again.

[Raven123]

20. Hamas could have offered to return the hostages, but did not.

To be clear, Israel was going to go after Hamas regardless, but this particular path MAY have been avoided. The problem I see ( and like most, I can see little clearly) is that the longer they wait to respond, the more likely Hamas can organize and disperse the hostages.

[Arazi]

23. Hamas is launching bombs on Tel Aviv as we speak

Hamas isn’t stopping or giving up on their murderous assault

[Raven123]

34. Israel knows Hamas and is responding accordingly

The tragedy for the innocents is that they have nowhere to go.

[Behind the Aegis]

13. "Jews Don't Count" and "People Love Dead Jews"

Both are excellent books and worth the read. I highly recommend both!

[Arazi]

22. I'm not even a member of the tribe and this shit is nauseating

Looks like many folks have certainly read your fine book suggestions

Hang in there friend

[hlthe2b]

24. You know where people congregate that believe that abysmal BS? NOT HERE.

Yet, from some of the discussions, you'd think all of DU had converted to being antisemitic --and murderously so, at that. Perspective is increasingly lost here it seems.

Those forces are certainly out there in this country and beyond--and on the increase. That said, ALL would benefit by uniting to counter it. I'll just leave it there. sigh...

[obamanut2012]

27. +1

[Behind the Aegis]

39. Yet, some IS here.

As a Jew, I actually am aware of anti-Semitism, even from the left. Frankly, what I see is more people whining about anti-Semitism being levied against them and using it as an excuse to avoid difficult topics and a way to lecture Jews and keep us in our place.

[hlthe2b]

41. Rather than unite the many of DU to fight antisemism in every way, you prefer to focus on rare few?

Despite the true and increasing threats of the same outside this community?

Many here have reacted to incite and divide by unleashing accusations and denunciations for every inarticulate wording or phrase. This, despite this community having had 22 years of a record of majority who do not have proved that they do not tolerate antisemitism and are here to unite against the same. Would that not be a better focus?

[Disaffected]

17. What new nonsense is this?

A silly, incendiary assertion it is.

[maxsolomon]

26. Hyperbolic straw man fallacy. They're allowed to retaliate.

The US retaliated mightily after 9/11. There were a tiny pacifist minority saying that was the wrong course - but no one expected that there wouldn't be retaliation. Where a greater number started to disagree was over the proportionality or the method.

When we continued to retaliate for 9/11 in 2003 by attacking Iraq and turning it into a 20-year bloodbath, did you question that strategy? I bet you did.

Israel is perceived as the stronger of these 2 sides. There's also an assumption that they are more "civilized" side, and that they should adhere to international law. Perhaps that's because we expect Judaism to guide moral choices?

In the face of Hamas' terrorist atrocities and murder, that goes out the window. That's human nature. I expect Israel to drive Gaza into the sea, and I think that's exactly how most human societies have reacted to intolerable provocations since the beginning of time.

[Sogo]

28. What do you mean, "not allowed?"

They certainly have already been retaliating with bombings and cutting off of supplies to Gaza and have major plans to do more, i.e., hundreds of thousands of troops on their border with Gaza, plus they've warned Gaza citizens to flee.

[Raven123]

36. I think the poster is commenting on those who have criticized Israel's response

I could be wrong

[qwlauren35]

40. Me personally...

I think they are well within their rights to retaliate, and the "everybody get out of the way" was more than the Hamas deserve.

Me personally, again, I think people are going to get hurt when you have to go after terrorists, because they embed themselves among the civilians. It's dirty, it's sad... it's war.

Yes, *more* people are going to die. Lots of people died on Saturday.

Hamas knew it was starting a war. Maybe THEY should have warned their people.

[Voltaire2]

45. Huh? Israel has consistently retaliated.

[scipan]

49. Not allowed by who?

I'm not seeing that here on DU. Maybe a couple posters.

By who???

Israel*must* retaliate.