Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

maxrandb

(16,533 posts)
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 01:11 PM Mar 2024

The media and pollsters haven't learned. It may just kill us all.

Last edited Sun Mar 3, 2024, 03:07 PM - Edit history (1)

I served almost 30 years in the United States Navy. During my time, I served under Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II and Obama.

I disagreed with the policies of some of those presidents, even the Democratic ones. It didn't matter. Sometimes my political side of the argument would win. Sometimes it didn't, and that was OK. You just worked harder and voted harder the next election.

Even at their worst, I never believed that any of those presidents would destroy the fabric of America, burn our Constitution, try to remain in office through violence, or turn America into an unrecognizable authoritarian, fascist hellscape.

We now have a presumptive nominee of one major party that has done, and promises to do all of the above.

The media and pollsters continue to treat this as if it's a contest between Kerry and Bush.

They are still stuck on covering and polling the race as if it's a normal contest between a lower taxes, less regulation and social programs Republican, and a slightly higher top marginal taxrate, protect our environment, provide for the common good Democrat.

There is NOTHING normal about this

The only norm that has not been shattered is the media's and pollsters insistence to treat it normally.

Pollsters continue to run on the norm that this is a popularity contest about issues. Really? Can anyone tell me what Donnie Dipshits economic policy is?

If you didn't know who Hitler was, it would be perfectly normal to ask; "Who do you feel will be better for the economy, Hitler, or candidate X"?

But we do know who Hitler was. We have evidence of what he did.

If he were still alive, would it be acceptable for a pollster to frame a question as; "who do you trust more on immigration policy, Hitler, or candidate X"?

Sometimes candidates lie about their opponents. Kerry's military service was lied about by Bush advocates. Bush' cocaine and possible drug abuse was highlighted by Kerry advocates.

Here's the glaring difference. Neither Kerry's military service, nor Bush' drug use WAS ADJUDICATED in a court of law. There was no video of Bush bragging about snorting coke.

Donnie Dipshit has been found liable for sexual assault by a jury of his peers.

Donnie Dipshit has been found by a court of law to have committed fraud to the tune of half-a-billion dollars.

Donnie Dipshit has been indicted by 4 GRAND JURIES in multiple jurisdictions on 91 felony counts.

That his MAGAt fan base don't care about those facts, doesn't mean these FACTS shouldn't be included in poll questions.

Seems to me the question that should be asked is not; "who do you trust more on the economy, candidate X or candidate Y?" It should be; "who do you trust more on the economy, the adjudicated rapist, fraudster, 91 time indicted candidate X, or Candidate Y"?


31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The media and pollsters haven't learned. It may just kill us all. (Original Post) maxrandb Mar 2024 OP
been voting since mcgovern oldinmtdem92 Mar 2024 #1
THIS ! Tribetime Mar 2024 #2
The media has driven most of this from Reagan's True Blue American Mar 2024 #3
The US has only two viable political parties. markodochartaigh Mar 2024 #4
I live in Florida. Crazy has been the normal for forever. Marcus IM Mar 2024 #5
This IS exactly what the Koch brothers, Crowe and other Bluethroughu Mar 2024 #6
Unfortunately, the 'media' knows exactly what they're doing. rubbersole Mar 2024 #7
You outlined many of the reasons I switched broadcast "news" off in 2004 Warpy Mar 2024 #8
Frank Zappa prescient today maxrandb Mar 2024 #9
Dipshit and republicans in general get the white man pass BaronChocula Mar 2024 #10
Been going on since richdj25 Mar 2024 #11
I just gave the same white man pass reply in another thread BaronChocula Mar 2024 #12
Presidential elections is the Super Bowl for media d_b Mar 2024 #13
"Joe Biden is old and needs to retire" Earth-shine Mar 2024 #14
Terrific post PCIntern Mar 2024 #15
Thanks. It just infuriates me maxrandb Mar 2024 #16
K&R. Spot on post! Evolve Dammit Mar 2024 #17
Kick orangecrush Mar 2024 #18
This. mn9driver Mar 2024 #19
I don't understand it maxrandb Mar 2024 #28
Fabulous MOMFUDSKI Mar 2024 #20
teevee gnewz don't give a fuck about democracy. just ratings. pansypoo53219 Mar 2024 #21
Nicole Wallace gets that right. SouthernDem4ever Mar 2024 #22
You see what capitalism produces? FAILURE, yet you keep on doing the same stupid thing!! Stargazer99 Mar 2024 #23
Indeed. Also, I still don't buy that these polls are completely legit and not props to LymphocyteLover Mar 2024 #24
I think your problem is more with the American people. All Mixed Up Mar 2024 #25
That even 10% support TSF disgusts me maxrandb Mar 2024 #26
I think our biggest concern is that despite everything, half the country is still willing to give him a second chance. All Mixed Up Mar 2024 #27
M$M and Pollsters don't believe they'll be affected by a Benedict Donald administration ... this time. uponit7771 Mar 2024 #29
dupe uponit7771 Mar 2024 #30
K&R spanone Mar 2024 #31

oldinmtdem92

(48 posts)
1. been voting since mcgovern
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 01:29 PM
Mar 2024

never thought we would be in a mess like the one the republicans have made.

True Blue American

(18,497 posts)
3. The media has driven most of this from Reagan's
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 02:17 PM
Mar 2024

Shining city on a hill while he did everything he could think of to tear the country apart. Made worse with a corrupt Supreme Court that put Bush in office by one vote. His lying us into a 20 year war .

A few good years after Obama cleaned up the Bush recession. Then idiots elected Trump. Now thw Supreme Coourt is leaning towards letting an indicted ex Preisent on 91 counts free.

markodochartaigh

(2,719 posts)
4. The US has only two viable political parties.
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 02:24 PM
Mar 2024

One of these parties is no longer committed to democracy. The choice is no longer between (Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Romney) Republicans and (Johnson, Carter, Clinton, Obama) Democrats. The choice is between a party which is not committed to democracy and anyone else. Some Republicans are saying this, although with their usual projection they cast the Democrats in the role of subverting democracy. But it is only in the last few months that the media has started to allow the truth to be mentioned. And, of course, the Republicans have already poisoned the narrative by blaming the Democrats. I wonder by November what percentage of the US non-Republican electorate will realize that we are voting on whether to continue democracy in the US.

 

Marcus IM

(3,001 posts)
5. I live in Florida. Crazy has been the normal for forever.
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 02:30 PM
Mar 2024

Participating in S Fla politics has long been just like the crazy we're seeing spreading the nation like measles in Fla.

Bluethroughu

(7,196 posts)
6. This IS exactly what the Koch brothers, Crowe and other
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 02:48 PM
Mar 2024

Billionaire psychopaths bought from the Republicon party. Chaos.

If I were the Department of Justice, I would have kicked in their doors a long time ago. The Seditious Conspiracy has been out in the open for at least a Decade. They hate Democracy and bought the party of low morals and decency for cheap. Ask Clarence and his insurrectionist wife to explain.

Warpy

(113,270 posts)
8. You outlined many of the reasons I switched broadcast "news" off in 2004
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 03:02 PM
Mar 2024

never to return. It's not journalism. It's infotainment for morons.

You want journalism and to be at least semi informed, try reading online newspapers and don't just read the ones in the US. Thaks to the British Empire, there are English language newspapers all over the globe, usually some form of "Times." If you read any other languages, so much the better.

If you're waiting to be spoon fed current events from the monstrosity on the living room wall, you'll be waiting forever.

maxrandb

(16,533 posts)
9. Frank Zappa prescient today
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 03:16 PM
Mar 2024

"I am gross and perverted
I'm obsessed and deranged
I have existed for years
But very little has changed

I'm the tool of the Government
And industry too
For I am destined to rule
And regulate you

I may be vile and pernicious
But you can't look away
I make you think I'm delicious
With the stuff that I say
I'm the best you can get
Have you guessed me yet?
I'm the slime oozin' out
From your TV set

You will obey me while I lead you
And eat the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we don't need you
Don't go for help, no one will heed you

Your mind is totally controlled
It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold

That's right, folks
Don't touch that dial

Well, I am the slime from your video
Oozin' along on your livin' room floor
I am the slime from your video
Can't stop the slime, people, look at me go
I am the slime from your video
Oozin' along on your livin' room floor
I am the slime from your video
Can't stop the slime, people, look at me go

BaronChocula

(2,657 posts)
10. Dipshit and republicans in general get the white man pass
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 03:23 PM
Mar 2024

The white man pass is America's gift to white men, particularly those who stand in favor of preserving white privilege. That's what the republican party stands for and that's why they get the WMP. Thanks to an establishment including news media and pollsters who are are congenitally afraid and complicit, we have this SNAFU of normalizing white people gone wild.

richdj25

(202 posts)
11. Been going on since
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 03:49 PM
Mar 2024

Plymouth Rock, yet so many will deny it ever existed.

I keep thinking about if a crowd of Black-lives-matter protesters woul had stormed the Capitol on Jan 6th, a whole lot of dead bodies would had been spewed about. Any one left, including leaders would be in jail, serving 20, 30 year sentences.

Trump, the GOP, Dems and many others would had cheered their deaths.

BaronChocula

(2,657 posts)
12. I just gave the same white man pass reply in another thread
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 03:53 PM
Mar 2024

The title of the thread is "Why is trump getting special treatment from the supreme court."
Ummmmmmmmm...

 

d_b

(7,463 posts)
13. Presidential elections is the Super Bowl for media
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 04:21 PM
Mar 2024

It’s big money and requires engagement, which they’ll get at any cost. As Trump is a toxic lunatic Nazi rapist, media will do all they can to make him competitive, and that means tearing down his opponent.

“Joe Biden is old and needs to retire or he’ll keep raising the cost of your groceries” will continue 24/7 until doom improves.

 

Earth-shine

(4,044 posts)
14. "Joe Biden is old and needs to retire"
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 05:24 PM
Mar 2024

They say it because they got nothing else on this fine president!

maxrandb

(16,533 posts)
16. Thanks. It just infuriates me
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 07:34 PM
Mar 2024

TSF sexually assaulting a woman is NOT an accusation! It's a FACT.

TSF committing fraud to the tune of half-a-billion dollars is NOT an accusation! It's s FACT.

This is not George W. Bush questioning Kerry's patriotism. This is NOT President Obama questioning Romney's commitment to the Middle Class.

A jury of his peers found that TSF sexually assaulted a woman.

A judge, 100s of hours of testimony and millions of documents proved that TSF committed fraud.

4 separate Grand Juries in 3 separate jurisdictions, reviewed 1000s of hours of testimony, reems of documents and 1000s of hours of video tapes and indicted him on 91 felony counts.

These are COLD-HARD-FACTS!

Failing to include these FACTS in any poll question is the worst form of bias.

mn9driver

(4,713 posts)
19. This.
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 09:06 PM
Mar 2024

Treating Trump like a normal candidate may be the last mistake the supposedly free press will ever get to make. This isn’t a fucking horse race. It is the survival of our constitutional government.

maxrandb

(16,533 posts)
28. I don't understand it
Fri Mar 8, 2024, 09:55 AM
Mar 2024

Do they think that they are the one media outlet he won't destroy?

Do corporations and billionaires think they are the ones that will escape the chaos and the fascism?

Have they built their Ayn Randian utopia somewhere and plan to ride out the end of America there?

Maybe they think he'll accelerate the Rapture and they'll be eating milk and honey while the world burns.

It just makes no sense to me.

pansypoo53219

(22,144 posts)
21. teevee gnewz don't give a fuck about democracy. just ratings.
Mon Mar 4, 2024, 12:11 AM
Mar 2024

the golden SQUIRREL is ratings gold! WEEEeeeeeeeeeee

SouthernDem4ever

(6,618 posts)
22. Nicole Wallace gets that right.
Mon Mar 4, 2024, 07:24 AM
Mar 2024

She repeats his crimes and charges before his title every time.

Stargazer99

(3,187 posts)
23. You see what capitalism produces? FAILURE, yet you keep on doing the same stupid thing!!
Mon Mar 4, 2024, 08:29 AM
Mar 2024

There has to be a better system but those who benefit by the capitalist system will fight you the common man tooth and nail so you suffer. What makes you think when money owner that owns and controls the media that they are going to be honest and cut their profit? Oh boy do I have a cheap Brooklyn Bridge for you to invest in

LymphocyteLover

(7,879 posts)
24. Indeed. Also, I still don't buy that these polls are completely legit and not props to
Mon Mar 4, 2024, 08:34 AM
Mar 2024

generate news

 

All Mixed Up

(597 posts)
25. I think your problem is more with the American people.
Mon Mar 4, 2024, 10:24 AM
Mar 2024

It's easy to blame the media but really that's just a lazy argument. Trump isn't some unknown new guy here. This isn't 2016 where I think this argument would hold more weight.

I think a whole lot of you have to concede that Trump is exactly what half this country wants. I'm not sure why people continue to refuse to accept this.

We had four years of Trump as president. The fact he very well may be the favorite to win again isn't because the media framing. It's because his extreme policies seem to appeal to a huge chunk of the country.

It's clear at this point more Americans are okay with that than they are okay with the current status quo being offered by Biden.

maxrandb

(16,533 posts)
26. That even 10% support TSF disgusts me
Mon Mar 4, 2024, 10:55 AM
Mar 2024

But I don't give the pollsters a pass.

Pollsters seem to have zero problems asking questions about age. I get it. President Biden is a whole 3 years older and a million Big Macs short of TSF

Pollsters are "obviously" concerned about age. Maybe they should be concerned with other topics as well.

To give us a "truer", more "accurate" snapshot of the race, I suggest they include the below questions on their next survey;

- How "rapey" is too "rapey" in a president?
A. A little rape is OK
B. I find rape to be disqualifying
C. Grabbing women by their hoo-haa is just locker roomy, but being found liable by a jury is too much

- What should the president have done if the January 6 mob got their hands on Mitt Romney and Nancy Pelosi?
A. Had their broken bodies hung from a DC bridge like a scene out of Felugia.
B. See if Vlad has room at a Siberian prison.
C. Pardon the MAGAts that killed them.

- Should the $150K to bribe a porn star come from:
A. The Social Security Trust Fund
B. Medicare
C. Campaign donation to the RNC

- Should the president's son-in-law receive $2B from:
A. Russia
B. Saudi Arabia
C. What about Hunter?

- How much real estate fraud is acceptable in a president?
A. $450M
B. $450M + interest
C. Any amount as long as he hates the gays.

These and many other questions would better reflect the reality of the contest.

I am kind of afraid to ask these questions, because if the pollsters oversample red state english only speakers, TSF might have a slight lead.

 

All Mixed Up

(597 posts)
27. I think our biggest concern is that despite everything, half the country is still willing to give him a second chance.
Mon Mar 4, 2024, 11:11 AM
Mar 2024

If 1/6 didn't disqualify him, then what you're writing doesn't matter.

The truth is that Biden's age is only an issue because people are not happy with the state of the country. Inflation, gas prices, housing, a shaky foreign arena with Russia and the Middle East only seem to feed into that narrative: he's too old to handle the responsibilities of the job.

Is it fair? No. But it's not not unique.

If inflation never spiked, gas prices never ballooned, there was no Russian invasion of Ukraine and Israel wasn't attacked on 1/6, Biden's age probably wouldn't be an issue and Trump's crimes would be a bit more disqualifying.

But people are willing to overlook the criminality of his administration just as long as their pocket books are doing well. And for millions of Americans, they believe things were better under his leadership.

It sucks but Americans vote with their pocket book.

Biden has to figure out a way to show Americans are better economically with him as president because at least for 40% don't care if Trump is a crook. He's a crook who gets things done in their eyes.

Worse, there are people I know who HATE Trump, won't vote for him, didn't in 2016 ir 2020 but are so turned off by what is happening in Gaza that they've flat-out told me that they won't vote Biden and if that means Trump wins? Oh well. Both are awful on Gaza but at least under Trump they could afford rent.

The real enemy is the ignorance of the average voter. I asked what Trump specifically did that made rent affordable and they point to the rental pause in 2020. Despite my pointing out that was due to a massive pandemic, they don't care.

uponit7771

(92,766 posts)
29. M$M and Pollsters don't believe they'll be affected by a Benedict Donald administration ... this time.
Fri Mar 8, 2024, 10:05 AM
Mar 2024
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The media and pollsters h...