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kimbutgar

(21,946 posts)
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 04:58 PM Mar 2024

Did you know that by executive order in 2017 The orange maggot loosened regulations on aircraft manufacturing

And allowed them to self regulate on a range of manufacturing and safety issues?

I saw this meme today and researched it myself and sure enough I found a Forbes article backing up this claim. This article is from 2019.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisagarcia/2019/03/18/did-trump-executive-orders-further-weaken-faa-oversight/?sh=347eec843ca7

The Ethiopian Airlines crash has raised questions over the degree of oversight by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) on Boeing’s development of the flight control system for the 737 MAX.

While these questions are valid, it’s important to note that the FAA has been mandated to give more control over to aviation organizations, including manufacturers, over the years. Two Executive Orders signed by President Donald Trump, that require the FAA to cut regulations further, may have tipped the balance by diminishing FAA authority and focusing the agency on working against its principal aim.

The weakness of this approach becomes apparent, as most systemic failures do, in unforeseen circumstances, such as the current scrutiny into the certification of a flight-control system on the Boeing 737 MAX that is suspected to have played a role in two deadly crashes. It's too soon to say to what degree closer oversight may have addressed any failure modes in the 737 MAX MCAS, but the FAA was acting within its policies and procedures by accepting Boeing's proof of the soundness of the system.

Bottom line, the FAA has been ordered to back off industry and is now being investigated for backing off by the same people who issued the orders. The requirement that the FAA delegate more of its oversight responsibility to industry was imposed on the FAA years ago, but it has more recently intensified with direct orders to undo the regulatory framework developed over many decades, following learnings from deadly accidents.

He signed this Executive Order 13771 In 2017

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13771

President Biden rescinded this order on January 21,2021 but think of those planes manaufactured during 2017-2020!

Another thing we can blame the orange maggot on!






37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Did you know that by executive order in 2017 The orange maggot loosened regulations on aircraft manufacturing (Original Post) kimbutgar Mar 2024 OP
Republicans hate regulations. Emile Mar 2024 #1
Until BonnieJW Mar 2024 #9
They would blame the hourly laborer at Boeing. Emile Mar 2024 #10
Right after they blame Biden. nt Wednesdays Mar 2024 #26
So true! Emile Mar 2024 #27
So do little kids who are only interested in getting their own way. calimary Mar 2024 #29
A big kick from me pandr32 Mar 2024 #2
There is no limit, no bottom. yorkster Mar 2024 #3
Yes I do Arthur_Frain Mar 2024 #4
Kick and rec. Kingofalldems Mar 2024 #5
started with ronald raygun. dereglation is good for u. AllaN01Bear Mar 2024 #6
It started long before that, in 1958 when the FAA was first created. Ocelot II Mar 2024 #15
It went into WARP speed DENVERPOPS Mar 2024 #28
Trump did the same thing with trains. nt SunSeeker Mar 2024 #7
Why not? It worked so well for railways. (Sarcasm). Pepsidog Mar 2024 #8
Rachel@msnbc.com lindysalsagal Mar 2024 #11
When the FAA was first created in the '50s it was given a "dual mandate," which was Ocelot II Mar 2024 #12
President Biden rescinded this order on January 21,2021 patphil Mar 2024 #13
This should be all over the news every time a Boeing aircraft has an accident yliza Mar 2024 #14
You don't trust the honor system? JoseBalow Mar 2024 #16
K&R bdamomma Mar 2024 #17
OOOOOOOOOOH! I'm gonna write an ask about this!!! calimary Mar 2024 #18
Anything he can do to decrease costs... dchill Mar 2024 #19
The sad part is Mr.Bill Mar 2024 #20
Get the ads going malaise Mar 2024 #21
Get the ads going malaise Mar 2024 #22
What a mess made by the menace, Trump. Joinfortmill Mar 2024 #23
K&R. Thanks for this post. Another item not reported by MSM with any vigor. c-rational Mar 2024 #24
Kick dalton99a Mar 2024 #25
Good find, kimbutgar SpankMe Mar 2024 #30
Thank you also for your post ! kimbutgar Mar 2024 #32
Many corporations actually write the regulations then hand them to their congressman or Senator Cheezoholic Mar 2024 #31
Wow thank you for your enlightening post about legislators passing laws written by companies that should kimbutgar Mar 2024 #33
same with meat processing plants and food safety EleanorR Mar 2024 #34
I notice there is more food processing recalls nowadays. kimbutgar Mar 2024 #35
The Ethiopian Airlines crash was not caused by anything Boeing did jmowreader Mar 2024 #36
Just after take off when the angle of attack indicators malfucntioned and activated the MCAS system Cheezoholic Mar 2024 #37

yorkster

(1,950 posts)
3. There is no limit, no bottom.
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 05:06 PM
Mar 2024

He/they will do anything it takes to placate big donors, stay in power, you name it.

Arthur_Frain

(1,911 posts)
4. Yes I do
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 05:09 PM
Mar 2024

I also recall during the shrubs tenure, he gutted whistleblower protection within the FAA.

I remember on both occasions thinking that this will not end well.

Ocelot II

(117,805 posts)
15. It started long before that, in 1958 when the FAA was first created.
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 06:45 PM
Mar 2024

The airlines were also financially deregulated. The Airline Deregulation Act was passed in 1978, during the Carter administration. It was intended to keep national commercial air travel competitive by prohibiting states from regulating airlines' prices, routes or services.

DENVERPOPS

(9,309 posts)
28. It went into WARP speed
Sun Mar 17, 2024, 01:30 PM
Mar 2024

During Reagan's (occupation) of the White House......HW Bush and his cronies committed Treason to put Reagan in there.
HW and all his cronies were running the nation, not Ronnie. They were wiping out all regulations and organizations that stood in their way of getting back to the "GILDED AGE"...... They were the ones who began the PNAC in 1997, twenty years before 1997.......

Ocelot II

(117,805 posts)
12. When the FAA was first created in the '50s it was given a "dual mandate," which was
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 06:38 PM
Mar 2024

to promote both aviation safety and the airline industry. But after the ValuJet crash in 1996, the FAA took heat for allowing cost-cutting to jeopardize safety, and the Federal Aviation Act was amended to remove the dual mandate and instead make safety FAA's sole focus. Trump effectively undid that change, and now we're paying for it. You can't let any industry regulate itself; inevitably profits will become more important than anything else. I thought that lesson was learned almost 30 years ago but apparently not. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/etc/cronfaa.html

yliza

(80 posts)
14. This should be all over the news every time a Boeing aircraft has an accident
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 06:43 PM
Mar 2024

Although I suspect all we’d hear is why it’s Biden’s fault

calimary

(82,704 posts)
18. OOOOOOOOOOH! I'm gonna write an ask about this!!!
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 07:03 PM
Mar 2024

We already finished my Indivisible group’s Call to Action email for the coming week, but this’ll give me a head start on the next one!

dchill

(39,232 posts)
19. Anything he can do to decrease costs...
Sat Mar 16, 2024, 07:13 PM
Mar 2024

...while elevating death rates is another jolly for His Royal Anus.

SpankMe

(3,076 posts)
30. Good find, kimbutgar
Sun Mar 17, 2024, 03:10 PM
Mar 2024

I was aware of general reductions in FAA oversight for aviation and commercial space launch (as well as loosening of DoD oversight of space launch safety on Air/Space Force ranges). But the referenced articles lay it out really well for the aircraft part.

SpaceX (Muscovite) has been flouting Range Safety requirements at Cape Canaveral and Vandenberg SFB since they started launching. DoD has not been using much of its teeth to get SpaceX back in line because the government wants to promote commercial space. Since Musk is one of these give-them-an-inch-and-they'll-take-a-mile guys, this slight backing off by DoD has resulted in SpaceX pretty much doing whatever they want.

Rarely mentioned in all this is the fact that Boeing moved their HQ from Chicago to Washington, D.C. (Arlington, VA) last year, right next to the Pentagon. All they want is defense business because of the bottomless pit of DoD money that congress shovels their way.

My hypothesis (uneducated guess): In letting their aircraft operation turn to shit, and quietly relocating their HQ to the Pentagon's front lawn, Boeing is gradually making moves that will see it divesting itself of commercial aircraft altogether and will become a pure defense contractor. Boeing is ceding global commercial aircraft manufacturing leadership to Airbus.

I don't know of a US entity rich enough to buy Boeing's commercial aircraft division, and I don't think the government will allow any foreign ownership of Boeing's commercial airplane division. But something big is afoot, methinks.

kimbutgar

(21,946 posts)
32. Thank you also for your post !
Sun Mar 17, 2024, 03:45 PM
Mar 2024

It makes sense Boeing wants to leave the commercial aviation market and get unlimited money from the government with defense contracts.

Cheezoholic

(2,233 posts)
31. Many corporations actually write the regulations then hand them to their congressman or Senator
Sun Mar 17, 2024, 03:43 PM
Mar 2024

to take to the floor for a vote. It's been going on for a long time. A lot of corporations are self regulating already to a point. There are many infractions or failures that companies are required to write up to explain what happened, provide lessons learned and what they will do to resolve them themselves before a federal regulatory entity ever gets wind of it, if ever. Especially corporations that do contract work for the government.

I have a friend that works for a subcontractor that goes through and makes sure defense department subcontractors are upholding their end of whatever subcontract they have with the government and if he finds an issue he sends it up the chain in his company and those above him determine if the violation needs to be immediately submitted to another larger company that is subcontracting for the government and has several smaller companies like his subcontracted to do the certain kind of work his company specializes in. or if the subcontractor in question can supply reasoning for what appears to be a contract violation and if they can't what they are going to do to fix it in order to satisfy the terms of the original contract. The issue could be with the company in question or with companies it may be subcontracting with and those companies could even be subcontracting with other companies as well.

For a long time the FAA and NTSB have had a similar procedure for when a company finds defective part in the field by a mechanic/technician who a lot of times is working for a subcontractor of the owners of the aircraft (many of the airlines don't "own" the aircraft, they lease them like you would a car) be it the airline or the company leasing the plane will be notified. Whichever or if both are notified, depending on contract rules and federal regulations if its of a high enough severity level in their subcontract then either the aircraft builder (i.e. Boeing, Airbus etc) or the subcontractor who built that specific or group of parts for the builder, or the NTSB/FAA, like I said depending on the reporting requirements of the severity of the defect of the part is notified.

At some point every defect makes its way to the NTSB/FAA but it could be a year or two if the defect was determined in the myriad of contracts not to be of a severity level high enough and/or a "proper" fix was put into place to eventually show the NTSB/FAA it was resolved. One break in this huge bureaucratic chain and you get a space in a fuselage "plugged up" where a door once went on an aircraft being ridiculously stretched to its limits for profit blows out. Spirit Aero Systems (whom Boeing spun off their production line) who build the fuselage for the MAX not having any paper work AT ALL showing that the bolts holding that door plug in were inserted is , well, just fucking nuts. What's even more nuts is the interviews I've seen with the NTSB/FAA say it was a failure of redundant testing and inspection, not that the people responsible for putting those bolts in the first place had to WRITE IT DOWN SOMEWHERE! That's 2 or 3 levels of fuck ups on one thing That's a lot.

Anyway, depending on severity level of a defect, if the responsible party at the top, which could be any level once again depending on severity levels and rules usually set forth by the FAA /NTSB(back to square one where corporations usually write the rules and regulations)
the part or system is either repaired replaced, whatever it takes to satisfy the next level up the chain, job done.

This may not be 100% correct but, from my experience of knowing someone who owns a small machine shop that is subcontracted to make a few different widgets originally for Boeing but now subcontracting for another company subcontracting for Spirit Aero, some of the shit hes told me, and many many years working under federal guidelines for every kind of radiology equipment from manufactures to what the Radiologists use, and how hard it is for a small company to get a new idea approved as a medical device and how easy it is for a huge corp to get approval to sell some really shitty stuff it's fucking crazy. The fact anything works with this many humans touching shit is a fucking miracle to me. Especially when the big corps. hire K street to write the shit (not just rules either, but laws) they want and get it inserted directly into our rule and law making processes without the American people even knowing it because its buried so deep in all of that other bureaucratic shit.

Makes me dizzy

kimbutgar

(21,946 posts)
33. Wow thank you for your enlightening post about legislators passing laws written by companies that should
Sun Mar 17, 2024, 03:49 PM
Mar 2024

Be regulated!

EleanorR

(2,425 posts)
34. same with meat processing plants and food safety
Sun Mar 17, 2024, 04:01 PM
Mar 2024

This is their wet dream. They don't want any government regulations on businesses.

"President Trump has been trying to undo even that modest progress. His administration last year authorized faster “line speeds” (the number of animals killed per minute) for poultry plants, and began looking into doing the same for beef. New U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) regulations that take effect in December will allow the same at pork plants, while also cutting 40 percent of government inspectors and delegating inspections to employees, who may not have undergone any kind of training in food safety."

https://newrepublic.com/article/155363/trump-meatpacking-processing-plant-rules-upton-sinclair-jungle

kimbutgar

(21,946 posts)
35. I notice there is more food processing recalls nowadays.
Sun Mar 17, 2024, 04:08 PM
Mar 2024

I rarely buy beef or chicken that is processed by big corporations like Tyson!

jmowreader

(50,848 posts)
36. The Ethiopian Airlines crash was not caused by anything Boeing did
Sun Mar 17, 2024, 04:12 PM
Mar 2024

It was caused by the pilots not reducing power after they took off. If they would have backed out of the gas when they were supposed to, they wouldn’t have driven a perfectly good airplane into the ground.

Cheezoholic

(2,233 posts)
37. Just after take off when the angle of attack indicators malfucntioned and activated the MCAS system
Sun Mar 17, 2024, 08:34 PM
Mar 2024

and they started to get stick shake with MCAS trimming the aircraft down the pilots initial reaction was to apply power and push forward as instruments were falsely indicating a stall condition and he was doing what you do to correct a stall. As they did that MCAS continued trimming the plane to a nose down attitude. In the cockpit voice recorders the young first officer can be heard telling the captain to kill the MCAS system, which they finally did. That stopped the continous pitch down from the stabilizer trim tabs from increasing anymore and bought them a few precious seconds to try and correct what was going on. The voice and data recorders showed they both were trying to spin the trim wheels backwards to alleviate the nose down attitude and ever increasing speed. They both could be heard trying to pull back on the yoke at the same time but the trim tabs had been set so far in a pitch down condition by the MCAS system, the yoke itself was unable to overcome the nose down attitude of the aircraft. The Captain can be heard saying its not enough (pulling on the yolk) so as a last resort they re-engaged the MCAS system hoping it would help them trim out the aircraft, but it was the killer and put them back to square one as it resumed its pitching the aircraft downward until it hit. Velocity actually contributed to the fate of their situation.

Boeing, the owners of those aircraft were responsible in both incidents involving the new MCAS system, the NTSB/FAA in 1, and it was all to save money and the foolish trust by the regulator that the owners and manufacturers found a way to satisfactorily remedy the issue.

Greed combined with the companies ability to have undo pressure on the regulators by rules and laws they get to write for themselves as I wrote in my post above, was the cause of those accidents straight up.

A fairly detailed discussion of the cause of the Ethiopian Airline accident, and an absolute flagrant under the breath attempt by Boeing to blame those pilots because they were African and didn't know what they were doing, is in the Frontline special on Boeing and the MAX that just re-aired this weekend. Feel free if you haven't.....

Edit: Simply bringing the power back to even idle would not have stopped that suicide software.



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