GOP Warns Of Shutdown Over Filibuster

[Purveyor]

By MANU RAJU | 11/25/12 1:02 PM EST
A partisan war is brewing that could bring the government to a screeching halt as early as January — and no, it’s not over the fiscal cliff.

It’s all about the filibuster.

Democrats are threatening to change filibuster rules, in what will surely prompt a furious GOP revolt that could make those rare moments of bipartisan consensus even harder to come by during the next Congress.

Here’s what Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is considering: banning filibusters used to prevent debate from even starting and House-Senate conference committees from ever meeting. He also may make filibusters become actual filibusters — to force senators to carry out the nonstop, talkathon sessions.

Republicans are threatening even greater retaliation if Reid uses a move rarely used by Senate majorities: changing the chamber’s precedent by 51 votes, rather than the usual 67 votes it takes to overhaul the rules.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/84195.html#ixzz2DHCFczSA

[DJ13]

1. Good, shut it down (with appology to Chef Ramsey)

Having that much power in the hands of the losing minority is a bastardization of our political process, and we would be better off with Congress shut down than to see more Republican bills passed.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

75. Shut it down!

[DJ13]

77. Great movie!

I had forgotten that scene.

Perfect.

[valerief]

2. The GOP will do that, because there's a clear mandate from American citizens

to uphold the filibuster rule just as it is.

Right.

[TeamPooka]

3. Good luck with that GOP. Let's see how you spin it to the people right before

the inauguration.

[RC]

4. Sounds good to me.

Now if only the Democrats would talk about Republican treason and being traders against the American people. You know, speak truth to the Republican corruption and racism?

[Mr. Mojo Risen]

5. They need more things to be outraged over

Lets get this fast tracked.

[madinmaryland]

6. Give em hell, Harry!!

[kiranon]

7. I remember when filibusterers had to filibuster on the floor of the Senate.

Let everyone see who is holding up legislation and discussion and let them make their arguments over and over or read the telephone book (if they still exist) for hours and hours.

[Ligyron]

9. Yes!

We were told in Civics Class that this was why it was rarely invoked, usually as a brief protest or to draw attention to some issue.

Now it like phoning in a bomb threat.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

39. +1 nt

[Auntie Bush]

80. Remember Sanders actually filibustering all day on the floor...no one even there listening?

[HiPointDem]

88. +1

[BlueCaliDem]

96. That has never been a part of the filibuster rule.

Just because some Senators wanted to grand stand (Strom Thurmond, so his racist base could see how he tried to stop the Civil Rights Act) for political gain, it's not a requirement to filibuster. Majority Leader Reid wants to change that so we can see who is holding it is filibustering.

[Ruby the Liberal]

8. Elections have consequences.

Let them show their collective asses.

Go get 'em Harry.

[jody]

10. This will be interesting since it brings to the fore state rights protected by the Tenth Amendment

as addressed by Jefferson and Madison in their Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions.

[ashling]

69. I respectfully disagree

How do you see this involving states "rights" - or more actually, state

powers

(states don't have rights, only people do) Jeff. and Mad. were talking about nullification of federal laws - this is about the rules of one of Congress and is not protected by the Constitution.

[jody]

98. Senate is the ultimate expression of states in the federal government since each state has equal

votes, California's 37+ million citizens have two senators as does Wyoming's 500+ thousand.

You object to using the term "state rights" but Jefferson used it to describe each state's right to nullify laws passed that were unconstitutional.

Jefferson said in the Kentucky Resolution:

Resolved, that the several States composing the United States of America, are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their general government; but that by compact under the style and title of a Constitution for the United States and of amendments thereto, they constituted a general government for special purposes, delegated to that government certain definite powers, reserving each State to itself, the residuary mass of right to their own self-government; and that whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force: That to this compact each State acceded as a State, and is an integral party, its co-States forming, as to itself, the other party....each party has an equal right to judge for itself, as well of infractions as of the mode and measure of redress.

If a state does not have the right to nullify unconstitutional laws as Jefferson and Madison believed, then no citizen has any unalienable rights as a sovereign individual and all power is vested in a totalitarian central government.

IMO that would abandon the last vestige of a government created by We the People who loaned a central government some of our authority and powers as sovereign individuals.

Abraham Lincoln said "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it."

Ulysses S. Grant made a similar statement "The right of revolution is an inherent one. When people are oppressed by their government, it is a natural right they enjoy to relieve themselves of oppression, if they are strong enough, whether by withdrawal from it, or by overthrowing it and substituting a government more acceptable."

[union_maid]

11. Go for it, Harry Reid

Filibuster if it's all that important to you. But do it for real.

[ladjf]

12. Shut it down! nt

[Volaris]

51. Damn Straight shut it down.

The last time the GOP actually tried that, the American People held them accountable, and punished them by re-electing Bill Clinton, so, basically, yeah, I DARE them.

[dflprincess]

78. The Republicans in Minnesota shut the state government down in 2011

and earlier this month the people of Minnesota gave Gov. Dayton a DFL legislature.

Shut it down - it can only help us in 2014.

[CakeGrrl]

13. Bring it.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

14. GREAT! Shut. It. Down. n/t

[truebluegreen]

15. Bring it.

[99Forever]

16. A threat to shut down the government if they...

... can't shut down The Peoples critically needed work getting done?


That about it, assholes?



Go for it, you fucking traitors. We'll get to work recalling your worthless asses.

[NashvilleLefty]

17. WRONG! They are suggesting making a filibuster

a real filibuster! You know, where filibusters are rare and they are for something substantial.

If Republicans don't like the way that filibuster rules are going, they have no one to blame but them selves for abusing them.

[Liberalynn]

41. +1

[Gregorian]

18. They abused it to avoid bipartisanship in the first place. The people need a functioning Congress.

Change it. They got their way by bending the rules. It's time to straighten it out again.

[Buns_of_Fire]

19. Sure, go ahead, pubbies. It's not as if we'd see much difference, anyway.

You've been (over)paid for doing nothing for the last four years, why start doing anything constructive now? So be my guest in making your party more irrelevant than it already is. But keep one thing in mind: we ARE paying attention, we ARE keeping track, and we ARE taking names.

[Canuckistanian]

20. Good!

All Harry Reid has to do is point out that the procedures are reverting to "traditional" times a la "Mr. Smith goes to Washington" and people will REALLY realize how obstructionist the GOP is being.

NOBODY is suggesting taking away minority dissent. This is about a minority blocking ANYTHING they don't like without public discussion

[AAO]

35. +10000

[neverforget]

21. So they're not going to change? Shocking!

[Doctor_J]

22. they already shut it down with the fillibusters

don't back down, Harry

[Mr. Sparkle]

23. It is a bit late to threaten shutdown, when they have already shut down the Senate.

am I the only one who can remember the last 4 years ? shesh

[Egalitarian Thug]

24. I so hope the Democrats make a stand here and broadcast the hell out of it.

We need a BFD showdown with a firm stand to shake people out of their complacency.

[ballaratocker]

25. Call their bluff

They are whiners. Every time they get hit, they cry like the bullies they are. Make 'em read out the phone book.

[The Wizard]

66. Make them all put on

Depends diapers and talk until their diapers are full.

[Festivito]

26. Someone with backbone and courage need be on TV saying they abused filibuster to ruin US economy.

But, there's no such thing in DC.

1. They have to say Republicans abused it...

2. ... and why they abused it.

Bumper sticker style.

[Purveyor]

60. It sure the hell won't be Harry Reid. Disgusted that a discussion could even be had of changing

our party leadership in both the House and Senate.

[2naSalit]

27. At least it has been noticed to some degree

but, as mentioned above, there needs to be so much more...


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1838700

[progressoid]

28. OK.

[socialist_n_TN]

29. As far as I'm concerned, a bad law in the name of "compromise"......

is still a bad law. I'd rather see nothing happen than a bad law happen. To me, THAT'S pragmatism that's worth doing. Now, if the Dems want to benefit POLITICALLY from it, they would call them out on it. But if it keeps a bad "grand bargain" that hurts the working class and leaves the capitalist class raking in the dough, then I'm fine with shutting down the government.

[blackspade]

30. Reid should take them up on it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. And if that doesn't work, are they going to hold their breath till they turn blue? n/t

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

87. We can only hope.

[David__77]

32. I favor making talking during the filibuster required.

That seems entirely reasonable. If they want to obstruct, then they better at least put on a show. That shows commitment in any event.

[LoisB]

33. Shut it down!

[yardwork]

34. "Elections have consequences." Bring it.

[marlakay]

36. I just saw Lincoln I want them to be like then

god at least they weren't hypocrites! They called each other slimy names to their face! no censure, no i am sorry.

I know people may like our pretend gentleness but i think its better to be truthful and open and honest. Say what you really think about a issue. Back then they forced the issues…

[Heather MC]

37. And yet people who actually work for a living don't make squat.

unbelievable and typical with all that needs to get done these numb nuts are going to fight over their right to not do shit. wow! can I go into work tomorrow and filibuster the day away? no not if I want to stay employed.

[Kablooie]

38. Government will be shut down for 2 more years if they DON'T change the rules.

A threat is only a threat.
They HAVE to change it if the government is to work at all.

[Sirveri]

91. It'll be shut down for two years no matter what, GOP has the house.

[SoapBox]

40. Yes...do it...let the Pukes and Baggers shut stuff down...

Just like they always do.

And while we are at it, let's do the Thelma and Louise cliff thing!

...we need some fresh starts as it stands anyway.

[defacto7]

42. We've been on the defensive for years...

Time to kick their asses, Harry!

[Turbineguy]

43. They should go ahead and shut down the government.

Sure it's stupid, but it's the repubs so it's OK, right? The teabaggers will love it until their government bennies stop coming in the mail.

[bluestate10]

57. SS and Medicare recipients will be hurt by this. But the majority of those people voted for

republicans. I hate to say it, but it is about time those voters get a taste of exactly what they voted for.

[cantbeserious]

44. Harry - Send Those Boys Scrambling! - Shut The Senate Down!

eom

[lonestarnot]

45. Just do it. Mid-terms aren't that far off in the future.

[NV Whino]

46. And so the gridlock begins

Or is it, continues?

[Marr]

47. If Democrats don't change the filibuster rule, it's because they WANT

the Republicans to be able to block things in order to give them political cover while pushing corporate legislation.

[bluestate10]

48. Don't negotiate with terrorists. Filibuster rules have been grossly abused by republicans.

The filibuster must be changed to make democracy work.

[Roland99]

49. "Up or Down Vote!!" - Every Repuke during Bush's admin

fucking hypocrites

[lapislzi]

65. Some of us WERE awake between 2002 - 2006

Remember when the GOP threatened to eliminate the filibuster altogether? Now it's their best friend.

Short memories.

[Roland99]

92. Exactly! So, I say....

Let's Dance!

[WheelWalker]

50. Bring it.

[krispos42]

52. bring it on

It's already effectively shut down anyway. hundreds of good bills did annually in the Senate because of obstruction, as do hundreds of judicial and executive branch nominees.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

53. Shut er down!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

54. Make em read War and Peace on the Senate floor.

And a few Michener novels. And Dostoyevsky.

[sarcasmo]

55. Like little kids who didn't get what they wanted at the store, throwing a tantrum.

[liberalmuse]

56. Go for it, GOP.

I want to see your entire party sink into the mire, never to resurface again.

[SariesNightly]

58. Change the rules back to 51 instead of 67

please!

[bvar22]

59. Oh NOOO! Game Over.

The Republicans made a threat.
Looks like we have to cut Social Security and give the RICH another Tax Break.
It is the only sensible thing to do.
We can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Time to surrender again.
<sigh>

[underthematrix]

61. Phuck the GOP. I think the Dems were elected to trake

care of the people's business and if filibuster rules need to change to make that happen so be it.

[The Wizard]

62. A non stop talkathon

discussing the details of Mitch McConnell's military "discharge" would be enlightening and amusing. McConnell might even Hara-kiri on the Senate floor. Republicans are an offense to Democracy. They can go eat shit and bark at the moon.

[Panasonic]

63. Fuck the Republicans.

It's time to lay down the law of the land.

No more filibusters at all. The Republicans have abused it. The only acceptable filibuster if they are ordered to stay on the floor during the filibuster and a simple 51 majority can break it.

The House-Senate committees should be disbanded in favor of the Senate, and reject any Republican House bills that are not acceptable to the Democrats.

[Cali_Democrat]

64. Good. shut er down baby....shut er down

[John2]

67. So

what do the Republicans have in mind of shutting the Senate down? I would like to know the procedure that they can pull this off? And if all the Republicans decide not to come to work, I believe that we can accommodate them with absentees. The less of them showing up for work the better. Maybe we can get something done.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

68. The republicans should cease to act like babies

[bluestate10]

70. Reed must call those treasonous motherfuckers out. nt

[annabanana]

71. Don't changes in the rules on the first day require just 51 votes?

All he has to hold is his own caucus?

Am I wrong?

[Coyotl]

72. Break out the Depends

cuz you are going to have to stand up there and talk and talk and talk

[Zorro]

73. Reid should offer to change it to 55 votes vs. 51

and see if any Republican gets on board with that.

[Still Sensible]

74. It might be worth considering

because if this gets passed (at 51) there is a very good chance the GOP will pick up enough seats in '14 to change it back with 51... I certainly want it changed to reduce gridlock, but OTOH, at 55 it might still leave judges being held off forever. I also wonder, with the house in solid GOP hands, all the other gridlock will remain and, except for confirmations, this change wouldn't be all that much of an immediate improvement. In any event it will be interesting to see the politics play out.

[jeff47]

86. Why on earth would they change it back?

When they have the majority, they want no filibusters.

[spanone]

76. i hope they go for it, america is tired of their shit.

[Whisp]

79. that soft spoken Harry is a pistol.

yay for him.

[quakerboy]

81. Cause they were going to cooperate on anything significant

or meaningful? Like they did last time?

Blow it up. Bring it. Its either fight over the this or have a completely dysfunctional senate. Again.

And yeah.. Someday the senate will flip r again, and this will be in force against us. As it should be. A filibuster proof majority can be elected by something like 10% of the populace, given the way the senate elections work.

[B Calm]

82. About fucking time! K&R

[Tigress DEM]

83. Go Harry. Make them work for their absurd obstructionist ideals. nt

[cherish44]

84. Sometime down the road if THEY ever retake the Senate...

They'll be all for the filibuster reform, especially if the Dems start using the filibuster the same way...And I wouldn't blame the Democrats one bit if they did..(hey GOP, what goes around comes around, fuckers). Start working together like grownups and use the filibuster as it was INTENDED to be used and none of this discussion would be necessary.

[Zambero]

85. Oxymoron

A shutdown is being threatened over changing the existing rules that allow the legislative process to be shut down.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

95. Three Cheers for Irony!!! (nt)

[Kennah]

89. Bring it, Teabilly Fucksticks!

[FVZA_Colonel]

90. Gingrich's "movement" collapsed over a shutdown.

Doing it over a move to end relentless obstructionism would only have worse consequences for the GOP.

[Thav]

93. Wait, the GOP are threatening to repeat the last two years if the filibuster rules change?

If the rules change, they'll stonewall and be partisan in everything. If they stay the same... they'll stonewall and be partisan in everything.

I'm not seeing a problem here. Change the filibuster rules so things can actually move through congress.

[Beartracks]

94. What - They won't be able to phone in a filibuster...

... from the golf course or from their lobbyist's office???

---------------------

[ChisolmTrailDem]

97. Here’s what Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid...

...is considering: banning filibusters used to prevent debate from even starting and House-Senate conference committees from ever meeting. He also may make filibusters become actual filibusters — to force senators to carry out the nonstop, talkathon sessions.\

"is considering" and "he also may". Weasel words. Show me something or shut the hell up.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

99. It's not complicated. No actual filibuster = Reid can order the Senate's business to proceed.

[sulphurdunn]

100. They are essentially

demanding minority veto power or else.

[Puglover]

101. Tough shit.

I'd love to lick the bitter tears from their cheeks. End it.

[Samantha]

102. The Bush Tax Cuts in 2001 and the renewal in 2003 were passed through reconciliation

Both times only 51 votes were required. 51 votes. The original Bush Tax Cuts were passed with a vote of 58 to 33. The second time in 2003 was much more controversial because of the ongoing wars but it passed by a vote of 51 to 50. How is that possible, you ask. Cheney cast the deciding vote to break the tie.

Passing a controversial piece of legislation by 51 votes is smart politics when Republicans do it. But when Democrats do it, Republicans react in anger with threats of retaliation and bringing the government to a halt.

Okay for Republicans but not okay for Democrats. See the difference?

Sam

[Arcanetrance]

103. Them throw a temper tantrum and shut the goverment down cause they didn't get their way.

You don't say. But in all seriousness what's it the other side ways likes to say elections have consequences time to swallow the pill repubs

[Veracious]

104. DO IT! HARRY!

Republicans have abused the filibuster for years now its time to change the rules so the senate can function.

[x2 vancouverite]

105. You lost, McConnell

Obama has his second term, you racist asswipe. Now retract back inside your turtle shell and shut the fuck up!

[Javaman]

106. LOL with 380+ faux filibusters to their credit...

what else can they do? Give us the stink eye? They already have shut it down.

He repukes, go scratch.