2012: The year we discover proof that we're not alone?

[VioletLake]

What would happen if signals were discovered elsewhere in the galaxy, similar in form and content to the signals we have been inadvertently and purposely transmitting for almost a century?

What if those beings also dominate and kill each other?

Would the public be told about the discovery, or would it be kept secret?

Would you be in favor of saying hi, or leaving well enough alone?

[jeff47]

1. I'm not in favor of saying "hi"

The distance means that no meaningful conversation could take place over radio. And if they have the technology to get here, that may not work out well for us as a species. The lower-tech civilizations on Earth did not fare well when higher-tech civilizations discovered them.

[MisterP]

9. Angkor and Srivijaya came out quite okay from their Chinese influence

if you're thinking of the Americas, that was mostly disease and tremendous good luck on the Spaniards' behalf (civil wars, Tlaxcalans, existing infrastructure and nobility to coopt)

a great book is Eric Wolf's "Europe and the People Without History" on the on-the-ground effects of European colonialism in Sri Lanka, Malaya, Ontario, West Africa, etc., before the 1850 surge in both armaments and imperialism

the "space as ocean" metaphor shouldn't be pushed too far

[jeff47]

18. It's about the severity of the negative outcome

If there's a very low probability of an extremely bad outcome, it's still a bad idea. And our planet's history shows it's not a very low probability.

Some alien species may have a more 'enlightened' view in how to treat us savages. Or they might decide to slaughter us all so they can strip-mine the planet.

That second outcome is so bad that even at a low probability, it's not worth the risk. And I'm really not so sure that evolution would produce too many benign civilizations in the galaxy.

[MisterP]

23. well, aside from the Kissingerian "Realism" informing this instance of the precautionary

principle, if the aliens needed metals or labor there's a century of radio signals for them to follow (then again, there's not too much within 100 ly)

NASA even did a study on all options, including how we could be a threat to them:
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1104/1104.4462.pdf

[cstanleytech]

41. But on the other hand if they have the ability to travel here and to other worlds they might

consider doing something like we humans have done to varies civilizations as beneath them and barbaric though personally I am of the belief that if any such civilizations exist and know of us that they decided we are to immature as a species to bother communicating with.

[HopeHoops]

2. We've already fucked up ONE planet. Why fuck up another?

Besides, the Thermians think our transmissions are "historical documents".

[Stinky The Clown]

3. We have the perfect forum for this topic

Creative Speculation.

Feel free to repost there.

[Stinky The Clown]

4. I am going to unlock this this thread

There was some discussion about it after the lock. There is a pretty evenly divided view of it. In light of that, the thread is open again for discussion. I am posting this both explain the unlock and to kick the thread backup to the top.

[The Straight Story]

6. Thank you:

[greyl]

38. Good unlock, though I'm not a GD Host. nt

[MineralMan]

5. With all the new planets they're discovering,

there might be such a signal at some point. However communications, even within the galaxy would be very slow due to the light-year-quantity distances. Even more, physics, as far as we understand it now, will make physical travel impossible. Still, it would be interesting to know, and is worth continuing study.

[Hugabear]

13. Not necessarily

Physics prohibits traveling faster than the speed of light - but there are some physicists who now believe it may be possible to get around that by altering the very fabric of space itself - such mechanisms include things like wormholes, "warp bubbles", etc.

Pretty fascinating stuff if you want to read up on it.

Still, a species would have to be extremely advanced to do something such as that.

[RKP5637]

34. Yep, and a species that advanced might well have very very little interest

in this outpost. My gut feeling is earth is already known. To me, we tend to measure the universe relative to our own understanding ... but given some other standards, we are probably very very primitive.

[Neoma]

43. I heard...

A theory that you can't travel faster than light because of light itself. We could be traveling in the dark!

[The Straight Story]

7. I would say hi, and I think the public would be told

Or at the very least it would be leaked somehow.

If they are bad as the human race at things it would be a pity, but maybe we could both learn from the experience.

[chrisa]

8. Maybe, but not necessarily creatures that advanced

It could be bacteria, or planets of just creatures that roam the forests, etc., and don't build anything.

[The Straight Story]

10. I think we may have a lead on where Middle Earth planet is:

[trueblue2007]

39. what a cool picture. A HUGE EYE!!!!

[TeeYiYi]

12. Or they could release the dogs...

...or the bees.

Or the dogs with bees in their mouths, and when they bark they shoot bees at you ...

TYY

[unapatriciated]

22. or maybe they just want to share their recipes.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. I'll leave our answering machine on in case they call.

[Spike89]

14. Sure, I'd say hi

I do have some thoughts on the assumptions inherent in your OP:

Although the "purposeful" signals we've been sending are likely to penetrate relatively deep, even they are unlikely to remain coherent beyond a sphere that holds very few other stars. The popular myth that our low-power broadcast television and radio signals go out "forever" isn't remotely true. We can't know for sure, but estimates say our current best broadcast messages probably remain coherent for 30-40 light years before background noise, dust, and other factors would make it all but impossible for our best receiving technology to "prove" that the signal was artificial. Those old "I Love Lucy" episodes are nothing but randomized space noise by now.

What if those beings also cooperate and love each other? I guess I just don't get the hate humanity vibe. Yeah, we can be asses, but we aren't rabid dogs pausing from wholesale slaughter only long enough to dominate and rape enough to overpopulate the world.

Even if we did establish contact, and assuming that "they" had a means of travelling here, there is virtually no invasion scenario that makes an iota of logical sense. The only conceivable value that might make interstellar contact worth a fraction of the effort is information/knowledge. Sharing info is always worth the risk, why else would I brave the internet?

[spanone]

15. if they are intelligently supreme, they would have the sense to stay the fuck away from humans

[Hugabear]

16. There's absolutely no reason to think that human behavior would be unique in the universe

That is, there's no reason to think that other civilizations wouldn't be just as aggressive, or perhaps even more so. It would be incredibly naive to think that an advanced civilization capable of interstellar flight must be benign or peaceful.

A space-faring civilization might look upon us as little more than insects, and have no qualms about wiping us out. It's even possible (likely even) that interstellar travelers might be completely mechanical, and see our solar system as nothing more than natural resources to be scoured.

Of course, it's also entirely possible that they could be completely benevolent, might welcome us with open arms, offer to teach us their technologies, etc.

Basically, reaching out to a true alien civilization would be the ultimate gamble.

[RKP5637]

35. Pretty much what Stephen Hawking has said too ... basically, beware.

[cstanleytech]

42. I kinda doubt the whole " offer to teach us their technologies" would happen.

Our world just isnt ready nor is it mature enough to handle it if its stuff thats thousands or millions of years more advanced than what we have currently.

[gratuitous]

17. SOMETHING has to explain Mitt Romney

He's not human as far as I can tell . . .

[DeathToTheOil]

19. Or Cindy McCain

[opihimoimoi]

20. Tis the year of REASON....its upon us with positive Polarity... +

[Motown_Johnny]

21. how would you know they dominate and kill each other?

Finding signals that are artificial and understanding the meaning within those signals (assuming there is meaning there) are two very different things.



http://seti.berkeley.edu/kepler-seti-interference

^snip^



Why are these signals interesting?

We know these signals are interference, but look similar to what we think might be produced from an extraterrestrial technology. They are narrow in frequency, much narrower than would be produced by any known astrophysical phenomena, and they drift in frequency with time, as we would expect because of the doppler effect imposed by the relative motion of the transmitter and the receiving radio telescope. Even though these signals are interference, detecting events with similar characteristics to what we expect from ET is a good indication that the first steps of our detection algorithms are working properly.

What's next?

These first results are tests of the algorithms we'll apply to all our observations of Kepler planets. During the coming weeks, we'll be posting more of our results as we process the nearly 50 TB of data we collected in early 2011.

[cherokeeprogressive]

24. I, for one, would welcome our new... wait. n/t

[joshcryer]

25. Sara Seager did a wonderful SETI talk on finding habitable exoplanets:

She says, if I recall correctly (it's been a little while since I watched) that we'll find an exoplanet in the habitable zone within 3 years or so. And we'll detect whether or not those planets show signs of life (an oxygen rich atmosphere of a low mass high density planet is a very good indicator, since oxygen just oxidizes everything it touches).

[Ecumenist]

26. I say, as I have in another forum, why doesn't those who have the information

photos, testimonies, files, etc, be released by all the countries that have them simultaneously onto the Net. That would show a skeptical world that WE ARE NOT ALONE, trust me.

[Fumesucker]

27. What TPTB do is promote it first as a conspiracy theory..

Then as a movie script..

After that they can do whatever they want and no one will even notice.

I suspect that alien communications will be discovered, if ever, serendipitously, out of neutrino telescopes or gravity wave detectors or perhaps some kind of bizarre quantum entanglement communications device or something as yet undreamed of.

[HipChick]

28. In 1980...This psychic predicted a black president in 2008, and first contact with aliens in 2012

[frogmarch]

29. Here's what

I think about it.

Astronomers would scramble to confirm the authenticity of the signal, and if the signal was determined to be from another planet they’d contact reporters and eventually hold a press conference. The government wouldn’t have any say in the matter, since gov’t officials don’t hang out with astronomers and would be out of the loop. If SETI had any say about it, the astronomers, before contacting reporters or holding a press conference, would first notify the U.N., important world leaders and people who donate a lot of money to SETI, but the astronomers might not follow SETI protocol, and just get the news out there.

It might take a long time for scientists to not only verify that the signal was from another planet, but also to decipher it, maybe even years. Until the signal was deciphered, we wouldn’t know what it says. I’d hold off on making big signs to hold skyward that say HELLO FROM EARTH and COME SEE US SOON, HEAR? until I knew what the signal said. The senders of the signal might not have our best interest at heart. Or they might be long dead, and in that case, making signs would be a silly waste of time.

[cyberpj]

30. Ahhh... Is someone else watching Morgan Freeman's Through The Wormhole shows today?

Just checking.
This one was on in my area today:

Are We Alone?
.Aliens almost certainly do exist. So why haven't we yet met E.T.? It turns out we're only just developing instruments powerful enough to scan for them, and science sophisticated enough to know where to look. As a result, race is on to find the first intelligent aliens. But what would they look like, and how would they interact with us if we met? The answers may come to us sooner than we imagine, for one leading astronomer believes she may already have heard a hint of their first efforts to communicate.

http://science.discovery.com/tv/through-the-wormhole/episodes/are-we-alone/

[Rosco T.]

31. What makes you think they haven't heard something already?

Hrmmmmm?

[neverforget]

32. Sure as long as it's not these guys

[LetTimmySmoke]

33. There's already a species like that discovered.

It's called Homo sapiens.

[RKP5637]

36. Yep, is that ever true. Often I think WTF, just what is it humans are about

and what is it we're trying to accomplish. There is sooo much hostility and hatred, I guess I've pretty much concluded it's endemic to the human species. Frankly, I think humanity will eventually be extinct, another life form that came and went.

[VioletLake]

37. Thanks, everyone, it's a pleasure reading your responses.

I enjoy science fiction. And what I can understand of the actual science fascinates me.

There are many ways to appeal to our better nature, some more engaging than others.

[krispos42]

40. I'm doing my part

SETI@Home. I'm even with the Democratic Underground group!

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/team_display.php?teamid=31451


JOIN UP!!!

[frogmarch]

44. Thanks for the info!

I've read a little about SETI@Home. I'll go check it out further.