Callista Gingrich "Devout Catholic"

[otohara]

"She was raised, and remains, a devout Catholic."


If I have to read one more story—or have to hear one more report on the radio—that describes Calista Gingrich as a "devout Catholic," I'm gonna throw a can of creamed corn through a stained-glass window. I was raised by devout Catholics. I know devout Catholics. Devout Catholics are friends (and family) of mine. And devout Catholics do not have premarital sex, they do not fuck married men (many won't even fuck their own husbands), they do not use birth control, they do not commit adultery. If Calista had remained devout throughout her life, she would not now be Mrs. Gingrich. Calista may well be Catholic. But devout?

Not so much.

Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 1:12 PM

[RZM]

1. I don't know much about Callista Gingrich

But I have known devout Catholics who have premarital sex and use birth control. Is Savage arguing that doing those things makes one not devout? Because I don't know about that. I've known people who go to church, believe in God and Jesus, and observe all of the Catholic rituals while having a normal sex life at the same time. In fact, almost all Catholics I've ever known (with a few notable exceptions) have had the same type of sex life as everybody else.

[lapislzi]

11. This is not a "no true Scotsman" reply.

If you are a Catholic, you are expected to obey certain rules without question. One of these is no birth control. Another is no extramarital sex of any kind, including adultery, homosexuality, masturbation, or premarital sex. Period.

You can receive forgiveness or absolution by taking the sacrament of Reconciliation (formerly known as penance), but it's generally expected that you refrain from such behaviors after you repent. Obviously it doesn't always happen that way and never has.

And, if you are in a state of Mortal Sin from doing any of the above and have not yet satisfactorily repented, you are not allowed to receive the sacrament of Holy Communion because you are not in a state of grace.

You can call yourself anything you want, but if you're not walking the walk, you are a hypocrite to call yourself "devout."

Being a "devout" or "good" Catholic is mostly incompatible with having any kind of "normal" sex life unless you only get the urge when you want to make a baby, and only then you're not really allowed to enjoy it. If you enjoy it to much--woops, mortal sin. It's for the glory of God. And I'm only being halfway facetious.

I was raised in one of those "devout" homes where those rules were followed to the letter, including FASTING on Fridays during Lent.

My mother would peep out the window early on Sunday morning to watch the "bad" people going to early Mass. I would have to hear that the bad people were returning from Saturday carousing and were not in a state of grace, and, hence, headed straight to hell.

*This message was paid for by Recovering Catholics for the Secularization of America, who is solely responsible for its content.

[JHB]

22. Well, then the world is loaded with hypocritical "devout" Catholics...

...who remain with it because they regard it as "theirs", but quietly (mostly; sometimes not) depart from what the "should" be doing according to the hierarchy.

But the low-level quiet dissenter-hypocrites mostly have the sense not to trumpet their "devout(except for...)" too loudly. Unlike Callista, who is at heavy-metal concert volumes.

[lapislzi]

28. You're right about that.

People also take great latitude with the word "devout." You can pray a lot, say the Rosary, go to confession and Mass, and call yourself "devout," like our neighbor, an early precursor of Gingrich, who dumped the mother of his six children to marry an intern in his law office.

Affluent white males feel entitled to certain privileges not enjoyed by the rest of society.

[ProfessorGAC]

33. Love That Tag Line!

As a former altar boy of a Cathedral school, where can i send donations to RCFTSA? Good stuff!
GAC

[malaise]

52. But can't you buy good grace with large tithes, lots of contributions to the

church, school fundraising efforts and of course charity work?

Love your post

[Drahthaardogs]

49. That is not the definition of a "devout" Roman Catholic

Devout Roman Catholics are loyal to the Magisterium (or in other words, accept the leadership and teachings of the Church in Rome). Notice I mentioned the Roman Rite, because Orthodox Catholics are not loyal to the Magisterium and reject the Papacy in Rome and instead have their own papacy in Constantinople. Callista is no Orthodox Catholic, she follows the Roman Rite.

The Church's official position on artificial birth control is that is a sin against your own body and the circumventing of God's will. It is grave and it is strictly forbidden (although the rhythm method is considered acceptable, if ineffective). Pre-martial sex is the sin of adultery in the Catholic Church.

Being Catholic is NOT like being Protestant, because Catholics do NOT accept nor have they ever accepted the philosophy of sola scriptura and have, since the beginning, held tradition and teaching in equal importance as the written word.

Regardless, I have the same experience with most Catholics as you do; however, make no mistake there ARE Catholics loyal to the Magisterium, they are the ones considered Devout. Callista is neither devout nor loyal, but most of us aren't.

[lapislzi]

2. Ah, those cafeteria Catholics

They can select the directives they'd prefer to obey and place them on their trays alongside their Friday fish entree.

That adultery side dish? Oooh, that looks none too fresh. Better pass.

And then Jesus will ring you right up. Ca-ching! Forgiven!

[hunter]

3. Traditionally the Church can forgive anything for money...

[Erose999]

7. I bet Newt's credit line there is greater than his line at Tiffany's, LOL.

[eShirl]

12. Isn't that sort of thing what the original protest-ants were protest-ing?

[Historic NY]

14. Money might not buy you love but it can get you an annulment.

Its amazing how you can fast track an annulment too.

I wonder how Newt squares in the eyes of the church with his past wives?

I have a couple friends who are holier than thou Catholics on paper all on their 3rd marriages. I was amazed how they were able to get an annulment when 2 of the 3 marriages had children. They like to look good up front while they leave a trail of failed relationships and problems behind them.

[lapislzi]

17. What are the grounds for a Rome annullment?

My grandmother (proudly) obtained one, but I never could figure that one out.

[Historic NY]

19. Here is a link

http://www.dioceseofprovidence.org/?id=38

[KatyMan]

25. I thought if you weren't married in the church

you don't need an annulment? That the church doesn't recognize that you were married?
To think I was raised Catholic and forget stuff like this...

[SharonAnn]

31. Only true if you or your spouse are Catholic. Otherwise, your marriage outside the church is valid.

[ProfessorGAC]

35. Not Sure That's Right

My mom worked for many years as a transcriptionist in the Tribunal, which is the RCC's divorce court, so to speak.

I believe annulments are granted only for non-consummated marriages. I believe the correct term in Canon Law for marriages after the fact are dissolutions.

A small point from somone who doesn't really care about the church. Just that i knew way more than i wanted to because my mom worked there.
GAC

[Avalux]

4. Yep - "devout" means strictly follows the tenets of catholicism. That doesn't include adultery.

Calista Gingrich may be a very nice woman; however by having sex with Newt while he was still married disqualifies her from being devout.

[glinda]

50. Perhaps she is selectively "Devout" by applying "forgiveness" when convenient. Newt

gained auto-forgiveness at his "Conversion". So all ok. Nothing here to look at.

[WI_DEM]

5. She probably said 100 Hail Mary's after screwing Newt while he was married to wife #2

[tabbycat31]

6. premarital sex aside

Most devout Catholics would not fuck a married man period.

[madmom]

27. I am not catholic or even christian in fact....

I am a non-believer and I (who supposedly has no morals) would not/did not fuck or even DATE a married man when I was single.

[AngryAmish]

8. The Pope need more of you, defenders of the One, True Faith

[slackmaster]

9. I've had several girlfriends who were serious and observant Catholics

They all had premarital sex.

Of course if you define "devout" as someone who doesn't have premarital sex, nobody can really argue effectively against that.

[otohara]

18. I Knew Catholic Gals Who Got Abortions

none dare claimed to be "devout" however.

[slackmaster]

30. I know one who attempted suicide

A mortal sin under Catholic teaching, I believe. But she calls herself devout.

[hedgehog]

10. Many words in the Roman Catholic Church have several meanings.

For example, Vatican II Catholics will tell you that "the Church" means all baptized Catholics; some will go so far as to say all baptized Christians! Others will tell you that "the Church" means bishops in good standing with the bureaucrats in Rome, as in "the Church forbids contraception."

In this case, most people think "devout" implies someone with reverence for Christ and all the Saints, someone who prays a lot and tries to live mindfully. In fact, in this case, "devout" means someone who gives all authority to the Vatican and lip service to what the Vatican says. You don't have to do what the Vatican says to be devout, just agree with what the Vatican says! It's all about the Romanita!

[lapislzi]

15. Point taken

and many Catholics use this elastic language to get away with...anything.

There are also right-wing Catholics who would like to see Vatican II completely erased, and they have the tacit agreement of the current pontifferatu.

Priests have recently been given the latitude to say Mass in Latin if they choose.

[Peregrine Took]

13. A devout Catholic is a person who is one with the Church and all its rules.

Its impossible to practice birth control, have pre or extra marital sex and be "devout."

You can be a "Catholic" but not devout which implies a love and adherence to the Church and its tenets.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

16. I think I'm going to puke. nt

[MineralMan]

19. Callista Gingrich is not running for any office.

She's not really a fair target. This thread will also likely cause some anti-catholic posts to be made, which will create new arguments.

Candidates' wives are not grist for the mill, I think, including Dan Savage's mill. Attack Newt Gingrich, not his wife, please.

[Tansy_Gold]

21. If she actively participates in the campaign

She's fair game.

[MineralMan]

23. Is she? Because she's campaigning for her husband,

her religious beliefs can be attacked, and people can say whether she's a good Catholic or not? Really?

She is not a candidate for anything. Her piety or lack of it is in no way a political issue, in any case. While it may be fine to discuss her campaign appearances, this goes over the line, it seems to me.

Gingrich is an ass and is eminently attackable. His wife...not so much, especially on a personal level.

[lapislzi]

34. There's a certain looseness of language in this thread

What's a "good" Catholic as opposed to a "devout" one?

All that being beside the point and open to interpretation, depending on one's perspective and religious upbringing, I think anyone's hypocrisy is fair game.

The Republicans never once lightened up on Hillary or Michelle Obama (still don't).

As I think the death of Santorum's preterm baby is a political minefield, it is legitimate to raise the issue that he and his wife were able to make informed medical decisions with their doctors without interference from the state, a right that he seeks to deny others.

I don't give a crap what religion a politician or his family subscribes to. I do object to hypocrisy and in-your-faceness.

[SomethingFishy]

36. Yeah she should be off limits..

She was just a congressional aide who was fucking the married Speaker Of The House while he was trying to impeach the President for cheating on his wife.... with an aide.

What a perfect little angel.

Sorry, if she wants to put herself and Newt out there as the "family values" "devoutly religious" candidates then it's open fucking season. Hypocrisy is not a "value".

[Aerows]

37. She was having an affair with him

While he was still married to his ill, ex-wife. That MAKES her a target, because it says something about Newt Gingrich's character that he has cheated on his wives at least twice.

If she's running around calling herself devout when she was obviously fornicating with Newt and helping him commit adultery, she IS going to be criticized for being a hypocrite and rightfully so. That is the woman that compared herself to Jacqueline Kennedy. She's like Newt - full of herself and full of hot air.

John Edwards entire campaign got torpedoed over adultery, and it was relentlessly brought up. I see no reason to do Newt any favors by giving him a pass.

[hunter]

38. Newt is waving her around to demonstrate his newly minted right winger religious credentials.

That's what makes her a "fair target."

Asshole Newt was quick to claim the mantle of "persecuted Christian" as he threw Callista directly into the crossfire.

They both know what they are doing. If Callista wasn't in the game she wouldn't be hanging out with the turd.

[yellowcanine]

24. I don't care if she is a Druid. It is Newt who is running for President.

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. "many won't even fuck their own husbands"

[irisblue]

41. i know this to be true, sadly n/t

[theaocp]

29. Religious bullshit like catholicsm

is exactly why I'm an atheist now, yet was raised catholic (baptized and confirmed) by very loving parents. Fuck callista and every other goddamn hypocrite out there. Their opiate is a nightmare to the rest of us. Go feed the fucking poor and hungry, already.

[librechik]

32. ...going to hell. n/t

[spanone]

39. better than 'adulteress'. bet the campaign came up with 'devout catholic'

because she surely is not.

[lapislzi]

40. Although we are pretty sure of the former, we cannot determine the latter

There are just too many ways to interpret "devout," as we are seeing in this thread. It can mean anything.

She may be devout, but a doctrinaire Catholic will point out that she may be in a state of mortal sin. If she has confessed and done penance, good. But, for her to be a Catholic in "official" good standing, she will have had to marry Newt in the church, and this would require annulments of his prior marriages, making his children illegitimate (nice!)

If she and Newt did not marry in the church, she is still technically in a state of adultery.

I am so glad I dispensed with it years ago!

[onethatcares]

42. devout, devouring.

what's a little extra marital oral sex between friends?

[SoCalDem]

43. She's a "Sunday-Morning Catholic"

Back when I was in school (and still forced to go to mass every sunday), some of the most promiscuous girls in school were up there at the communion rail (having had their week's-worth of "sins" washed away by a few Hail Marys as penance from confession)

[sarcasmo]

44. Devout worshiper at the plastic surgeons office.

[Ecumenist]

45. "She was raised and REMAINS, a devout Catholic." She was sleeping with another woman's husband

in the wife's home and bed...REALLY??!! OOh, if she did that with my husband. I would grab her by the ankles and beat his ass with her. When they woke up in ICU, they probably would be devout.

[Blacksheep214]

46. Reminds me of a Beatles song

Eleanor Rigby

Guess which line?

[barbtries]

48. all i can think of is

face in a jar by the door

[Blacksheep214]

51. We have a winner! nm

[barbtries]

47. republican catholic,

whole other story.

[jwirr]

53. I just shake my head when I see that headline. If she is so devote what was she doing having an

affair with another woman's husband? Or is that okay in the Catholic Church?

[marmar]

54. She worships at St. Tiffany.

nt

[Stinky The Clown]

55. Absolutely, positively, emphatically, completely true.

From one who was raised in similar circumstances by similar people as the good Mr. Savage.

[TwilightGardener]

56. She can call herself whatever she likes, but having an affair with a married man

pretty much erases any moral "credit" she wants to claim for going to Mass on Sunday.