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Tom Rinaldo

(23,016 posts)
Fri Jul 19, 2024, 02:10 PM Jul 2024

On this at least I'm certain. Either Biden or Harris must head our ticket

Conflicting cases continue to be made for why President Biden should or should not stand for reelection. Though some of course disagree, IMO it isn't a slam dunk whether it is more or less likely that Democrats will defeat Trump in November with Joe Biden as our standard bearer, as opposed to someone else. It that someone else is Kamala Harris, that is.

Democrats need to close ranks emphatically behind our candidate for President once that selection is irrevocably finalized. In an ideal world we would be unified in that choice now. Obviously this isn't that ideal world, and arguing that it should be doesn't alter reality. Casting blame here or there for a lack of consensus now won't change the fact that divergent opinions on whether Biden should run again remain, and will for a few days or weeks more at most.

There is one possible scenario though which i think would doom any real chance Democrats have of holding on to the presidency this November. That would be to first reject Joe Biden as our presidential candidate, and then pass over his currently serving Vice President as his replacement, in favor of anyone else. Yes Democrats have a deep bench, with many appealing potential candidates. Fine, if Kamala Harris is elevated to become our presidential nominee, one of them can serve as her running mate. But there is nothing that would cement the festering resentments that now potentially divide the hard core Democratic voters that we count on to propel us to victory, than swapping out the entire Biden/Harris Administration for a brand new ticket.

Some have made the point that history has not looked kindly on a political party that doesn't unite behind an incumbent president for reelection. Taft lost to Wilson when Teddy Roosevelt ran as a third party alternative to the then incumbent Republican. When disunity in the Democratic Party in part influenced LBJ to stand down, Richard Nixon ended up succeeding him. Later Gerald Ford lost to Jimmy Carter, and then Jimmy Carter in turn lost to Ronald Reagan, after both of those incumbent Presidents faced stiff opposition from within their own parties.

Yes, history could repeat itself this year, and i think it certain that it would if Democrats choose neither Joe Biden nor Kamala Harris as our standard bearer for the 2024 election. If President Biden should in the coming days decide, after painful continued reflection, that the time has in fact come for him to pass the torch of leadership on to someone from a younger generation, it must go to the person he has already chosen to succeed him, the woman he personally picked to be his Vice President. And Joe Biden himself would then have to bestow his personal blessing and legitimacy on to his heir apparent. The Democratic base might accept that the transition ultimately is occurring with Biden's blessing, if Kamala Harris runs in Biden's stead. Especially if Joe Biden were to nominate her himself.

Recent history, as far as i can tell, has no precedent for a one term President declining to seek reelection, and bestowing his blessing onto his Vice President instead, with the sole exception of LBJ. Hubert Humphrey did lose in 1968, but the Democratic Party was far from united behind him, and his nomination for President was bitterly contested. If Democrats fail to nominate Biden, but don't quickly unite behind Harris for his replacement, I definitely fear the worst. A smooth, uncontested, passing of the torch directly from Biden to Harris has no negative precedent, unlike what the Democrats went through in 1968.

It is Biden, or Harris, or bust, and the quicker Democrats can close ranks behind one of them the better.

8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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On this at least I'm certain. Either Biden or Harris must head our ticket (Original Post) Tom Rinaldo Jul 2024 OP
I'm still ridin'with Biden. If someting happens during his presidency Harris is good to...Both are good..nt mitch96 Jul 2024 #1
I agree with you, both are honorable and either will lead well. CoopersDad Jul 2024 #2
Is there any reason to think Frasier Balzov Jul 2024 #3
Not that I'm aware of. Tom Rinaldo Jul 2024 #8
Is has to be Biden dreamland Jul 2024 #4
I'm not so sure about the public not being ready for a female President Tom Rinaldo Jul 2024 #6
There is the little matter of the 14 million people who voted in the primary. waterwatcher123 Jul 2024 #5
Biden earned those 14 million votes, no argument there Tom Rinaldo Jul 2024 #7

mitch96

(14,814 posts)
1. I'm still ridin'with Biden. If someting happens during his presidency Harris is good to...Both are good..nt
Fri Jul 19, 2024, 02:11 PM
Jul 2024

CoopersDad

(2,980 posts)
2. I agree with you, both are honorable and either will lead well.
Fri Jul 19, 2024, 02:12 PM
Jul 2024

Nobody really knows who would have better odds, that's simply unknowable.

Frasier Balzov

(3,622 posts)
3. Is there any reason to think
Fri Jul 19, 2024, 02:13 PM
Jul 2024

that Kamala Harris would take the Presidency in some vastly different direction than Joe Biden would want it to go?

I don't understand why Joe shouldn't be perfectly satisfied to be her close adviser when she succeeds to office. He's very interested in policy areas where she will benefit greatly from his help during his reduced working hours.

Tom Rinaldo

(23,016 posts)
8. Not that I'm aware of.
Fri Jul 19, 2024, 04:58 PM
Jul 2024

Every individual has their own spin on priorities, but Biden chose Harris and they seemingly have worked well together.

I can understand why Biden wouldn't be perfectly satisfied to be her closest advisor, because he sincerely believes, for good reasons, that he deserves to head up the Administration for another four years. But if he reluctantly should conclude that she, rather than he, is more likely to unite Democrats AND win the election in November, it's not as if is legacy would be trashed under Harris, it would be carried on.

dreamland

(983 posts)
4. Is has to be Biden
Fri Jul 19, 2024, 02:21 PM
Jul 2024

Of this I'm sure. The American public is still not ready to vote a women into the presidency. Look even the Repugs are going with Rump instead of Nicki Haley who is probably way more qualified. If we are going to win this, we need to get our shit together and back Biden.

Tom Rinaldo

(23,016 posts)
6. I'm not so sure about the public not being ready for a female President
Fri Jul 19, 2024, 02:40 PM
Jul 2024

Hillary came damn close, and that was before Roe was overturned. Trump doubled down on toxic masculinity with his pick of a running mate. I heard one pundit muse that a Harris/Whitmer ticket might actually make a lot of sense. It would re-frame the entire race and could help Democrats with turn out.

waterwatcher123

(284 posts)
5. There is the little matter of the 14 million people who voted in the primary.
Fri Jul 19, 2024, 02:37 PM
Jul 2024

There is no amount of spin that will make this situation turn out well. If party insiders succeed at driving out Biden (and it looks they are trying to drive him out), large numbers of rank-and-file Democrats will simply disappear or sit it out (they will not volunteer, donate or even participate). As someone who worked with the public for years, I can tell you people do amazing things when they are respected and honored. Likewise, they will actively resist or sit it out if they are taken for granted or ignored. This whole discussion about replacing Biden makes it look like the will of rich donors and Democratic insiders matters a hell of a lot more than the people who already voted in the primary.

Most people are astute when it comes to being fed a line of bullshit. It is hard to buy the notion that his election is about saving democracy while simultaneously ignoring it in their own party.


Tom Rinaldo

(23,016 posts)
7. Biden earned those 14 million votes, no argument there
Fri Jul 19, 2024, 02:52 PM
Jul 2024

One of those votes was mine. Based on what i knew then, and given the choices before me at the time, it was a no-brainer. You can't know that all of those voters strongly back Biden remaining in the race now. Obviously many do but very few people saw any reason to turn out for a Democratic primary with an incumbent Democratic President, just to vote against him.

Honestly, if Biden bowed out and strongly backed Harris, the woman he chose to put a heart beat away from the Presidency, i don't think a significant percentage of hard core Democrats (the type who will turn out to vote in a primary with no real contest) will then decide to sit out the election and let Trump potentially win.

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