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Jrose

(1,348 posts)
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 03:52 PM Sep 30

'Women are not some piece of collectively owned community property'

Last edited Mon Sep 30, 2024, 06:41 PM - Edit history (1)

Some key quotes from the order in which Judge Robert McBurney struck down Georgia’s extremely restrictive abortion ban:

"Women are not some piece of collectively owned community property the disposition of which is decided by majority vote.

…..the liberty of privacy means that they alone should choose whether they serve as human incubators for the five months leading up to viability. It is not for a legislator, a judge, or a Commander from The Handmaid’s Tale to tell these women what to do with their bodies during this period when the fetus cannot survive outside the womb any more so than society could -- or should -- force them to serve as a human tissue bank or to give up a kidney for the benefit of another.

…liberty in Georgia includes in its meaning, in its protections, and in its bundle of rights the power of a woman to control her own body, to decide what happens to it and in it, and to reject state interference with her healthcare choices."

(Reported by Chris Stein, The Guardian)
53 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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'Women are not some piece of collectively owned community property' (Original Post) Jrose Sep 30 OP
Link to the order: Ocelot II Sep 30 #1
Thanks, Ocelot II for the link. I was having technical problems with that! Jrose Sep 30 #24
Yes! Thank you! ❤️ littlemissmartypants Sep 30 #33
Whatever has happened to the Fulton County case? Sogo Sep 30 #38
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 UpInArms Oct 1 #42
This is awesome. liberalmuse Sep 30 #2
This is so great! Timeflyer Sep 30 #3
Wow! DET Sep 30 #4
I always wonder how any normal person does that. efhmc Sep 30 #6
The judge has a way with understanding Tweedy Sep 30 #9
No kidding! ☹️ For those of us who practice "woo" white light this good judge, his workplace, home, and family. electric_blue68 Sep 30 #21
Excellent quote. efhmc Sep 30 #5
Finally! A jurist who understands autonomy and the right to privacy Tweedy Sep 30 #7
I hope many of us in this country will remember 2024 as the turning point Jrose Sep 30 #34
So well said. Can we replace one of our current SC Justices with this person? ms liberty Sep 30 #8
I think he just interviewed for the job cpamomfromtexas Oct 1 #50
Oh hell yeah AmBlue Sep 30 #10
The 19th amendment was necessary! dickthegrouch Oct 1 #48
"during this period when the fetus cannot survive outside the womb" Okay, so what happens at "viability"? WhiskeyGrinder Sep 30 #11
It's basically the same result as Roe v. Wade. Ocelot II Sep 30 #14
Which is why I say that Roe is the floor and we have to do better with whatever comes next. WhiskeyGrinder Sep 30 #15
Totally agree LearnedHand Sep 30 #20
At that point I think it becomes a medical decision with a physician. Joinfortmill Sep 30 #28
Yes. Tweedy Sep 30 #22
Agreed lonely bird Oct 1 #44
Absolute bs Tweedy Oct 1 #53
If the fetus is viable then it's called a birth VMA131Marine Sep 30 #35
. WhiskeyGrinder Sep 30 #37
when i offered to take a friend to get a abortion in the 70s... samnsara Oct 1 #43
Can we charge Rethug politicians with practicing medicine without a license? Seinan Sensei Sep 30 #12
Yes!!! Demovictory9 Sep 30 #13
Finally someone put into words senseandsensibility Sep 30 #16
"Oh, noes!!! rubbersole Sep 30 #17
I think that when President Harris is looking for candidates to fill new SCOTUS positions, flashman13 Sep 30 #18
Why didn't you post the link? littlemissmartypants Sep 30 #19
Sorry, was having tech glitches! 'Ocelot II' did thankfully post the link. Jrose Sep 30 #25
No need to apologize. Appreciate the post. Joinfortmill Sep 30 #30
Oh, no. Technical glitches are no fun. I hope you can get them ironed out. ❤️ littlemissmartypants Sep 30 #32
.... AKwannabe Sep 30 #23
Finally. GB_RN Sep 30 #26
Wow. Right on! Joinfortmill Sep 30 #27
WE ARE NOT GOING BACK, PERIOD. Clouds Passing Sep 30 #29
Finally, a freaking judge who "gets it!" slightlv Sep 30 #31
There's a cartoon going around GopherGal Oct 1 #49
The forced kidney donation example slightlv Oct 1 #51
Wow, I'm so happy with this order and this judge! ...the robustness and strong defense against the abortion ban. liberalla Sep 30 #36
At last! dlk Oct 1 #39
Wow. Just wow. Native Oct 1 #40
National Socialist Vance believes in the collectivization of white baby production. Production, not support Bernardo de La Paz Oct 1 #41
Robert McBurney For the Supreme Court malaise Oct 1 #45
This is beautiful ... n/t wackadoo wabbit Oct 1 #46
Wow. Beautifully said. Betty Boom Oct 1 #47
Not a Republican, I'm guessing. Morbius Oct 1 #52

UpInArms

(51,841 posts)
42. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 07:02 AM
Oct 1

That was one of the most beautifully written Court Decisions I have ever read. (I have read hundreds, if not thousands, in my lifetime.)

liberalmuse

(18,876 posts)
2. This is awesome.
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 04:31 PM
Sep 30

Finally, a judge laying it all out. What a hero. And saying that, it’s sad that people who recognize basic human rights could be considered hero’s in the 21st fucking century.

Tweedy

(1,176 posts)
9. The judge has a way with understanding
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 04:54 PM
Sep 30

the right to bodily autonomy.

I really want to see what would happen if we forced right wing judges to simply donate blood once a month. Since they mostly could not be bothered to wear a mask to not kill their neighbor, I have little doubt blood donation would be a horrible ordeal for all of them.

electric_blue68

(18,334 posts)
21. No kidding! ☹️ For those of us who practice "woo" white light this good judge, his workplace, home, and family.
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 06:25 PM
Sep 30

Tweedy

(1,176 posts)
7. Finally! A jurist who understands autonomy and the right to privacy
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 04:52 PM
Sep 30

This judge just made my day.

It was beginning to concern me that right wing judges were nonchalantly turning living breathing female folks into chattel simply because of our reproductive organs and no-one responded that hey, women are not property !!

Jrose

(1,348 posts)
34. I hope many of us in this country will remember 2024 as the turning point
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 07:34 PM
Sep 30

when the looming threat of dictatorial terror by a cult of madmen...was crushed by the rise of courageous women and men who respected them.

AmBlue

(3,444 posts)
10. Oh hell yeah
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 05:02 PM
Sep 30

Awesome explainer. But it baffles me that this needs to be explained at all. Just mind-numbingly crazy that we are here.

WhiskeyGrinder

(23,966 posts)
11. "during this period when the fetus cannot survive outside the womb" Okay, so what happens at "viability"?
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 05:04 PM
Sep 30

Is a right with a deadline truly a right?

Tweedy

(1,176 posts)
22. Yes.
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 06:35 PM
Sep 30

Viability means the fetus can survive outside the womb.

This is Roe v. Wade language.

Our founders would have allowed abortion later, though. They believed abortion was allowed until quickening, which happens when the fetus moves.

The so-called originalists on our Supreme Court ignored our founders entirely. Instead our “honorable” originalists reached way back to the Long Parliament to quote a religious zealot who burned “heretics” for a living.

In a not so strange twist, the same “originalist” justices of our Supreme Court ignored the England’s Long Parliament to grant Mr. Trump immunity for his multitudinous law-breaking.

Oliver Cromwell and the Long Parliament disagreed vehemently with that immunity decision. How could I possibly know that? They cut off Charles II’s head for his many crimes against them.

The Supreme Court originalists are picky about their legal theories. They begin with their desired outcome and then hunt for their authority.

lonely bird

(1,923 posts)
44. Agreed
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 08:21 AM
Oct 1

Especially since “originalism” is a relatively recent phenomenon pushed by Bork among others.

Jefferson said that expecting a constitution to not consider the times would be like expecting a man to wear the same jacket that fit him as a boy.

Originalism is bullshit.

Tweedy

(1,176 posts)
53. Absolute bs
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 08:48 PM
Oct 1

Robert Bork wanted to rationalize his decision to fire Archibald Cox.

We are living in Robert Bork’s guilt ridden ruined brain pan. The Supreme Court just rounded the circle by reversing the unanimous Nixon v. U.S. without having the guts to actually do so.

Robert Bork was a brilliant man who was so subservient to Richard Nixon he truly did forget he was an American man.

VMA131Marine

(4,665 posts)
35. If the fetus is viable then it's called a birth
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 07:37 PM
Sep 30

The baby can survive outside the uterus so there’s no reason not to choose that.
Most if not all late term abortions are due to some abnormality in the baby that is incompatible with life.

WhiskeyGrinder

(23,966 posts)
37. .
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 07:57 PM
Sep 30
The baby can survive outside the uterus so there’s no reason not to choose that.
If there's no reason to "choose that," we don't need a law preventing it. Defining a situation that requires exceptions only creates barriers.

samnsara

(18,290 posts)
43. when i offered to take a friend to get a abortion in the 70s...
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 08:06 AM
Oct 1

..there needed to be an ultra sound to determine if she was over 5 mos.

rubbersole

(8,606 posts)
17. "Oh, noes!!!
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 05:50 PM
Sep 30

A commie judge takin' away our incubators! Just when I was going through my stepdaughters junior high school yearbook pickin' out my perfect baby mama"...said the captain of the Georgia proud boys in mtg's district.

flashman13

(856 posts)
18. I think that when President Harris is looking for candidates to fill new SCOTUS positions,
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 05:54 PM
Sep 30

McBurney needs to be on the short list. He is a jurist - not a witch burner (I'm talking to you Sam).

GB_RN

(3,177 posts)
26. Finally.
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 06:46 PM
Sep 30

A judge who follows the Constitution (and the state’s), science and common sense, instead of an ideology rooted in oppression.

slightlv

(4,387 posts)
31. Finally, a freaking judge who "gets it!"
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 07:19 PM
Sep 30
this results in different meanings being prescribed to the same words, phrases, and provisions as different minds and sensibilities take their turn discerning that meaning. In other words, the meaning of the Constitution is no more fixed than is the composition of the majority in the highest courts of the land -- especially when formerly bedrock principles such as stare decisis appear to be on the wane.


I really like the way he brought in what has been happening in SCOTUS and other courts today. There is so much in this order that makes common sense of issues that the forced birth people have muddied with their words and religious ideas. That is one area I didn't see the judge address, and I do ding him for that. He even quotes the bible passage that the forced birthers used to justify the Act, but doesn't mention anything about the separation of church and state.

But that is really the only "ding" I can see in this. His language is clear, the footnotes, especially, are extremely valuable. In considering the equal protection clause, I hadn't thought of pregnant vs non-pregnant women as the two classes due equal protection. I'd always just reverted to the male vs female classes, and wondered how you could consider equal protection between those two classes, when men cannot give birth.

Oh, that we would have more judges on the bench like this one! This is a carefully considered judgement, easy to read, and wise in the way Reality actually works. Not according to some Sky God, but according to the state's constitutions and its versions. How so much better a reading than Sam Alito's denial of our rights based on a 16th century witch hunting monk. I think Alito could take some remedial classes from this judge! And to think, this judge is MALE.

GopherGal

(2,401 posts)
49. There's a cartoon going around
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 12:59 PM
Oct 1

with a person peeking into a baby carriage and asking "Is it a boy? Or property of the state?"

That prompted me to think - presuming the state* does have an interest in reproductive activities, at what age do they take ownership of little girls? Immediately at birth? (since baby girls have all the eggs they will ever have when they're at about 20 wks gestation in their mothers' wombs) Or is it just when a girl has her first period? (and is, presumably, capable of bearing children). Or is it when she becomes sexually active? (and therefore a potential forced incubator.)

* "the state" seems to mean "our society" to some and "the economy" to others. Even taking it to mean "our society" (the more Democratic viewpoint, I believe), does not mean society's interest overrides the individual's rights. I find the "forced kidney donation" example from the opinion to be an interesting gender-neutral example here.

slightlv

(4,387 posts)
51. The forced kidney donation example
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 05:49 PM
Oct 1

harks back to when we were arguing about this in the early days -- that corpses have more rights now than living, breathing women. You cannot take organs from a corpse or do anything to the corpse, unless paperwork has been filed prior to death. Women... not so much any more.

liberalla

(10,050 posts)
36. Wow, I'm so happy with this order and this judge! ...the robustness and strong defense against the abortion ban.
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 07:39 PM
Sep 30

Thank you Judge McBurney!

dlk

(12,424 posts)
39. At last!
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 04:38 AM
Oct 1

A reasoned judge who lives in this century and doesn’t view women as glorified chattel. This post made my day!

I know there are others. However, Judge McBurney’s choice of language was especially meaningful.

Bernardo de La Paz

(51,046 posts)
41. National Socialist Vance believes in the collectivization of white baby production. Production, not support
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 06:29 AM
Oct 1

magas are forever claiming that Democrats are nazis because they are socialist which is supposedly the guiding principle of the National Socialist Party (of 1930s Germany and beyond). "socialist", hence equivalent to communist which is a word they use interchangeably as if it were a synonym.

magas and Cons like Vance want to increase white baby production to counteract the Great Replacement they fear is being accomplished by immigration; hence "Take back my country!".

Of course, Cons and magas never support pre-natal care, nor early childhood care. That costs money. They only support births and manufactured "rights" of embryos and fetuses, especially white ones.
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