I never wanted kids

[XanaDUer2]

Ever. I feel the world is overpopulated. I also didn't want to add a potential wage slave into the cogs of capitalism.

I find young kids annoying. And I shouldn't be forced to do something as major as motherhood to make Republicans happy. Always had cats and dogs. And climate change is real. And its gonna be horrible. Like "nomads wandering the earth looking for safer places" bad. I'm not putting my kids through what's coming. And coming soon.

Vance can fuck right off. What woman votes for vermin like him and Trump?

[Mossfern]

1. Very sound reasoning

3 of my 4 kids agree with you.
I let them know that I support their decision and that I didn't have kids in order to have grandchildren.

[XanaDUer2]

2. I saw employees w kids struggling

One wife w 2 small kids quit her pt job bc childcare cost more than she was earning.

Their insurance (on husbands) is so expensive its eating up a lot of his paycheck. They submit to a wellness check to lower prices, and the wife is told she's overweight 6 wks after giving birth.

Not worth it

[Wonder Why]

17. So you saw some families too poor to have children? It was "Not worth it"? That your decision for the

mothers or their decision? My parents were poor and had us and I never felt unwanted or unloved and we often had pasta and beans or pasta and peas for dinner. We all turned out fine. We had two kids when I was a serviceman not making a lot of money and we just lived on less. It was my wife's decision to have children, not mine, but I went along with it and our kids turned out fine also.

Let the woman decide if it is worth it. Not Trump, not DeeJay, not even Kamala or Joe. And definitely not you or I.

Let the couple decide if they "can afford it". Some need help. Some need lots of help. Some don't. Some don't want it. But she decides if she wants to have a child and she decides if she wants to keep it.

She doesn't need anyone to tell her she is too poor and shouldn't have a child. And no woman deserves extra honors for saying they don't want to have kids any more than a woman saying they do. It should be an individual choice. And they should not be pressured to have them because the government needs cannon fodder, the right wing wants to be sure that whites dominate and minorities don't become too many or because they are rich. On the other hand, they should not be pressured to not have them because the world is "overpopulated", they are poor, or they are not the right color.

[XanaDUer2]

27. If someone wants kids, they're free to make

That decision. Id like to see more actual family-friendly policies

[raising2moredems]

110. Time to walk the walk....

Most pukes are just pro-fetus. Don't care if a child who is not sold into adoption (yes, adoption is a very profitable business with a supply - domestic that is aka white - that is small and demand that is large.
If they were truly pro-family, we'd have paid parental leave. Safe drinking water and sewage systems. Affordable housing, health/dental/vision care, good schools - safe schools. We have little of the aforementioned must-haves for children.
Face it - forced breeding keeps females "in their place".

[Evolve Dammit]

12. Yes it is, and its killing the planet

[canetoad]

77. Arable land per head of population

Is roughly half of what it was in the 1960s. North America has the most per person, East Asia and Pacific has the least. We cannot keep taking what is just not going to be there any more.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/arable-land-use-per-person

[Cirsium]

91. Arable land

Your chart defines arable land as land that is in use, not land that could be in use. "Land abandoned as a result of shifting cultivation is excluded." The declining acreage per capita is a function of intensive agriculture.

The idea that farmland get used and used up is part of the problem. Degradation of the land is not inevitable and is caused by current unsustainable ag practices which are based on maximizing profits.

[Sky Jewels]

84. Yeah, you ARE wrong.

[Jmb 4 Harris-Walz]

16. Her comment was actually that she supported 3 of her 4 children's decision not to have children

because she didn’t have children to get grandchildren.

[Mossfern]

61. Thank you

I thought that I hadn't made that clear.

[niyad]

104. It was perfectly clear. I had no trouble understanding it.

[Jirel]

21. It absolutely is.

Denying overpopulation is as ridiculous as denying climate change. You can play games with transporting food and water, sending garbage farther and farther away, begging people not to travel or use fuel to conserve finite resources and pollute less, etc., but all those things LITERALLY MEAN WE HAVE OVERPOPULATED. Building and creating new farms until we have destroyed our precious natural areas means we have overpopulated. The explosion of junk businesses like endless fast food franchises that pay almost nothing to an endless stream of short-term employees that keep applying despite abusive conditions means we have overpopulated. The dearth of housing in dense areas means we have overpopulated. The endless demand for more dead trees for building means we have overpopulated. Destruction of species where we continually encroach on them means we have overpopulated. The fact that sh*twits keep screaming for more babies for their false economic “perpetual growth” models while literally throwing away our children and ignoring their well-being means we have overpopulated.

[Jirel]

35. Aw, you can't even argue the point.

That’s how MAGAts operate, not thinking people. You’re in love with the idea that we can just breed and breed in a finite world, for whatever reasons you’ve been fed and internalized. That’s called religion, not analysis.

[biophile]

40. I agree

Will try to get a defense for his position

[biophile]

39. You are allowed your opinion

But many will disagree with you. Just curious- why are you so certain that 9 billion people is not too many? Do you think it is possible to be sustainable if all 9 billion lived simply?

[Cirsium]

54. It is not that

Forgive me jumping in here.

Populations of all organisms expand until they no longer can, and population explosions and collapses are common. Humans, as a highly social species, may be able to self-stabilize and operate sustainably over long stretches of time, and there is evidence of that happening throughout history and pre-history. There is evidence that pre-Columbian societies in the western hemisphere were managing natural resources in sustainable ways while still supporting populations that may have been larger than contemporary European populations.

We are living in a time when a highly destructive economic system dominates everything. Our population growth arguments should not ignore that. The stabilization of the population and progressive social change are the same battle. Equal rights for women, access to education and birth control, are critical, for example.

We don't really know what the "carrying capacity" of the Earth is, and we can't know that if we don't know how society is going to be organized. Right now the future of the human race is in the hands of Thiel, Musk, Bezos, Singer, Gates, Zuckerberg, Koch, Walton, DeVos, Diamond, et al. We are way overpopulated with that class of people and that is what is unsustainable

[biophile]

74. I see the truth in that

I’m biased- I dislike people. Therefore I think there are too many 😏. Whether the Earth can sustain 9 billion is not my criteria but as you noted it’s the way we live that is a problem. Capitalism is not sustainable.
Live well and prosper!

[Cirsium]

83. Thanks n/t

...

[OldBaldy1701E]

80. "We are living in a time when a highly destructive economic system dominates everything."

BINGO!

https://i.postimg.cc/5NWHNT3B/temp-Image-TPjv-WD.avif

[Collimator]

86. Thank you for your post.

I appreciate the information and clarity that you have provided with it.

[Envirogal]

103. We are indeed overpopulated

The degrading biodiversity and species decline to support a growing, greedy, and clueless human population and economic system that is subsidized by the Tragedy of the Commons that abuses our natural resources.

Human population went from one billion in the mid-1800’s to 8 billion and growing today. The destruction to the world’s resources and species are a direct result.

However, that is not the only thing to be alarmed about with growing human population at time when innovation and AI are going to be continuing to grow, thus replacing human labor. How is a growing human population supposed to sustain itself economically if it does not have the ability to have stable work that pays a survivable wage as resources vanish?

The oligarchs in the world, including the South African “immigrants” in this country that want to run everything and want more babies to be born because they need to keep the Ponzi Scheme alive with more consumers, soldiers, and labor to cherry pick through (and fire at will) to prop up and protect their business and wealth.

[Cirsium]

114. Thanks

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

[4catsmom]

82. you sound like a bot

[Cirsium]

37. Most of the damage

Most of the damage to the environment is caused by a relatively small percentage of the population.

The planet won't support 8.2 billion people living the way that the upper 10% in the US live, especially since about 1950. Suburban sprawl and development, automobile culture, marketing to children, single use plastic, the privatization of basic utilities, collapse of mass transit, shoddy merchandise and on and on. None of that is sustainable. Talking about population being the problem is just a way to avoid facing the real problem.

There is no way to know if what I am about to say is true, but my guess is that when people think about overpopulation they are not picturing crowds of white people in their minds.

[biophile]

41. True

[Envirogal]

115. Population is what leads to all you mentioned.

As someone who works in the Waste industry, I can assure you human population is the biggest issue because every human, no matter how conscious or respecting of resources, causes ecological impact. Every baby born that does not use washable diapers causes waste. And that baby grows into a child, then an adult that consumes and wastes along the way.

When you have a lower population, these impacts are not as detrimental because ecological systems can be balanced with the ability to regenerate.

The problem is our entire global economy is based on this model that relies to heavily on wasting and polluting natural resources. Even developing nations, have their own forms of pollution and waste (and some of this is from the West shoving our problems on them). So while the West is definitely the biggest culprit as far as resource usage, other countries have impacts, too.

If we don’t start recognizing this inconvenient truth, we are heading for systems collapse in so many areas. Nature is incredibly patient, but eventually, she will “correct”. The biggest step humanity can make is by educating women and giving them rights in every country globally. This has proven to lower birth rates and provide cultural norm shifts on women’s role in society and family planning. We will need to start acting now to prepare for the 40 years of economic imbalance, supporting the growing number of aging seniors ratio with less young workers. Economically, it will be painful but the alternative with the panic of the far right to return to women as brood mares, will have an entirely more painful correction as it ignores natures’s resource limits.

Less people= more abundance for everyone and each individual has a value rather than be expendable. And natural systems also have an actual opportunity to rebound.

[Cirsium]

120. Excellent points

"The problem is our entire global economy is based on this model that relies to heavily on wasting and polluting natural resources."

Agreed.

"The biggest step humanity can make is by educating women and giving them rights in every country globally. This has proven to lower birth rates and provide cultural norm shifts on women’s role in society and family planning."

Absolutely.

[bluescribbler]

46. You cannot point to any social problem

That is not caused by too many people competing for too few resources. Not one. War, pollution, poverty, crime, climate change, pandemics are all directly related to human overpopulation.

[Cirsium]

85. Women's rights

Access to birth control and education. That is a place to start.

[Mossfern]

58. I am NOT tellilng my kids not to have children

The decision was always theirs to make.
They told me that they didn't want to have children.
I merely support them in that decision - either way.

The grandchildren that I do have are absolutely fabulous.

Maybe I miscommunicated in my post?

[krkaufman]

72. Just a terrible response

What the commenter said…

3 of my 4 kids agree with you.
I let them know that I support their decision

[Sky Jewels]

81. Of course the planet is overpopulated.

There are just too many humans, and they are using up resources and torturing and slaughtering animals by the billions and poisoning the land, water and air and destroying ecosystem after ecosystem. And Americans have been among the most destructive and wasteful people on the planet.

We have two mid-20s kids and I sometimes feel guilty for bringing them onto this burning-up planet.

My son has already said he will not have kids due to global warming, and I completely understand that thinking. If my daughter had kids of course I would love being a grandma and I would love the child or children very much, but I would worry about their futures greatly. I'm afraid it's somewhat cruel to the babies to bring them into the world now, given the bleak outlook. Climate change has been so much more rapid and worse than I anticipated when I was pregnant with my two old Gen Zers.

Look around; we are in a state of ecological collapse.

Your comment was beyond short-sighted, IMO.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

48. I just think things are getting too dangerous and ugly.

I live in Florida and when you live there you are very aware of climate change and it’s only going to get much worse. Half of the people are in hell down here from the last several storms. We made it through this one but there will be another one that hits us. I hate the winters so I do not want to move back up North. I fear that we will have a WW3 or something close to it with this situation in the Middle East and Ukraine/Russia. A lot of kids will not be able to own their own home. Kids cannot have the same childhood I had in the 50’s and 60’s where you can go exploring by yourself on your bike and not worry about things. I know I’d be the type who would fret every time my kids went out. I feel that this world and especially this country is going to hell in a handbasket. Countries that used to be liberal are electing right wingers. And now we may have Hitler part two in our own country. It was quite a while ago that I felt like I’m glad I didn’t bring kids into the world.

[moreland01]

87. I've never for even one moment

regretted the decision I made at 17 to not have children. Everyone should do what they want to do. I'll be forever grateful for the generations that came before me that paved the way for me to make this decision. Your daughters and granddaughters may not have those same choices going forward.

[FalloutShelter]

3. I never wanted children either.

I clearly remember my cousins flocking around a newborn at a family party and they all wanted to hold the baby. I didn’t. Never did. Never felt an internal clock.
I knew very young I wanted to be an artist. I wanted paintings and knew if I became a mother I would never have them.
Every woman should have a choice. We are more than breeders.

[XanaDUer2]

5. I was also the one not intested in holding the baby

Happy to pay taxes that help families, but hard no

[FalloutShelter]

6. Same

[XanaDUer2]

8. The smell of baby powder

And feces is a special combo of nausea for me

[I_UndergroundPanther]

67. My sisters and my mom understood

My strong dislike of kids. My niece had a baby a year ago. My niece is bringing the baby for a party, my sister told me the situation and said it’s okay if you turn down going to the party.

I am glad neither my mom or my sisters force me to be around kids.

It would be a dream if I could find a way to avoid kids altogether.

[XanaDUer2]

68. And that's your right

Screaming crying kids disturb me and I cannot listen for long.

[Mossfern]

7. You are so right!

I was a painter. I got pregnant. I told people No Big Deal, I'll just put the kid in a playpen and do my work.
Needless to say I was quite delusional. My oldest is 46 and I just started painting again two years ago.

I must say though, that once I had that first child, I had three more. I just fell in love with being a mom. I found it challenging, fun and I learned to use my creative instincts in a plethora of other ways.

[FalloutShelter]

20. So glad your mothering experience has

Been so enriching and that you are back to your art as well.
Good on you.

[birdographer]

15. I can relate!

When a co-worker would bring a newborn into the office that she just recently gave birth to, everyone would crowd around her and coo and ooh. Not me. NOW--had she brought a little puppy in, I would be first in line to coo and ooh!!!!! I'll take a puppy over a baby and a dog over a child any day.

[Ocelot II]

34. Same here. Somebody shows up with a baby, the best I can do

is smile blandly and say something like, "S/he's, um, cute," and politely decline to hold the baby if the offer is made, especially if the baby's diaper is full (as usual). "Oh, I'm afraid I'll upset (or wake) him/her" (while actually worrying that said baby will puke on me). But if they show up with a puppy or a kitten, I'm all, "Awww, how sweet! Can I hold him/her?" And then I don't want to give the little critter back. I adore puppies and dogs and cats and kittens. Babies and children, not so much.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

70. Show up with a baby

I escort myself out of the room

Bring in a kitten I will fall in love with it.

Human babies just are not cute to me at all. They are gross.naked monkeys. I am not a fan of monkeys either.


A kitten I will fight everyone in the room to hold it and kiss the sweetness.

I adore all cats and will take bullets for them.

[Demobrat]

75. I have had to quietly leave the room in those circumstances.

So that my revulsion doesn’t show. Not that I care what the parent thinks, but I don’t care to discuss my feelings on the subject at work. It’s my business, nobody else’s.

[moreland01]

88. Somebody has to care for the animals!

I'm a puppy person too We raise guide dog/service dog puppies.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

51. Yep - I was the same. "Do not ask me to hold the baby" was what I'd think.

I had no attraction towards babies at all as a girl then woman.

[electric_blue68]

94. Were you able to pursue your artitic goals?

[FalloutShelter]

98. Yes, I have....

I’ve sold over one hundred pieces of art and have published three Illustrated novels with a fourth currently at the editor.

My insta handle is @susanzoondevlin
Thanks for asking.

[electric_blue68]

116. YW👍 Wow, that's great! ...

What kind of publishing company prints up illustrated novels?

When I think of illustration and books - it's either; children's books, or graphic novels (not "regular" novels). I've enjoyed looking at children's books for decades - though cut short from covid. I've read a few graphic novels here and there. Hopefully next Spring I'll get back to the bookstores maybe solnet

Was an old fashion paste ups & mechanicals person for several years. Did some graphic design. Didn't do much paid illustration. Did more unpaid illustrations.

I still draw. 👍
Want to get back acrylic painting.
Have a great cellphone digital art app, but w/o a stylish I can only do abstract, and semi realistic pieces.

If I get on insta I'll look you up

[Iris]

111. I love babies. Just never wanted any of my own.

[womanofthehills]

113. I always wanted kids & to be an artist

My dad was an artist so I grew up knowing I wanted to do what my dad did. Being an only child, I worried about my fertility when I was 10. I knew if I didn’t have a child, I would adopt one. I always knew from a young age I wanted to be a mother and an artist. I have a talented beautiful daughter, sweet grandkids and the love of my life - a really smart, compassionate & handsome great grandson.

[Diamond_Dog]

4. Every woman has the right to make her own decisions.

It is absolutely not the place of a politician to insult, dismiss, or otherwise disparage a woman who is child free. Vance is a special kind of POS.

[calimary]

18. A VERY SPECIAL kind of POS.

No surprise that somehow he and the donald would eventually find each other.

[CousinIT]

9. Can't blame you one bit. I had none (purposefully) for the same reasons! n/t

[Quiet Em]

10. It's grossly sexist that Vance and Republicans think

that having babies is the sole purpose of women.

[iluvtennis]

13. It's your freedom to decide - the government shouldn't have any control over our reproductive systems...NONE. Told

my daughters to live their own lives -- if they don't want children, don't have them. It's their choice and theirs alone.

[XanaDUer2]

28. Absolutely

[KT2000]

14. I have to ask

Why is he not talking about the men who are not supporting their own children? Why is he not talking about the family courts where children have to be removed from the home because they are in danger? Why is he not talking about low wages that put children at risk? Those are the real problems.

[Jmb 4 Harris-Walz]

22. Because he wants to have cheap and uneducated manpower for corporations manpower. Take away good

education, ensure the people have plenty of children, take away child labor laws as did AR Gov, you have lots of cheap labor in a decade or little more. Disgusting 🤮

[birdographer]

19. I wonder if he saw the new series on the Menendez brothers...

What about parents like that?

I never wanted kids--I remember questioning whether I had to have them way back when I was in grade school. My father did not like kids, and I am his kid through and through on that topic, with the single difference that I knew it before it's too late. Or he had us because Mom wanted us. While I don't know for sure the motivation, I will share that none of us, my two brothers and myself, had any interest in having children, and none of us did. I never had the patience for it. Much rather have dogs.

[Jmb 4 Harris-Walz]

29. I'm a childless dog lady 😂

I’m glad I don’t have kids but OTOH I did enjoy visiting my nieces when they were babies and young kids. Some women are just not cut out to have children and there’s nothing wrong with that. Republicans want to regulate women’s lives? Screw that. I’m relieved no child of mine will have to deal with the mess the Republicans have made of Earth in the near future.

[XanaDUer2]

33. These superstorms and raging fires

Are just the beginning. In a million years could I have imagined a hurricane would travel so far up into mountains.

I actually don't know where to move

[misanthrope]

105. Just for clarity

Helene weakened to a tropical storm in east central Georgia, long before it got into the mountains. And this wasn't the first time a tropical system has caused ruinous flooding in the Asheville area.

[TBF]

25. Churches have convinced some women that

their role is to be subservient to men and have children. It never made sense to me.

I do feel strongly that women should choose. If they want to put themselves in such a subservient role that is up to them - but don't put that on the rest of us.

Capitalists want cheap labor, so it's no surprise they want to encourage reproduction, and they even incent it by giving tax breaks.

When you realize everything is done by capitalists to add to and maintain their own wealth, the republican party makes sense.

[Demobrat]

26. I never wanted kids either. In fact, I most vehemently

did NOT want kids - starting at nine years old.
I could not care less what some creep like JD Vance thinks. Men like him are the reason women stay single.

[Jmb 4 Harris-Walz]

30. I like your name Demobrat! nt

[XanaDUer2]

36. Id be given babydolls as a very young child

Ewwww. Id chop its hair off and pour nail polish on it. Nope.

[Demobrat]

49. I was given a babydoll once.

I tied a rope around its neck, hung it from a tree, and tried to use it for a swing.

[XanaDUer2]

50. Lolol!

Yeah, babydolls were gross. My mom got the hint and then it was fashion dolls with cool outfits

[Mossfern]

65. Are you my daughter?

She made that decision at 9 years old as well.


I asked her why, and she said that she sees what I go through, and she didn't want that.

[Demobrat]

66. I'm the oldest of four. The first time I remember

gagging from the smell of a dirty diaper I was around eight. That probably had something to do with it.

[Mossfern]

69. Different daughter

Mine is the second of four.

[Jirel]

31. Agree.

For so many reasons, I have never wanted to breed. I’ll leave motherhood to people who have nothing more interesting to do that it’ll just interfere with.

We have to normalize childbirth and parenthood as just one of many options in life, never something that is expected. No child should be raised to think it’s “what one does” when they grow up. We are already overpopulated, and only people who strongly want children and really will happily dedicate their time and efforts to them, should have them. They should be rare enough that the government will support parenthood and children to give them the best options of success.

Yes, cities will shrink, and we’ll have more elders, and the economy will shrink. Those are good things. We need a world that makes it possible and desirable to maximize quality of life, not just expand like a cancer and leave all the people to sink or swim because there are endless more suckers ready to be used and abused and thrown away.

[LisaM]

95. I don't think you should knock motherhood as being uninteresting.

The whole point of choice is that people have the option to choose to have kids and find it interesting and fulfilling. By dismissing motherhood as a choice for people who can't find anything more interesting to do, I think you are undermining the concept we've worked so hard to promote.

BTW, I am one of those who does NOT have children. I like kids, it's just how things worked out.

[NoRethugFriends]

107. nothing more interesting to do? that's just ugly

[piddyprints]

32. What woman votes for vermin like him and Trump?

These women: https://upload.democraticunderground.com/10143321579

It's truly sickening. Any woman who attended that really needs to get psychological help.

I have 2 daughters. One did not have kids, mostly because she had trouble. The other had one son. She currently is married to a man who has 3 kids, now young adults, who are reproducing like rabbits. But it's their choice.

You're right about young kids being annoying. I told my husband that before we were married and he assured me it would be different when they're my own. It really wasn't. Sure, they were cute and funny. But there were times when I wanted to get a refund. It's not easy to be a parent and I wouldn't even want to attempt it these days.

[XanaDUer2]

38. Like I said, coworkers

Were struggling. They were Lucky grandparents were nearby. The employer-provided insurance for four was killing him.

[Siwsan]

42. I love kids but having my own was never a priority.

I wanted to travel and experience life without any extra responsibilities and I have no regrets. It's been an interesting life.

I've been extraordinarily close to my niece and nephews, ever since they were born. Any 'maternal instincts' were aimed towards them and my kid cats.

[XanaDUer2]

43. I knew I could not handle working

And mother hood. And I was not putting an innocent in that position with me. And I'm glad I had the choice

[EarnestPutz]

44. Married 54 years this week. Two daughters who I des ribe as the best thing....

....we ever did. Four grandsons, so we are just replacing ourselves, not adding to the population. Daughters and sons- in-law are all in education, in the public school systems. We are now on vacation in Turkey in an odd town called Olympos, at an odd outdoor hotel. Kids are running around, not in great number, having a wonderful time, like kids do. Not tens seconds before reading this post, I said to the Mrs , aren't kids great? To each their own, but this is my take on my life

[I_UndergroundPanther]

45. Kids are annoying

And I don’t like being around them. Toddlers crying drives me nuts. Where ever I am and a kid starts screaming I am out the door asap. Wish there were kid free bookshops,coffee shops and restaurants among other things.

Wish all apartment complexes had child free buildings where there would be no noisy destructive kids there.

Let the parents of kids deal with all the noise, chaos and damage kids bring.

I decided when I was in 5th grade I never wanted kids.

[XanaDUer2]

47. Looking at active 55-plus condos

But they are in hurricane alley. Thought about WNC, but too expensive and currently fucked up. I lived one place with earthquakes. I'm a nomad.

[Demobrat]

56. I can't stand the screeching either.

I have to travel sometimes. I would HAPPILY pay a premium for a childfree flight. I think all flights should be either childfree or family friendly. If you want childfree you pay more. If you have kids or don’t mind kids, you travel in an environment where they are expected and welcome. As it is now, everyone is miserable.

[NoRethugFriends]

52. Wow. Such anti children sentiment in this stream.

Of course perfectly fine not to want kids for whatever reasons.
Many people are not equipped to deal with kids and certainly shouldn't have them.
Should be a conscious and informed decision to have kids.

But some of the disgust with anyone's kids or babies I find very sad.

[llmart]

60. I agree. It seems like some of the people who didn't have children have a sense of moral superiority about it.

It's as if those of us who had children should be ashamed of it, like we're solely responsible for the health of the planet. I do agree with those who said it should always be about choice.

I would pose the question of what kind of planet would it be if the parents who gave us Jimmy Carter or Einstein or those who have done research that found a cure for some cancers? Or Dr. Fauci or Dr. Salk? What about those of us women who raised a genius who is also kind, compassionate and a functioning member of society and who is working on solutions for environmental problems?

It's silly to think that women like myself who really wanted to be a mother and who can honestly say they enjoyed the experience of raising children should consider not having any for the sake of the planet.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

122. Don't feel morally superior

I simply don’t like kids and do my best to avoid them. I would rather die then set foot in a chucky cheese.

I can be as anti kid as I wannabe
And the defensive people who assume all sorts of stuff about me because I don’t like kids are mistaken.

All you know about me is I never want to be a parent and I don’t like to be around kids.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

121. Just being honest

I don’t like kids and I do get disgusted by them sometimes (the barfing and snot sticky hands trying to touch me ick,and babies are not cute. I am sick of people telling me to not voice what I feel.or worse, I should not feel this way. No one is required to like kids.

[barbtries]

53. here's a really good discussion with a woman who got off the maga train

Last edited Sun Oct 13, 2024, 07:31 PM - Edit history (1)

her reasons (including internalized misogyny) for being there in the first place had a lot to do with her self identity being inextricably bound up with whatever man she happened to be with at the time.

?si=E8qACrd2wGT7tzCI

full disclosure: I still don't really get it, just to the point where I'm glad I don't.

[XanaDUer2]

55. Ty nt

[634-5789]

57. We never had 'em, never wanted them.

Besides, Hell, I can barely take care of myself, much less another little human, well, then there's these spoiled rotten dogs here, so there's that.....

[XanaDUer2]

59. Lol

My pay was always pretty low, too. I was in Florida. A wasteland of social services

[Iggo]

62. I never thought I was responsible enough to have kids. And I was right.

Still, I’ve helped raise two nieces (who are now 30 and 35) , and I’m helping to raise my 8 -yr-old nephew right now. And I’m good at that. Helping. But I was never going to be able to run the show, to be the last line of responsibility, and to plan for the future. Never. So I did the right thing and didn’t make my own.

I usually say that differently, making myself out to be the hero. But really, I’m just a fuck-up. And I was so scared I would fuck up my own kids that I made sure I didn’t have any.

[slightlv]

63. Sorry. Ended up long post, but I needed to get it off my chest. Please forgive me.

My pregnancy was a surprise, and proof that not all birth control works the same for all women. I was on too low a dose, besides having screwed up internals, I guess. The pregnancy was hard, dangerous, and I decided halfway through it never again. That was a good decision, cause the OB-GYN told me after the birth not to plan to have anymore children. Totally advised against it.

My daughter, far from being the child/person one could love and cherish was the exact opposite. Have had her to various psychologists -and- psychiatrists throughout her life. She manipulates everyone, which is why the last of them told us to take her home, he could do nothing for her. This was a military psych; she was in Guam at the time with ex-husband. Her dad and I had tried to get together, and she through a hissy fit until we split up again. I moved us up to be closer to my family for help and support, enrolled her in the catholic school where Sis taught, and the first week she wrote on the walls of the hall, "Aunt Lori is a bitch"... and then tried to deny it. When sis asked her who else called her "aunt Lori" she knew she was caught and just clammed up. She ran away with a kid to another state when she was 18... had two marriages and a kid by each husband... before I ever saw her again. She was in an abusive relationship with the last one, wanted to leave but had nowhere to go... so Mom said, come on and bring the kids. By this time she had adopted a 3rd boy. So, into my 1800 sq foot house they all came, and I tried my best to make them feel loved and welcomed.

Somehow (with help from her dad) she managed to get a loan for a $286,000 house (smdh). While I didn't tell her I thought it was a bad deal (it was... too much for the area and too small for the price), I did caution her to take a critical eye to what she was doing. 3 weeks after moving into her new house, she met a guy here. Moved out of her house and in with him. My two grandsons lived in "her" house. Oldest grandson is on the mortgage with her, so she's stuck unless and until she realizes she can't do anything with it without permission and recompense to him.

She threw out the kid she'd adopted when he hit 18. Ok... he was a shit... but I don't think he'd ever really gotten a chance to shine. My two grandsons got into a knock down/drag out, and she called the cops on my oldest grandson and had him put in jail. Took his car; --told-- him what she was going to do to "their" house... and basically threw him away. He's a damned good kid and I'm so proud of him, I'm busting buttons. But she calls or texts him just often enough to have that depressive effect on him. She won't have a thing to do with me. The youngest grandson ended up here one night in tears. He and the boyfriend got into an argument and they had blows. I told him he was welcome here anytime. My daughter is a narcissistic control freak, and the kids are paying for it. I am, too, in a way... because I refuse to be manipulated or controlled by her (or my mother, for that fact!) any longer. Besides, I adore having my grandson here. He keeps me feeling a little younger, he helps me out around the house, and I just have to get used to living in a "sears and roebuck catalog" house (LOL).

If I had it to do over again, I probably would have had an abortion. The pregnancy was that hard on my body, physically and chemically, it screwed the kid up in utero. She was 3lbs at birth; intrauterine growth retarded; and (I'm convinced) emotionally stunted for life. She messes up her own life, has tried to mess up mine, and -has- messed up 3 kids lives. THAT birth should never have happened, and it was only the family pressure (both immediate and extended) and "romance" thoughts of being a mother that made me continue. But the romance of the thought of pregnancy and birth doesn't jive with reality; nor with 18 years of sheer terror living with her, nor a lifetime wondering what she's gonna do next.

I applaud and support any woman who knows absolutely she doesn't want kids. I had my tubes tied as soon after giving birth as a I could. I wish they'd done it when they delivered by caesarian... but tho I was told "no more" I was too young to know I wanted "no more" (how dumb is THAT logic!). Thankfully, birth control never failed me again. There are a LOT of good reasons to not want kids. Not all of them are external, like some of the ones Xana wrote about. Some women just aren't good mother material. We're made for other things, and give our love to others in different ways. Not to mention what we can bring to the world with our art and creativity and business acumen.

There are women who ARE what I call "natural Earth Mother" types. They could have as many kids as I have critters, and be completely overjoyed. More power to them! CHOICE!! Just keep the crying, screaming kid out of my earshot, please!!!! What works for one doesn't work for another, and I'm saying trying to force, coerce, or urge one option on everyone is a recipe for a lifetime of pain, disaster, lost dreams, and tears for everyone but the controller. They sneak away grinning.

Do I resent my daughter? No... I still love her dearly, and will be there to help her out when she realizes this guy is just like the others. She'll marry him, no doubt, and a month after that want a divorce (smdh again). But I have long since given her permission to live her life as she wants... and I live mine. Besides, with a hubby 72 and subject to scams and malware, I have my hands full. And, for the first time in my life, kid or not, I actually feel needed - by both my husband and my grandson. THAT is a good feeling, and has given me a reason to do more than just wait for the end of my life to happen now that I'm retired.

[XanaDUer2]

64. Ty for sharing

[Demobrat]

78. I have a sister like your daughter.

Started lying as soon as she could talk, on drugs at 13, hard drugs at 16, stole everything in the house to buy drugs, arrested for car theft, scuzzy boyfriends etc. One of her boyfriends walked into the house and pulled a gun on me because he wanted the drugs she had hidden there. I split and let him take them.

Of course I was outa there at 18.

Anyway, I always said I didn’t want a kid because I was afraid it would turn out like her and I would have to drown it.

[slightlv]

97. Love your last sentence! (LOL)

I should have taken a hint with my Mom... and known that problem pregnancies and problem kids ran in the family! But I turned out great, so did Sis, and even my brother... although he IS a product of his time (very misogynistic and chauvinist). Mom, on the other hand, didn't had issues and so did her half brother (he was extremely mentally challenged... in a high security mental hospital). It seems to skip generations. My grandmother was always the sweetest woman you could ever meet... despite working as a hairdresser and dealing with old women all day. Seems like the farther we got from our Irish roots, the worse the family got!

[I_UndergroundPanther]

123. I think

Narcissists/sociopaths are born not made. It’s who they are and who they always will be.

[slightlv]

124. I tend to agree to at least a genetic predisposition.

There's a lot of shake out of cause and effect. But, I liken it to the amygdalas of Conservatives vs Liberals. Is the area of fight and flight and fear larger in them because it began this way prior to birth? Or was it nurture and life experience that added to that enlarged area? Do we start out one way, and nurture changes us in another direction?

I've always found these questions so interesting. Too bad I didn't do more research while in school or in my younger days, when all the memory marbles were there! (LOL)

[Skittles]

71. the pressure for people to have kids very much contributes to abuse

EVERYONE is expected to reproduce.

[XanaDUer2]

73. I'm my 20s

I asked a male dr abt sterilization and he acted like i was nuts and told me Id change my mind. Nope

[Demobrat]

76. Me too. He was wrong. I didn't.

[DFW]

79. Everyone will view this question through their own life's lens.

My wife and I had two daughters, and waited until we were 30 to do it, so we could have some decent time to ourselves, and not regret the time-out for child-raising. My wife shouldered most of the burden, since my job requires constant travel. Even so, I took more time out than most working dads can (nature of my job), and we're pretty happy with how our two daughters turned out. They, in turn, now also have two children each (ZPG), and all four of them are quite special. The oldest is six, and all four are at least bi-lingual, partially tri-lingual.

But you HAVE to want it. If you don't, then don't. Don't let anyone or any community pressure you into wanting something you don't want. I hope there is a special playce in hell for those who would deny an abortion to a woman or girl who is the victim of rape or incest. Whoever says, " God wanted that" is the cruelest kind of liar. Probably even the rapist didn't specifically want that. So don't force the victim to change the rest of her life because of it. The should be the right of nobody.

[electric_blue68]

92. When I was around 4 yrs 7ish wks old; I knew...

My Mom was changing my sister's diaper.
I was, like, thinking "Ewwwww! NO kids for me!!!" 😑 😄
Never had the urge.

And never looked back! Regrets? Maybe a .0000000001% very, very rare brief passing thoughts.

My energies have gone to (still do) to art-making, crafting, semi-activisism, political campaigns, going to parks & gardens, strolling my city (until covid, slowly gettin back to it but at 71 still kind of cautious), and museums, and hanging out w my family & friends.

Otoh, I truly support women who want to be mothers! Men who want to be fathers. They in general should get help if needed. Would I deny anyone help? I don't think so; bc the child is an innocent. Most people tend to try, and want to do well.

I usually easily coo over babies; most are pretty to very cute, but no urge to hold them. I've had the occasional little hand wrap around one of my fingers, side of my hand on the subway if a little one's hand somehow is in line w mine while they're being held. It's sweet.

As far as screaming, crying etc I can tolerate up to a point, then it gets annoying. What I have problem w is parents letting their toddlers, kids run wild in "captive audience" spaces: restaurants, subway cars, buses (least that's been rare), theaters, etc.
Parks in general, sometimes the streets are OK as long as their not running in front of you close by. It’s open.

I can chat w them for a bit to a while depends on age, what they're like, what they enjoy, etc.

Never had a problem like w taxes for school. I want kids, people to do well.

Women should Never be coerced to have kids.

[XanaDUer2]

93. Circa 72

Aunt changing baby cousins crappy diaper on the couch. The screams the smells the visuals. I'm out

[electric_blue68]

96. My sis wasn't screaming. Maaaybe a brief look, really not sure...but, ugh, the smell!

Not sure if I have a bit more sensitive
sense of smell.

[SunSeeker]

99. What woman votes for Trump? One who hates people of color more than she loves herself.

Last edited Sun Oct 13, 2024, 11:52 PM - Edit history (1)

[sinkingfeeling]

100. Me neither for about the same reasons. I also lack tolerance of people slow to

learn or incapable of doing something correctly.
I married young to a guy who wanted 6 kids. We divorced 18 months later, but I was pregnant with my son. Became a single mother with zero child support.

Yes, my son turned out great.

[no_hypocrisy]

101. I'm not the only one in my family without children.

My brother and my sister never started families. They could've adopted, but they didn't.

I may be speculating, but I get the feeling that we were traumatized in a very dysfunctional family, we just didn't want to take a chance that our (potential) children would be harmed by our family history.

I don't regret it.

If I want to hang with children, I substitute teach.

[D23MIURG23]

102. Same. Have them if you want, but it was never a high priority to me.

I think humanity is in for a rude awakening, and every new generation is more likely to feel the brunt of it. If people like Vance want to make babies to inherit that world then that is their right, but they don't own anyone else's body.

Who the fuck does Vance think he is telling everyone else what to do with their lives? Is this a free country or not?

[niyad]

106. The same here, both for the population and wage slave reasons, but also

fot the poor genetics involved if I had chosen to reproduce, plus being really poor parent material. I enjoy being "auntie" to my friends' offspring, grands, and great grands, because I can send them home, or leave myself.

I am so very thankful that I came of age when it was possible for me to make that conscious choice, even when it turned out other factors were involved.

[peppertree]

108. Hear, hear.

Reality is the only truth - and you described it just as it is.

[Figarosmom]

109. I dont know

Why would any man vote for him. He's the kind of guy most men hate too. The smarmy soft handed trust fund guy that gets all the pretty gold diggers

[Xolodno]

112. Didn't even have choice in the matter.

Wife has a very rare genetic mutation that almost killed her. Took a lot of specialists doctors to confirm it. And then find out her two previous miscarriages were a blessing in disguise. Getting pregnant was likely to kill her and if on the rare chance she could deliver to term, more than likely there would be a problem with the child. So, we walked away from that dream, that includes furniture, kid dvd's, etc. There is more I can say, but it doesn't help. However, our two cats fill a lot of the roles.

[msfiddlestix]

117. Religious fanatics who seem to be so insecure of their own agency they need a cult figure with a "Bible"

'and this phenom isn't just with Christo-fascists white nationalists, it's a common theme throughout every single major religion for the past 2000 years. In my view, they're all essentially cults, and followers will do anything, believe anything their leaders convey to them, and will follow to their death every edict, directive, order the 'chosen' cult leader dictates.

[Clouds Passing]

118. Strong supporter of women's rights to have or not have children!

My mother told me numerous times that she never wanted any of us gd kids. Much suffering to go through life as an unwanted child.

Descendents of the confederates who demand to have their slaves cannot win! NOT NOW NOT EVER!!!

[jfz9580m]

119. OMG DU is full of childless catladies!

Shame on you all..what would J D Vance say ???

K&R.

I have nothing against parents/kids (the cool ones). However, I have long felt that the planet is overpopulated and it is time to start moving to smaller family sizes as well as less consumption at least now.

Neither permanent growth of the human population nor of the economy are consistent with basic science and the topic is taboo for all the wrong reasons. We live on a finite planet. It is common sense that you cannot keep exponential growth going without exceeding the carrying capacity of the planet and straining society. Technofuturistic and economic psychobabble by dim witted billionaires on the topic assail common sense.

Extremism also seems to go hand in hand with exploding populations and the resulting strains on all resources-natural and human.

Democratic advocacy for smaller family sizes is an essential addition to other forms of environmental advocacy. Further, bringing it into the mainstream on the left (without shaming the pretty rare decent people who choose larger families) prevents the racists and eugenics types from hijacking it.

Cool thread XanaDUer. I like your posts. .

(Btw I blame those idiotic effective altruists as much as the religious nuts for the latest incarnation of pronatalist bs. It is why outlets like Vox -which are generally sensible - are so stupid on the issue and cry wolf about declining birth rates at a time when we are not even doing right societally by the people who are already here. Aging populations are nota huge challenge in an industrialised society. These tired and dated arguments need to go. Every damn service is strained by the sheer number of people who need to use it and we are still trotting out this tired aging population bogeyman?)