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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums'No Civilians. Everyone's a Terrorist': IDF Soldiers Expose Arbitrary Killings and Rampant Lawlessness in Gaza's Netzari
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-12-18/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-soldiers-expose-arbitrary-killings-and-rampant-lawlessness-in-gazas-netzarim-corridor/00000193-da7f-de86-a9f3-fefff2e50000Archived link: https://archive.ph/NVG4p#selection-935.277-935.451
A recently discharged Division 252 officer describes the arbitrary nature of this boundary: "For the division, the kill zone extends as far as a sniper can see." But the issue goes beyond geography. "We're killing civilians there who are then counted as terrorists," he says. "The IDF spokesperson's announcements about casualty numbers have turned this into a competition between units. If Division 99 kills 150 [people], the next unit aims for 200."
(snip)
"Calling ourselves the world's most moral army absolves soldiers who know exactly what we're doing," says a senior reserve commander who has recently returned from the Netzarim corridor. "It means ignoring that for over a year, we've operated in a lawless space where human life holds no value. Yes, we commanders and combatants are participating in the atrocity unfolding in Gaza. Now everyone must face this reality."
(Snip)
"That evening, our battalion commander congratulated us for killing a terrorist, saying he hoped we'd kill ten more tomorrow," the fighter adds. "When someone pointed out he was unarmed and looked like a civilian, everyone shouted him down. The commander said: 'Anyone crossing the line is a terrorist, no exceptions, no civilians. Everyone's a terrorist.' This deeply troubled me did I leave my home to sleep in a mouse-infested building for this? To shoot unarmed people?"

Autumn
(47,726 posts)AloeVera
(2,550 posts)Calling themselves part of the "most moral army" yet knowing the evil they are committing.
How does one deal with such cognitive dissonance? Will there be a moral reckoning for the army itself - akin to the reckoning coming for individual soldiers who cannot reconcile such dissonance? For Israeli society?
I'm not sure at all that will ever happen. There will be a huge cost to Israel either way, but much more if it continues on its current path.
Lonestarblue
(12,563 posts)The West Bank has been subject to their tactics of burning Palestinian homes, poisoning wells, and just killing civilians. Its no surprise at all what theyr doing in Gaza.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)those Trump-voting Arabs in Michigan and Pennsylvania.... Certainly their boy Donnie will fix it, right??
WhiskeyGrinder
(24,727 posts)Not sure what Trump has to do with IDF soldiers questioning their own morality, but here we are.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)spapeggy
(130 posts)Youd do anything with a tragedy
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)Even I've got my limitations, brah... 😌
EDIT: And folks had better get used to it... I'll be asking these same questions about the Trump-voting Arabs and Free Gaza college students tearing up their own campus every day until they start protesting Donnie
AloeVera
(2,550 posts)They think their lives are valued less by the West. Their deaths brushed off as collateral damage. Their kids not worthy of the protection and care afforded Western, American, Israeli children.
I can't say I blame them. Every day for over a year I've seen evidence of that.
Now if you translate those thoughts into feelings - despair, fear and a sense of betrayal - you might understand why many of them found it impossible to vote for more of the same.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)I guess they'll find out soon enough...
I'll tell you one fuckin' thing -- If they don't raise hell and protest Donnie at least as hard as they did Biden, they will officially be labeled "Enablers of Genocide" because that's how politics works... They were more than happy to slap that insult in my face on Twitter so now they can eat it for the next four years.
AloeVera
(2,550 posts)The crackdown on freedom of speech has already happened on campuses but will be much worse and broader under Trump. Scary times.
Perhaps the adage "better the devil you know than the devil you don't" doesn't always apply. Not when it comes to your own kin or tribe being killed, as one can't imagine anything worse.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)Iran funds Hamas... Iran provided equipment, weapons and training for the Oct. 7 attacks. Why is nobody saying they're "complicit in genocide"?
The Russian Air Force flattened entire cities in Syria, why weren't they also called complicit??
AloeVera
(2,550 posts)In the field of Genocide Studies, Genocide is generally committed by state actors against a weaker enemy. Usually an expansionist, well-armed regional powerhouse. Like Israel, for instance. Not by an occupied, oppressed and blockaded people who burst out of their cage to commit violence and terror against their oppressors and take hostages for the purpose of trading them for prisoners. Which btw is not at all consistent with genocidal intent.
I agree with the ICC that Hamas committed the crime of extermination on Oct 7th. Clearly crimes against humanity and other war crimes.
I do believe that Israel's crimes are just as, if not even more horrific and include the crime of genocide. That it has been allowed to continue shocks me to my core.
Imagine October 7th still going on a year later. But, unlike Gaza, that would never be allowed to happen, and that is a very telling difference.
As for Russia and its complicity, Western powers probably don't want to go there and set that precedent. It's not as if our hands are clean, either.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)I'm talking bigger picture
And like I said before, I don't have a dog in this fight... If the Israelis and Palestinians can't find a way to live in peace and harmony they can both burn for all I care...
AloeVera
(2,550 posts)That's the one part I agree with.
Big Blue Marble
(5,595 posts)Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)Big Blue Marble
(5,595 posts)This is about serious crimes against humanity. No government, including ours, anywhere in the world is
showing any inclination to stop this genocide. It does not seem to matter rather Democrats or
Republicans are in charge.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)All I want is to hear from the so-called anti-genocide Arabs who voted for him just to spite the Dems.
AloeVera
(2,550 posts)And that is not what your purpose appears to be.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)Oh, I see everyone has forgotten about that already...
AloeVera
(2,550 posts)This is about the current, actual genocide in Gaza.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)And my original point still stands, which is those Arab-American Trumpers up in Michigan are some goddamn hypocrites who now have the same blood on their hands they accused ME of having... I just want to see the non-stop 24/7 coverage of their "uncommitted" meetings now... I want to see their massive protests against Donnie. I want to see them DEMAND a fucking White House audience with Donnie just so they can walk out in protest like they did to Biden. I want to see them camping outside of mar-a-lago the way they did on Pelosi's doorstep...
Genocide or no fucking genocide, anyone who voted for the Nazi madman dictator is dead to me regardless what their intentions were -- And they're going to accept their share of culpability for the utter avalanche of shit that's coming down the mountain... Do not ask me to show a single iota of solidarity for Gaza anymore after they refused to reciprocate said solidarity with my political causes.
It's an uncomfortable but necessary line to draw, because right now I'm all out of fucks to give... I no longer feel sympathy or empathy for anything, just pure ice cold cynicism and indifference. This is the one path that will help me survive King Donnie's upcoming reign of terror...
malaise
(283,337 posts)Genocide and war crimes
That is all