This Is What I Cannot Understand

[FourScore]

Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 08:32 PM PST
This Is What I Cannot Understand
by grannycarol

Somebody tries, unsuccessfully, to blow up a plane by putting a bomb in his shoe.

So now everyone that gets on a plane has to take off their shoes.

Somebody tries, unsuccessfully, to make a bomb on board a plane using liquid explosives.

So now all liquid holding containers are banned from planes.

We are subjected to intrusive searches before boarding a plane because, well, even that 80 year old woman could be a terrorist intent on doing us harm.

And you know what? I don't feel any safer now than I did after 9/11.

Because no mater how many times it happens, nothing is being done to keep me safe while I'm out shopping, or at the movies, or singing songs at Circle Time with my group of preschoolers.

My director has scheduled a meeting Monday night to discuss the tragedy and to present plans for what our school can do in the case of such a tragedy happening here.. Really.

There are no places to hide in my classroom. Four year olds need to be seen at all times. The bathroom stalls have no doors- just paper sheets hanging across my eye level. The tables are two feet off the ground- nobody can really fit underneath.

I looked around my classroom on Friday and thought to myself, "Well, we could drop the kids out the window and tell them to run- but to where? Our school is on a mini campus with a grassy lawn and a parking lot in front and a playground in back. We are the only building on the block. Should the kids run out into traffic?

We are already a 'locked down' building. Nobody can enter unless buzzed in by the receptionist. Would that be enough?

I don't fear Al-Quiada. I fear someone entering the mall and opening fire at the Food Court. I fear someone hiding on a roof somewhere and shooting at whomever is there. I fear someone taking out a gun and killing because the gun is there and it works.

The debate on gun control is said to be a nasty one to start. But so was the debate on abortion. With all the regulations states have placed on clinics that make it impossible to offer the services, it has become difficult, if not impossible, for women to obtain abortions today.

How about the same regulations on gun providers. Start imposing impossible to follow regulations that would force them to shut down- leaving maybe one or two places where one can purchase guns and ammo.

Get rid of gun shows. Forbid private sales- you want to sell your gun- have a government buy back program. Make it just as difficult to obtain a 'well it's legal' gun as it is to obtain a 'yes it's legal' abortion.

Because removing shoes, and banned shampoo and patting down citizens is not keeping me safe.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/15/1170568/-This-Is-What-I-Cannot-Understand

[cantbeserious]

1. Yes - Repeal The Second Amendment - Outlaw All Weapons

eom

[GeorgeGist]

9. Don't forget the militia.

[Throckmorton]

17. Agreed

I can't own people anymore, nor can I deny women the right to vote, although when written the Constitution allowed both.
The Constitution as it was written was a flawed document, and remains so to this day.

[world wide wally]

18. How about we keep the second amendment to keep the "purists" happy, but...

It only applies to "arms" that existed at the time the constitution was written AND.. when purchasing a gun, the user must agree to become a full fledged militia member subject to being called up to active duty and any given moment.

Sound reasonable?

[Zoeisright]

19. I think that's perfect.

Right on the money of original intent. But I'd add they need to sign up for at least six months of full-time militia training, no exceptions.

[cantbeserious]

22. Hmm - Interesting Idea - Gun Ownership With Intrinsic Responsibilities And Implicit Risk

eom

[TinkerTot55]

23. I would respectfully suggest....

...that we have an organization in place that conforms to the Founding Fathers' vision of a State Militia, or may in fact supersede that idea : The National Guard. If people want to "protect" others, using guns, then join the National Guard. Or the military. IF they can pass the psychological testing and evaluations.....and there are some that can't.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

32. They would also have to pass the medical exam, physical tests, ...

... and be in a certain age range to join.

If you're too old, or have a physical disability of any kind, you're out of luck. You don't deserve any means to protect yourself or your family.

[SammyWinstonJack]

24. Sounds reasonable to me.

[FailureToCommunicate]

28. I LIKE that idea! And "serving" was not a walk in the park back then...

[lastlib]

20. hey, you're onto something there!

I can roll with that. Now we just need elected officials who will put it into effect and tell the NRA to STFU!

[RainbowOverTexas]

21. are you high?

If you repealed the 2nd amendment which is impossible then gun laws would fall under the 10th amendment. 43 states have a right to bear arms in their constitutions. So you would have to pass another amendment to ban guns again which would be impossible.

[AlexSatan]

25. Yes, and then outlaw drugs

Oh, wait. We already did that. And it worked splendidly.

What would lead you to believe it would go any better with guns?

[letemrot]

26. It would go as well as

Prohibition did. We all know that was a rousing success.

[world wide wally]

33. Every other western country in the world has alcohol available, but only in the US do we have this

insanity over guns

[randr]

2. The intimidation we all live under is

caused by a minorities sense of entitlement and authority by the ease at which they procure weapons.

[cantbeserious]

13. Yes

eom

[treestar]

3. People grasp at whatever they can to try to feel safer

When terrorism had just happened, we were all afraid of it - and even engaged in a war that would have done nothing to prevent it. There's pressure to "DO something" and often time the thing to do is think, but that's hard, and someone only has to come up with some viable plan - check every air passenger's shoes - and it seems like at least something is being done.

The answer here is pretty clear, it's just not immediate and is difficult, and so people want to find something they can DO now. We need to revise the Second Amendment. But that's hard and a long road. Is anyone even trying? What's the name of the organization? We can support and join it. We've heard of the NRA, but the opposition tries only for regulation which the gun nuts can oppose with the Second Amendment.

It's not 1780 and the founders gave us a way to change parts of the Constitution that become untenable.

[libdem4life]

4. All those are as a result of protecting "Us vs. Them". We are at a loss when "Them" become "Us"

...referring to the arms dealers and the huge profits made by society at all levels, up to and including our Ruling Class. It's one of the few, if not only major manufacturing segments that has not been outsourced. It's pretty obvious why. Also why gun control will likely not be seriously addressed.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. WELL SAID!

Omg, you have summed it all up with this comment:

I don't fear Al-Quiada. I fear someone entering the mall and opening fire at the Food Court. I fear someone hiding on a roof somewhere and shooting at whomever is there. I fear someone taking out a gun and killing because the gun is there and it works.

Same here. I'm not afraid of terrorists. I'm afraid of the gun-owning neighbors, of the gun-owners down the street, of the thugs who have stolen and or purchased guns legally, of the gun-owning right wing nutjobs who are ready to fire because they want to live out their psychotic dreams that the Commies are coming, I'm afraid of psychos grabbing their parents' legally-purchased guns and shooting children and teachers.

[Doctor_J]

6. The NRA and their sympathizers (gun culture)

are far more dangerous than Al Qaeda. They should be treated by sane Americans as terrorists - a clear and present danger to the entire nation.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

8. No doubt about it. Gun owners are terrorists walking amongst us, and there are lots of them. nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

29. What an utterly absurd statement.

Your irrational fears (yes, irrational...) are your problem. Falsely accusing gun owners of terrorism is inane and offensive.

[erinlough]

34. Not to me,

I live by a depressed gun owner, I take him as a persistent threat along with many more legal gun owners I know.

[Lizzie Poppet]

37. And that's perfectly reasonable of you, IMO.

Sarah said "all gun owners" (emphasis mine), though...and that's absurd.

[Starboard Tack]

35. A tad OTT, but not that unusual.

Some people do feel terrorized by the fact that 300 million guns are in circulation in this country. It's a lot more worrisome to most people than the thought of some Al Quaeda attack.
Most fear is irrational, especially when one studies the stats. Fear of flying is much more common than fear of traveling by car, yet the latter is far more dangerous statistically.

[Lizzie Poppet]

38. Very true.

Fear is an emotion. Threat assessment based on probability is not. The two forms of cognition exist in different realms.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

40. Are you kidding me? I don't have Al-Qaida living around me, only gun nuts.

I have gun nuts around me, and stats show that gun fetishism has led to constant shootings, but you want me to pretend gun fetishism is a healthy thing? LOL

[Lizzie Poppet]

41. Oh, "stats show" that, do they?

Do tell...

[coalition_unwilling]

36. The bartender at the nighborhood bar my wife and I frequent said it best last night. He

was cleaning some glasses and leaning over the bar to talk to us in sort of a half-whisper.

"I know," he said, "that within a 5-mile radius of here there are crazy people on the internet who fantasize about coming to shoot up this place. But what are you going to do?"

My wife and I had no simple answer for him. We both believe publicly funded mental health services need to be seriously ramped up and strict licensing requirements for firearms ownership implemented. But what he said rang so true that our pat little public policy wonkitudes seemed small consolation.

[longship]

7. Security theater!

Security theater is the practice of investing in countermeasures intended to provide the feeling of improved security while doing little or nothing to actually achieve it.

This principle was coined by security specialist, Bruce Schneier.

It is likely that none of the airport security measures stopped a single terrorist attack. Likewise, the schools will not likely do much of anything that goes beyond helping people feel safer without actually accomplishing much.

One may argue that this might be a laudable goal, but Schneier would ask whether it might be better to actually do things that actually improve security.

It is an interesting topic, and Schneier is one of the go-to people on it.

I wonder what he would say about this.

[2naSalit]

11. And another thing

Paintball is a game where people shoot each other with nonlethal weapons fro fun. It's still shooting people! And it's a lucrative sport. I saw that when it first became popular and figured our culture would come to this point sooner or later.

We need to transform our anger into something substantial by teaching everyone we know to recognize what's really important about life and living and to deter the default mantra of "us vs them" and someone has to hurt the other.

The sun is out for the first time in weeks, I need to go outside.

[baldguy]

12. It's difficult because elementary schools weren't designed to be impenetrable fortresses.

Nor should they be. But when the only logical & reasonable solution - to get rid of the guns - is blocked by political cowardice, what choices are left?

[Dustlawyer]

14. K&R! Get ready for a lot more cops in schools now! Oh, and get ready for more taxes to pay

for more cops in schools! What effect will this have on the kids? Our arguments need to be followed to their logical conclusions. If you care about the health and welfare of our children, you should support both reasonable and effective restrictions on guns, and more mental health opportunities to identify those with problems early. But that makes too much sense, and pisses off powerful, well funded special interests and their brainwashed followers! We need a bunch more pissed off voices and bodies to overcome their inertia!

[Atypical Liberal]

15. This is a GREAT analogy

Airline security theater inconveniences all of the people who use airplanes, the vast majority of them who are doing nothing wrong, and does virtually nothing to stop real, dedicated criminals.

Sound anything like gun control?

I think we can go a long way to screening out the criminals and lunatics if we simply require background checks for all sales, commercial and private.

One way to do this is with universal licensing, like Illinois does.

You don't have to forbid private sales, just make it the law, as in Illinois, that you can't sell to someone without a valid FOID, and if you do, make sure the shit hits the fan for them if they are found to have done so.

[Paper Roses]

16. Confiscate all weapons. Haven't we had enough?

Pay for them if we have to but get rid of the damn things!

[oldbanjo]

27. The police in the US do not have a job to protect you,

They only protect the people that they arrest. I'm 67 years old and of all the people that I have known in my life very few have been arrested, but of the ones that have most were cops.

[Igel]

30. A shoe bomber prompts security measure to prevent shoe bombs.

Lanza had to get through a locked door. There were measures to prevent this. They failed. Just like it really is possible to get a shoe bomb onto a plane. Difficult, but not impossible. The media discussed some of the possibilities.

The parallel to what's called for here is to ban shoes or sharply restrict shoe ownership.

It's what we did after McVeigh. A lot harder to build up a stockpile of ammonium nitrate if you don't have a valid reason for it.

Most of what I've seen is just a lack of social trust. We trust nameless, faceless people much more than those a quarter mile away that we run into in a mall or school. But what's funny is that many of those we run into in the mall are actually those "nameless, faceless" people we trust.

In an impersonal society, I guess, only the impersonal can be trusted. Bodes poorly for this society's expectation of life.

[TexasBushwhacker]

31. Can you lock your door from the inside?

Maybe all classroom doors should be kept locked. If someone needs to enter, they knock.

[Initech]

39. Agreed, I'm more afraid of someone walking into a mall or movie theater with an assault weapon....

Than I am of al Qaeda. What happened on Friday should be a wake up call - not another stupid bullshit ploy to get prayer in school. If that's where our priorities lie as a society then we're truly fucked up beyond repair.