Nancy Lanza feared son, Adam, was ‘getting worse’; told friend ‘he was burning himself ~ Daily News

[mzmolly]

Nancy Lanza feared son, Adam, was ‘getting worse’; told friend ‘he was burning himself with a lighter’



Less than a week before her son would launch his horrifying attack on Sandy Hook Elementary School, gun-loving mom Nancy Lanza knew “she was losing him” and that “he was getting worse.”

A drinking buddy of Lanza’s told the Daily News that her son Adam had long been troubled and rarely came up in conversation.

“She just looked down at the glass and said, ‘I don’t know. I’m worried I’m losing him,’” said the bar pal, who asked not to be named, of the ominous conversation at the watering hole My Place in Newtown, Conn.

...

“Nancy told me he was burning himself with a lighter. In the ankles or arms or something,” he recalled of a conversation they had about a year ago. “It was like he was trying to feel something.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nancy-lanza-feared-son-adam-worse-article-1.1221505#ixzz2FHiYsEn4

"Trying to feel something"? ... Perhaps he was seeking to feel something emotionally as well?

[Permanut]

1. This is really difficult..

but every scrap of information that we can get about perpetrators and events like this can be helpful in the future.

[mzmolly]

4. Yes. If nothing else,

information like this may help in the future.

My heart aches for every family impacted.

[Chorophyll]

2. This is tragic, and I am not trying to be an insensitive person, but

if she knew how bad he was getting, why, for the love of pete, did she keep unsecured guns in her home?

[mzmolly]

3. I completely

agree.

[cynatnite]

5. It probably never occured to her that he had this within him...

Or maybe she thought he was getting better.

Denial of what a son or daughter is capable of can blind anyone.

[Chorophyll]

6. But she clearly *didn't* think he was getting better.

I mean, look, there is no way to undo what's been done. But we can analyze and profile till the cows come home. The fact is, there were guns. And he used them.

[cynatnite]

8. The conversation was a year ago from what this article says...

I do think she was in denial about what he was capable of and how deep his disturbance went.

[mzmolly]

9. I agree to an extent, but did she think suicide

out of the question?

[Michigan Alum]

47. When a person is burning themselves or hurting themselves like that, it's serious cry for help.

She should have brought him to a crisis center.

[ejpoeta]

53. unless he admitted wanting to hurt others or himself,

they couldn't have done a thing. unless the laws in that state are different than ny. I admit it was a long time ago, but when I was admitted in the hospital, it was voluntarily and because I admitted to wanting to hurt myself, and my family forced me to stay, I was involuntarily kept there for 7 more days. That was in 1995... if the kid is an adult, i don't know how much the mother could do. but i do agree about leaving the guns where the kid could get them.

[Live and Learn]

55. +1 nt

[mzmolly]

63. The act of burning himself, would fall under the "wanting to hurt himself"

umbrella.

I'm not saying that Ms. Lanza had to place her child in a psych ward, but she should have moved her gun collection outside of her home.

[Chorophyll]

11. Yes, I realized that afterwards. Thank you.

But the firepower in that house... for what? Really?

[HooptieWagon]

36. Its possible that he enjoyed and responded well to going to a gun range.

Although she certainly could have stored the guns there.
I guess the only thing we can say with a fair degree of certainty is she had little to no inkling he was capable of an act of violence, let alone one so horrific. We're looking at it in hindsight, she doesn't have that opportunity.

[mzmolly]

46. But she had an opportunity to decide whether or not to own

semi-automatic assault weapons. And, by all accounts she knew her kid was suffering, mentally.

[TheDebbieDee]

50. But even if the mother wasn't in denial and knew her son needed more help, I don't think most people

here realize how hard it is to get someone mental health help if they don't want it or if they don't think they need it........

It generally takes some sort of criminal act to force someone into treatment .

[mzmolly]

7. She should have feared for HIS

life, if nothing else.

I wouldn't have guns around any person with mental illness. Even depression, frankly.

[Chorophyll]

10. Yes. At the very least. nt

[HooptieWagon]

14. How do you know the guns were unsecured?

Its possible they weren't, its possible they were and the son somehow got the key or combo. That detail hasn't been reported yet.

[BainsBane]

17. if he could get a hold of them

They clearly were not adequately secured.

[HooptieWagon]

23. They could have been secured, and he got access by force or stealth.

Status of gun security hasn't been reported yet

[BainsBane]

24. fair enough

best not to jump to conclusions.

[Chorophyll]

18. This kid having access to them = unsecured.

I mean, seriously now.

[HooptieWagon]

22. Kid could have stolen a spare key from father...

In which case the mother had the guns adequately secured, and the father was the break-down in security.
Until it is reported, its pure speculation if or how the guns were secured.

I would agree that just having the guns in the house with a mentally ill person was a risk, even if they were secured...one of several errors in judgement she made. She took him out of school because she didn't like their plan for him. She apparently was trying to treat him herself, rather than a professional? A pattern may be emerging of a woman who thinks she's smarter than the professionals. We'll have to see.

[JI7]

20. considering he was 20 and not 2 , why keep them in the home at all

[mzmolly]

26. Exactly.

eom

[HooptieWagon]

28. That's certainly a key question,

since she could have stored the guns elsewhere, if she was reluctant to sell them.
I don't think the woman was an idiot, and I think its safe to assume she would have removed the guns if she knew he was going to harm himself or others. So she probably figured whatever security she had was sufficient, based on how well she thought she knew her son.

Certainly if and how the guns were secured remains an unanswered question, as does the mothers decision to teach and treat her disturbed son herself instead of professionals.

[mzmolly]

42. She was a survivalist according to family

members who've spoken with the media. Sounds like she too, had some mental health issues?

[Honeycombe8]

32. Maybe they weren't unsecured, but he found the key? nt

[Drunken Irishman]

45. I've been asking this question all day.

[lbrtbell]

51. I wonder if she was afraid of him

Many parents of severely mentally ill people fear their kids, even though they love them and want to do what's best for them.

I'll never understand why she didn't have a gun safe. Maybe she thought she needed the ability to access guns quickly, I don't know.

[bklyncowgirl]

54. I've thought that too. Still it appears this woman made many errors in judgment.

The worst was, as far as we know, her failure to seek professional help for her son. She was a woman of means, not someone who could not afford to pay for psychiatric help. The second was to keep deadly weapons around the house. She may have thought she had it under control. No one wantts to see their child as a monster.

For all we know, she may have been a hero herself, shot trying to disarm her son. The combination of deadly weapons and mental illness is always tragic.

[Chorophyll]

56. How many guns do you need in a case like that? Do you need more than one gun

to protect yourself against your own child?

I can't even believe I just had to type that question.

We will always have mentally ill people among us. Guns are not helping anyone.

[libdem4life]

12. I just can't believe she didn't have the guns locked up. Somehow he gamed the system...he certainly

did at the school. And she doesn't sound like a clueless, uninvolved, in denial enabler ... I'm sure there had been mental health professionals and likely medication.

Sometimes the medication is worse than the condition. Especially if there have been "rounds" of trials...they have to take them for a while, even if they aren't helping or making it worse until it settles...then they are taken off usually too suddenly and put on another cocktail mix...kids are on a mental teeter totter...and often the anti-psychotics are so strong that it overrules feelings, no school, that's for sure, or if so, the kids know they are wierd, so the social life goes away...

[mzmolly]

13. Agree

on all counts. I think mental health professionals need to start recommending NO firearms in households with their patients etc. Perhaps regulations in this direction, would be something that could help?

[Honeycombe8]

34. So they'd cite her for a misdemeanor, and tape it on her coffin? Does anyone

really need someone to tell them not to have firearms in the house, if someone is mentally disturbed in the household? Seems like common sense to me. You can put them in a safe deposit box.

[mzmolly]

41. Apparently Nancy Lanza really needed

someone to tell her this, yes. Though I agree it's common sense, she seemed to lack it in this regard.

No comment on the coffin remark as I fail to understand the point.

[Honeycombe8]

72. Because there's no way to enforce such a law. That's the point. nt

[mzmolly]

73. I don't think Nancy Lanza would have broken the laws.

So, the greater point is that Adam Lanza would have had access to a handgun vs. a semi-automatic. Far less death and carnage in that case.

[hunter]

43. In 2011 Florida passed a law making it illegal for doctors to ask about guns...

... but it was ruled unconstitutional.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/09/health/policy/09guns.html

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=44993

It was a dumb-ass law anyways because having a gun in the house is ALWAYS "relevant to patient's medical care or safety or safety of others."

[mzmolly]

44. Leave it to Florida.

I'm glad that the law was ruled unconstitutional.

Thanks for the info.

[HooptieWagon]

15. How do you know they weren't?

That detail hasn't emerged yet, so statements one way or the other are pure speculation.

[JI7]

16. well, i can't believe she would keep them in the home at all, and not get rid of them

[HooptieWagon]

31. Well, yes...but we're looking with 20/20 hindsight.

I think she may have figured whatever security she had for the guns was sufficient based on her son's past behavior. Or perhaps she had become worried, and planned to remove the guns that day? Obviously, there's a lot we don't know about mother's reasoning and future plans.

[JI7]

49. no, i didn't need something like this to happen to know how fucking stupid it is

to keep guns in the home with a violent person. even without someone i consider to be violent i woudn't want to because accidents can happen.

yeah, we don't know everything, but from what we do know she doesn't come off so well.

[HooptieWagon]

57. He may not have displayed violence before.

You're jumping to a lot of conclusions before the facts have been made public.

[mzmolly]

59. If the article is true, he was violent with himself.

eom

[Pretzel_Warrior]

19. she's a wealthy mom that can afford all manner of help but her choice is home schooling?

just seems weird.

[mzmolly]

29. Home schooling often involves

tutoring etc.

[hfojvt]

21. "trying to feel something?"

My take is that a person causes physical pain for themself in order to cover up or be able to ignore for a little bit, the emotional pain they are feeling.

So I would not say he was trying to feel something emotionally.

[mzmolly]

25. I would agree, generally. But he had a disorder.

He could not feel physical pain. He also (reportedly) had autism, which might have created issues with appropriate empathy.

My thoughts are - IF he had trouble with empathy, he may have resented being different and not feeling emotionally or physically. So much so, that he decided to take his own life. However, before doing so, he wanted desperately to 'feel'. So, in his twisted mind, he committed the most horrible acts he could intellectualize, hoping they would bring him some emotion/empathy/humanity in his last moments. Killing your mother should bring about intense emotion and remorse. When that did not happen, he moved on to plan B. Something even more horrific than killing his own mother.

Granted, this is wild speculation on my part. I have no idea what his actual "motive" was.

[HooptieWagon]

33. Wild speculation or not, that's an interesting theory.

I think you may be on to something.

[mzmolly]

37. I'm glad it made some sense.

I'm tired and wasn't sure I sounded coherent.

[TwilightGardener]

27. Sad.

[HiPointDem]

30. everybody on this thread takes the word of a 'drinking buddy' selling her tale to the nydaily news

rag as gospel.

amazing.

[mzmolly]

35. Do you prefer the New York Post?

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/mother_made_kid_slay_madman_ojfQG64P9S35iQz9x3BmTJ/1

[hfojvt]

38. Well, according to NYDN verse 18

"Lanza’s anonymous pal had nothing but fond memories of the die-hard Red Sox fan who had season tickets to Fenway Park."


So why would he lie?



Actually I said nothing about the truth value of the story. My comment is that if a person hurts himself physically he is trying to ignore emotional pain, not to feel it.

[mzmolly]

40. Lanza could not feel physical

pain. Not sure if you saw that above or not?

Just an FYI.

[mzmolly]

39. BTW, Daily News has won ten Pulitzer Prizes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_News_%28New_York%29

The Daily News of New York City is the fourth most widely circulated daily newspaper in the United States.[2]

The first U.S. daily printed in tabloid form, it was founded in 1919, and as of 2012 is owned and run by Mortimer Zuckerman. It has won ten Pulitzer Prizes.[3]

[HiPointDem]

48. btw, their current editor is a long-time murdoch alumnus.

He returned to the Sunday Mirror in 1998, but resigned in 2001 after Judge David Poole ruled that an article he had published regarding accusations of assault against Leeds United F.C. footballers Lee Bowyer and Jonathan Woodgate risked prejudicing their trial.[5]

Shortly after, Myler moved to the United States and was appointed executive editor of the New York Post.[5] He returned to London in 2007 to become editor of the News of the World[1] and remained in post until the paper ceased publication on 10 July 2011.[7]

On 22 July 2011, Myler and former News of the World lawyer, Tom Crone, wrote to the Parliamentary Select Committee to clarify evidence given by James Murdoch in respect of the News International phone hacking scandal which had resulted in the closure of the News of the World.[8] They appeared before the Committee to answer further questions on 6 September 2011.[9]

In January 2012, Myler was appointed editor-in-chief of the New York Daily News.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Myler

[mzmolly]

60. Are you confusing

publications?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_News_%28New_York%29

[HiPointDem]

64. no

Type Daily newspaper

Format Tabloid
Owner Daily News, L.P.
Publisher Mortimer Zuckerman
Editor Colin Myler

[mzmolly]

65. Thanks. I found a bit more information on Myler's transition.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/01/15/tabloid-wars-colin-myler-leaves-news-corp-for-ny-daily-news.html

Time will tell if any information about Lanza is true. Respected media reported early on, that his mother was a teacher at the school. That turned out to be false.

[HiPointDem]

67. my point exactly. if they can't get easily verifiable stuff right, how much less trustworthy is

such anonymous gossipy stuff?

[mzmolly]

68. That's a good point. But we'd discuss very little here in terms of current events,

if we waited for the media to verify every story in circulation.

I didn't care for the tabloid wording of the story, but felt it was interesting if true.

[eShirl]

52. Sounds legit.

[ananda]

58. Answer me this.

If your child were burning himself, would you just sit on a pile of guns and do nothing?

[mzmolly]

61. Goodness

no.

[marlakay]

62. I don't know the lady

but she sounds like she was brain washed about the need to protect herself from government. Many republicans have this same belief system.

[libdem4life]

66. Self-mutilation is not uncommon...for girls it is called "cutting". They do it with razor blades.

and I have seen it in young children. It is a unconscious cry for help. An adult friend burned himself with cigarettes before leaping off a balcony. He was out in 3 days. He had had much mental health counseling.

Having been in the education system for a long time, I'm guessing Adam was suspended based on observation and/or inappropriate actions in lieu of medication. That is not "homeschooling"...to those who love to denigrate it...in this case it would be Hell for the Mom or anyone with him all day. Maybe he was caught smoking pot, as well...that is really one positive form of calming the emotions, although it can react with others, as well.

I'm guessing that he had had counseling...talk therapy...and it didn't help. It is very limited in effectiveness with serious mental aberrations. Also, he was likely given psychotropic meds that can really fuck with a young emotionally disturbed mind...causing voices, extreme withdrawal, suicidal tendencies, etc. It pisses them off and they can refuse to take it. Try to make a pissed off, disturbed adult son take a pill he doesn't want...not going to happen.

Mental health definitely needs to be increased, but the time, voluminous funds, still experimental nature of many of the drugs and the cocktails (more than 1, often 3 or 4) especially on young children, make it pretty much a wild-ass guessing game. His school had a psychologist who I'm sure did a referral, but they don't do counseling. The terms autistic and Asperger's came out ... vague and hard to pin down, but is consistent with loner, intelligent, etc.

And while these situations are not usually inclined to pre-meditated violence, what does fit is that he had he been put on some new medication/s because it was clear Mom was at her wit's end. There are studies throughout the internet on the terrible potential side effects of some of these psychotropic meds...especially on youth. Prozac and Zyprexa are among the worst. Suicide, increased depression, hearing voices, as mentioned above. Sky is the limit. They can really do a number and yes, it would be possible for him to be either in overdose or withdrawal or new meds or all three and plan revenge on his earlier elementary school.

Which leaves us with Gun Management (not gun control...worn out kneejerk phrase)...Legal Gun Registration.. A process of Education and privilege and oversight and licensing and rules and registration and mechanical upkeep and inspections and insurance and penalties that are required to have the privilege to drive a car. One poster called it Gun DNA.

When grandma gets too old to drive, they take her license. When a kid does something stupid, they take their license. When a drunk gets stopped in a car, jail. Add in a DUI , do time and pay for a very long time. You have to do certain things to get the privilege reinstated.

Ditto guns. A Department of 21st Century version of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. The private arm... the NRA has stepped way out of its useful bounds and into the proliferation of corporate profits on WMD and profiting over the from the graves of children, shoppers, students, et al., then adds to the fear of those still alive. This, and the media, and blaming the mental health system is all "good news" for them.

Legal gun owners, just like legal drivers, should support this type of program, out of self-preservation. If too many of these horrendous tragedies happen, then yes, the Control Folk with ultimately take over.

[GumboYaYa]

69. I read this and all I can think is whatthe hell was she doing with deadly weapons floating

around her house. If she knew the kid was this troubled, her guns should have been out of the house or under lock and key so that only she could get to them.

[nc4bo]

71. She was comfortable, perhaps too damn comfortable.

Much like some parents of younger children are comfortable with insect killer, mouse traps, household cleaning products, liquor in the house, as long as they're out of reach or locked away from fingers. After a certain age, we become comfortable and never give it a 2nd thought those things which could still be used by someone in the home to hurt or kill if one were careless or misused by accident or deliberate intent. When they're older, we teach our kids what to do with those products and never give it much thought.

Not to sound trite or overly simplistic but perhaps the mother felt confident that her kid would never do anything harmful or cause harm and she was comfortable knowing that she trained him on those weapons, they practiced together, etc. - nothing to worry about just like pesticides, mouse traps, cleaning products, liquor, gasoline or propane stored in the garage.

Fatal, tragic mistake.

[ck4829]

70. Obviously, he had way more issues than what we're being told