I hope Joe Paterno apologized for his role in the coverup before he died

[bluestateguy]

I hope he did, because otherwise a higher judge will not be pleased when they meet.

[rustydog]

1. Aren't you supposed to ask the LORD for forgiveness?

Forgiveness on earth means nothing at the pearly gates.

Of course this is my view and I'm stuck with it.

[southernyankeebelle]

2. That is what I was thinking. We have no right to judge him. We still don't know his whole

story yet. I hold it for now and just say may he rest in peace.

[lunatica]

7. The words came out of his own mouth

He waited so as not to 'disturb' anyone on a Saturday and then didn't call the police or have Sandusky fired or even banned from the sports showers or facility. He said all these things.

[NavyDem]

8. Well...

God is a Nebraska Cornhuskers fan, and he's still pissed about 1982.

[southernyankeebelle]

12. LOL, my heart bleeds for you.

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

3. The briefness of clock movement, suggests that your hope has been satisfied.

However, your rapport with the Divinity appears insufficient to realize it.

[southernyankeebelle]

15. If Mrs JoePa had any remorse for the abused kids maybe she would have a private funeral. This

shouldn't be on tv. They can have something later on. Personally I thought they should have cancelled the rest of the season. That would have shone that they really do care about kids. But again the green back always wins out. Be damned doing the right thing.

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

36. You appear to be equipped with the all of the factual details related to this matter.

I am not as intimately involved; thus, I do not have enough information to process a rational judgment.

I am curious as to the nature of the considerations that led you to conclude that the remaining games should have be cancelled. When I consider that many of the players are the same age of the victims, it seems irrational that you would advocate causing injury to them. Likewise, the opposing teams remaining on the schedule, would also have injury inflicted upon them.

The rational possibility I can consider, is that you have seen the evidence that implicates all others.

[southernyankeebelle]

38. Life isn't fair, is it? The university know what was going on. I can't think of a better way to

show any and all schools that no one is above the law. I personally would have taken them out the following year also. I would think the students who's primary reason they go to college is to get an education and not play football. Colleges need to start putting priorities first. Yes many of these students are going to get a raw deal. But what a lesson they will learn in the long run that their school thinks more of their coaches than their players. What a terrible lesson some of these young men learned who were raped.

I want to tell you that I had alot of respect for Joe P. and his university. Power sometimes tend to let people not to the right thing. Where I blame him is he knew he had a man that raped children and didn't fire him. He could of at least done that much. He didn't because they were close friends. He knew alot about Sandusky yet I wonder why he never reported him to the police department. Joe P. was highly loved and rightlyfully so but it comes down to he had the power to fire Sandusky and he didn't. Like I said the coaches and players were more important than the young men that were raped.

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

49. "Life is not fair"

The phenomenon of human reality that is my being; governed by reason, sees that truth. It does not see the rationality of inflicting unfairness.

However, it does recognize that your view of unfairness is becoming a more wide-spread and developing trend.

The misguided cruise missile is the unfairness of collateral damage. The unintended consequence of legislative endeavors is the unfairness of protecting democracy. The sledge hammer approach to driving a finish nail, is the unfairness of "learning a lesson."

Despite casts aside reason.

[southernyankeebelle]

51. I am against war. Believe me I am against war. However, I will say one thing about sports.

The world will not end tommorrow if the game isn't played. There are so many more important things in this world to worry about than any sports. You have your opinion and I respect it. I have mine when it comes to sports. Really life is not all about the sports. People go to work everyday trying to make a living and doing the right thing. That is my opinion and am entitled to my feelings.

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

53. "People go to work everyday trying to make a living"

And some of them go to work everyday trying to make a living selling popcorn at football games,to spectators who were assisted by people who go to work everyday trying to make a living facilitating and scheduling the buses and airplanes, that people go to work everyday trying to make a living driving or flying, to distant locations where people who go to work everyday trying to make a living providing lodging accommodations for hungry travelers...

that recognize the magnitude of value that popcorn is to humanity. I shudder to think of living in a world where popcorn is no more. For the consumption of popcorn is a pleasure I hold in the highest regard.

I respect your opinion, but I am still trying to understand it.

[southernyankeebelle]

54. I love popcorn myself. I pop it often at home. I don't know how else to tell you except I like

posting with you because your not combative. I like that. I see your point. My only basic point is I hate sports. I use to love it but seeing to many players doing things that aren't right. I think if they had been taken care of when they were in high school we wouldn't see some of the bad behavior on a national level. I even use to like to watch the Olympics but after the T. Hardin deal I said it wasn't worth it any more. Seeing real basketball players playing in the Olympics that was it not right. So I know what your saying but I can't help the way I feel about it.

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

58. The sign above the corridor indicated darkness, but upon entering,

I was pleased to see that you had placed a light so close to the entrance. It assisted me in adjusting to the darkness and assured me that I could return, if became too dark to navigate.

I think your uneasiness stems from the departure from the field, of joy, pleasure and fun; and the loss of meaning of the game itself.

I understand.

[southernyankeebelle]

61. Thadd you give me that tingly feeling up my leg. Your words are poetry to my heart. Don't worry I

found other things to fullfill my life. I will live. God bless your little heart.

[ChazII]

4. It is between Joe and the higher judge. n/t

[customerserviceguy]

5. Higher judge or not

It's still going to be awkward at the memorial service for a lot of people, including the media who have to decide just how much coverage to give it. Of course, it would have been a national day of mourning in Pennsylvania if this had happened a year ago, but as for now, I don't even expect Santorum to mention anything.

[Eddie Haskell]

10. It will be the biggest funeral in the history of the State.

You have no idea how much he was loved.

[Critters2]

11. What message will that send to the victims and their families?

Oh, right. Who gives a fuck? This is about football!

[southernyankeebelle]

13. That is the very message they are giving. Pretty sad state of affairs. But then again

America has changed.

[CANDO]

20. STOP!

Joe Paterno didn't ass rape little boys. He didn't condone it either. He apparently didn't follow up like most of us would with the benefit of hindsight. Get off your damned soapbox and project your righteous indignation where it belongs... toward Jerry Sandusky.

[Critters2]

21. He didn't call police or children's services.

That was his job as a human being. He was more concerned about football than about children.

[lapislzi]

43. If I could ask Joe Paterno one single question...

it would be, "if it was YOUR kid getting raped in the locker room, would you still have kicked it upstairs?"

[Whisp]

46. exactly.

but dispensable kids were raped, so that is ok. Big shots like Paterno have special little places and rules that don't apply.

sickening.

[ZombieHorde]

16. He was loved more than child rape is hated apparently.

Entertainment is the one true god.

[Eddie Haskell]

17. You don't know nothin bout JoePa

or Penn State.

[ZombieHorde]

18. Please enlighten me. nt

[Critters2]

22. Yeah, I want to be educated, too.

[joeglow3]

32. I think he means child rape is not hated at all in Penn State.

[obamanut2012]

23. It's very sad if both of the things you said are true

[Skidmore]

6. I thought that he didn't die and that his death was an erroneous report.

[NavyDem]

9. It's on the front page of ESPN now

Says he died this morning.

[aaaaaa5a]

14. Agreed.

This man built his legacy on the back of unpaid labor, propping up a system that takes advantage of young college kids. Then he turns the other way and ignores a sexual predator preying on young kids right under his nose. And today he is suppose to be remembered as a hero.

[trumad]

19. Unpaid labor...LOL

Of course you forget the 4 year scholorship.

[aaaaaa5a]

24. Um... Football Players are only given 1 YEAR SCHOLARSHIPS.

If a payer is injured or does not meet the standards set by the coach, he could lose his scholarship. (Yes.. academically UNRELATED). Likewise, if a new recruit comes in and takes his starting job, he can be cut from the team and thus, lose his scholarship.


A player at Penn State who was on the football team and played 4 years, did so on 4 ONE YEAR SCHOLARSHIPS. And trust me, such circumstances are EXTREMELY rare.


Say you have a player who goes to Penn State on a football scholarship. On the first game of the season he blows out his knee. His scholarship is gone! And trust me this scenario happens more often than you think. And oh yea, try studying while doing your FULL TIME JOB which is playing football for the University. The system rules and regulations that govern big time college athletics borders on indentured servitude.

Please google the stories about college football players with no money walking past store windows where jerseys with their personal name on the back, sell like hotcakes. And they receive nothing in return.



College sports works much differently than what the general public thinks. And the college athletes of major division 1 football programs really get screwed. They make a ton of money for million dollar coaches. They build brand new buildings and facilities to attract students and build University prestige. They even directly fund all of the other sports on campus (except men's basketball at some universities). And in return, they largely get nothing but exploited.

[trumad]

25. Bullshit about losing your scholorship if you lose your starting spot.

Its called 2nd string and 3rd string and you don't lose your scholarship.

Never seen you in the sports forum.... you sound like an expert so why don't you join us.

I'm all for paying the players but you're being incredibly misleading about NCAA scholorships.

[aaaaaa5a]

26. Actually, I live in sports forums.

And if you think that college players don't lose scholarships because of poor play... it is you who has been misled.

The ugly side of college athletics is rarely if every talked about.

HBO's Real Sports has done a lot of stories on the truth about college athletics. They discuss the sham of bowl games being set up as "non-profit" venues. The 4 year scholarship myth. The low graduation rates. The abuse of players. And of course, the Universities #1 labor source not being paid, while they reap in millions of dollars. The show is just one of many good sources that can help all of us better understand what college athletics is really about.

Here is a quick link highlighting one story they did last year.

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/3/31/2082279/hbo-real-sports-report-ncaa-auburn-football


BTW... I am always looking for interesting sports (or political) forums to join. If you have one in mind, I would love to be a member.

[aaaaaa5a]

28. I would be interested in your feedback

http://www.hbo.com/real-sports-with-bryant-gumbel/index.html#/real-sports-with-bryant-gumbel/episodes/0/174-episode/video/cashin-in-clip.html/eNrjcmbO0CzLTEnNd8xLzKksyUx2zs8rSa0oUc-PSYEJBSSmp-ol5qYy5zMXsjGyMXIyMrJJJ5aW5BfkJFbalhSVpgIAXbkXOA==



Here is a good discussion on the topic. (These two links are probably most important to the discussion)

http://www.hbo.com/real-sports-with-bryant-gumbel/index.html#/real-sports-with-bryant-gumbel/episodes/0/168-episode/video/college-sports-part-one.html/eNrjcmbOUM-PSXHMS8ypLMlMDkhMT-VLzE1lztcsy0xJzYeJO+fnlaRWlDAXsjFyMjKyMbJJJ5aW5BfkJFbalhSVpgIATuUXOA==


http://www.hbo.com/real-sports-with-bryant-gumbel/index.html#/real-sports-with-bryant-gumbel/episodes/0/168-episode/video/college-sports-part-two.html/eNrjcmbOUM-PSXHMS8ypLMlMDkhMT-VLzE1lztcsy0xJzYeJO+fnlaRWlDAXsjFyMjKyMbJJJ5aW5BfkJFbalhSVpgIATuUXOA==

[trumad]

33. look...Im

Not saying the NCAA is the model of wondrous virtue...I'm simply calling you on your description of slave labor for college athletes. Its pure bullshit.

[aaaaaa5a]

34. Sounds like back-tracking. nt

[trumad]

35. What by me saying your argument is bullshit?

Slave labor for a football scholarship---you sticking to that?

[aaaaaa5a]

39. You are wrong again.

I didn't call football scholarships slave labor. I said at the division 1 football level, they amount to "indentured servitude." Indentured servitude vs slavery is a big difference.


I also said football scholarships were done on a year by year basis and NOT automatic 4 year increments as YOU CLAIMED. I assume you have finally done a little homework on the issue, because it appears as though you are quickly dropping that factually false post you wrote.

Please... if we are going to have a little "flame war" lets stick to the facts of what was actually said... okay?


It's not B.S. to disagree. It is B.S. to make claims that are untrue.

[LynneSin]

42. I wouldn't call it slavery OR indentured servitude

I mean even if we went with 'indentured servitude', which is a bit better than slavery, I would hardly call that of anyone playing college sports on a scholarship.

I mean first, taking a sports scholarship is a CHOICE. Last time I checked, with indentured servants there was rarely a choice for the person who ended up in that position since usually it was a parent or spouse that was selling someone into that position.

And although both scholarship players and indentured servants received things like housing & food - the quality of what the scholarship player receives I suspect was 100000 times better than what indentured servants were received. Back in Colonial USA times, indentured servants were like a step above a slave.

[trumad]

44. Your original comment:

"This man built his legacy on the back of unpaid labor, propping up a system that takes advantage of young college kids".

The cost of an average 4 year degree is 80,000.

A football player who receives a full 4 year scholarship, and completes the 4 years gets--- an $80,000 degree--- food and board for the full 4 years, and in most cases free tutoring, etc.

Your second comment:

If a payer is injured or does not meet the standards set by the coach, he could lose his scholarship. (Yes.. academically UNRELATED). Likewise, if a new recruit comes in and takes his starting job, he can be cut from the team and thus, lose his scholarship.

Well of course a player can lose his or her scholarship for a multitude of reasons... refusal to play, poor discipline, and many other reasons---just like you can lose your job in the corporate world.

Injury? You will not lose your scholarship if you blow your knee out on your first play---pure horseshit. Not sure if you know this--- modern medicine is pretty good nowadays and they can fix knees, rotator cuffs, etc. Your statement is completely false.

And finally--- you lose your scholarship because you lost your starting position? You don't play sports do you? It's called being dropped to second or 3rd string. Oh sure---if you can suck it so bad you'll be dropped to the practice squad---but lose your scholarship---no.

I'm sure you'll Google and find some rare instance to prove your point... but the points that you have already made are bullshit.

[aaaaaa5a]

50. Again, you take assumptions...

Last edited Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:46 PM - Edit history (1)

that are not the median or even the average for big time D-1 College football.

1) The cost of a 4 year degree might be 80,000 dollars, but again and hopefully for the last time, players don't get 4 year scholarships. They get 1 year scholarships renewed at the school's discretion every year. Very few players in D-1 football reach 4 years. In essence, its the dangling carrot nobody ever reaches.

2) Normally you would be correct. However the injury rate in football is higher than what you would find in other sports. The risk of losing your "job" or scholarship to injury playing football is far higher than in other sports. Secondly, this isn't the corporate world. It's college. If it were a job they would be paid. In addition it is absolutely possible and perfectly legal for a student to lose his football scholarship despite being in good academic standing with the school. If the play on the field doesn't measure up to very subjective standards, the player loses his scholarship. Or more correctly, the scholarship is simply not "renewed" the following year.

3) Your statements regarding player injury is flat wrong.

4) You absolutely can lose a scholarship because of poor play. Even worse if a player wants to transfer for to another school, under NCAA rules the player must sit out a full year, before he can participate. This is done to try and limit the extremely limited power of players already "locked down" in 1 year scholarship offers. Basically coaches can move at will. Players are stuck.

5) I think you need a better education as to how college football really works.


Finally, I would be interested in any source material you could provide. You are very skilled at using vulgar language, and stating commonly held themes regarding college football. However you are very short on factual information.

[trumad]

55. ok

1) The cost of a 4 year degree might be 80,000 dollars, but again and hopefully for the last time, players don't get 4 year scholarships. They get 1 year scholarships renewed at the school's discretion every year. Very few players in D-1 football reach 4 years. In essence, its the dangling carrot nobody ever reaches.

Then give me a percentage of athletes playing college ball that don't make it the full 4 years? You keep saying this without any percentages...just because you say it don't make it true?

2) Normally you would be correct. However the injury rate in football is higher than what you would find in other sports. The risk of losing your "job" or scholarship to injury playing football is far higher than in other sports. Secondly, this isn't the corporate world. It's college. If it were a job they would be paid. In addition it is absolutely possible and perfectly legal for a student to lose his football scholarship despite being in good academic standing with the school. If the play on the field doesn't measure up to very subjective standards, the player loses his scholarship. Or more correctly, the scholarship is simply not "renewed" the following year.

Again---show me the percentages of this happening. What do you mean by play on the field? You first stated if you lose your starting job you could lose your scholarship---that's what you said. I debunked that pretty easily with the 2nd or 3rd string and practice squad scenario.... Define poor play--- is that being so bad you can't be a back-up?

Source material? You're fucking funny---you haven't provided any source material and keep re-framing every time I debunk your goofy shit.

My source material is friends of mine who were college athletes--- women and men... all with 4 year degrees obtained through athletic scholarships.

[11 Bravo]

45. My son is currently playing baseball on a scholarship, and at least from our perspective ...

you're sadly misinformed. The coaching staff monitors his academic progress and provides assistance when it is required. He made the Dean's List for his first semester and is slated to start as a freshman. The NCAA ain't perfect, but your broad brush bullshit is laughable.

[aaaaaa5a]

48. College baseball is not the same as big time Division 1 football.

What goes on in revenue producing sports is very different from non-revenue producing sports at the D-1 college level.

[Brickbat]

27. I hope he understood how badly he fucked up before he died.

And I hope he realized it wasn't worth it.

[aaaaaa5a]

29. I highly doubt it. People like that live in a bubble. nt

[Brickbat]

30. Yeah, I know...a girl can hope, though.

[joeybee12]

37. I don't think he did...

That last interview with the Post was simply a last ditch attempt to redeem his reputation.

[LynneSin]

40. JoePa was a pretty religious guy. I'd like to think that the firing made him realize...

that he should have called or made sure someone had made the call.

I feel bad for the guy.

I mean at 85, cancer is something tough to beat but maybe he could have beat it if he had something to look forward to like another season of football. I think JoePa always wanted to do the right thing but Sandusky probably convinced him that he would change - that he would stop molesting children. I think JoePa was someone who if a person he was close to said "I won't do that anymore" that JoePa would want to give that person the benefit of the doubt.

As much as I hate the fact that JoePa didn't push to call the cops (or call them himself) and I believe his firing was the right thing to do - I do realize that this guy is a legend and the good that Joe has done for Penn State & Pennsylvania will far outweigh the one bad thing he did - not make sure that Sandusky was reported to the cops on that fateful night.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

57. He was a football coach.

Why in the hell does that outweigh the fact that he allowed a pedophile to operate, "I will change" nonsense or not? You people talk about him like he was the second coming. Football means nothing and will continue to mean nothing. It is a game.
Ridiculous.

[radicalliberal]

62. "I think JoePa was someone who ...

... if a person he was close to said 'I won't do that anymore' that JoePa would want to give that person the benefit of the doubt."

Who would believe an admitted pedophile's claim that he wouldn't do "that" anymore? Are pedophiles known to be trustworthy in that regard? If some guy confessed to raping a young woman and claimed he woudn't do it anymore, would you ("you" meaning anyone who reads this question) give him the benefit of the doubt; or would you report him to the police? Does giving the rapist a second chance take priority over seeing that justice is done, not to mention protecting would-be victims? Any rapist should be reported to the police, period. End of story. I've personally known victims of pedophilia (including incest) whose lives as adults were ruined.

Incidentally, I wonder what the reaction would have been if the victim (instead of a number of victims) had been a local high school girl or a coed and the perp (instead of being a coach) had been a player (or, in the case of gang rape, several players). I expect the reaction would have been "She's lying; she's just a golddigger" or "She was asking for it." The extent of outrage would probably be considerably less.

[madokie]

41. You really believe what you just typed?

[B Calm]

47. Never met a republican yet that had the courage

to man up and apologize.

[Bill O-Rights]

52. It's a moot point because

http://www.godisimaginary.com

[YellowRubberDuckie]

56. Here's my question.

How does being a winning football coach make you a good human being? And any good that may have been, well, wasn't that all wiped out when you decided to overlook the fact you were employing a pedophile who was using your operation to rape little boys? So you think telling your boss of the situation washes your hands of it? As a human being, the mere calling of the cops or alerting social services might have secured the legacy you apparently so covet. But what's the innocence of a few little boys when you're winning a game?
I don't think just asking for forgiveness from the victims or your dear and fluffy Lord really makes a damn when it comes to something like this.

[DeathToTheOil]

59. "his role in the coverup"?

What role? He reported it. That's more than a lot of clergymen have done!

[Critters2]

60. Yeah. There are worse people than him. There are also a lot better. He did the bare minimum,

not a centilla more.