General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt just occurred to me why they may not want to return Kilmar Garca
I might be off base, but it seems odd that this one man is the hill they're willing to die on. Just one guy they could easily return, but they hold steadfast.
García can talk. He can describe in frightening detail the kind of un American torture being administered by Trump and his heartless cabinet. It may well be beyond what we even imagine, like Holocaust level. Something they have no qualms about but don't want to be all over the global media.
If it comes down to Trump being cornered into returning him, he may just meet with an unfortunate "mishap" in prison.

chicoescuela
(1,965 posts)OLDMDDEM
(2,465 posts)anymore.
ReRe
(11,569 posts)Hell, they could have killed all 260 after Christi's infomercial was done. That's why they say none of them can be returned for due process rights?
redstatebluegirl
(12,661 posts)I hope not, but it makes sense. 30% of the country would think that is ok. That is terrifying....
usaf-vet
(7,469 posts)gab13by13
(27,806 posts)Garcia is a test case for Krasnov to take control of the judiciary by ignoring its rulings.
Krasnov has control of the legislature, is working on the judiciary and military.
bluestarone
(19,649 posts)We have got to come up with something. Hell, we can't even enforce a supreme court order. (the one i'm thinking about is Immigrants must be given notice, and a hearing before being moved out of our country.) How is that gonna be enforced? That's the answer we need, and need fast. Somehow there has to be a way for judges to deputize there own marshals. Judges have to make a move on this. Like you mentioned, this is all a court testing situation. They keep getting away with this crap, they will win. Hell, the point will come that they won't even listen to Congress decisions as well. These bastards figured out a way to STEAL our country from us, that's for sure.
Cirsium
(2,364 posts)A mass popular uprising is the only possible effective response. People are still looking to elections, legislation, and lawsuits, and for some strange reason are ignoring or dismissing the one thing that we must do.
Elections, legislation, and lawsuits are no longer viable avenues for stopping MAGA, and the longer we put off organizing for mass resistance, the harder it will ultimately be. It may soon be impossible. There came a time in the 30's in Nazi Germany when resistance was no longer possible. We are hurtling toward the same fate.
It is amazing to me that people dismiss mass resistance because "Trump won't allow it", as one person posted today, or because it will give Trump a pretext to declare martial law, or crackdown on demonstrators, or whatever. Yet the same people think that elections, legislation, and lawsuits can still work.
The monstrous and extremely dangerous people working with Trump are expanding and consolidating their power hour after hour, day after day.
hadEnuf
(3,127 posts)It used to be "we don't want to be like them". Now it's "Trump won't let us because"....
Despite my rhetoric on this I still hold out hope that this can be fixed peacefully, but every day reality says it cannot be done that way.
We should have been amassing bold power years ago and now here we are.
Cirsium
(2,364 posts)The more obvious the threat from MAGA becomes, the greater will be the possibility of a mass popular uprising. Very progressive positions enjoy majority support from the public om dozes o key issues. It takes a lot of careful work to prevent that from translating over to having any influence on national politics. A mass popular uprising threatens all of that careful work.
A mass popular uprising would decouple the national political discussion from the rigid control of the pundits (names redacted), the politicians (names redacted), and the entertainers (names redacted), who are all trying desperately to save the old order.
It is an impossibility to save the old order and to stop MAGA. We can't have both. It will be one or the other.
The sooner we start, the more organization, the more solidarity, the more militancy, the greater the numbers, the more likely there will be a peaceful outcome. It is important that we understand that surrendering (accommodating, normalizing, compromising, triangulating, complying, obeying) would not be peaceful.
(I edited this to remove the names of the politicians and celebrities from the post. The hero worship culture is so strong that arguments over the personalities I originally named would certainly ensue.)
JCMach1
(28,617 posts)InstantGratification
(328 posts)Ignoring court orders is part of it. The bigger part is that this is an extension of sending prisoners to gitmo. The Bush Admin argued that the terror suspects didn't have a right to due process because Cuba is a sovereign nation and they were outside of US jurisdiction. The courts over ruled that because Guantanamo is under a long term lease to the US and has been occupied by the US for over a century.
They are running that same play here, but in a location that really is outside of US jurisdiction. If they win this play against illegal immigrants, they will extend it to legal immigrants. If they get away with that, they will try it against naturalized citizens, then try to extend that to natural born citizens.
This is just one step on the way to disappearing anyone who pisses off the monarch.
Walleye
(39,796 posts)Clouds Passing
(4,457 posts)AdamGG
(1,681 posts)that he wants to send US citizens to El Salvador. There were two kids in Colorado arrested for arson at a Tesla dealership and Trump said that he plans to send them to El Salvador.
Calling nonviolent property crime "domestic terrorism" is extreme and probably unconstitutional. Sending people to prisons in foreign countries is definitely unconstitutional.
Bernardo de La Paz
(54,874 posts)Irish_Dem
(68,699 posts)If Trump or El Salvador don't kill Garcia, the inmates will.
Especially if Garcia refused to become a gang member.
LiberalArkie
(17,999 posts)If so, then why not just exterminate the prisoners? It would be a lot more economical to do so. Of course El Salvadore could never say that or there would be problems.
The Madcap
(1,116 posts)Death factory off-shoring....
samplegirl
(12,910 posts)
Irish_Dem
(68,699 posts)So making some money off of them in some way?
LiberalArkie
(17,999 posts)people were sent and most not fit for the work, you know something had to be done. Even slave labor is expensive as more and more buildings and guards are needed, unless some other solution could be found.
https://www.reddit.com/r/suppressed_news/comments/1jxe1oa/i_did_a_deeper_dive_into_the_satellite_image_that/
I did a deeper dive into the satellite image that looks like blood/bodies at CECOT El Salvadorian prison that we've sent deportees to. Heavily suppressed on YT and IG, flooded with bots, too. Which tells me it's onto something.
ALGORITHMICALLY SUPPRESSED
Photos: https://imgur.com/a/TwXC9I1
Turned up the contrast, played around with sharpness/clarity and saturation. Did not touch any hue or change the color scheme at all, only increasing saturation/vividness. Keep in mind these are algorithmic so it's not bringing out "real" information, it's algorithms guessing based on the available data(which for such a blurry photo it's not that much information) what is the best guess at the color/shapes/etc.
Still, pretty disturbing. The original satellite photo is pretty desaturated and flat so this brings out more details, which I don't know about you makes this look more like bodies and blood to me. Play around with it yourself, there's plenty of free photo editing apps.
Made a 10 min deeper dive going over the photo, history of CECOT, the history of deaths at these places(human rights groups say 262 to 350 dead, at MINIMUM in the 3 years these super prisons have been operating).
Oh guess what started all this prison shit in El Salvador... The dictator Bukele declared a state of emergency that suspended all civil rights and then the dictator rounded up 85,000 people and threw them into prisons without due process. Citing gang violence as the emergency(which like all good emergencies has lots of truth and came with popular support).
Hmmm sounding familiar??? No wonder Trump is so friendly with this fucker. Even if all of this is a big nothingburger it's insane what people are going through in these prisons. The government has stated plainly that NO ONE EVER LEAVES CECOT! Wtf! https://www.connectas.org/inside-cecot-the-prison-that-nobody-leaves-el-salvador/
So, how are they making room to house all the deportees and soon to be American citizens we'll be sending them??
People are reporting they can't like my post or share it on IG, and on YouTube it literally had less than 100 views after several hours even though my account has 93k subs and it wasn't until I posted the link on reddit that it got any views. Also having to constantly ban bots. I've only seen this on a few of my other posts, one touching on t***amen square which I lived through in China(If I spell it out this post will get brigaded by Chinese bots).
My gut intuition and soul tells me this is something super super dark. Even if lets say this is a total nothingburger, the prison itself is full of human rights abuses and is killing people everyday and the government has stated NONE OF THE PRISONERS WILL LEAVE ALIVE. So what the fuck is this place if not a death camp??
Irish_Dem
(68,699 posts)to his torture prisons, the most dangerous prisons in the world,
I believe it is a very dark situation as well.
He is one slimy bastard as is Trump.
Anything is possible.
Yes even though I suggested the idea of slave labor, it is not high probability is it?
Though these are able bodied young men, not the wide age range of kidnapped Jewish families during WWII.
As you are no doubt aware in the Chinese great purge, the men were sent to labor camps.
But there were signs of labor going on, and we don't see that in CECOT.
Unless it is factory work of some kind, set up in the prison.
But hard to imagine what kind of work would turn a profit after Bukele pays for their room and board costs.
And cost of guards, management, etc. And Bukele's big cut of profits too.
Also Trump and Bondi do not want to take the chance that one of the prisoners will get out alive and
start talking.
I could also see Bukele pocketing the money Trump gives him to build more prisons.
And just kill prisoners to make more room.
Like Hitler's concentration camps.
In terms of the video, if there are piles of bodies, how were they killed?
What would account for what we are seeing?
How many are they killing and how?
LiberalArkie
(17,999 posts)allowed outside the cell for 30 minutes a day, we can assume that there isn't a farm operation going on and no manufacturing happening. So they are coughing up the money for the 600 soldiers and 250 police officers on staff with no income for the facility. They could be hoping for someone to come in with Covid or some other disease to clean house every so often.
Germany during WW2 needed workers for its factories as all the men were "at the front". So they used the detainees for labor. That probably seemed like a "win-win" situation. Until they kept getting more and more detainees. Being Nazis they really only saw one thing to do as they had dehumanized the Jews and gays and the crippled people. I had read somewhere a very long time ago that they came to the decision that bullets were too expensive. I can't imagine how expensive the incinerators were, but that was probably a different "billing unit" and did not come out of the budget for the extermination unit.
Probably the same decisions went through the minds of the Japanese during WW2 and the Chinese.
It always is justified at the beginning. It always makes sense in the beginning.
The world was able to clean up Germany and Japan after the war, because of the war.
We do not have a war going on for a crimes court to clean up things. Yet.
Irish_Dem
(68,699 posts)Anyway we slice it, we cannot make the money end of it work out.
Let's just say that some of the facts are not correct, they are out of their cells during the day.
There is a basement sweatshop in the prison. Even if the work is very dangerous or lucrative,
hard to imagine it would cover the costs of the prison. Running such an enterprise would mean
more staff costs and more opportunity for escape or sabotage.
So we have to imagine what kind of work would offset the huge cost of running the prison.
We can't do so readily.
The Germans tried various methods at first to deal with the people they deemed as inferior.
The first plan was to forcible remove European Jews to Madagascar Island off the coast of Africa.
The conditions were deplorable and most of them would die there. But due to Allied blockades,
and transportation costs, etc., it was not feasible.
Then Hitler tried having prisoners dig their own mass graves and then line up and have soldiers kill them.
This was time consuming and the soldiers did not like killing civilians, women and children.
Then Hitler tried mobile gas units, trucks where the Jews could be killed.
Again the soldiers were traumatized and it was slow and tedious.
German love of efficiency demanded better methods and the concentration death camps were invented.
They could kill huge numbers of people quickly and cheaply. And soldiers were not upset.
Remember Hitler was killing millions of Jews. Bullets were not a reasonable option.
The Japanese saw anyone as not Japanese as subhuman and not worthy of respect.
Same thought process as the Germans.
Same thought process as the US MAGAs today.
LiberalArkie
(17,999 posts)When we started the extreme rendition back during Bush, we were on out downhill slide. This is our natural outcome.
Irish_Dem
(68,699 posts)It was critical that MAGAs hate their fellow Americans.
It was a relentless campaign to make women, POC, LGBT, Dems all subhuman and evil.
The GOP did this for money and power.
It was not personal, just business.
Their goal is total permanent power and access to all US wealth and resources.
They are willing to kill as many Americans as it take to get what they want.
And to destroy our democracy.
LiberalArkie
(17,999 posts)Germans hating their fellow Jewish, gay etc countrymen.
Irish_Dem
(68,699 posts)you can make a lot of money and accrue huge amounts of power.
LiberalArkie
(17,999 posts)lostnfound
(16,930 posts)unlike labor camps, no need for bulky materials going in or out.
Irish_Dem
(68,699 posts)There is big money there.
Or refining torture techniques.
Or maybe selling body parts for the illegal transplant trade.
Crunchy Frog
(27,549 posts)that will come after any posts that mention Tiananmen Square?
Just checking it out for myself.
LiberalArkie
(17,999 posts)Google has bots that scour DU.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Tax+cuts+for+the+rich+and+potatoes+instead+of+Easter+eggs.&form=APMCS1&PC=APMC
Crunchy Frog
(27,549 posts)Linda ladeewolf
(839 posts)El Salvador? There also petitions on Move on an Change.org demanding his return. Would this be effective do you think?
Irish_Dem
(68,699 posts)But would Bukele care? He is making a lot of money from Trump who is paying
him with US taxpayer funds.
I don't know if the boycott would work or not.
Maybe others can weigh in.
There has to be a way to put pressure on Bukele.
Linda ladeewolf
(839 posts)How many billions is the El Salvador economy worth?
Irish_Dem
(68,699 posts)The sly smug smirk on Bukele's face during the entire Oval Office interview
tells me he is making a hell of a lot more than a measly $6m from Trump.
I think total revenue export revenue from the US is $4B per year for ES.
Linda ladeewolf
(839 posts)Out and out bribery.
Irish_Dem
(68,699 posts)It has to be some sort of scam as well as political stunt.
All tax payer funded of course.
Happy Hoosier
(8,894 posts)... if they can get away with deporting him to a foreign gulag with no consequence, despite a court order, then they can do it to ANYONE, even US citizens. I mean it. I am not being alarmist.
If they can simply refuse to follow a court order without consequence, they can do literally whatever they want. They will subjagate the American people through fear of being disappeared. I think it's just a matter of time before they try it. And if they succeed just once or twice, it will have a very chilling effect on dissent. We will then have an American dictatorship.
babylonsister
(172,004 posts)BeerBarrelPolka
(1,544 posts)Of course you are completely correct. Anyone can be targeted. This is not hyperbole.
Irish_Dem
(68,699 posts)No longer protected by American laws.
Diraven
(1,367 posts)Because if their excuse is that the US really can't do anything because they can't make El Salvador release someone if they don't want to (because the US is paying El Salvador to hold that person is the part they don't say out loud), then they could use that excuse for literally anyone, even US citizens.
uponit7771
(92,761 posts)NCDem47
(2,784 posts)If he and the DOJ cave on Garcia, it will ruin their plans for future kidnappings as the courts will gum the works.
And yes, Garcia is a total liability to Trump at this point on many levels. For Trump, Garcia cannot be returned. Repubs are banking on this whole affair being forgetten in a few weeks time. Are we still talking about Navalny or Khashoggi?
Joinfortmill
(17,873 posts)Strelnikov_
(7,970 posts)sop
(13,828 posts)In Trump's fevered brain admitting an error is unthinkable and publicly submitting to another's authority is worse than death.
progressoid
(51,317 posts)underpants
(190,112 posts)milestogo
(20,358 posts)I think people will be in the streets over this very soon. And when that happens they will declare martial law and start arresting protesters.
Get into a peaceful protest and start something up. We were warned about that scenario at the last protest.
Attilatheblond
(5,685 posts)Amaryllis
(10,280 posts)stopdiggin
(13,614 posts)This is all about a deliberate stiff arm toward the judiciary. AND - as is absolutely textbook in these moves - they were looking for the right case to come along in order to advance their agenda in declaring executive 'independence' from same.
Has virtually nothing to do with the loss of rights, imprisonment, or degrading horrific conditions ... (of either the program - or this single individual)
Bev54
(12,389 posts)and nothing is done, then they will do more, including citizens because they have shown the rule of law in the US to be totally ineffective and it is his rule now.
Texin
(2,714 posts)primarily in Siberia. And it was definitely a tactic used during that period (and now again under Putin), where people can be disappeared to silence them. As Stalin said, "no man, no problem."
IbogaProject
(4,298 posts)The Commissar Vanishes: The Falsification of Photographs and Art in Stalin's Russia is a 1997 book by David King about the censoring of photographs and fraudulent creation of "photographs" in Joseph Stalin's Soviet Union through silent alteration via airbrushing and other techniques. It has an introduction by Stephen F. Cohen.
A documentary was made about David King and The Commissar Vanishes, called Facing the Dead, by Gabrielle Pfeiffer. The film was commissioned by Arte and broadcast internationally. It won the "Golden Gate Award" at the San Francisco International Film Festival.
Iamscrewed
(150 posts)We must get this shit stopped or it will get worse.
louis-t
(24,263 posts)This idiot wants you to believe he's a 'dealmaker'. He may be trying to orchestrate something where Bukele 'gives in' to the orange traitor and sends back Garcia in exchange for the US returning some asylum grantees.
colorado_ufo
(6,042 posts)He knows too much.
colorado_ufo
(6,042 posts)I believe he is getting 6 million for the use of this prison from the US. I think if one of our billionaires would simply offer him more money he would return this prisoner.
lark
(24,944 posts)They are lawless haters and murderers even when they KNOW 100% for sure the person is innocent!!!
Edit - fixed typo
DENVERPOPS
(11,853 posts)reminds me of that movie, can't remember the name, where the stupid drug smuggling teen gets arrested and thrown in a Turkey Prison.......and all that he experiences in these kinds of prisons......
Trump's side kick tyrant who is running El Salvador is a really sick psychopath and sadist just like Trump and his entire CABAL
Ananda62
(312 posts)ShazzieB
(20,366 posts)At least it is if DENVERPOPS and I are both thinking of the same movie.
I remember hearing about that movie at the time and even seeing a trailer for it, but I avoided seeing it because I could tell that it would probably exceed my tolerance for violence and probably still would today).
thank you!!!!!
C_U_L8R
(47,170 posts)Rarely think others can see the crimes they are doing... and that they'll magically get away with it. History proves they are always wrong, no matter how right they believe they are.
TommieMommy
(1,867 posts)Festivito
(13,694 posts)NH Ethylene
(31,106 posts)Imagine Garcia making the political talk shows' circuit.
Quanto Magnus
(1,111 posts)to 'accidently unalive' him...
milestogo
(20,358 posts)and it was totally inhumane. And totally American.
Ohioboy
(3,636 posts)He knows first hand what is being done.
WiVoter
(1,252 posts)with destroying the influence of the Judicial Branch & creating the constitutional crisis we are now in. Unitary executive, in other words, a king.
Deep State Witch
(11,749 posts)It will be like Abu Gharaib, only done to our people. That's why they don't want him back. And now that Bukele knows we want him back, he's as good as dead.
Bo Zarts
(25,978 posts)Trump, Homan, Noeme, and their I was just following orders minions have set themselves up for international justice, even if they can escape it in the US. I hope Garcia stays safe. But I fear that Trump is all too familiar with the dead men tell no tales business model, and I dont think he would hesitate one second to order it implemented.
Solomon
(12,540 posts)E. Normus
(96 posts)He will be "Epsteined"!
Bluethroughu
(7,191 posts)History and the rest me mostly shoplifting or lower crimes.
I think they killed them. That president got 6 million dollars, to house them forever or not.
Harker
(16,105 posts)not grinned and shrugged, and suggested "homegrown ones" are next.
aggiesal
(9,959 posts)IronLionZion
(48,565 posts)IronLionZion
(48,565 posts)lostnfound
(16,930 posts)JohnnyRingo
(19,855 posts)I have to start watching it more
Ping Tung
(2,194 posts)As they are of all dissidents.
elocs
(24,112 posts)I thought that ordering his return would guarantee his death.
Try Harder
(14 posts)Timmy Karter gives a brief inside view of CECOT on his YouTube channel. Additionally, he and Bald and Bankrupt, another YouTube journalist, show a primal and gritty crossing from Venezuela to the Mexico/US border, through the Darien Gap. Different pov from each. These are filmed over multiple episodes, and the journey with them changed something in me, as well as them. Now imagine making that journey with an infant and a 5 year old. Then tell me again how they are invading the US and stealing your tax dollars, you heartless cold Magasses.
I applaud the citizen journalists who risk everything to tell us the hidden stories and the things we need to hear and know. Bald and Bankrupt, Timmy Carter, Peter Santanello, Matt Dillahunty, Aron Ra, Professor Dave, Forest Valkai, Gutsick Gibbon and many others who show and teach. And turn down main stream media. Check out the Meidas Touch, Adam Mockler, Hysteria, Politics Girl, LegalAF, and so many others. Keep an eye on MSM because we must know how to point out their lies and obfuscations.
BTW, a 20 year lurker here. Keep up the good work.
Maru Kitteh
(30,092 posts)
Martin68
(25,547 posts)patphil
(7,720 posts)I may be a bit cynical, but I wouldn't put it past Trump to have him killed if it looks like he might be returned.
This is a place where violence is standard operating procedure, and death is common.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-to-know-about-the-el-salvador-mega-prison-where-trump-sent-hundreds-of-immigrants
spanone
(138,840 posts)liberalla
(10,438 posts)Dave Bowman
(5,030 posts)IcyPeas
(23,472 posts)I assume the guards know.
Who is going stop trump.... it just keeps getting worse and worse.
Signalgate disappeared..... will this story disappear too? He gets away with everything!
Fuck the Republicans who are all complicit.
YoshidaYui
(43,610 posts)TRUMP MUST NOT APPEAR AS THOUGH HE WAS WRONG, SO THE GUY will never come back.
GrayJedi
(4 posts)Trump remembers all of the flack he got when he separated the families at the border and how some of the kids parents could not be located. If he admits that he has been deporting innocent people his rating will drop like the Titanic
3Hotdogs
(14,108 posts)The photos of the prisoner with their heads pushed down.... just like photos of prisoners in China.
And the cost of this? Note that there is one guard per prisoner.
RVN VET71
(2,869 posts)He said M-13 had a contract on him, for one thing. For another, no one is expected to live long in that El Salvadoran hell hole. And the calls for his return to the States was another nail in his coffin -- since he became a celebrity of sorts, it was necessary that he disappear -- and in dictator parlance "disappear" means death.
Rhiannon12866
(232,888 posts)And describe all the horrific conditions in this concentration camp type prison in El Salvador. It's been said that no one has ever gotten out of this site of torture and death and there's a reason for that. I fear for his life because they'd sooner kill him than allow him to testify about these inhuman conditions.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(25,106 posts)markpkessinger
(8,706 posts). . . Mr. Abrego García is already dead, and they're trying to cover that up!
CincyDem
(7,081 posts)azureblue
(2,404 posts)And expose both tyrants.
sellitman
(11,703 posts)No doubt.