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JohnnyRingo

(19,855 posts)
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 11:04 AM Apr 15

It just occurred to me why they may not want to return Kilmar Garca

I might be off base, but it seems odd that this one man is the hill they're willing to die on. Just one guy they could easily return, but they hold steadfast.

García can talk. He can describe in frightening detail the kind of un American torture being administered by Trump and his heartless cabinet. It may well be beyond what we even imagine, like Holocaust level. Something they have no qualms about but don't want to be all over the global media.

If it comes down to Trump being cornered into returning him, he may just meet with an unfortunate "mishap" in prison.

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It just occurred to me why they may not want to return Kilmar Garca (Original Post) JohnnyRingo Apr 15 OP
of course. He can't come back and talk. This poor guy has to disappear. chicoescuela Apr 15 #1
I have thought this also. With the actions of the administration about this, I think Garcia isn't with us OLDMDDEM Apr 15 #2
I so hope you are wrong ReRe Apr 15 #92
You might be right. redstatebluegirl Apr 15 #3
See my post from last Saturday. I agree totally. usaf-vet Apr 15 #93
I think it's something way worse than that, gab13by13 Apr 15 #4
Agree 100% That is exactly what they are doing. Now what shoild our Counter be to their plans? bluestarone Apr 15 #12
Mass popular uprising Cirsium Apr 15 #39
You are absolutely correct. hadEnuf Apr 15 #56
Amassing bold power, yes Cirsium Apr 15 #59
When they kill rule of law, we are not bound by that either JCMach1 Apr 15 #63
That is one part of a 2 pronged approach InstantGratification Apr 15 #21
Yes, exactly. W made all this possible. Walleye Apr 15 #55
All in lockstep with his poppy's new world order Clouds Passing Apr 15 #85
Trump's already said AdamGG Apr 16 #96
Your independently arrived at point is supported by other writers in the media. Good thinking. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 15 #5
The prison is said to be the most dangerous prison in the world. Irish_Dem Apr 15 #6
Supposedly the "prison" is set up to never let a person sent there to ever return to the public. LiberalArkie Apr 15 #37
Not unlikely The Madcap Apr 15 #38
We were warned samplegirl Apr 15 #94
Maybe they are using the prisoners as slave labor? Irish_Dem Apr 15 #41
That is the normal method everywhere. I had read that the Dachau and others were set up for that, but as more and more LiberalArkie Apr 15 #51
After seeing Bukele laugh and smirk at the thought of shipping Americans Irish_Dem Apr 15 #62
It may be too early to truthfully know what is going on at CECOT. But since no prisoner is allowed outside, and only LiberalArkie Apr 15 #68
Interesting theory here. Irish_Dem Apr 15 #72
Yea, Once a country dehumanizing a people, calls them terrorists, calls them "all are Hamas" it never turns out good. LiberalArkie Apr 15 #74
The GOP deliberately used propaganda to create hatred and loathing. Irish_Dem Apr 15 #75
Hatred of their fellow citizens seems to be the standard playbook. Whites hating redskins and blacks and Irish etc LiberalArkie Apr 15 #76
If you can appeal to the dark underbelly of human nature Irish_Dem Apr 15 #77
Yep... A variation of LBJ's statement LiberalArkie Apr 15 #78
Could be using them for psychological or drug experiments? lostnfound Apr 16 #98
Yes I wondered about something connected to the drug and sex trafficking trade. Irish_Dem Apr 16 #99
Are you saying that there are Chinese bots on DU Crunchy Frog Apr 15 #67
Huh, the article is not my post. But there are BOTs everywhere. LiberalArkie Apr 15 #69
Sorry. Didn't understand exactly what the post was saying. Crunchy Frog Apr 15 #71
Would it be feasible to boycott products from Linda ladeewolf Apr 15 #86
It would hurt the ES economy. The US is their major export destination. Irish_Dem Apr 15 #87
6 million does not go far. Linda ladeewolf Apr 15 #88
What is the $6M figure? Irish_Dem Apr 15 #89
Ahh , bribes then. Linda ladeewolf Apr 16 #107
There has to be some big money attached to the El Salvador concentration camp scheme. Irish_Dem Apr 16 #108
I think it's fairly simple.... Happy Hoosier Apr 15 #7
Exactly right. We can't let them get away with this. nt babylonsister Apr 15 #9
100% BeerBarrelPolka Apr 15 #20
Kidnap an American and take them out of the country. Irish_Dem Apr 15 #42
Exactly Diraven Apr 15 #46
👆🏿👆🏿👆🏿THIS!!!👆🏿👆🏿👆🏿 Nazis didn't use the excuse that those foreigners did it but Putin's Puppet can uponit7771 Apr 15 #48
Trump loathes the judiciary. NCDem47 Apr 15 #8
Likely already dead. Joinfortmill Apr 15 #10
Agree Strelnikov_ Apr 15 #90
Re-appearing Garcia would be an admission he made a mistake and others can tell him what to do. sop Apr 15 #11
Right. And it would dominate the news. progressoid Apr 15 #15
Completely agree underpants Apr 15 #28
Or they are trying to provoke massive protests. milestogo Apr 15 #13
Yep!... MiHale Apr 15 #17
We saw it in the anti-Vietnam war protests. Agent provocateur is an old tactic, which unfortunately, works too often Attilatheblond Apr 15 #83
What i have always thought. Amaryllis Apr 15 #14
No. Has nothing to do with it. stopdiggin Apr 15 #16
I believe this is the hill to die on because if they win this one, by refusing to return him Bev54 Apr 15 #18
It's a play right out of the Stalin era (and later Communist policies). The Gulag Archipelagos, Texin Apr 15 #19
Stalin even had official photos edited to remove the dissapeared IbogaProject Apr 15 #24
History Iamscrewed Apr 15 #22
There is one more possibility. louis-t Apr 15 #23
And he probably could tell more stories of other innocent men there. colorado_ufo Apr 15 #25
The president of El Salvador operates on money. colorado_ufo Apr 15 #26
I think he's dead and probably before he even arrived there and that's why they are doubling down. lark Apr 15 #27
this whole mess DENVERPOPS Apr 15 #29
Midnight Express? Ananda62 Apr 15 #34
That sounds like the one! ShazzieB Apr 15 #58
Bingo DENVERPOPS Apr 15 #91
Xenophobic psychotics like the Trump team C_U_L8R Apr 15 #30
So true TommieMommy Apr 15 #31
Show judges as weak until the knife wounds heal. eom. Festivito Apr 15 #32
That's what I've been thinking all along. NH Ethylene Apr 15 #33
I fully expect the Trump regime Quanto Magnus Apr 15 #35
We already know what was done at Gitmo milestogo Apr 15 #36
You are thinking exactly what I've been thinking Ohioboy Apr 15 #40
That's Part Of It. I Think It Might Have More To Do WiVoter Apr 15 #43
Exactly Deep State Witch Apr 15 #44
Bingo! My thoughts exactly. Bo Zarts Apr 15 #45
"Official act" and all that. Solomon Apr 16 #101
loose lips sink ships. E. Normus Apr 15 #47
CBS reported 75% of the people sent there had zero criminal Bluethroughu Apr 15 #49
A sane president would've asked for his return... Harker Apr 15 #50
Or he might have already been killed & they can't bring him back unless he's in a coffin. n/t aggiesal Apr 15 #52
CNN VIDEO: Inside the Salvadoran mega-prison where US deportees live IronLionZion Apr 15 #53
60 Minutes Video: What records show about the migrants sent to Salvadoran mega-prison IronLionZion Apr 15 #54
What a photojournalist saw as Venezuelan migrants arrived in El Salvador (video, 60 minutes plus) lostnfound Apr 16 #100
Wow! No wonder Trump hates CBS and 60 Minutes. JohnnyRingo Apr 16 #103
They won't because they're afraid of him. Ping Tung Apr 15 #57
I had expected Garcia to be shanked in the shower or otherwise kill his 1st week in prison. elocs Apr 15 #60
CECOT - A view from a citizen journalist Try Harder Apr 15 #61
Thanks for that post. I will check some of those people out. Maru Kitteh Apr 15 #65
Either that, or he is already dead... Martin68 Apr 15 #64
I agree, they don't want him talking about his experience. patphil Apr 15 #66
Depends on if he is dead or alive. spanone Apr 15 #70
Waiting for the injuries to heal... liberalla Apr 15 #73
Another possibility is that they can't send him back because he's dead. 🙁 Dave Bowman Apr 15 #79
Do the other prisoners know he is such a big target? IcyPeas Apr 15 #80
ITS SIMPLE YoshidaYui Apr 15 #81
They would have to admit that they F-ed up! GrayJedi Apr 15 #82
Just like Trump's bff, Jeff. 3Hotdogs Apr 15 #84
He's no longer among the living RVN VET71 Apr 15 #95
That has been my frightening thought all along, they can't bring him back because he will talk Rhiannon12866 Apr 16 #97
Great minds think alike!! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 16 #102
Yes, either that or . . . markpkessinger Apr 16 #104
Wouldn't surprise me to learn he has fallen out of a 7th floor window. CincyDem Apr 16 #105
Garcia wil sing like a bird azureblue Apr 16 #106
He will be Jeffrey Epsteined. sellitman Apr 16 #109

OLDMDDEM

(2,465 posts)
2. I have thought this also. With the actions of the administration about this, I think Garcia isn't with us
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 11:06 AM
Apr 15

anymore.

ReRe

(11,569 posts)
92. I so hope you are wrong
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 09:00 PM
Apr 15

Hell, they could have killed all 260 after Christi's infomercial was done. That's why they say none of them can be returned for due process rights?

redstatebluegirl

(12,661 posts)
3. You might be right.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 11:06 AM
Apr 15

I hope not, but it makes sense. 30% of the country would think that is ok. That is terrifying....

gab13by13

(27,806 posts)
4. I think it's something way worse than that,
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 11:07 AM
Apr 15

Garcia is a test case for Krasnov to take control of the judiciary by ignoring its rulings.

Krasnov has control of the legislature, is working on the judiciary and military.

bluestarone

(19,649 posts)
12. Agree 100% That is exactly what they are doing. Now what shoild our Counter be to their plans?
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 11:29 AM
Apr 15

We have got to come up with something. Hell, we can't even enforce a supreme court order. (the one i'm thinking about is Immigrants must be given notice, and a hearing before being moved out of our country.) How is that gonna be enforced? That's the answer we need, and need fast. Somehow there has to be a way for judges to deputize there own marshals. Judges have to make a move on this. Like you mentioned, this is all a court testing situation. They keep getting away with this crap, they will win. Hell, the point will come that they won't even listen to Congress decisions as well. These bastards figured out a way to STEAL our country from us, that's for sure.

Cirsium

(2,364 posts)
39. Mass popular uprising
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 01:18 PM
Apr 15

A mass popular uprising is the only possible effective response. People are still looking to elections, legislation, and lawsuits, and for some strange reason are ignoring or dismissing the one thing that we must do.

Elections, legislation, and lawsuits are no longer viable avenues for stopping MAGA, and the longer we put off organizing for mass resistance, the harder it will ultimately be. It may soon be impossible. There came a time in the 30's in Nazi Germany when resistance was no longer possible. We are hurtling toward the same fate.

It is amazing to me that people dismiss mass resistance because "Trump won't allow it", as one person posted today, or because it will give Trump a pretext to declare martial law, or crackdown on demonstrators, or whatever. Yet the same people think that elections, legislation, and lawsuits can still work.

The monstrous and extremely dangerous people working with Trump are expanding and consolidating their power hour after hour, day after day.

hadEnuf

(3,127 posts)
56. You are absolutely correct.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 02:04 PM
Apr 15

It used to be "we don't want to be like them". Now it's "Trump won't let us because"....

Despite my rhetoric on this I still hold out hope that this can be fixed peacefully, but every day reality says it cannot be done that way.

We should have been amassing bold power years ago and now here we are.

Cirsium

(2,364 posts)
59. Amassing bold power, yes
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 02:25 PM
Apr 15

The more obvious the threat from MAGA becomes, the greater will be the possibility of a mass popular uprising. Very progressive positions enjoy majority support from the public om dozes o key issues. It takes a lot of careful work to prevent that from translating over to having any influence on national politics. A mass popular uprising threatens all of that careful work.

A mass popular uprising would decouple the national political discussion from the rigid control of the pundits (names redacted), the politicians (names redacted), and the entertainers (names redacted), who are all trying desperately to save the old order.

It is an impossibility to save the old order and to stop MAGA. We can't have both. It will be one or the other.

The sooner we start, the more organization, the more solidarity, the more militancy, the greater the numbers, the more likely there will be a peaceful outcome. It is important that we understand that surrendering (accommodating, normalizing, compromising, triangulating, complying, obeying) would not be peaceful.

(I edited this to remove the names of the politicians and celebrities from the post. The hero worship culture is so strong that arguments over the personalities I originally named would certainly ensue.)

21. That is one part of a 2 pronged approach
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 12:13 PM
Apr 15

Ignoring court orders is part of it. The bigger part is that this is an extension of sending prisoners to gitmo. The Bush Admin argued that the terror suspects didn't have a right to due process because Cuba is a sovereign nation and they were outside of US jurisdiction. The courts over ruled that because Guantanamo is under a long term lease to the US and has been occupied by the US for over a century.

They are running that same play here, but in a location that really is outside of US jurisdiction. If they win this play against illegal immigrants, they will extend it to legal immigrants. If they get away with that, they will try it against naturalized citizens, then try to extend that to natural born citizens.

This is just one step on the way to disappearing anyone who pisses off the monarch.

AdamGG

(1,681 posts)
96. Trump's already said
Wed Apr 16, 2025, 12:23 AM
Apr 16

that he wants to send US citizens to El Salvador. There were two kids in Colorado arrested for arson at a Tesla dealership and Trump said that he plans to send them to El Salvador.

Calling nonviolent property crime "domestic terrorism" is extreme and probably unconstitutional. Sending people to prisons in foreign countries is definitely unconstitutional.

Bernardo de La Paz

(54,874 posts)
5. Your independently arrived at point is supported by other writers in the media. Good thinking. . . . nt
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 11:11 AM
Apr 15

Irish_Dem

(68,699 posts)
6. The prison is said to be the most dangerous prison in the world.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 11:11 AM
Apr 15

If Trump or El Salvador don't kill Garcia, the inmates will.
Especially if Garcia refused to become a gang member.

LiberalArkie

(17,999 posts)
37. Supposedly the "prison" is set up to never let a person sent there to ever return to the public.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 01:10 PM
Apr 15

If so, then why not just exterminate the prisoners? It would be a lot more economical to do so. Of course El Salvadore could never say that or there would be problems.

Irish_Dem

(68,699 posts)
41. Maybe they are using the prisoners as slave labor?
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 01:27 PM
Apr 15

So making some money off of them in some way?

LiberalArkie

(17,999 posts)
51. That is the normal method everywhere. I had read that the Dachau and others were set up for that, but as more and more
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 01:51 PM
Apr 15

people were sent and most not fit for the work, you know something had to be done. Even slave labor is expensive as more and more buildings and guards are needed, unless some other solution could be found.

https://www.reddit.com/r/suppressed_news/comments/1jxe1oa/i_did_a_deeper_dive_into_the_satellite_image_that/

I did a deeper dive into the satellite image that looks like blood/bodies at CECOT El Salvadorian prison that we've sent deportees to. Heavily suppressed on YT and IG, flooded with bots, too. Which tells me it's onto something.

ALGORITHMICALLY SUPPRESSED
Photos: https://imgur.com/a/TwXC9I1

Turned up the contrast, played around with sharpness/clarity and saturation. Did not touch any hue or change the color scheme at all, only increasing saturation/vividness. Keep in mind these are algorithmic so it's not bringing out "real" information, it's algorithms guessing based on the available data(which for such a blurry photo it's not that much information) what is the best guess at the color/shapes/etc.

Still, pretty disturbing. The original satellite photo is pretty desaturated and flat so this brings out more details, which I don't know about you makes this look more like bodies and blood to me. Play around with it yourself, there's plenty of free photo editing apps.

Made a 10 min deeper dive going over the photo, history of CECOT, the history of deaths at these places(human rights groups say 262 to 350 dead, at MINIMUM in the 3 years these super prisons have been operating).



Oh guess what started all this prison shit in El Salvador... The dictator Bukele declared a state of emergency that suspended all civil rights and then the dictator rounded up 85,000 people and threw them into prisons without due process. Citing gang violence as the emergency(which like all good emergencies has lots of truth and came with popular support).

Hmmm sounding familiar??? No wonder Trump is so friendly with this fucker. Even if all of this is a big nothingburger it's insane what people are going through in these prisons. The government has stated plainly that NO ONE EVER LEAVES CECOT! Wtf! https://www.connectas.org/inside-cecot-the-prison-that-nobody-leaves-el-salvador/

So, how are they making room to house all the deportees and soon to be American citizens we'll be sending them??

People are reporting they can't like my post or share it on IG, and on YouTube it literally had less than 100 views after several hours even though my account has 93k subs and it wasn't until I posted the link on reddit that it got any views. Also having to constantly ban bots. I've only seen this on a few of my other posts, one touching on t***amen square which I lived through in China(If I spell it out this post will get brigaded by Chinese bots).

My gut intuition and soul tells me this is something super super dark. Even if lets say this is a total nothingburger, the prison itself is full of human rights abuses and is killing people everyday and the government has stated NONE OF THE PRISONERS WILL LEAVE ALIVE. So what the fuck is this place if not a death camp??

Irish_Dem

(68,699 posts)
62. After seeing Bukele laugh and smirk at the thought of shipping Americans
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 02:53 PM
Apr 15

to his torture prisons, the most dangerous prisons in the world,
I believe it is a very dark situation as well.

He is one slimy bastard as is Trump.
Anything is possible.

Yes even though I suggested the idea of slave labor, it is not high probability is it?
Though these are able bodied young men, not the wide age range of kidnapped Jewish families during WWII.

As you are no doubt aware in the Chinese great purge, the men were sent to labor camps.
But there were signs of labor going on, and we don't see that in CECOT.

Unless it is factory work of some kind, set up in the prison.
But hard to imagine what kind of work would turn a profit after Bukele pays for their room and board costs.
And cost of guards, management, etc. And Bukele's big cut of profits too.

Also Trump and Bondi do not want to take the chance that one of the prisoners will get out alive and
start talking.

I could also see Bukele pocketing the money Trump gives him to build more prisons.
And just kill prisoners to make more room.
Like Hitler's concentration camps.

In terms of the video, if there are piles of bodies, how were they killed?
What would account for what we are seeing?
How many are they killing and how?

LiberalArkie

(17,999 posts)
68. It may be too early to truthfully know what is going on at CECOT. But since no prisoner is allowed outside, and only
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 04:03 PM
Apr 15

allowed outside the cell for 30 minutes a day, we can assume that there isn't a farm operation going on and no manufacturing happening. So they are coughing up the money for the 600 soldiers and 250 police officers on staff with no income for the facility. They could be hoping for someone to come in with Covid or some other disease to clean house every so often.

Germany during WW2 needed workers for its factories as all the men were "at the front". So they used the detainees for labor. That probably seemed like a "win-win" situation. Until they kept getting more and more detainees. Being Nazis they really only saw one thing to do as they had dehumanized the Jews and gays and the crippled people. I had read somewhere a very long time ago that they came to the decision that bullets were too expensive. I can't imagine how expensive the incinerators were, but that was probably a different "billing unit" and did not come out of the budget for the extermination unit.

Probably the same decisions went through the minds of the Japanese during WW2 and the Chinese.
It always is justified at the beginning. It always makes sense in the beginning.

The world was able to clean up Germany and Japan after the war, because of the war.

We do not have a war going on for a crimes court to clean up things. Yet.

Irish_Dem

(68,699 posts)
72. Interesting theory here.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 04:37 PM
Apr 15

Anyway we slice it, we cannot make the money end of it work out.

Let's just say that some of the facts are not correct, they are out of their cells during the day.
There is a basement sweatshop in the prison. Even if the work is very dangerous or lucrative,
hard to imagine it would cover the costs of the prison. Running such an enterprise would mean
more staff costs and more opportunity for escape or sabotage.

So we have to imagine what kind of work would offset the huge cost of running the prison.
We can't do so readily.

The Germans tried various methods at first to deal with the people they deemed as inferior.
The first plan was to forcible remove European Jews to Madagascar Island off the coast of Africa.
The conditions were deplorable and most of them would die there. But due to Allied blockades,
and transportation costs, etc., it was not feasible.

Then Hitler tried having prisoners dig their own mass graves and then line up and have soldiers kill them.
This was time consuming and the soldiers did not like killing civilians, women and children.
Then Hitler tried mobile gas units, trucks where the Jews could be killed.
Again the soldiers were traumatized and it was slow and tedious.

German love of efficiency demanded better methods and the concentration death camps were invented.
They could kill huge numbers of people quickly and cheaply. And soldiers were not upset.
Remember Hitler was killing millions of Jews. Bullets were not a reasonable option.

The Japanese saw anyone as not Japanese as subhuman and not worthy of respect.
Same thought process as the Germans.
Same thought process as the US MAGAs today.

LiberalArkie

(17,999 posts)
74. Yea, Once a country dehumanizing a people, calls them terrorists, calls them "all are Hamas" it never turns out good.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 04:44 PM
Apr 15

When we started the extreme rendition back during Bush, we were on out downhill slide. This is our natural outcome.

Irish_Dem

(68,699 posts)
75. The GOP deliberately used propaganda to create hatred and loathing.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 04:50 PM
Apr 15

It was critical that MAGAs hate their fellow Americans.
It was a relentless campaign to make women, POC, LGBT, Dems all subhuman and evil.

The GOP did this for money and power.
It was not personal, just business.
Their goal is total permanent power and access to all US wealth and resources.
They are willing to kill as many Americans as it take to get what they want.
And to destroy our democracy.

LiberalArkie

(17,999 posts)
76. Hatred of their fellow citizens seems to be the standard playbook. Whites hating redskins and blacks and Irish etc
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 04:55 PM
Apr 15

Germans hating their fellow Jewish, gay etc countrymen.

Irish_Dem

(68,699 posts)
77. If you can appeal to the dark underbelly of human nature
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 04:57 PM
Apr 15

you can make a lot of money and accrue huge amounts of power.

lostnfound

(16,930 posts)
98. Could be using them for psychological or drug experiments?
Wed Apr 16, 2025, 06:58 AM
Apr 16

unlike labor camps, no need for bulky materials going in or out.

Irish_Dem

(68,699 posts)
99. Yes I wondered about something connected to the drug and sex trafficking trade.
Wed Apr 16, 2025, 07:19 AM
Apr 16

There is big money there.
Or refining torture techniques.

Or maybe selling body parts for the illegal transplant trade.

Crunchy Frog

(27,549 posts)
67. Are you saying that there are Chinese bots on DU
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 03:35 PM
Apr 15

that will come after any posts that mention Tiananmen Square?

Just checking it out for myself.

Linda ladeewolf

(839 posts)
86. Would it be feasible to boycott products from
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 07:30 PM
Apr 15

El Salvador? There also petitions on Move on an Change.org demanding his return. Would this be effective do you think?

Irish_Dem

(68,699 posts)
87. It would hurt the ES economy. The US is their major export destination.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 07:34 PM
Apr 15

But would Bukele care? He is making a lot of money from Trump who is paying
him with US taxpayer funds.

I don't know if the boycott would work or not.
Maybe others can weigh in.

There has to be a way to put pressure on Bukele.

Irish_Dem

(68,699 posts)
89. What is the $6M figure?
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 07:43 PM
Apr 15

The sly smug smirk on Bukele's face during the entire Oval Office interview
tells me he is making a hell of a lot more than a measly $6m from Trump.

I think total revenue export revenue from the US is $4B per year for ES.

Irish_Dem

(68,699 posts)
108. There has to be some big money attached to the El Salvador concentration camp scheme.
Wed Apr 16, 2025, 09:51 AM
Apr 16

It has to be some sort of scam as well as political stunt.
All tax payer funded of course.

Happy Hoosier

(8,894 posts)
7. I think it's fairly simple....
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 11:13 AM
Apr 15

... if they can get away with deporting him to a foreign gulag with no consequence, despite a court order, then they can do it to ANYONE, even US citizens. I mean it. I am not being alarmist.

If they can simply refuse to follow a court order without consequence, they can do literally whatever they want. They will subjagate the American people through fear of being disappeared. I think it's just a matter of time before they try it. And if they succeed just once or twice, it will have a very chilling effect on dissent. We will then have an American dictatorship.

Diraven

(1,367 posts)
46. Exactly
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 01:43 PM
Apr 15

Because if their excuse is that the US really can't do anything because they can't make El Salvador release someone if they don't want to (because the US is paying El Salvador to hold that person is the part they don't say out loud), then they could use that excuse for literally anyone, even US citizens.

uponit7771

(92,761 posts)
48. 👆🏿👆🏿👆🏿THIS!!!👆🏿👆🏿👆🏿 Nazis didn't use the excuse that those foreigners did it but Putin's Puppet can
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 01:48 PM
Apr 15

NCDem47

(2,784 posts)
8. Trump loathes the judiciary.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 11:15 AM
Apr 15

If he and the DOJ cave on Garcia, it will ruin their plans for future kidnappings as the courts will gum the works.

And yes, Garcia is a total liability to Trump at this point on many levels. For Trump, Garcia cannot be returned. Repubs are banking on this whole affair being forgetten in a few weeks time. Are we still talking about Navalny or Khashoggi?

sop

(13,828 posts)
11. Re-appearing Garcia would be an admission he made a mistake and others can tell him what to do.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 11:28 AM
Apr 15

In Trump's fevered brain admitting an error is unthinkable and publicly submitting to another's authority is worse than death.

milestogo

(20,358 posts)
13. Or they are trying to provoke massive protests.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 11:40 AM
Apr 15

I think people will be in the streets over this very soon. And when that happens they will declare martial law and start arresting protesters.

MiHale

(11,567 posts)
17. Yep!...
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 12:02 PM
Apr 15

Get into a peaceful protest and start something up. We were warned about that scenario at the last protest.

Attilatheblond

(5,685 posts)
83. We saw it in the anti-Vietnam war protests. Agent provocateur is an old tactic, which unfortunately, works too often
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 06:46 PM
Apr 15

stopdiggin

(13,614 posts)
16. No. Has nothing to do with it.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 12:00 PM
Apr 15

This is all about a deliberate stiff arm toward the judiciary. AND - as is absolutely textbook in these moves - they were looking for the right case to come along in order to advance their agenda in declaring executive 'independence' from same.

Has virtually nothing to do with the loss of rights, imprisonment, or degrading horrific conditions ... (of either the program - or this single individual)

Bev54

(12,389 posts)
18. I believe this is the hill to die on because if they win this one, by refusing to return him
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 12:03 PM
Apr 15

and nothing is done, then they will do more, including citizens because they have shown the rule of law in the US to be totally ineffective and it is his rule now.

Texin

(2,714 posts)
19. It's a play right out of the Stalin era (and later Communist policies). The Gulag Archipelagos,
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 12:07 PM
Apr 15

primarily in Siberia. And it was definitely a tactic used during that period (and now again under Putin), where people can be disappeared to silence them. As Stalin said, "no man, no problem."

IbogaProject

(4,298 posts)
24. Stalin even had official photos edited to remove the dissapeared
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 12:20 PM
Apr 15
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Commissar_Vanishes

The Commissar Vanishes: The Falsification of Photographs and Art in Stalin's Russia is a 1997 book by David King about the censoring of photographs and fraudulent creation of "photographs" in Joseph Stalin's Soviet Union through silent alteration via airbrushing and other techniques. It has an introduction by Stephen F. Cohen.

A documentary was made about David King and The Commissar Vanishes, called Facing the Dead, by Gabrielle Pfeiffer. The film was commissioned by Arte and broadcast internationally. It won the "Golden Gate Award" at the San Francisco International Film Festival.

louis-t

(24,263 posts)
23. There is one more possibility.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 12:15 PM
Apr 15

This idiot wants you to believe he's a 'dealmaker'. He may be trying to orchestrate something where Bukele 'gives in' to the orange traitor and sends back Garcia in exchange for the US returning some asylum grantees.

colorado_ufo

(6,042 posts)
26. The president of El Salvador operates on money.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 12:28 PM
Apr 15

I believe he is getting 6 million for the use of this prison from the US. I think if one of our billionaires would simply offer him more money he would return this prisoner.

lark

(24,944 posts)
27. I think he's dead and probably before he even arrived there and that's why they are doubling down.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 12:31 PM
Apr 15

They are lawless haters and murderers even when they KNOW 100% for sure the person is innocent!!!

Edit - fixed typo

DENVERPOPS

(11,853 posts)
29. this whole mess
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 12:33 PM
Apr 15

reminds me of that movie, can't remember the name, where the stupid drug smuggling teen gets arrested and thrown in a Turkey Prison.......and all that he experiences in these kinds of prisons......

Trump's side kick tyrant who is running El Salvador is a really sick psychopath and sadist just like Trump and his entire CABAL

ShazzieB

(20,366 posts)
58. That sounds like the one!
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 02:07 PM
Apr 15

At least it is if DENVERPOPS and I are both thinking of the same movie.

I remember hearing about that movie at the time and even seeing a trailer for it, but I avoided seeing it because I could tell that it would probably exceed my tolerance for violence and probably still would today).

C_U_L8R

(47,170 posts)
30. Xenophobic psychotics like the Trump team
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 12:38 PM
Apr 15

Rarely think others can see the crimes they are doing... and that they'll magically get away with it. History proves they are always wrong, no matter how right they believe they are.

NH Ethylene

(31,106 posts)
33. That's what I've been thinking all along.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 12:44 PM
Apr 15

Imagine Garcia making the political talk shows' circuit.

WiVoter

(1,252 posts)
43. That's Part Of It. I Think It Might Have More To Do
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 01:31 PM
Apr 15

with destroying the influence of the Judicial Branch & creating the constitutional crisis we are now in. Unitary executive, in other words, a king.

Deep State Witch

(11,749 posts)
44. Exactly
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 01:33 PM
Apr 15

It will be like Abu Gharaib, only done to our people. That's why they don't want him back. And now that Bukele knows we want him back, he's as good as dead.

Bo Zarts

(25,978 posts)
45. Bingo! My thoughts exactly.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 01:42 PM
Apr 15

Trump, Homan, Noeme, and their “I was just following orders” minions have set themselves up for international justice, even if they can escape it in the US. I hope Garcia stays safe. But I fear that Trump is all too familiar with the “dead men tell no tales” business model, and I don’t think he would hesitate one second to order it implemented.

Bluethroughu

(7,191 posts)
49. CBS reported 75% of the people sent there had zero criminal
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 01:49 PM
Apr 15

History and the rest me mostly shoplifting or lower crimes.

I think they killed them. That president got 6 million dollars, to house them forever or not.

Harker

(16,105 posts)
50. A sane president would've asked for his return...
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 01:50 PM
Apr 15

not grinned and shrugged, and suggested "homegrown ones" are next.

aggiesal

(9,959 posts)
52. Or he might have already been killed & they can't bring him back unless he's in a coffin. n/t
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 01:55 PM
Apr 15

lostnfound

(16,930 posts)
100. What a photojournalist saw as Venezuelan migrants arrived in El Salvador (video, 60 minutes plus)
Wed Apr 16, 2025, 07:39 AM
Apr 16
?si=FurSCwexjfhtiJpR

elocs

(24,112 posts)
60. I had expected Garcia to be shanked in the shower or otherwise kill his 1st week in prison.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 02:34 PM
Apr 15

I thought that ordering his return would guarantee his death.

Try Harder

(14 posts)
61. CECOT - A view from a citizen journalist
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 02:51 PM
Apr 15

Timmy Karter gives a brief inside view of CECOT on his YouTube channel. Additionally, he and Bald and Bankrupt, another YouTube journalist, show a primal and gritty crossing from Venezuela to the Mexico/US border, through the Darien Gap. Different pov from each. These are filmed over multiple episodes, and the journey with them changed something in me, as well as them. Now imagine making that journey with an infant and a 5 year old. Then tell me again how they are invading the US and stealing your tax dollars, you heartless cold Magasses.

I applaud the citizen journalists who risk everything to tell us the hidden stories and the things we need to hear and know. Bald and Bankrupt, Timmy Carter, Peter Santanello, Matt Dillahunty, Aron Ra, Professor Dave, Forest Valkai, Gutsick Gibbon and many others who show and teach. And turn down main stream media. Check out the Meidas Touch, Adam Mockler, Hysteria, Politics Girl, LegalAF, and so many others. Keep an eye on MSM because we must know how to point out their lies and obfuscations.

BTW, a 20 year lurker here. Keep up the good work.

patphil

(7,720 posts)
66. I agree, they don't want him talking about his experience.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 03:29 PM
Apr 15

I may be a bit cynical, but I wouldn't put it past Trump to have him killed if it looks like he might be returned.
This is a place where violence is standard operating procedure, and death is common.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-to-know-about-the-el-salvador-mega-prison-where-trump-sent-hundreds-of-immigrants

IcyPeas

(23,472 posts)
80. Do the other prisoners know he is such a big target?
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 05:04 PM
Apr 15

I assume the guards know.

Who is going stop trump.... it just keeps getting worse and worse.

Signalgate disappeared..... will this story disappear too? He gets away with everything!

Fuck the Republicans who are all complicit.

GrayJedi

(4 posts)
82. They would have to admit that they F-ed up!
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 06:44 PM
Apr 15

Trump remembers all of the flack he got when he separated the families at the border and how some of the kids parents could not be located. If he admits that he has been deporting innocent people his rating will drop like the Titanic

3Hotdogs

(14,108 posts)
84. Just like Trump's bff, Jeff.
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 06:51 PM
Apr 15

The photos of the prisoner with their heads pushed down.... just like photos of prisoners in China.

And the cost of this? Note that there is one guard per prisoner.

RVN VET71

(2,869 posts)
95. He's no longer among the living
Tue Apr 15, 2025, 10:33 PM
Apr 15

He said M-13 had a contract on him, for one thing. For another, no one is expected to live long in that El Salvadoran hell hole. And the calls for his return to the States was another nail in his coffin -- since he became a celebrity of sorts, it was necessary that he disappear -- and in dictator parlance "disappear" means death.

Rhiannon12866

(232,888 posts)
97. That has been my frightening thought all along, they can't bring him back because he will talk
Wed Apr 16, 2025, 01:34 AM
Apr 16

And describe all the horrific conditions in this concentration camp type prison in El Salvador. It's been said that no one has ever gotten out of this site of torture and death and there's a reason for that. I fear for his life because they'd sooner kill him than allow him to testify about these inhuman conditions.

markpkessinger

(8,706 posts)
104. Yes, either that or . . .
Wed Apr 16, 2025, 09:27 AM
Apr 16

. . . Mr. Abrego García is already dead, and they're trying to cover that up!

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