Fuck it. Let's bring back dueling.

[JFN1]

Since since our culture is so rabidly sensitive to insult (anyone is likely to be insulted by virtually anything at any time), and since our culture seems to be hopelessly addicted to guns and violence, why not just bring back dueling and be done wth it? Makes about as much sense as everythng else we're doing these days...

[KansDem]

1. What kinds of weapons would you suggest be used?

Assault rifles at 20 paces?

[JFN1]

2. LOL! Hadn't thought of that!

Or maybe claymores, at 20 paces...

[Initech]

4. Dodge Chargers at 20 paces!

[sakabatou]

7. Black powder pistols are too old fashioned, hm?

[Bonhomme Richard]

10. My understanding is that the challenged has the choice. N/t

[ananda]

14. Wet noodles in a mud pond.

..

[Posteritatis]

45. Flamethrowers at five would be wonderful for the gene pool. (nt)

[DocMac]

58. Shots of jaeger meister.

[rrneck]

3. What do you think happens all day around here? nt

[DollarBillHines]

5. I was at Alexander Hamilton's grave a few weeks ago

I was thinking about how seriously people used to respond to insults.

[Resonance_Chamber]

18. Well he was porking Burrs old lady too

Hamilton kinda had it comming.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

29. Burr was no angel either...

[Major Nikon]

48. I wasn't aware adultry was a capital offense back then

I always thought they just put you in the town stocks for the weekend and let people throw rotten eggs and tomatoes at you.

[whathehell]

51. Aw, Gee...Do you think Burr's "old lady' could have shot someone Burr might have "porked"?

and gotten the same sympathy?

Just wondering

[Resonance_Chamber]

53. Topless Female Duelists!

Before we begin, a caveat that some of you who may have happened upon our humble site might have seen the words “topless” and “female” and are expecting something racy. Well, this is not racy. But it is, however, very badass and awesome. And practical. So, if you’d like to find out more about the practice of women dueling while topless, we would love to invite you to read more. But that’s what this is about: the practical reasons why women fought duels while topless. This was an actual, historical thing!

You might have seen pieces of this article on Tumblr lately, as did we, and our interest was definitely piqued. What exactly was going on here? Was this some sort of show being put on for horny men? Or, in other circles, for horny women? Was it punishment? Was it pleasure? Was it possible that somehow, there was a less prudish time in history that allowed women to not only fight, but do so without the restrictions of a corset?

It was actually just a matter of precaution. At the start of an 1892 duel in Liechtenstein between Princess Pauline Metternich and the Countess Kielmannsegg, Baroness Lubinska — who presided over the duel, which was being fought for reasons we will save until the end of the post — insisted that the women remove their clothing above their waists to avoid infection in the event that a sword pushed clothing into the wound it caused. The baroness had seen many instances of septic infection in soldiers for this very reason throughout her years of medical training.

If you’re keeping track, this is:

1. A duel between two women, the first-ever “emancipated duel” that involved not only all female principals, but all female seconds.

http://www.themarysue.com/topless-female-duelists/

[whathehell]

56. Only if topless females can duel with Bottomless males...Can you say "Castration Anxiety"?

[Sekhmets Daughter]

28. He was a fascinating character.

Chernow's biography is excellent.

[DollarBillHines]

38. I love old graveyards

I was kicking around the graveyard at Trinity Church (NYC) when a guy came up to me and asked if I would take his picture at Hamilton's grave.

It was part of some office scavenger hunt.

Having never attended school, my take on American History is pretty sketchy. But I have always thought it interesting that principled differences could lead intelligent, sophisticated men to try to kill one another.

His widow is buried nearby. She lived to be 96 years old.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

42. Allow me to recommend

"Alexander Hamilton" by Ron Chernow. You'll be rewarded with a very good idea about the early days of the republic...Jefferson, Washington, Madison and Burr to name just a few.

Hamilton, unlike Jefferson, fought bravely in the Revolution at Washington's side. He probably did more to ensure that the young nation actually survived than any other founder. However, he was blocked from ever seeking the highest office in the land by the framers. He was not born here. Nor was he "landed gentry" albeit he was an incredible snob.

Their duel had less to do with principles than downright hatred. For as ugly as our political process is right now, it has nothing on the ugliness of the early decades. Had that cast of characters had our instantaneous communications and weaponry, none would have survived.

So you're an autodidact? Fascinating!

[truebluegreen]

55. I remember a story about Hamilton...

during the Revolutionary War. As an artillery officer he once authorized the shelling of Princeton University (at that time a single building) because the British had supposedly set up headquarters there. Turns out (so the story goes) he did it because Princeton refused him admission.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

61. But he retook the building for the Patriot Army!

I bet Princeton regrets that rejection...and not because of the firing on Nassau Hall.

[truebluegreen]

62. Yep, I bet they do!

Especially since the Brits weren't there at the time...at least, that is my understanding.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

63. The Brits had control of the building...

I think it's safe to assume some were there. It happened during the Battle of Princeton.

[truebluegreen]

64. Phooey.

Another great story turns out to be apocryphal.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

65. LOL...

I feel certain Hamilton took great pleasure in watching that cannonball crash through!

[cbrer]

6. Fuck it! Lets develop rocket launchers

with homing capability! Available at Wal Mart! Think of the stock prices!

[valerief]

8. Well, at least the "glove slapping the face" part, anyway. nt

[JFN1]

9. Reminds me of the Simpsons

episode with the B-52's singing "Glove Slap."

[a la izquierda]

44. Lol

I love that episode.
"Glove slap, I don't take crap."

[Enrique]

57. "glove slap, shut your big yap"

[ashling]

11. Spitballs at 20 paces

[IDemo]

12. Maybe someone could develop an app for that

You'll see people stepping off twenty paces all over the place, cellphones at the ready.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

24. It could be something like Laser TAG. n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

13. Law abiding people almost never get into lethal fights.

Between 75% to 90% of murder victims have criminal records. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-08-31-criminal-target_N.htm

"The slaying of truly innocent victims is so unusual in Baltimore that the chief prosecutor says the city has become dangerously numb to the carnage. "If we don't put human faces on the victims, we will become desensitized," State Attorney Patricia Jessamy says."

Warring gang members don't pay attention to laws anyway. They are the ones who are so quick to reach for a gun over trivial affairs of honor. Their criminal lives depend upon being seen as tough. If they are percieved as weak they will quickly slide to the bottom of the criminal pecking order and soon be dead.

[Fumesucker]

19. Sounds like "truly innocent" is the same thing as "legitimate rape"

Interesting that minorities tend to get arrested and convicted at far higher rates for the very same offenses that whites get away with.

For instance, whites and blacks have very similar levels of illegal drug use/abuse but blacks get arrested and convicted for that same amount of use at a much higher rate.

Two people, both of whom have smoked some pot, one has been arrested and convicted of it the other hasn't, both of them shot and killed, which one is "truly innocent"?

[GreenStormCloud]

22. Read the entire article.

I am not going to get into word games. Criminology is a well studied field, and in that field it is well known that most murder victims are themselves part of the criminal underworld.

My point is that it would make little difference is dueling were legalized or not.

[Fumesucker]

27. Come on, define "truly innocent" for us

What do *you* think it means?

You posted the term, have the guts to tell us what you think it means.

[GreenStormCloud]

35. Not my words. It was a summary sentence of the entire article.

That most murder victims themselves are involved in crime is well known to criminologists.

What do you make of this sentence from the article?
In Milwaukee, local leaders created the homicide commission after a spike in violence led to a 39% increase in murders in 2005. The group compiled statistics on victims' criminal histories for the first time and found that 77% of homicide victims in the past two years had an average of nearly 12 arrests.

Do you think law-abiding people would suddenly start fighting duels? Do you think gangbangers pay any attention to laws against dueling?

[Fumesucker]

37. Well I sure as hell didn't post the term first

Tell us what "truly innocent" means to you.

It sounds awfully like "legitimate rape" to me.

If duels are legal I see no reason "law abiding" people would avoid them other than the fact they are a rather final and possibly arbitrary means of conflict resolution.

[GreenStormCloud]

40. Even in the 18th, early 19th century most folks avoided them.

They were actually somewhat rare.

If challenged to a duel one did not have to accept.

And as noted, gang members duel, although not formally, even though it is illegal.

[Posteritatis]

46. Duelling was illegal in most of the world in the 18th and 19th centuries as well

France outlawed it in the 1620s, Britain never bothered to draw a formal legal distinction between duelling and straight murder, and most of the states passed prohibitions fairly early on.

People duelled anyway, just like - as you note - they still do today, but it was definitely rare. As far as conflict resolution methods go, though, they're as dramatic as it gets, which is probably why we assume it's a much bigger thing back then than it was.

[LanternWaste]

59. Where precisely, do you find the correlation between...

"It sounds awfully like "legitimate rape" to me..."

Where precisely, do you find the correlation (or the points of overlap) between "truly innocent" and "legitimate rape"?

[Bake]

15. Okay. You first.

Bake

[farminator3000]

16. you read my mind! i was gonna bring that up!

#13 sounds a little miffed that you would suggest such a thing!

[yamblaster200]

17. It is legal

they legalized dueling when they passed the "castle" laws stating that you don't have to retreat and can use deadly force when threatened anywhere. During a duel, both people have a gun....so both are legal to shoot the other person because both of their lives are in danger and neither have to walk away.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

25. That is a stretch of that law, isn't it? n/t

[Rex]

20. Or better yet, these people that blame video games.

Why not let virtual dueling decide the outcome or do we have to be savage animals that cannot accept an easy answer?

[beevul]

21. Banjos? N/T

[JFN1]

23. Now thats my kind of duel!

I'd go for that!

[Dash87]

26. (Smacks gauntlet) I challenge you to ze duel!

Except the duel would probably consist of firing assault rifles with 100 round magazines at each other. Sounds a bit overkill if you ask me, but what do I know?

[a geek named Bob]

30. Stay with the old school...

single shot pistols, swords, or daggers.
seconds meet two weeks before , to try and get all parties to just forget the whole thing, and continue to do so up to the duel's start.


Old School.

[Resonance_Chamber]

32. Cool they could correspond snail mail via the seconds explaining their grievances against each other

Naturally all duals would be at dawn.

[a geek named Bob]

33. Actually, the time and place were usually arranged via the seconds...

and the snail mail was done via private courier.

One's correspondence to one's opponent was judged on penmanship, writing style, and personalization. (Supposedly, a "form letter" challenge was a social faux pas...)

[Resonance_Chamber]

34. Hell it would be worth dueling with a teahadist just for the correspondence!

[a geek named Bob]

36. ummm...

do you LIKE reading letter written in a 4th grade style?

Remember, in duelling circles, you were known by the opponents you fought.

[Resonance_Chamber]

47. Just think of the comedy potential

teahidist dueling letters would go viral on the internet, I know I would share.

[a geek named Bob]

49. What the hell... Go whole hog

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&sa=N&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US fficial&tbm=isch&tbnid=CcW6VkDgxKk22M:&imgrefurl=http://blog.lib.umn.edu/cspg/electionacademy/2012/01/election_2012_welcome_to_anoth.php&docid=K_dXg2X82A3AhM&imgurl=&w=450&h=301&ei=sYTdUMP8NMfo0gG6h4HgAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=545&vpy=166&dur=8406&hovh=184&hovw=275&tx=149&ty=111&sig=101750165110097635745&page=1&tbnh=135&tbnw=209&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0,i:166&biw=1123&bih=528

"Two men enter... One man leaves."

[Resonance_Chamber]

50. Why turn dueling into a WWF like event?

The fun is in making the baggers have to follow all the formal rules of dueling!

[a geek named Bob]

60. So we keep it simple and close-knit?

I'm all for Steampunk-style events...

Mind you, some of the ruling get a tad "different," given the modern social systems.

With GLBT, Poly, and Pagan cultures, who acts the part of the priest? Who sees to the grieving widow? As a certain number of duels were fought over a mistress, what happens when you add the multi-person relationship in?

This ought to be fun!

[whathehell]

52. LOL!

The duel would be delayed due to difficulties in deciphering the Tea bagger's "written word".

[Resonance_Chamber]

31. I agree do we really want the people who would actually duel in the gene pool?

Dueling could be its own form of Darwinism.

[backscatter712]

39. The Republicans have insulted my honor, and I demand satisfaction! n/t

[a geek named Bob]

43. remember, Backscatter712, they get to pick the time, place, and weapons...

Personally, I'd rather fight one of them with swords.

Most Republicans are out of shape...

<wheeze> <wheeze> "Okay, let's call it a draw..."

[loyalkydem]

41. better yet lets make an actual duel monsters game and duel it out

[Are_grits_groceries]

54. Use lawn darts!

BTW dueling is illegal in SC. A state legislator was almost impeached because he challenged someone to a duel.
We are obviously on the cutting edge of law enforcement.

[Shadowlord]

66. I would suggest swords

Because with the sword you could have some degree of training mandated once a challenge was issued, and then it could be law that you must duel to the first blood, and any deaths resulting from a duel be viewed as a homicide. This would make people avoid killing each other, and the simple fact of the danger of the duel would have the main effect regardless, encouraging honesty and good manners at all times.