No 'Hastert Rule? Republicans caved, big time!

[bigtree]

In a republican-dominated House, Democrats forced a vote from Boehner and Cantor and carried the day with a majority of our party allowed to vote on and pass this major budget/tax bill. It's an amazing victory which was borne out of a dogged, united defiance from Democrats in both houses against the prevaricating and divided republicans.

Of all the victories out of this --among those, getting almost every Senator and 76 House republicans to vote for higher taxes on the wealthy -- The virtual defeat of the republican rule that no bill would be voted on without a majority of republican support crashed and burned.

On major economic policy, Democrats got their way in a republican-dominated House. That's just an amazing feat which should bode well for future showdowns w/the divided republicans.

[Odin2005]

1. GOP party discipline has collapsed with this vote.

[zaj]

2. Please...

This was entirely driven by the expiring tax cuts. That factor doesn't carry forward to future work. Even Grover Norquist acknowledges that this was a vote to "cut taxes" for the GOP. How many more future votes will take place against that sort of a political landscape?

[bigtree]

7. so Norquist gets to define this . . . as a win for republicans?

. . . and we're listening to and agreeing with Norquist now?

Anyone who can add 1+1 can see that the taxpayers he was protecting with his extortion-like tactics with republican legislators were hit hard by this agreement. He can spin it any way he likes; he remains a loser and doesn't deserve to put his self-serving/face-saving spin on this humiliating defeat for his rebelling following.

[A Simple Game]

17. If we had gone over the cliff, would the top 1% have been

better off or worse off? I'm thinking worse, but I'm not sure yet.

And I don't really care about income tax, the very rich don't make their money that way, how about the capital gains tax?

Without knowing more, I'm leaning toward agreeing with Norquist.

[bigtree]

18. the top capital gains rate was increased to 20 percent

CAPITAL GAINS/DIVIDENDS: Top rate increased to 20 percent (but not to 39.6 for dividends as proposed by the administration). Not a surprise that dividends didn’t increase to 39.6% given unpopular with many Democrats in the Senate as well as almost all Republicans. Still this increase to 20% raises over $56 billion over ten years from current 2012 tax policy – mostly from dividends. The top rate for dividends and capital gains starts at the $400k/$450k level. Note: this increase is in addition to the 3.8% add-on tax for capital gains and dividends included in the health bill. In addition, nothing done specifically on carried interest.

read: http://www.forbes.com/sites/deanzerbe/2013/01/01/fiscal-cliff-tax-deal-what-does-it-mean-for-small-business/



from Wonkbook: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/01/01/wonkbook-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-fiscal-cliff-deal/?print=1

Suzy Khimm’s summary of the fiscal cliff deal:

— Tax rates will permanently rise to Clinton-era levels for families with income above $450,000 and individuals above $400,000. All income below the threshold will permanently be taxed at Bush-era rates.

— The tax on capital gains and dividends will be permanently set at 20 percent for those with income above the $450,000/$400,000 threshold. It will remain at 15 percent for everyone else. (Clinton-era rates were 20 percent for capital gains and taxed dividends as ordinary income, with a top rate of 39.6 percent.)

— The estate tax will be set at 40 percent for those at the $450,000/$400,000 threshold, with a $5 million exemption. That threshold will be indexed to inflation, as a concession to Republicans and some Democrats in rural areas like Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mt.).

— The 2009 expansion of tax breaks for low-income Americans: the Earned Income Tax Credit, the Child Tax Credit, and the American Opportunity Tax Credit will be extended for five years.

— The Alternative Minimum Tax will be permanently patched to avoid raising taxes on the middle-class.

— Two limits on tax exemptions and deductions for higher-income Americans will be reimposed: Personal Exemption Phaseout (PEP) will be set at $250,000 and the itemized deduction limitation (Pease) kicks in at $300,000.

—The full package of temporary business tax breaks — benefiting everything from R&D and wind energy to race-car track owners — will be extended for another year.


. . . not including the president's promise to go after loopholes and deductions for further revenue.

[A Simple Game]

20. Thanks for the information. With the exception of dividends

not as bad as I had thought.

[TXDem72]

3. Not a victory

I'm sorry; I do not see any bill which is weighted 90% to 95% to tax cuts as a victory.

[TeamPooka]

6. Welcome to DU

[Pretzel_Warrior]

10. Lol. Whatever.

[W_HAMILTON]

4. This bill is the largest tax cut in US history.

That is why some Republicans supported it.

House Republicans wouldn't even vote for "Plan B" to allow income taxes to rise on incomes over $1,000,000...you think they would have jumped at the chance to vote for income taxes to rise on incomes over $400k?

[bigtree]

8. Taxes will rise for 77% of Americans under this bill

[W_HAMILTON]

9. Taxes are being cut by this bill.

Taxes rose as of midnight on January 1, 2013.

This bill reduces and/or eliminates most of those higher taxes.

It is the largest tax cut in US history.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. That was the point made by Norquist

In my mind it is making lemonade out of lemons. .

[W_HAMILTON]

15. And the sad part is, it's true.

Fact is, if this bill had not been passed, taxes would be higher -- much higher -- than they are now scheduled to be.

I guess it makes strange bedfellows: the president, most Democrats, most people around here, and Grover Norquist all in support favor of the same bill.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. What is significant is not Grover making lemonade

But the suspension of the Hastert rule. It's the first time it's not been used since Denny Hastert was speaker. Perhaps we are seeing the end of that shit.

I know, I know, too much inside baseball

Grover is making excuses since he knows his pledge will be worth nothing if it loses it's magical power.

[bigtree]

12. so you mean the changes in the estate tax

good luck with that tact

[W_HAMILTON]

13. I'm not sure what you mean.

As of January 1, 2013, the estate tax had reverted back to Clinton era levels: $1 million exemption, not tied to inflation, 55% tax rate.

Whenever the president signs into law this tax agreement, the estate tax will then be $5 million exemption, tied to inflation, 40%.

[samsingh]

5. kick

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Yup, I called it two hours ago

When they said they were voting on a clean bill

Way too much inside baseball I guess.

[bigtree]

19. not at all

. . . the fact that there is this sea change in the republican House in voting for this with a majority of Democrats is a good demonstration of both the vigor and confidence of this administration, and the utter chaos of the divided republicans. A lot of the criticisms from Democrats have wondered about the next round, and i think this bodes well for that. We have a very engaged administration with an apparent, long-game strategy that's looking remarkably upright and effective (especially in contrast to the way Obama's been characterized around here).