Did Obama say that Medicare is the biggest contributor to the deficit?

[Stinky The Clown]

Here is a link to CSpan's clip of his remarks earlier tonight, after the bill passed the House.

His Medicare comments start at about 3:05 or 3:10. I listened to it a few times. It is either a cleverly crafted verbal sleight of hand or he said it. I'm honestly not sure what he meant.

http://www.c-span.org/Events/Pres-Obama-on-39Fiscal-Cliff39-Legislation/10737436945-1/

[phleshdef]

1. It IS the biggest driver of our deficits!

God damn. This is the second time tonight someone has brought this up. He said it. And its 100% factually correct.

[PragmaticLiberal]

3. Exactly!

And it's very telling (at least to me) that he didn't mention SS.

[amandabeech]

6. SS is in better shape than Medicare.

I wish that he wouldn't mention either one or medicaid.

I'd love to hear him mention the defense budget, however.

[phleshdef]

9. He should mention all of the above.

We can't just ignore shit. Medicare does not get enough money paid into it to cover everything that it pays out. Its not some sort of ideological/philosophical debate. Its math and its true.

[HiPointDem]

49. Neither does defense. In fact, defense doesn't get anything except money from the federal

government. $707 Billion in 2011, v. $223 billion for medicare. 317% more than medicare.

and if we project increases in defense spending based on increases 2000-2010 into the future, it is the biggest driver of future deficits.

[Alameda]

53. A lot of what goes into the "Defense" budget actually does go into the domestic economy

........remember this thing we are now using was developed by the DOD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET

There is some incredible work being done on exoskeletons that is partially being funded by the DOD...http://www.eksobionics.com/about-us and many other things we don't know about.

I would prefer things like the exoskeletons would be developed purely for humanitarian reasons, but I'm just saying dollars spent on defense is not all bombs and bullets.

The DOD does a lot of R&D

[HiPointDem]

54. big deal, so does a lot of medical spending. Defense spending drives deficits.

[dkf]

11. After all this discussion how is it possible people still don't understand the basics?

I don't get it.

[GeorgeGist]

57. Don't get what?

Defense department spending dwarfs Medicare!

[Stinky The Clown]

12. God damn. Be careful.

BP and all . . . .

[AgingAmerican]

13. Here:

[dkf]

15. So are those deficits from Bush tax cuts going to morph into deficits from Obama tax cuts?

[phleshdef]

23. Thats the past drivers of the current debt as it stands today. Future deficit projections

....are an entirely different story. Medicare is expensive because people don't pay enough into it and healthcare itself is way too expensive.

[AgingAmerican]

48. And the tax cuts got us here

Why they don't go away is beyond me.

[bornskeptic]

58. They don't go away because unemployment is currently a far bigger problem than the deficit.

Letting all the taxcutsexpire would reduce the deficit and leave us with 9 or 10 percent unemployment before the end of the year.

[AgingAmerican]

64. Tax cuts do nothing to help employment

And unemployed people dont get them. You are pushing the long ago debunked GOP meme that Tax cuts = jobs.

[HiPointDem]

20. Hogwash. More than half of medicare costs are paid directly by beneficiaries.

1. Medicare payroll taxes
2. Beneficiary premiums
3. Taxation of social security benefits

Less than half the cost of medicare is paid via the general fund.

The biggest driver of deficit is military & related spending, period, full stop.

[phleshdef]

25. Wrong.

A chart from 2006 is completely irrelevant to the topic for one thing.

What the President is talking about is future deficit projections. We aren't talking about the cost today, we are talking about its eventual costs. The Congressional Budget Office projects that Medicare spending will rise to 6.7 percent of the gross domestic product, from 3.7 percent this year.

In total, health care spending's percentage of the GDP is expected to rise by five points. Social Security spending is projected to rise by only 1.2 percentage points, to 6.2 percent in 2037. All other federal spending is expected to shrink by two percentage points, to 9.6 percent.

If you don't like the numbers, take it up with the CBO.

[Igel]

35. When you look at a budget, the amounts are fungible.

If you spend $300 billion, that's $300 billion. You can claim it's the first $300 billion spent and covered by taxes or you can claim that it's entirely funded by borrowing. The point's specious when made that way. Note that DOD is around $700 billion. The deficit for 2013, using really rosey numbers, was $900 billion. With the new tax cuts, it's going to go up a few hundred billion. Erase the DOD, and you'd half the deficit. It would be only $200-300 billion or so higher than the peak deficit in the '00s.

The other way is to look at increases. If you had a budget was was in balance (or, say, only $200 billion in the red) and suddenly you have a budget 5 years later that's $1 000 billion in the red, you ask, "Gee, what increased? What drove the deficit higher?"

Military spending's increased a bit. Medicare/Medicaid's increased far more. It's driving the deficit to a greater extent than current military spending.

[HiPointDem]

38. weasel-language.

[TheProgressive]

29. Explain what 'biggest driver of our deficit' means....

The 2012 Medicare Trustee report shows where the Treasury contributed $223 Billion to Medicare.

The military budget is $705 B.

How can Medicare be the 'biggest driver of our deficits'?

I would say fear and greed is the biggest drivers of our deficit...

[HiPointDem]

43. +1

[phleshdef]

59. Try a dictionary.

But aside from that, you people keep talking about the deficit as it stands today and thats not the topic. The topic are future projections over the next few decades. Medicare is projected, and has for some time been projected, to take the lead. Take it up with the CBO if you don't like it.

[TheProgressive]

60. So,you have no idea - you just repeat what others say...

Ok....thanks for that...

[phleshdef]

62. LOL. Wow what a powerful argument!

Yes. I'm repeating what the CBO says, you know, the authority on these types of things.

You are clearly the one with no idea. I don't even think you know what the CBO is. You have no business participating in any argument if you can't get that much straight.

[littlemissmartypants]

2. The "aging population and the rising cost of health care"

I think were his words...?

[HiPointDem]

50. His words were:

"the aging population & the rising cost of health care make Medicare the biggest contributor to our deficit"

[Lone_Star_Dem]

4. Probably Part D.

With the rising cost of drugs and the lack of ablity to negotiate prices, that's costing us plenty. We need to be able to negotiate drug prices for both Medicare and our veterans.

Soaring cost of military drugs could hurt budget

Last year, the Pentagon spent more on pills, injections and vaccines than it did on Black Hawk helicopters, Abrams tanks, Hercules C-130 cargo planes and Patriot missiles — combined.

Some of the prescription drugs that have fueled the military’s skyrocketing pharmaceutical budget are the same ones that have medicated the civilian world over the past decade. Since 2002, the Department of Defense has spent more than $5 billion on Lipitor, Plavix, Advair, Nexium and Singulair.

More...

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/national-govt-politics/the-soaring-cost-of-military-drugs/nThwF/

[dkf]

14. And Part B-Doctors and outpatient care.

It's actually amazing how little our payroll tax covers...just hospitals and not even the Doctors in the hospitals.

[HiPointDem]

22. That is a falsehood. More than half of *all* medicare costs are paid by workers, through direct

payroll taxes, taxation of social security benefits, and beneficiary premiums.

[dkf]

26. The payroll tax is only for part A.

http://www.medicare.gov/what-medicare-covers/part-a/what-part-a-covers.html

In general, Part A covers:

Hospital care
Skilled nursing facility care
Nursing home care (as long as custodial care isn't the only care you need)
Hospice
Home health services

It doesn't cover these services which are part B:

Part B provides coverage for doctors services outside the hospital setting and other medical services that Part A doesn't cover. Additional services covered include:

Doctor visits received as an inpatient at a hospital or at a doctor's office, or as an outpatient at a hospital or other health care facility
Medically necessary services or supplies that are needed for the diagnosis or treatment of your medical condition and meet accepted standards of medical practice. (for example, laboratory tests, X-rays, physical therapy or rehabilitation services, etc.)
Ambulance services.
Some home health care.
Preventative services to prevent illness or detect it at an early stage, when treatment is most likely to work best. (for example, pap tests, flu shots, and colorectal cancer screenings)

http://www.medicare.com/medicare-coverage-basics/medicare-part-b.html

Part B doesn't have a payroll tax fund. Instead it has a fund which receives premiums and general fund monies.

[HiPointDem]

28. ...

[dkf]

46. I am specifically addressing the part that we have paid into all our working careers...

That only covers the hospital part A.

When you are using part B and D you really haven't been paying into it your whole life.

[HiPointDem]

51. Workers pay for close to 60% of ALL MEDICARE COSTS COMBINED.

[brush]

37. But Part B is paid for by recipients. It's cost is deducted from SS checks. nt

[dkf]

45. That covers 25% of the cost of part b. Mostly it comes from the general fund.

Part B is financed through general revenues (72%), beneficiary premiums (25%), and interest and other sources (3%). Beneficiaries with annual incomes over $85,000/individual or $170,000/couple pay a higher, income-related Part B premium reflecting a larger share of total Part B spending, ranging from 35% to 80%; the ACA froze the income thresholds through 2019, which is expected to increase the share of beneficiaries paying the higher Part B premium.

http://www.kff.org/medicare/upload/7305-07.pdf

[amandabeech]

19. It's a great article--worth the time from the local Austin, TX, rag.

The article explains the different military program.

Like Part D, the non-VA drug purchases could be negotiated lower, and it sounds like more vets could use mail order for their regular meds like most of us do. It would save beaucoup $$ and not change their level of care.

Also . . . plenty of money spent on viagra but no info on birth control.

[TreasonousBastard]

21. Dunno about active duty or Tricare, but...

the VA does negotiate drug prices and prefers generics when available. I've gotten "Hey, guess what..." notices that I'll be getting a different drug with no discussion with my doctors.

It also charges a copay to vets with over $11,000 or so income.

[quinnox]

5. yea, I just listened to it, those are exact words

strange that some duers are apparently denying he said this. It is right in the audio.

[phleshdef]

7. They shouldn't deny it. He said it. He has been saying it for years. And its 100% true.

[kaiserhog]

8. He has said this since he started running for President in 2007

[frazzled]

10. He did, because it's a fact

Health care costs in both the public and private sectors are growing faster than any other sector of the entire government. (See other threads, which have already been posted tonight.)

Everybody needs to get clear on this. Once you accept that medical costs are a problem, the question is how to contain them. The president's initial proposal in the grand bargain was to get the bargaining power to negotiate drug prices as one important and highly effective way to control these rising costs. It would help hugely. Of course, Republicans don't like that because they want big Pharma to makes lots of dough. So this will be the fight.

But the point to remember is: the fight is not about whether medicare costs are rising too much. That's a fact. The fight is about what to do about it. The president and Democrats want to do it in a way that does not cut benefits or otherwise cause seniors undue costs. The Republicans want to lay it all on the backs of the citizens.

[senseandsensibility]

16. Well, I certainly hope your second to the last sentence is true.

And not only that, I hope they do more than "want". I hope they draw a line in the sand.

[AgingAmerican]

18. Bush Policies are the biggest drivers of the deficits

[frazzled]

24. That is presuming nothing has or will have changed

The war in Iraq is now over and Afghanistan will be in another year, saving billions. Plus the Pentagon (since the time this chart was made) made significant budget cut proposals. More are to come for defense.
The Bush-era tax cuts, as of tonight, will reduce the deficit by $600 billion, and the "tax reform" changes (loopholes, corporate taxes) are coming in several months to generate more revenue. So this chart is already old.

It is undisputed that the fastest growing costs are in health care.

See this post from earlier:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2115004

[AgingAmerican]

47. Subtracting the wars

Would make the Bush tax cuts take up a larger percentage of the deficit, not smaller. Obama got rid of $600 billion in tax cuts, but kept $4 trillion. The tax cuts are the problem.

[Samantha]

30. That is the chart I have always used -- it draws a very clear picture, doesn't it?

This pain we have been feeling is all part of the Bush* legacy (as reported by The Congressional Budget Office).

Sam

[HiPointDem]

31. Defense spending is 19% of the combined federal budget. Medicare spending funded from general

revenues is 8% or less of the combined federal budget (the rest, another 8% or more is funded directly by workers via payroll tax, taxation on SS, and premiums).

Ergo, it's defense that's been driving the deficits to date, not Medicare. Because most of medicare is funded by dedicated taxes from workers, not from the income tax. The money being borrowed is borrowed to fund the military, mainly.

[exboyfil]

34. Asset (Wealth) tax to pay for defense?

Just like you pay more for Homeowner's Insurance if you have a more expensive house to insure, shouldn't you pay more taxes on your assets to protect them via the U.S. military.

[Hoyt]

56. You need to throw Medicaid in with Medicare, and include the impact of ACA.

[frazzled]

63. I believe it's not about the portion of the budget represented

but about the projected increases (or decreases, or flatness) of future costs.

[mucifer]

17. End of life care is crazy expensive for a lot of people. Lots of elderly die in ICUs

on lots of machines when there is no cure for the disease. Other countries with single payer systems don't allow that. But, I don't think any politician will tackle this successfully in our culture.

60 Minutes did an episode on it:
Every medical study ever conducted has concluded that 100 percent of all Americans will eventually die. This comes as no great surprise, but the amount of money being spent at the very end of people's lives probably will.

Last year, Medicare paid $55 billion just for doctor and hospital bills during the last two months of patients' lives. That's more than the budget for the Department of Homeland Security, or the Department of Education. And it has been estimated that 20 to 30 percent of these medical expenses may have had no meaningful impact. Most of the bills are paid for by the federal government with few or no questions asked.

Now you might think this would have been an obvious thing for Congress to address when it passed health care reform, but as we reported last November in the midst of the debate, what use to be a bipartisan issue has become a politically explosive one - a perfect example of the rising costs that threaten to bankrupt the country and how hard it is to rein them in.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-6747002.html

[exboyfil]

36. DEATH PANELS!!!!!!

You can't get an intelligent conversation in this area unfortunately.

[Samantha]

27. He said he is willing to make cuts in ways that do not cut benefits

I took it to mean the same thing he has been saying, cutting out waste, redundancy and making with deals with providers.

Sam

[HiPointDem]

32. you realize that these cuts for 'waste' and 'redundancy' have been ongoing, right? how much

'waste' do you think there is?

While our elected representatives wrangle over slicing entitlements, virtually no one seems to be paying attention to an eye-popping fact: Medicare reimbursements are no longer accelerating at a break neck-pace. The new numbers should be factored into any discussion about healthcare spending: From 2000 through 2009, Medicare’s outlays climbed by an average of 9.7 percent a year. By contrast, since the beginning of 2010, Medicare spending has been rising by less than 4 percent a year. On this, both Standard Poor’s Index Committee and the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) agree. (S&P tracks healthcare spending with the help of Milliman Inc., an independent actuarial and consulting firm.)

What explains the 18-month slow-down? No one is entirely certain. But at the end of July David Blitzer, the chairman of Standard &Poor’s Index Committee, told me: “I’m hesitant to say that this is a clear long-term trend. But it’s more than a blip on the screen."

Since then, I have talked to an analyst at the Congressional Budget Office who is involved in putting together numbers on Medicare payments for CBO’s Monthly Budget Review. He confirmed that they, too, have seen a dramatic slow-down in Medicare spending...

http://www.healthbeatblog.com/wp-content/typepad/6a00d8341d843653ef014e8a963c8a970d-pi

http://www.healthbeatblog.com/2011/08/medicare-spending-slows-sharply-few-seem-to-notice-part-1/

[jeff47]

39. There's tons of waste

For example, Medicare is prohibited by law from negotiating drug prices.

Ya think not paying retail prices on everyone under Medicare might save a little money?

[HiPointDem]

40. I'm all for that. I doubt it will ever happen; things are the way they are to ASSIST pharma in

raking off superprofits.

If it does I'll eat my hat.

Providers & patients will be cut before pharmacorps rentier income will be.

[jeff47]

42. We'll see.

One of the big lessons from this past election is money does not necessarily equal victory. Shafting the elderly isn't going to win even with large contributions from pharma.

[HiPointDem]

44. yes, indeed, we'll see.

[exboyfil]

41. That is the place to start in the new year

My opinion has always been that the feds should never spend more for a drug than the Canadians spend for a drug (their price list should be brought into negotiations). That would have been a nice thing to have pursued during this negotiation, but it still can be addressed.

Does someone have a list of the biggest spend items for federal drugs?

I have two brother-in-laws in drug research for companies (one a chemist and the other a biochemist). They are doing valuable work developing drugs that will extend life and quality of life. In any negotiation it should be recognized that this ongoing effort employs many U.S. citizens in high tech jobs.

[Samantha]

61. Yes, I do realize that and I should have included fraud

I think Medicare Part D should be revamped. I think the government should be allowed to negotiate for lower drug costs. That would mean repealing the law Bush* put into place preventing it, but that should have never been passed to begin with. I have heard that the VA is allowed to negotiate lower drug prices, but I have not take the time to check that out.

[exboyfil]

33. Medicaid Long Term Care

is also a huge driver for budget growth. It is kind of stupid to say one thing contributes to the deficit more than something else. Obviously you can define your class as all DoD spending and that would be the most expensive budget item.

The fact remains we need to take something like $700B/yr out of deficit spending - where is that money. You are not going to get it with the current tax increases in the deal passed today (what was it $100B/yr at the most?). I think you should have $200B/yr. in the defense budget.

[graham4anything]

52. We need the system France has...100% best system in the universe...but

you do realize when well, people pay a mite bit more in taxes and there is no SS

because when you pay that mite bit more in taxes, it gives you unlimited lifetime medical and doctor and drugs plus it also gives you retirement money

which is why so many people are fit and trim in France
because they are content and healthy

wellness

and everyone contributes

but of course, the greedy assholes in America would never think of this system, because for the short term it would cost them more than their cheap asses are paying now while they
eat one twinkie after another and put down wellness care and get more and more obese here and later on cost our system billions and billions from their greediness

except in NYC where people are getting healthier, and also where there are less guns and in 2012 had the least amount of homicides on record history.

all it takes is a little more taxes and a little wellness and change our system to Frances

then btw, fluck french fries or freedom fries-neither are good and should be abolished unless made with better ingredients.

Got milk? Well one shouldn't drink that either. Way too fattening.
change the ads

Got Water!(btw-and NY has the single best drinking tasting tap water, no bottled water needed in NYC)

Go Mets!