Last night I sat my teenage sons down and showed them a picture of this:

[trumad]

I then let them watch this video:

&bpctr=1357307965

I then had a long talk with the two of them (15 and 19) on what being a Man with dignity and courage is all about. I told them that a Man with dignity and courage would not succumb to peer pressure and allow the humiliating degradation of another human being to occur the way it occurred to that poor 16 year old girl.

We talked about how multiple people witnessed what happened to this young girl and failed to do anything about it. We discussed peer pressure as one of the reasons for the lack of witnesses in the case.

I told them that a real Man with dignity and courage wouldn't give two shits about peer pressure and would care only for the human being that was carted around for a rape toy.

I made it clear to them that those who step forward to try and stop it or report it are the real hero's and those who do not will have to carry that shame with them the rest of their lives.

I've had these type of talks with my kids before but never with the visual's shown above.

This resonated with them in a powerful way and it is my hope that parents throughout this crazy Country of ours take the time and do the same.

I couldn't sleep last night---I literally rolled around in bed from midnight until 5am, thinking about the poor girl in the picture above, thinking about her parents, and thinking about the massive scars that will stay with her the rest of her life.

Justice---one can hope.

tru

[In_The_Wind]

1. Hopefully more parents will have that same talk.

I'm sorry for your sleepless night.

[TheMadMonk]

91. The parents who NEED to do this are a huge part of the problem.

They're the ones who's little boy (or girl) can do no wrong.
They're the ones who are amongst the first to shift blame to the victim.
They're the ones who wash bloody clothes and swear on a stack of Bibles that the whole family was home watching TV.
They're the ones who punnish for getting caught/embarrassing them.

[In_The_Wind]

104. I agree.

[Melinda]

2. Thank you.

You are a fine example of manhood and a good - no, make that excellent, father. Your sons are blessed to have you for a dad.

[freshwest]

120. +1,000... My sentiments, too. Thanks, Trumad.

[Locrian]

3. been thinking of doing the same

with my 15 yr old. How did they react? That age, they tend to get indignant and that THEY would never do anything like that. I try to explain that it's going to take a lot of courage to go against their peers and that they WILL have to think about this BEFORE this ever happens so they can react w/o being paralyzed at the time.

[trumad]

5. Mine said they wouldn't do it as well.

Right out of the gate they said it.

But I wanted to drive home the point that keeping quiet is far worse than not. Also--- I wanted them to think about the victim and what her life has become because of this.

[marions ghost]

49. The education of boys by other men

about what is morally wrong goes a long way to stopping this.

Dad

[MynameisBlarney]

36. Her ex bf and his friends

Planned this out and set her up.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

70. You highlight another character asset that parents and other mentors must teach...

Learning to manage disappointment and heartache with courage. Courage balanced with wisdon and compassion.


Qualities that we all need to practice, really. For a lifetime.

[MynameisBlarney]

72. Yupper

Can't really argue that logic.

[progressoid]

4. That picture makes me ill.

I can't imagine what she and her family are going through.

[4Q2u2]

6. Language is Very Powerful

You seem to grasp the right nature of the word Man/Men. People always ask why I am so hard on my boys, and expect a lot from them. I respond to them that we raise men in my family and not BOYS. We have let the true nature of that word leave our discussion and have it perverted. You may be asked to go alone into bad situations, either physical, mental, or legal situations that someone needs your help or doing the right thing needs to be done. It is your responsibility as a human being to stand up and do what needs to be done, that is what is missing today. Now before I am castigated for being Chauvinistic, I am raising my daughter to be a strong, smart, independent woman who should always do what is right.

I feel for this poor girl, to be treated in such a shabby manner, to have her looked at like an object to be broken. Woman, or people in general, while not being an ideal situation, should be safe and protected if they get into situations that they find themselves over their head. Another word we are missing the true meaning of Friendship.

[yardwork]

16. she didn't drink too much. she was given a date rape drug and kidnapped.

The attack on her was planned.

[4Q2u2]

17. Even worse

I would be out of my mind if that was my girl. I think I would take a Bulldozer to the house to start. I hope you do not think for one minute that intoxication in my mind gives a person liberties, I was stating just the opposite.

[TahitiNut]

24. Tell 'em it's a LONELY role.

It ain't like a movie, with an audience applauding and background music highlighting courage. If, in the rare case that ANYONE gives vocal support, it'll be in private. Most often, you discover that 'friends' take cover instead of your 'six.' Whistleblowers and boat-rockers are some of the loneliest people in our country. It's then that one discovers that "virtue is its own reward" ... because there won't be any other. Also because the expectation of a reward disqualifies it from being a virtue.

"Do The Right Thing" is a recipe for a lonesome task. When one actually has a friend or partner supporting such a choice, they are friends indeed! If one is lucky enough to have a spouse that provides such support, one is blessed indeed.

[AAO]

52. Any boy that stood up may be persecuted by other boys

But he would likely have a lot of new potential girlfriends. That would be his revenge.

[TahitiNut]

163. Sadly, that's not been my experience.

The hidden blessing is, however, that the moral and ethical quality of anyone who does offer moral support is far higher. They're exceedingly rare birds, however ... usually opting for keeping their heads down. (and mouths shut)

[marions ghost]

53. Sorry to have to agree with your comment--

--the behavior that is called "moral" or "ethical" is in short supply and often is a lonely fight. Look at our political and business leaders for their role in helping to create this situation. Business schools need to teach it--but they don't (and nobody takes it seriously). Ethics begins at home. Teach it to kids in a conscious way, but not implying that parents EXPECT them to be bad. It is one of the most important gifts a parent can give a child. It will lead to adult behaviors that are not fraught with confusion and guilt. Knowing what is right, beyond any religious doctrine, is a blessing. Good mental health depends on it.

(Just to say ditto & sharing your soapbox, mg)

[Colindy]

169. correct

It is becoming increasingly difficult to see people that will stand up for what is right (especially in HS's and the like). There is such a pressure to fit in and not be an outcast that it hinders people from saying anything for fear of being labeled a "snitch". I would like to see some bit of education that differentiates between morally standing up for what is right and turning in petty things just to make oneself feel better or as a way of retribution. There is too much blur between these lines, I think. I guess for the most part, I just wish parents would teach their kids better. The whole "kids will be kids" argument, to me, is a big pile of BS in my book. If I ever have kids (and with stuff like this going on, the only way that I will even remotely have kids is to date someone with kids already), and they are caught bullying, they will get punished. My biggest fear in that arena is that because of my past and what I've been thru, I may go overboard and that's just as bad, if not worse.

[marions ghost]

170. Welcome to DU Colindy

Not teaching kids what is morally right is a big disservice to them, I agree. Later on they are confused about what it is and make the wrong choices and waste a lot of time working it out, if they ever do. These days people disagree on what is right and wrong. I think we all really know, but it is not reinforced in this culture which seems to say, "whatever you can get away with is OK." We who see the down side of this attitude should stick together.
Actually you might be a good parent

[BlancheSplanchnik]

80. right you are. n/t

[Locrian]

81. exactly

AND it's harder to react correctly when things happen that shock you. People freeze up, run away etc. It's hard to get that across that it's NOT like a movie.

"Do The Right Thing" comes from support - a lot of it BEFORE it happens so you know that you're 'going in to battle' when you encounter it, but that it has to be done.

[seabeyond]

25. to want to raise strong, healthy, balanced boys with character... how would you suggest that as

chauvinist? i would suggest that is parenting for our kids. i too talk about societal definition of manhood and masculinity, and what the real definition of masculinity truly is. as with our girls, our boys are being conditioned in these roles in a totally unhealthy manner. but the best, is the example the father gives to his sons.

[eShirl]

7. As someone who was once a teenage girl, I can't thank you enough!

I hope many parents follow your example.

[trumad]

8. I have an 18 yeard old Daughter.

I can't imagine how I would react if this happened to her.

[SidDithers]

9. That's good parenting, trumad...

not some bullshit list of smartphone rules.



Sid

[Chorophyll]

10. What you've done is a very good thing.

Remember just a few weeks back, when DU was embroiled in controversy over whether or not young men ought to be taught what rape is and how not to do it?

And yet I bet no one will object to your post. It's just common sense, and as a woman, I appreciate it.

[loyalkydem]

11. I'd rec this a thousand times if I could

[Ilsa]

12. You are an awesome parent.

Thank you for making the world a better place.

[smirkymonkey]

147. +1000, Thank you for making the world a better place for girls and women.

You are a great dad!

[lunatica]

13. As a mother of a boy (and brought up a nephew too )I basically did the same thing

I'm a very strong believer that teenagers of both sexes need to be taught what is right and wrong in any kind of behavior. The topics of the rights and wrongs of sex and rape and bullying behavior are not verboten in my household. It also isn't just about how they should treat others. It was about protecting them too. I was a victim of a pedophile when I was six years old. It's my obligation to try to keep that from happening to anyone else.

[trumad]

14. My boys were disgusted with this story.

I mean---it's one of the most disgusting stories I've ever read.

[eShirl]

15. Thank you, too, Lunatica!

Thank you to all the parents having discussions about this with their kids.

[Dustlawyer]

18. I had the "drugs" talk with all of mine and my oldest daughter told me years later that the only

Thing that kept her from joining some of her friends in doing drugs a couple of times was what I told her. I 1st explained my experimentation while in college, but the part that resonated with her was when I told her of how I slowly lost a couple of friends who drifted into the drug culture and kept going. I told her to give these casual pot smokers 1 year. If they still had the same friends and still just smoked pot, go ahead, but I told her many would be doing other drugs and all their friends would be too. All they would talk about would be drugs, getting money for drugs, and the good times they had on drugs. They would be doing bad in school or dropping out. I told her they would try real hard to get her to do it too b/c they cannot stand to have a straight person around to remind them that they should not be doing drugs. She witnessed this happen during that next year.
Peer pressure is a powerful thing, but in the video you at least see that not all of those boys gave into this sick behavior!
I think pot should be legal and regulated like alcohol. It might make it harder for underage kids to get, just like it is harder to get beer than weed for a minor here in Tx.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

74. another great parenting example. Especially good how you explained "signposts"

to watch for.

Really clear and accurate.

Im not a parent but even as a mentor, you set a great example.

[abelenkpe]

19. Thank you!

You are a good parent. I couldn't really sleep thinking about this either. I had a friend in college who was the victim of a gang rape at a fraternity. And have known friends who have woken up in strange men's homes after being given what we assume was that date rape drug. There was never any justice for them. Why it is so prevalent is disturbing.
My kids are only 5 and 7 so I don't know how to talk to them about it. Gotta figure out an age appropriate way to teach them to do the right thing...
I'm glad parents are talking to their kids about this. Hope this girl gets justice and those monsters aren't allowed to remain free where they can find more victims.

[japple]

142. Just keep the lines of communication open with your kids. The teaching them how will

come along the way. Thank god for good parents like you who are setting their sights on the future.

[seabeyond]

20. i am right there with you trumad. i did the same with my 15 and 17 yr old. one i am sending to

college. to live in athletic dorms with the privilege football players. he is in a different, individual sport with entitlement and privilege. but, we discussed how he would be amongst the privilege. i also told them 1 in 3 girls are raped in college. neither boys believed me. i had to type it in the computer. military and college. military 1 in 3. college 1 in 4, raped.

they were floored. i tell them this, i have discussed this with them. but, to see it sinks in. informed, they have time to process. to better understand and know how to handle. so they are surprised, trying to process, while it is happening. they are prepared.

thank you trumad. what you are doing is soooo important.

but a thank you from me does not matter. cause really, we are talking about the health of your boys. and this is what a parent does.

[Nye Bevan]

21. Probably an excellent idea to show this to teenage daughters too (nt)

[Whisp]

23. why?

[Nye Bevan]

38. For one thing, to warn about the dangers of "date rape" drugs,

to emphasize the importance of never leaving your drink unattended.

[Whisp]

43. I don't think I'd show my daughter that vid.

I wouldn't want to make her sick with fear, because that's what those pics did for me. Fear for all our daughters and kids that there are souless demons like that wandering about.

I think just a word of warning would do better. If something like that happened I wouldn't want her to think it was Her Fault because she drank a drink she shouldn't have, or was in the wrong place at the wrong time, or said something or ditched a boyfriend and now he's mad, and all the rest of the 'reasons' rape happens. We can't all be vigilant all the time no matter how careful we are. Shit always happens.

It's those lizard animals who are at fault.

But each to their own.

[marions ghost]

59. OK but

wouldn't it be better for your daughter to fully understand the dangers, given the statistics? Maybe yours is the type of smart girl who doesn't really need the visuals to get it, but I worry about those who are more naive, more trusting...

Just putting out a thought, not a challenge....

Having studied self defense for women, I have met a lot who were raped. The understood maxim in that group is that young girls and women being more aware is all good.

[Whisp]

65. my gut reaction is 'scare porn' can be more harmful than good.

especially for young women who aren't yet aware what a freaking horrible lot of some sub humans roam this earth. I'm afraid if a young mind saw that they would retreat from life in fear.

[marions ghost]

76. You know your own child best

but speaking theoretically, we are living in times where it may be necessary to clearly define the dangers to young women. How not to be a victim is important for both sexes.

Knowledge is Power they say. You could counter the negative by convincing her that there are a LOT of good guys who abhor this behavior (and Dads like the OP who teach their sons it is wrong). Your strength against it could transfer to her. And she would know that if it DID happen, she would have an ally in you.

In my first year of college, the first day, one of my room-mates was sobbing in her bed --she had just been raped by a student she did not know well. She never reported it. I was a nerd and this was the first time I really had any inkling that smart girls might get raped too. It was a shock.

[TexasBushwhacker]

112. I'm with you

Whether they just drink too much or they're given a drug that knocks them out, they need to know that these guys are out there. They need to protect themselves and their friends.

[Zookeeper]

153. I agree. There's certainly nothing wrong with teaching teens

to question the motives of people who offer them booze, drugs, rides or invitations to parties. Most people are fine, but it's good to stop and think, and don't worry about "hurt feelings'' by saying, ''No.''

[Nye Bevan]

78. I don't think anyone would suggest that it's the woman's fault when she is slipped a drug and raped.

And everyone needs to warn their daughters about this kind of thing, whether through a verbal warning (as you suggest) or by showing them the video.

[yardwork]

121. It's not possible to never leave a drink unattended. She was at the home of friends.

This girl was at the home of friends, people she trusted. She was not at a bar with strangers. She was with a close group of intimate friends. None of us expects to be drugged when we are the homes of close friends.

This is a case of domestic violence. The girl's former boyfriend was furious with her for breaking up with him. He planned revenge on her with the help of his friends. The most dangerous time in an abusive relationship is when the victim tries to leave. This girl left and her ex-boyfriend exacted a horrible revenge on her.

[Nye Bevan]

123. Friends and relatives are usually more dangerous than strangers.

More likely to murder, more likely to kidnap and more likely to rape.

[yardwork]

124. True, but nobody EXPECTS to be drugged and raped by their own best friends!

Be realistic. Do you make sure that your drink is never left unattended? When you are at the homes of friends and relatives do you constantly remain vigilante to be certain that your brother or his wife don't drug and rape you?

Come on.

[Nye Bevan]

133. Surely you're not disagreeing that women should be warned about the possibility of "date rape" drugs

being dropped in their drinks?

Of course nobody "expects" this to happen. But is it not something that women should be warned about?

[yardwork]

135. I'm responding to your exact words:

to emphasize the importance of never leaving your drink unattended.

which you wrote in post #38, to which I directly responded:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2129474

I state again, in direct response to your words, it is not always possible to "never leave your drink unattended," and people very rarely think about that when they are at the homes of close friends, as this girl was.

[Nye Bevan]

140. Perhaps I should have said "if your drink leaves your sight, don't drink it,

get yourself another one". But I do see your point that people are not always going to follow all safety rules 100% of the time.

[yardwork]

141. When we're in the houses of close friends, we don't watch our drinks. We just don't.

It's unrealistic of a society to expect everybody to be on 24/7 guard against being drugged, kidnapped, and raped. It is more efficient for societies to discourage people from drugging, kidnapping, and raping one another. And most of the time, this works. Most people don't drug and rape other people. Most people, when they witness something horrible, take steps to help the victim.

I was in college once and I did and saw a whole lot of stupid things. And 99% of the time I saw other students helping one another out. I saw drunk girls carried back to their rooms by boys who knew it was a good idea to get the girls out of harm's way. That's what happens most of the time.

Something went terribly wrong in Steubenville, Ohio that night, and continues to go terribly wrong.

[seabeyond]

129. it is said so casually all the girls and women are supposed to do to protect themselves. do you

watch your drink, regardless of where you are, concerned you will be drugged? do you look at walls and vents in bathrooms, hotel rooms and dressing rooms to make sure you are not being filmed? do you adopt a certain pose when walking out to a dark parking lot at 7 in the evening with one key between your fingers so you can jab a rapist in the eye, lmfao, when walking to your car? do you wait for the next elevator to not be alone with a strange man in the early hours? do you take a buddy with you when drinking ANYWHERE so you will not be raped? do you carry a book with you so in public you hope you will not be hassled cause some man thinks he has the right to harass you whether you want it or not?

i could go on and on and on.

why is it so hard for you and others to acknowledge that men create a life for women that we HAVE to live to be safe, because of their entitlement to us?

[Nye Bevan]

134. Men need to be taught that "no" means "no" and that drunkeness does not equal consent.

Women need to be taught not to place themselves at risk unnecessarily, and to be on their guard against "date rape" drugs.

Surely none of this is in any way controversial.

[seabeyond]

136. i think where the offensiveness comes is the acceptance of all a woman has to do and be

and is expected to do and be, to avoid rape and abuse. when a man says it, and does not allow it to even go into his conscientiousness that women have to contort into pretzels to avoid threat is irritating.

my sons and i were talking about this yesterday. and thru something we were talking about , i said, i walk into a hotel, bathroom or dressing room, i look for cameras. they were like, wtf??? really. wow.

i tell them i walk to my car at night, rape is a consideration. wow, son says.

they at least GET that my life is effected with what man has created that they do not experience.

and i wonder about the easiness we state a girl should watch her drink not even at a party or bar, with expectation.

that leaves a fault on her part.

and yes, i teach my nieces along with my nephews.

[Nye Bevan]

139. I really hate that I have to warn my daughters about this kind of thing.

And I am sorry that you found my post to be offensive.

[yardwork]

137. Shouldn't men also be taught to be on guard against date rape drugs?

The purpose of a date rape drug is to make the person unconscious or nearly unconscious, so that they can be raped. This happens to men as well as women. A 200 pound man is just as unconscious and unable to defend himself from kidnapping and rape as a 100 pound girl.

[Nye Bevan]

138. Agreed. (nt)

[whopis01]

149. You make an excellent point. One which applies to a great many of the problems in society today.

Telling a woman to be careful where she places her drink and acting like that is a solution to the problem is unbelievably stupid. Acting like that is just the way the world works and women need to be more careful is just not acceptable.

Of course women have to be careful who they are around and where they place their drink and how much they have to drink - but the reason they have to do that is because society is so screwed up. Whatever happened to trying to get to the root of the problem and fix it at its source.

This thinking goes beyond the issue of violence towards women - it infiltrates many aspects of society today. The other day there was a gun-related discussion and someone posted a picture of an armed school teacher in Israel with her kids. The discussion around it was whether or not the kids in that situation were being harmed. It was kids, living in a situation where their teacher needed a firearm to keep them safe and people actually claimed that there was no harm being done there.

There are those who just keep pushing and pushing the idea that we need to accept the level of violence that exists in society. I understand that for today it is necessary for a woman to be careful of what happens to her drink - but don't tell me that is just the way things are and nothing can be done about it. The ones who propagate that thought are the ones who want society to be that way.

[Nye Bevan]

150. "Of course women have to be careful who they are around and where they place their drink"

Fully agree.

I wish I didn't have to tell my daughters this stuff. I wish that people who commit crimes like this did not exist. But unfortunately that is the world we live in.

[Skelly]

69. Girls can be brutal to girls

It is hard to believe only boys were at those parties and witness to the events. One has to also question what the girlfriend of one of the participants knew as she convinced the victim to go out with one of the rapists. From all accounts, this was a planned event with the victim set up from the beginning as a revenge for dumping the one boy.

[yardwork]

122. I've been wondering about the role of girls in this as well.

It sounds like the sixteen year old victim was at the home of a friend, surrounded by girlfriends, hours before she was drugged, kidnapped, and raped. Where were all those girlfriends?

Did the victim become separated from the girls she was with earlier in the evening? If so, under what circumstances? These are the kinds of questions that should have been asked by investigators, but apparently there was no investigation. The whole thing was swept under the rug in order to protect the eligibility of the football team's starting lineup.

[seabeyond]

125. it appears more than she was drugged. and it was a couple friends but one of the boys, matt

kept asking her out, acting like he liked her. i think at first she was weary. but, after a couple weeks of him pretending she said she would meet him at this house. i do not think it was many friends. it was there that he drugged her. and i have heard on a couple other sites that they feel other girls were drugged. there was a girl, out, wearing a different pair of shorts, a brighter blue. picture just taken of lower belly down, sprawled.

[Zookeeper]

154. Apparently, the victim was invited by the girlfriend of a player who

was a friend of the victim's exBF. She was drugged immediately, then ended up in a car with 3 or 4 guys who raped her, then took her to several houses and parties.

I haven't heard what her girlfriends were doing, but there are tweets and posting from girls defending the jock rapists and slandering the victim.

[Whisp]

22. thanks, trumad. We have to teach our kids not to be animals!

Teach them that contrary to all the bad information out there, that this kind of shit is not okay to do. It's not only a parent's duty to do this, but Everyone! Stand up when you hear others speak the unspeakables. A lot of people are afraid to do so and that has to stop.

(I can't watch that vid, the stills were enough to make me sick.)

[Doctor_J]

26. that's pretty revolting. Who's the star of the video?

Has that degenerate been ID'd?

[trumad]

28. Yes---most have been ID'd.

[seabeyond]

30. he got an academic scholarship to ohio state university. osu is up in arms

Last edited Fri Jan 4, 2013, 04:18 PM - Edit history (1)

too many are saying kick his ass to the curb. the young women are saying, what about their safety of this rapist. why is he allowed at the university.

this will probably take him out of that university.

[LiberalFighter]

44. If the university thinks it is safe for the women on campus with his presence.

Then every board member should be removed from their position. And the President of the university should be fired.

Considering the time of year it would be a good time to do a campaign convincing those considering enrolling in that university to cancel their application.

edit

If a fraternity was involved in any way with the rape they should lose their charter on the campus.

[seabeyond]

47. same state as penn i hear. their FB is full of calling out administration. they say getting

inundated with fax, email, text and calls to kick him out and they sent it to admissions. i do not this the kid will survive. say a tweet from anon last night saying he had info they had kick him out of the school, but not confirmed.

[Jenoch]

108. Ohio University?

He was wearing an Ohio State t-shirt.

[seabeyond]

117. thanks. i will put the correction. it is state university. nt

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

27. You, my friend, are an awesome parent

I'm traveling this week for work, but I plan to sit down this evening with my fifteen-year-old son and have the same conversation.

[trumad]

31. I'm OK as a parent...

So far, so good.

I really do enjoy having conversations like this with my kids---although I hate the F'ing subject matter.

I enjoy it because I get an early glimpse of how I hope they turn out as adults.

They're a hell of a lot smarter than we give them credit for, and if you talk to them like mature adults, its amazing what they say.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

32. Parenting is the last word in "On The Job Training"

Danged kids ought to come with a manual. At least a call center in India.

[Auggie]

29. K&R

[Remmah2]

33. We know a young lady who that happened to.

I've sat down w/my son on several occasions and discussed this issue.

I've sat down w/my daughter on several occasions and discussed this issue.

I've sat down w/my daughter's boyfriend and discussed this issue.

I'm known as the dad from hell.

[MynameisBlarney]

34. That is hardcore

And must have been very difficult. I don't have any kids, so can only try to imagine how parents deal with stuff like this.

And seems to me like you're doing a great job in the parent dept.
Keep up the good work.

[seabeyond]

39. you know what the real problem is? from a very young age, too young, with social media,

and all the garbage on tv, we are having to talk to our kids about a zillion things before we want, for their own safety and health that we never had to deal with or think about when we were kids.

i keep so much shit out of my house. i have literally had people tell me, your kids are cocooned from the real world. that is pure bullshit. this nation is so rampant with porn, and media that teaches these ugly roles for genders, and instances like this, and our political people that tell women put an aspirin between the knees, some girls rape easy, and vaginal probes just to cause a woman pain for making a legal medical choice.

there is no way kids are sheltered today. it cannot be done. just to provide info so they will have the tools to address all these issues.

getting a naked picture of a teenage girl and splashing it across the net to humiliate and ridicule her to the point she commits suicide.

what kid should have to learn about this shit.

and then we wonder why they are desensitized and able to commit these atrocities, as they get confirmation from others on the net that it is their right to rape, cause it is only, ... boys will be boys, and as evo psych says just the nature of boys.

[MynameisBlarney]

45. All that you just listed

are right up there in the top percentile for reasons I never had kids.
I can barely manage to take care of myself, I can't imagine looking after a kid or two. Making sure they don't grow up to be stupid assholes and keep them healthy and well fed...

I have mad respect for parents that can raise good kids. Because I know I'd be a terrible parent.

[seabeyond]

50. i have mad respect for the person that doesnt buckle under society

and have a kid just cause, even though the think it is not a good idea. lol

honestly? all this stuff started AFTER i got married and had kids. mid 90's. i have been running to catch up every since.

[MynameisBlarney]

56. I knew from a fairly early age

that being a dad was not in the cards for me.
I guess its a bit selfish of me, but the thought of being responsible for a child is one that makes visions of all the things I enjoy doing as an adult flash before my eyes.
So, I said to hell with that.

I like my life (such as it is) just fiiiine. And bringin a youngin into this world at this point would be unfair to the kid, and make my life miserable.

[seabeyond]

61. i do not see it as selfish, but wise. nt

[MynameisBlarney]

71. HA!

You need to talk to my dad then.
lol

[lunatica]

57. My kid will be 42 this year

So I was way ahead of the curve when he was 15 when I talked to him about these issues. Aids was spreading like the plague then too. So I also made sure he had plenty of knowledge about that too. Talk about living scared all the time! Parenting is not for the feint of heart!

[seabeyond]

63. i remember son was around 8 and i was having to try to explain abortion in an age appropriate manner

there was a bumpersticker he read... dont murder babies.

was a no shit for him. lol. but, i had to tell him there was more to the story and give him a tad... tell him when older, we would address it.

but, living in this part of the country it is everywhere. i grew up in calif. probably did not even know about abortion until teens.

[marions ghost]

60. what you said

[Jenoch]

111. I have told my kids and all of their friends

that before they text, tweet, or Facebook (I hate that it has become a verb) they better think about what their parents and grandparents would think if they saw the material. I have reminded them that everything they text, tweet, or put on facebook is never private and will be there for all eternity somewhere in the ether. So far I am uncertain how much they do or do not believe me. For the rest of their lives, the names of the boys that are involved in this incident will come up in an internet search (or whatever the internet eventually morphs into, probably some organic 'computer' integrated into the base of the human brainstem. I don't get that cynical with the kids or I would have zero credibility).

[seabeyond]

118. very good. me, too. and insistences as they come up of peoples lives ruined

because of a moment in stupid. we have so many learning experiences for our kids regularly. they tend to not believe, but, they have had reality teach them well.

[Zookeeper]

156. I started telling my kids that a few years ago when FB was new.

They thought I was just being old, silly and paranoid. They and their friends posted like FB was ''Dear Diary.''

There has been a huge change of awareness around privacy for them now.

[redqueen]

35. K&R

[Bake]

37. Thanks trumad

I have a son and two daughters.

The picture and the video are beyond disgusting. Beyond words. I hope these jocks go to jail for a long, long time, and any of the rest of them sitting around laughing about it who were not actually involved, well, they need something too.

CNN reported that the incident began with a big party at the home of the football coach, who provided alcohol for the party. He needs to not only lose his job but spend some time in jail.

Beyond that, I am speechless.

Bake

[MynameisBlarney]

46. There's a few other people that are alleged to be involved

in the conspiracy to cover this up.
This looks to go fairly high up in the local govt.

[Arugula Latte]

64. If this had happened even 10 or 15 years ago, it would have been buried under the rug forever.

The Internet has changed everything.

[raccoon]

161. +1000. nt

[Jamastiene]

40. Thank you for doing that.

I wish more people would do just that. Without proper guidance from parents, teens can get lost very easily. It helps when parents take the time to talk to them.

[onlyadream]

41. The callousness is unreal

after reading about the gang rape in India, I shook my head, disgusted with India. However, women all over the world (including the US) are deemed inferior and objectified (possessions). Maybe it's kept quiet, and isn't said out loud, but with a few drinks, out it comes. Disgusting. Horrible. How did it get this way? I honestly think the burquas of the Middle East began by women hiding themselves for protection.

[lastlib]

42. John Wayne once gave a definition of the word "brave":

He said, "When you stand up for what's right, you sometimes show more bravery than any heavyweight fighter in the ring. It's the coward who 'just goes along'--and the world has enough cowards. 'Brave'--it's a word you're going to need every day of your life."

I try to share that with every young person I come in contact with.

[Heidi]

48. trumad, thank you.

As a woman and as the godmother/aunt of two young women whom whom I love so much, I thank you for speaking with your sons openly about rape and leaving no doubt in their minds that real men don't rape.

[PeaceNikki]

51. Thanks. You are not alone in being completely haunted by this. Especially on the tails of the case

in India.

It's horrifying

[Brickbat]

54. Excellent. I've been considering the same with my almost-14-year-old.

[gollygee]

55. I'm sickened by this whole thing

I have two daughters. My older one, a tween, wonders why I won't leave her alone at the roller skating rink. I don't want to have to warn her about stuff like this at her young age, but I apparently can't leave her alone around a bunch of teenage boys unless I give her a warning first. I'm not even sure exactly how to talk to her about this without scaring her away from having anything to do with any boys or men she meets, so I'm putting off the talk until I can think of something.

[Jenoch]

113. It's a balancing act.

What I have done is to tell the girls that they have to stick together and NEVER go off alone with a boy, even a boy they trust. (We don't know what other boys may be around). At the young teen years the girls should never be alone. Heck, in the mid-teen years they should not be alone with anybody their father has not yet introduced himself to, if you know what I mean. I tell the young men that they need to behave as if their mother and their date's father (me) are watching every move they make. (I don't really care if I scare them, the boys I mean, I want them to have some fear).

[LynneSin]

58. It's official - you're not Mitt Romney

I just remembered how he hazed during his youth and then the stories came out about his kids doing the same. Glad that idiot didn't get elected president.

[DonRedwood]

62. The only good that will come from all of this is because of parents like you

I hate what happened to those girls (and I think there are going to be many more of them stepping forward). The only good that can come from all of this is if parents like you use it to teach.

[mike_c]

66. I was thinking about this all night too....

No teenage boys here, but this story has haunted me since I first became aware of it.

[Taverner]

67. Awesome! BMing this for when I give my son that talk

[marions ghost]

68. I'll get dissed for saying this but

I believe that if a young guy can do this, he can also kill (or allow someone else to kill for him).

He can also shaft others freely and without guilt in the business world, and he can be a politician who uses the term "legitimate" rape. There needs to be strong punishment for it.

So call me radical, but this behavior is linked to the ability to kill, or to condone killing.

[polly7]

77. I agree with you.

It takes a total lack of empathy and the capacity to enjoy cruelty ... imo, the makings of every deliberate killer. Sick little freaks. I hope they and their enablers pay big time for the lives they've damaged forever.

[Blue_Roses]

82. yep, it's sociopathic

wouldn't take much for him to escalate.

[Doctor_J]

84. murder doesn't seem like a huge leap from here

Probably true. I am not a psychologist or criminologist, but murder doesn't seem like a huge leap from here. Seems like potential serial killers to me, but they might instead end up as Republican politicians. Or both.

[raouldukelives]

88. That whole group peer pressure thing among young men can be highly motivating.

And will push them to areas beyond the absurdly cruel. You will see the same scenarios play out in the military and in the business world. Only difference there is that those industries have large PR tactics already in place to keep them from looking as bad as these ignorant assholes and legions of paid apologists ready to rally for them at a moments notice.

[seabeyond]

92. and if a parent addresses this and give the boys tools to handle this, and do their fuckin job

and teach them about the conditioning roles of gender, and allow the boys (as well as girls) time to process and define who they are as people then NO....

the whole peer pressure thing does not mean shit.

no excuses.

[raouldukelives]

95. Yep, as always, It's all about education. Thinking is underrated. nt

[barbtries]

73. how did they respond?

i have a 20-year-old son myself and he spends a lot of time on the reddit page. i read yesterday that they have whole sections devoted to rape. i will be discussing this with him tonight.

[GaYellowDawg]

75. You and I aren't too fond of each other but

I respect you a great deal for that, and hope I do as well by any sons of mine.

[Blue_Roses]

79. I couldn't get past the picture

so I didn't see the video, but I can imagine. It makes me literally sick to my stomach. My first thought was,"what the hell is wrong with these scumbags", and secondly, "where is the justice?"

As the mother of a 13 and a 15 year-old, I want them to be aware of these things,but I am so outraged that I don't think I could express my thoughts as well as you did with your sons. Kudos and thank-you for bringing awareness to such a horrific crime.

Now, when I get my bearings, I'm headed to the living room to have a discussion with my two daughters as well.

[chatcat11]

83. You're a good man.

I hope the punks who did this go to jail for a long time.

[CrispyQ]

85. Good job.

I think it's vital to make kids think about how they would react in certain situations before they are deep in a situation! Your boys also now know that you will support them for doing the right thing.

Here's a heartening video to share with them to kind of balance the horror of the other one. These guys are role models!

[seabeyond]

87. my favorite. my boys have watched. everyone should listen to these MEN. nt

[Liberal_in_LA]

86. k&r

[rivegauche]

89. You are awesome.

I really wish every parent on earth could read this post. Bravo to you, you're a bright spot of hope during hideous times like this.

[benld74]

90. Every teenager needs to KNOW what occurred and how to stop it if they are witness,,,

four years ago our oldest, around christmas, went to her 'new' boyfriends house. We asked the usual questions before she left, spoke with oe of the parents by phone before hand, and she assured us the parents were at home. Turns out, they left to go out for the night. Turns out the parent thought the get together was the NEXT night.

I had a queasy feeling all night long I could not shake. Turns out one of her girl friends, who has other issues, turned up at the get together completely drunk. 3 boys took her into a downstairs bathroom and attempted sex acts on her. Our oldest and two other girls were beating on the door screaming at the tops of their lungs.

When she got home I was awakened by her crying and telling us what occurred. That she 'recorded' the voices on her phone, when this happened. That the creeps were now calling her cell phone(stupid of them) ad actually threatening her NOT to tell anyone. WHat the creeps didnt know was she let the call go to voice mail, BEFORE she answered. So their threats were taped.

Charges were pressed, police station visits were made by ALL parties, phone records were confiscated. BUT, in the end, there was NO proof, and unfortunately the case never went forward. Why, I'm not sure. BUT it opened our already OPEN eyes eveb wider, including our oldest's.

The girl with the issues, still has them, but knows her girlfriends tried to help. The boys? never heard from or seen again. Our oldest? smarter for what happened, with same guy now for over a year. And you know what? I STILL don't trust him, and I cut him NO SLACK about ANYTHING. He KNOWS it too.

[seabeyond]

93. chillign chilling chilling all the way thru that story.

thank you for telling us.

[Moonwalk]

94. While we're at it, be sure to support Drinksavvy--working to keep girls safe from rape drugs....

&feature=player_embedded

Here is their website: http://www.indiegogo.com/DrinkSavvy

[judesedit]

96. Don't worry. They'll take care of them in prison. What goes around, comes around. Law of balance.

I feel bad for his parents, too. They are probably in total shock watching the monster they brought into this world. Hopefully, the lessons he is about to learn will change him forever if he is to reside in this country and on this planet.

[judesedit]

97. Can a lswyer possibly be able to wiggle these kids out of this? I pray not. They need to be punished

[Jenoch]

114. You know what?

The whole 'they'll take care of them in prison' thing isn't so true anymore. I have a cousin who is a probation officer. The prisons are filled with the same kind of thugs with no conscience that apparently were involved in this incident, both men and women.

[Politicub]

98. Someone down thread referred to the video as scare porn

but there is no scare porn to it, and I believe saying things like that is an invitation for people to avert thier eyes.

If people don't viscerally feel the horror it will be hard to impossible to understand what happened in the abstract.

Witness what is happening with the Newtown massacre.

Sadly Newtown seems to be slipping from the public consciousness along with pleas for reasonable gun control.

And maybe one reason for that is people don't really have the ability to conceptualize the carnage. We have sanitized Hollywood images firmly planted in our brains which look nothing like reality. If images of the reality of the outright slaughter of the innocents were made public, maybe it would be harder to erase the images from memory and the cause of gun control wouldn't whither on the vine.

I know I will never forget the images in this video. It has been seared into my brain, and there is no way I can unsee it or forget about it no matter how hard I try.

[ismnotwasm]

99. Good job Dad

This is how we change the world.

Justice and awareness.

[tblue37]

100. At age 17 my son (who is now 33) was watching a video of the

movie The Crow, which has a rape scene he didn't know was in there. He was so upset when that scene began that he turned the video off and didn't want to watch the rest of the movie.

I was very proud that his revulsion was so immediate, so visceral, and that it didn't matter to him that it was "just a movie." He couldn't tolerate the idea of rape, even in a movie.

[seabeyond]

119. husband did the same when he was young with clock w orange, or something. today rape is in so many

movies and more for entertainment and sexual titillation. it has become disgusting.

[REP]

101. If there were more parents like you ...

Even if you hadn't shown them the video, I have the feeling your sons already know what the right thing to do in that situation is, and are unlikely to do nothing if they ever encounter it, because of how they are being raised.

[rbixby]

102. You know, it would have only taken one person to either step in

or call 911 to report this, it really sickens me that no one did anything about it at the time.

[DLevine]

103. Thanks, Trumad. We need more great Dads like you. nt

[Jenoch]

105. Thank you for your post

and for raising your sons to become honorable men.

I don't know how I missed this story until last night, but I too had a sleepless night. I am so angry about this incident I don't know what to do. I don't have sons, but I have told my daughters to be careful of predators.

I hope this story is talked about in high schools and college classes in some sort of meaningful way.

I wish now that I would not have watched that video, but I suppose for the young girl's sake it is good that I did.

Michael Nodianos, the young man wearing the Ohio State t-shirt in thr video needs some serious psychological help. Nobody in their right mind can have such little compassion for another human. It sounds like there some young men off camera who knew how bad the behavior was that night. I hope they have stepped forward as witnesses. The local people should be able to identify them by their voices.

[arthritisR_US]

106. Good job! If this isn't a teachable moment and

and a time to reinforce values and humanity when is? I wish more parents felt the ugliness of this situation as you have and acted upon it in the way you have. From a mother of a daughter I thank you Sir!

[Rex]

107. The great evil in life is indifference

toward each other. Thank you for being a responsible parent trumad!

[joelbny]

132. indifference

As horrifying as this incident is, what makes me sick is how many other countless times something similar has occurred with no exposure.

If 1 out of 3 women are raped, who is it doing all this raping? What is wrong with humanity? I read in the NY Times a couple years back an article about biologists questioning whether over tens of thousands of years of human history those doing the raping and pillaging would have more offspring and pass on a genetic propensity to sexual aggression.

Only consolation is that civilization lives on and leaves rape (and other violent crime) a very poor evolutionary strategy, with the perps being punished and ostracized and *not* passing on their genes, and more civilized sexual instincts winning out in humanity's genetic makeup.

But clearly there has to be a major change in our culture. Victims must speak up with no feeling of shame or fear, communities and law enforcement need to show outrage, and the perpetrators and accessories need to be prosecuted...

[Fire Walk With Me]

109. K&R!

[PATXgirl]

110. I just told my daughter about all of it this morning. She was horrified.

I think it is equally important to show our daughters so they will be aware that even at a party of so-called "friends" or classmates, crap like this can happen.

[RetroGamer1971]

115. Scream it from the rooftops!!!! This IS NOT OKAY!

I am a male survivor of sexual assault. The people who helped cover this up need to go to jail as well. They knew full what was going on, and chose to let this rape victim hang, instead of getting their kids the help they need. There are no words to express how it feels to go to authority figures for help, and have them turn their backs on you. It is horrible. You feel like your trust in other human beings crumbles. You fell like there is a double standard, against you. In this case, there need to be consequences for ALL of the participants. We need to rise up in this country and let young men know THIS IS NEVER OK! Boys will be boys my ass!

[SunSeeker]

116. Bookmarked! I plan to have the same talk with my son.

But he is only 9 now, so it will have to wait until he is a teenager. Right now, I'm emphasizing the "golden rule"--treat others as you would have them treat you.

[Lex]

143. . . . and speaking up when something's wrong, even if your friends

do not speak up. That's a hard one to impress upon kids to do because of the weight of peer pressure. Sometimes one person speaking up will cause the others to as well.

[SunSeeker]

145. Yup-and that is required by the golden rule and his school rules.

His elementary school has a "zero tolerance" policy on bullying. Kids are required to immediately report bullying to a teacher. And it works--there is virtually no bullying at his school.

[limpyhobbler]

126. k/r very good.

[BainsBane]

127. That must have been a difficult conversation to initiate

and I commend you for your courage and responsibility as a parent.

[trumad]

144. It was...

I have never been as disturbed by a story like this one. Literally kept me up all night thinking about it.

[BainsBane]

146. I can imagine

And I'm glad to know you are raising such responsible young men. That is no easy feat.

[redstatebluegirl]

128. The problem is

many people teach their kids to be afraid of the "boogey man" and he is usually Black or Hispanic, they RARELY warn them of the boy who lives next door and plays football, homecoming king, student council president...

Trumad, you are a gentleman and a great parent....

[Skittles]

130. thank you trumad

[elfin]

131. You are a great Dad. I can't believe these animals are still alive, let alone not

grievously wounded in their nether delicates. I hope such woundings have been incurred by Steubenville Ninjas.

Horrific, yet a sad depiction of our supposed "advanced" culture.

[Heathen57]

148. All I had to say to my son

was "What if that was your little sister or your girlfriend?" Although I never had a problem with him allowing something like that to go on. He has a natural sense of justice and helping those who need it.

[MuseRider]

151. Thank you trumad

and all the other parents who teach their children right and wrong. It is not hard, there are so many examples of both good and bad sides around. If you start early enough by the time they are old enough to see anything like what happened here they will know what to do and do it.

If we can all just keep that up and try to spread it around maybe there will be some hope for our children to grow up to relish life, everyone's life and try to enhance them not take them down.

I did not sleep well either trumad. I simply cannot understand this at all.

[condoleeza]

152. Well, I got way more involved in this today

Have just been ignoring it for the last week, as I knew it would be a trigger for me and it was.

Just hard to imagine living there in a town ruled by testosterone from the highest levels down. Wow. Is this girl ever going to get justice? Is the idiot kid in the video going to lose his scholarship and get kicked out of Ohio State? Is every fricking person in this town on the take and are they truly doing what Anonymous says?

Where are tornadoes when you need them?

[NEG]

155. Thank you

For doing exactly what more parents need to be doing.

[Starry Messenger]

157. Not a parent, but I teach high school students.

I was up all night after watching that video too. Thank you for not just talking with your kids, but also for posting here about it.

The haunting image of the girl being carried like a piece of meat--thinking about her, her parents who are probably killing themselves inside wondering what more they could have done to prevent this horrible terror attack on their child.

The sickening defensiveness of people in the Steubensville community who are crying about the reputations of some of their star players. I don't know how anyone can see the picture of Jane Doe being carried like that and being declared "dead", a non-person, and not stay up all night.

I am 42 years old and I thank my lucky stars each day that I've lived as a woman in this country without getting raped. Yet. How sad is that that women have to always be wondering if our person is going to be snatched away with something in our drink, abused, perhaps killed?

It's sickening.

[Catch2.2]

158. K&R!

Every father should talk about this with their sons. It's sad that rape is so common & widespread. Such a heinous crime that needs more publicity so that it can be combated. From here to India. Good job Trumad!

[Generic Other]

159. This is the reason sex education is needed

Kids need honest information. Those boys acted like rape was not a serious crime. I'm not sure they thought it was. Teens should be forced to confront the behavior expressed in that video. I could hear some of the boys questioning the actions to their credit. If they had had conversations with responsible adults: teachers, dads, police officers about appropriate behavior, maybe this whole thing could have been avoided. Someone would have said no.

I firmly believe that when the parents and the schools neglect their responsibility to teach kids about sexuality,when abstinence education is all the information they receive, the kids will search for their own information or misinformation. They are not going to read textbooks. They will find porn and think the behaviors they see depicted represent normal sexual behavior. Adults know that porn is fantasy. How would young kids know one way or another? They imitate what they see: degrading behavior towards women, gang bangs, the full range of fetish behaviors that adults who watch those films know they would be arrested for trying in real life. Are we surprised the kids are confused?

I applaud any parent who is willing to open this discussion with his sons.

[DonCoquixote]

160. If only more would follow your example

This needs to be discussed.

[raccoon]

162. Kudos to you! Wish more parents would do this. nt

[Why Syzygy]

164. It was much more than peer pressure.

This disgusting display of violence unearthed a county wide scandal of epic proportions. Everyone in a position of power is corrupt. The state's attorney general has now taken over the case.

http://localleaks.blogs.ru/2013/01/01/steubenvillefiles/

Despite all this, it looked as though a town rife with corruption, cronyism, illegal gambling and fixated upon their star high school football team (a major economic revenue engine) were prepared to orchestrate a major cover-up in order to sweep the entire affair under the rug. As this disclosure will document, this cover-up was perpetrated by people in the high school administration, local government and law enforcement.



The best article about a culture that tolerates rape...

https://prospect.org/article/purity-culture-rape-culture

“Rape culture,” as young feminists now call this, isn’t limited to India. It lives anywhere that has a “traditional” vision of women’s sexuality. A culture in which women are expected to remain virgins until marriage is a rape culture. In that vision, women’s bodies are for use primarily for procreation or male pleasure. They must be kept pure. While cultural conservatives would disagree, this attitude gives men license to patrol—in some cases with violence—women's hopes for controlling their lives and bodies.

[Honeycombe8]

165. You are a wonderful father. A picture is worth a thousand words. As a woman....

my heart just broke for that young girl. She could've been my daughter. Or it could've been me, since I certainly got drunk & went to parties when I was young (which I had no business doing, but kids do things they shouldn't). Would my older brother have participated in such a thing? He was pretty wild, but had a lot of sisters, and got along with us. I can't imagine him doing that. I hope not.

OTOH, I understand why a guy wouldn't confront his friends TOO strongly. But there are things the other guys who did seem concerned about the girl could've done.

He could've left & called law enforcement anonymously. He could've handled it humorously.....picked up the girl & left with her, saying "she's mine!" and laughing it off. A certain kind of guy could get away with that. I knew guys who could've pulled that off. Or if he was powerful enough in the click, he could've just said "this is over, guys," the others would've followed. But it seems that the guy on the video was the leader of the pack.

[Why Syzygy]

166. My earlier comment .

I failed to thank you for your efforts to educate your boys. It will make a difference. Too bad most parents don't have the emotional intelligence to do likewise.

[radicalliberal]

167. I just came across this OP of yours, trumad.

Your manly ("manly" in the true sense of the word) example of what a father should be is truly inspiring. If most fathers in this country were like you and had your principles and compassion, this country would be far better off than it is today. I will admit I've been moved to tears.

I'm the father of two beautiful and highly intelligent young women, the younger of whom is a university senior. They are not sex toys! They are valuable human beings who are far better than I was at their age! I'm sick to death with the way society treats rape victims (men as well as women, incidentally). I've seen how the sexual abuse of young people destroys their lives. I've felt enraged ever since I learned about this rotten scandal and the despicable excuses for humanity who have disgraced their town. I have absolutely no respect for any of their defenders and enablers. They make me want to puke. I couldn't bear to watch the video. Reading about it was enough. If I were the girl's father, I would be suffering a nervous breakdown.

[trumad]

168. I've had a few Bourbons tonight...

Bourbon is a funny liquor.

On one hand it makes me very mellow. On the other hand it makes me want to kick some ass.

If I were the Father of that young girl, I would beat those son of a bitches down severely.

That's how I feel tonight.

It's the most disgusting thing I've ever read.

[War Horse]

171. You're a good dad /nt