What kind of woman/girl sits and giggles while a man/boy is recounting a rape? Revised.

[Skidmore]

Last edited Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:39 PM - Edit history (1)

I just watched part of that Steubenville video on the Video forum and had to turn it off after a bit. The kid in that film was disgustingly proud of having raped an unconscious girl, but what made made me feel equally nauseous was the giggling girl who possibly was filming it. At first I thought it could have been one of the guys but after listing a bit more, it was definitely a girl tittering away at another girl being raped.



NOTE: Several people have pointed out that they hear a boy giggling in this video. My gut reaction to this video was that the giggler sounded like a girl and I reported my response to it. Now if the facts bear out that there were only males present at the taping of this horrible event, then I am wrong and was reacting without full knowledge. I am revolted by this whole event including its coverup and any statement by anyone stating otherwise should be retracted.

[bettyellen]

1. Are you sure? i thought i heard a guy talking.

[Sheldon Cooper]

2. If this was your social circle, would you want to stand up to them?

Look at what they did to the girl who broke up with one of them.

[undeterred]

3. So now its time to bash a "possible girl"?

[truth2power]

8. Could you please clarify your statement? I'm not sure what you're getting at...

I, too, thought I heard a girl in the background, as I posted below.

If that was the case, then how is it "bashing" to be sickened by it?

[redqueen]

13. Source? nt

[deutsey]

25. I think it's originally from Local Links

After being convinced, with some amount of coaxing – to attend the parties that night with the “Rape Crew” by by Mark Cole’s girlfriend Santoro, Jane Doe was picked up at a volley ball team party she was attending in the early evening of August 11th and transported in a vehicle with Richmond, Mays and Cole in it.

http://localleaks.blogs.ru/

[seabeyond]

30. i also heard they thought there was more than the one girl drugged.

this would make more sense of it. mays pretending to want to date her for a couple weeks. the GF convinces her and they are both drugged

they ahd a picture of another girls pretty well passed out. we saw it in her clothes, not her face.

[tridim]

4. I think it was a younger boy filming and giggling.

What bothered me was the complete lack of a reaction by the rapist as the off camera people told him that he was going to jail for what he did.

[seabeyond]

27. that is what i heard. a boy gigglin' and also when a girl and another boy walked in the one

filming told matt to stop. and that was the end of the video.

[PeaceNikki]

5. A student by the name of Evan Westlake (also a member of the “Rape Crew”) taped this video

in the basement of fellow “Rape Crew” member Jake Howarth’s house, which was one of multiple locations where rape of the victim took place. Fellow students Shawn McGee, Niko Murray and Anthony Craig also appear in the video in the background with both Murray and McGee not happy with the topic and pissed at Mays. It should also be noted that what appears to be a hunting rifle with a scope is clearly visible on the floor beside Nodianos during his drunken rant.

http://slightlyopinionated.com/evan-westlake/

[truth2power]

6. Thanks for posting. I watched the video and could swear I heard a girl giggling...

I kept trying to listen more carefully, but I was shocked and appalled that there might be a girl in that room.

I don't know if that was the case, but I picked up on it, the same as you did.

[redqueen]

7. Wow.

Really?

[Skidmore]

11. Yes, really.

Go listen to the video in the Video & Multimedia forum.

[redqueen]

12. Go read post 5. nt

[2naSalit]

10. If it was a female giggling

I can only imagine that it's the kind that grows up to be Ann Coulter or Michelle Bachman or someone of that ilk... to answer the question asked by the OP.

[KitSileya]

15. Or, you know, a girl who has seen what they do to girls who break up with them

or gainsay them in any way, and who is protecting herself from suffering the same fate!

[2naSalit]

22. Could be that too.

Peer pressure at that stage in life sucks. What we have become as a society sucks because this is what it's come to.

[Drahthaardogs]

14. The kid in the video was not involved.

He is an idiot and a sick little bastard, but he was not involved in the assaults. He was already questioned and released. No charges are pending against him. He likely did not even witness the events. The blogger used his video to ignite the public, which due to his repugnant behavior worked quite well, but he is not accused of rape, kidnapping, or sexual assault.

[mzteris]

26. accomplice

to the crime and the coverup. He should be charged as well.

They should all be charged. Except the victim. Anyone with knowledge who did nothing to stop or report or prosecute should be charged.

[yardwork]

43. You have a lot more trust in the Steubenville authorities than I do.

I'm more persuaded by the kid's own admissions on video than I am by the fact that he hasn't been charged.

[Iggo]

16. It took a while...

...but they finally found a girl to blame.

Football team gang-rapes an unconscious sixteen year old girl, whole goddam town covers it up, but this poster thinks she hears one little girl giggling about it after the fact and now it's: See? Girls are just as bad.

Congratulations on the False Equivalence Post Of The Day!

[KitSileya]

18. I wish I could rec your post. NT

[Skidmore]

23. Bullshit.

I am not they. I am relaying to the forum what I heard. To me, this sounded like a girl. I never said anything beyond it sounded like a girl giggling in the background on this video and I was repulsed by it. And "this guy" you refer to (me) is a female. I received an explanation above for who was in the room. End of story, but I was not blaming the girl who was raped for the actions of the town or the men who committed this crime.

[Cerridwen]

39. Then you'll be updating your OP

to note that you were incorrect and that you heard something that wasn't, right?

Start with the subject line which is what most people read whether or not they read the thread.

If, and only if, you do that, will I be convinced you were genuine.

[Skidmore]

41. No, I won't

because I'm still not convinced that it wasn't a girl. It still sounds like a girl to me. People can read down the thread and listen to the video and make up their own minds. And, I repeat, I did not blame the victim for her rape or absolve the perpetrators or townspeople from their roles in coverup. As to whether or not you think I'm genuine, that is your issue not mine.

[Cerridwen]

42. I didn't think so. Thank you for confirming.

I prefer to know whether or not a DUer is genuine. It helps to me understand how honest they are when they post and whether their posts can be trusted.

Thanks again.

[redqueen]

33. There are no girls on that recording, but facts be damned.

Now we've found a friend who convinced her to go to a party, surely she was in on the gang rape plan!

[Iggo]

36. Never woulda happened without her!

Evil, evil raper girl!

[KitSileya]

17. She's a potential victim, is what she is.

Most likely, she knows what these guys do to girls, and she is, even if unconsciously, protecting herself. In addition, she's also probably a brain-washing victim, as her family, her teachers, her whole community has clearly told her that these guys are the best, are desirable, are the future, and being connected to them ups her own reputation. If she is the girlfriend of one of them, she's probably received kudos for "getting a good guy," she has added social cachet, in short, she's been told that her worth is intrinsically connected to their opinion of her.

Of course, she may also be a horrible person on par with many of these guys, but since she's not in a privileged position, the onus is on them, not her.

[vaberella]

20. No. No, no, no. You don't have to laugh along.

Stop this please. I would not be laughing along. There are also 2 other kids in the film who were not laughing and actually talking about finding out if the girl is okay.

[KitSileya]

29. I refuse to judge this girl.

The boys, yes, they're in a privileged position, but the girl - she knows what they've done to girls exactly like her. Exactly like her. By her social circle, she's been trained to behave a certain way, with the threat of rape as the whip, just like an abused person, and would you blame the abuser or the abused?

[seabeyond]

32. what girl are we blaming. not that i do not see that girls knew about this at three parties

but... i am not seeing anything that a girl was a "part" of this or giggling in a video. i heard a boy giggling.

[KitSileya]

46. I must admit that I didn't have the stomach to watch the entire video

Therefore, I took the OP's claim at face value. That there was a girl present, and that she giggled at things that were said.

If that were the case, I refuse to blame such a girl, or condemn her. In that environment, any girl is a hostage with Stockholm syndrome at best. When the football team can rape girls with impunity, no girl is safe, no girl can be blamed for her actions. If a girl were to speak out, or try to stop these maggots, that would be laudable indeed, but to blame any girl for not stopping them? That would be victim blaming. (Just to be clear, I'm not accusing you, seabeyond, of victim blaming here, just trying to nuance the discussion a bit, as it seems that most on this thread are willing to blame a girl just as much as they blame the worm laughing about anally raping a drugged girl.)

[seabeyond]

50. true all that. and i would not defend if happened. i would place along with boys that knew wrong

but did not process as they should.

but, there is no facts that there was a girl there. his is a guess. i KNOW that the only one i heard giggling, the one filming was a boy.

and at the end of the video, a girl and boy walked in and the person filming told matt to stop. and that was the end of the video. seemed like when a girl walked into the room, the boys stopped.

[KitSileya]

54. Let me see if I understand you correctly.

You're saying that if a girl was there and she giggled in response, you would not defend her? And that you would blame her just as much as the guys laughing?

[vaberella]

19. There's no way...I could have sworn it was a boy. n/t

[slackmaster]

21. A shallow, immature one. Probably drunk and certainly not very bright.

[Zoeisright]

28. A very, very stupid girl/woman.

[Avalux]

31. I just watched the video after reading your post. It's definitely a boy filming and giggling.

It's a room full of drunk boys, the one filming is completely enthralled with his star, a disgusting piece of shit with a very sick mind.

[Enrique]

34. it's striking how he kept the camera on the one guy

i was annoyed because I wanted to see the other people in the room, but i guess he wasn't filming it for me. Regardless, the camera operator who I agree with you was a male, obviously had eyes only for "Nodi".

[Harmony Blue]

35. The boy filmed this

but yes a woman was involved in luring the victim and her name is available now on the web for all to see.

[exboyfil]

37. She is also pretty high profile

being listed in several good news stories about her school activities. I wonder if life is going to change for her now. If she was involved in the plot or at the very least did not try to protect her friend, she deserves whatever public shaming (and criminal charges if there are any) coming her way.

[Sunlei]

38. This is the way drunk teenagers act most of the time in our society. Noticed a reasonable voice or 2

In a way I think the internet and social media is a blessing. Our society needs positive change. The exposure will change all these young people, hopefully for the better.

[Cerridwen]

40. I, and perhaps others, await your updated OP

with the corrected information.

[PeaceNikki]

44. Person. What kind of PERSON does that?

Despite the fact that there is some evidence it was not a girl/woman and no empirical evidence either way, why is it important to make a designation of "girl/woman"?

Why would ANYONE giggle in this circumstance? Is it more understandable and or excusable that a boy/man would?

[Skidmore]

49. True, Nikki.

This whole rape discussion from the last few days has triggered more than a few memories (not identical to the event) for me. Having been subjected to being raped over a period of years while there were those who knew what was happening to me and did nothing to help a child has left me churning inside.

[yardwork]

45. Where is the evidence of a girl being present in this article on the probable cause hearing?

A lot of boys are mentioned. No girls. Please read this article on the probable cause hearing that includes testimony from several eyewitnesses:

http://hsconnect.com/page/content.detail/id/578936/Teen-rape-case-moves-forward.html?nav=5010

[abelenkpe]

47. Can't really tell if it is a girl but let's face it girls witnessed

A passed out girl being dragged around to various parties as did many other boys. Anyone with information should come forward. All who don't, who witnessed this and don't come forward are accessories to a coverup and crime. A crime that looks as if it has happened before and with those kids still out there could happen again. Witnesses need to be encouraged to come forward whether they are male or female.

[Cerridwen]

48. Thank you, Skidmore, for the update. n/t

[PeaceNikki]

51. Again, OP, I ask: Is it more understandable and or excusable that a boy/man would?

Despite the fact that there is some evidence it was not a girl/woman and no empirical evidence either way, why is it important to make a designation of "girl/woman"?

Why would ANYONE giggle in this circumstance?

[Skidmore]

53. Nikki, I answered you above

concerning my immediate response to this video. I'm sorry it is not enough for you.

[haele]

56. Teens giggle inappropriately all the time -

Especially if they're nervous. The kidlet giggles when she's recounting an event or talking about a subject she's not sure was appropriate or doesn't quite know the meaning of as a way of downplaying the severity or or personal responsibility she should consider in what she is saying or doing. It's self-protecting to giggle - she thinks if she can giggle about the situation, it's not as bad as she suspects it might be.

I could very well see a young person who desperately wants to be cool, but is having a crisis of conscious between what they were taught as right and wrong and what they were involved with to be with the cool kids giggling because they don't yet have the social strength to just say "You guys are stupid and I'm stopping this right now." So they giggle and go along, because they don't know what to do and are afraid of the situation they've gotten themselves into. This confusion and fear also makes them more cruel to the victim, as they keep trying to make the situation less about their poor decisions and resulting responsibility they carry in their minds, and more about the victim being somehow less than human.
Because they were weak or fearful enough to go along with the herd that (for whatever reason) they chose to align themselves with with, they've got to live with the result of their actions or inaction for the rest of their lives.
Giggling while being engaged in something as horrific as what went on here is a sign of someone who is either a total sociopath or is caught in a cycle of fear and denial.
But even then - too bad for them; these boys (and possibly girls) involved in committing the crime of kidnap and rape really messed up in the choice they made to be there and need to take responsiblity for their actions. No matter what can be "blamed" or how "faulty their upbringing", unless they actually have a mental condition similar to retardation or a pathology, by the age of 13 they are old enough to conceptualize and understand responsibility for their actions(i.e., cause and effect), justice (which most all children learn by the age of four) and rights inherent with being an individual.

Haele

[d_r]

52. to me

It sounded like the kid filming was a boy who was high.

[Zorra]

55. There are some women who don't yet realize that they are fully equal to men.

These women, primarily because they were raised in a patriarchal society/culture, cannot comprehend the idea that men are not superior to them and that they are not required to live in submissive obeisance to males.

It takes a really long time for cultures to eliminate dysfunctional cultural institutions.

Another way to look at this is as some women suffering from a form of culturally induced Stockholm Syndrome:

Stockholm syndrome can be seen as a form of traumatic bonding, which does not necessarily require a hostage scenario, but which describes "strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other."[4] One commonly used hypothesis to explain the effect of Stockholm syndrome is based on Freudian theory. It suggests that the bonding is the individual's response to trauma in becoming a victim. Identifying with the aggressor is one way that the ego defends itself. When a victim believes the same values as the aggressor, they no longer become a threat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

We've come a long way towards equality in the last hundred years, but again, it takes a really long time for cultures to eliminate long established dysfunctional cultural institutions such as patriarchy.

Here's a classic example ~ stand by your man, even if he's a total asshole ~

IMO, none of us, female/male/other, should ever be silent, or stand by offering feigned consent out of fear and submission, when evil is being perpetrated by bullies of any kind.

[KitSileya]

58. Not to mention, a girl in that situation has a completely different threat level than a boy.

That snake who's being filmed is openly condoning (or even guilty himself) raping girls. A girl listening to that is in a completely different situation than a boy, and that is what most here don't seem to understand. A boy objects to it, and they might freeze him out, or beat him, or even respect him more for standing his ground. A girl objects, and...

Thank you for the informative post.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. I too thought I heard girls in that video.

Sorry, I'm not watching it again to be sure. But I honestly believed there were girls present.